Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 4 hours ago, twa said: so you are saying the GOP didn't buy what the Dems were selling? Why would you even bother asking that? Do you not remember how this went down? Let me remind you. The GOP has been open about their strategy from before President Obama ever even took office, that they were not going to allow him to have a single accomplishment. It didn’t matter if it would help people or if it was a good policy for the country, they were going to do everything in their power to obstruct him and that’s exactly what happened. I’m also telling you that it went far beyond just not buying what he was selling. That specific policy decisions were made expressly to make the market more expensive or to make it less accessible. And of course, they then went on to show their asses by not having any kind of plan after endlessly yapping on and on and on about how they had something that was so much better. That didn’t stop them from trying to ramrod through a bill that was denounced by every professional health organization in the country because it was nothing more than a reward for corporate donors that would rip healthcare away from millions. Basically, the entire episode confirms the worst criticisms of the GOP and also of you for blindly supporting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Why would you even bother asking that? Do you not remember how this went down? Let me remind you. Did you forget who you're talking to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Did you forget who you're talking to? I thought maybe he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 insurance companies are cutting their reimbursements to hospitals and cutting the % of care they'll cover. i'm OK with the ACA's intent. it's not my desired solution, but I'm OK with what the idea is there. it has problems and they aren't being fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Busch1724 said: This is a statement you should provide some data for. In my previous research, this is not true. You made the claim, prove it. https://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-under-obama/ A starting point... Well, I'm not putting my information on here for you to see. And I don't really care how it's affected other people. I know what it's done to me. I pay the bills. Not going to put my friends business on the web either. But I know what they tell me, and I believe them. Even the uber left friends that I have. My assertions are based on that. We used to pay, in the last year of Bush, around $200 a month, with a $250ea deductible, for a good family plan. We now pay $1000 a month, with a $2000ea deductible. And our increases are now paying for our insurance, plus people who I don't know, or give a rats ass about. No, healthcare is not a right, IMO. So, for me, Obamacare has been a botched abortion. And my money is all I care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 And of course, the insurance companies are not to blame in any way at all for jacking up rates when presented with the opportunity to do so. As usual. the problem exists over HERE, and the time is spent yelling at something else over THERE. toes on the line. keep it moving. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Llevron said: Just wanna point out that you blame Democrats for electing Trump. And told over and over again that it's solely the fault of the GOP. Hypocrisy is funny that way. 40 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Why would you even bother asking that? Do you not remember how this went down? Let me remind you. The GOP has been open about their strategy from before President Obama ever even took office, that they were not going to allow him to have a single accomplishment. It didn’t matter if it would help people or if it was a good policy for the country, they were going to do everything in their power to obstruct him and that’s exactly what happened. I’m also telling you that it went far beyond just not buying what he was selling. That specific policy decisions were made expressly to make the market more expensive or to make it less accessible. And of course, they then went on to show their asses by not having any kind of plan after endlessly yapping on and on and on about how they had something that was so much better. That didn’t stop them from trying to ramrod through a bill that was denounced by every professional health organization in the country because it was nothing more than a reward for corporate donors that would rip healthcare away from millions. Basically, the entire episode confirms the worst criticisms of the GOP and also of you for blindly supporting them. The GOP did not WANT a Govt HC plan. From anyone. It's lazy to say they opposed it because they hated anything from Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bang said: And of course, the insurance companies are not to blame in any way at all for jacking up rates when presented with the opportunity to do so. As usual. the problem exists over HERE, and the time is spent yelling at something else over THERE. toes on the line. keep it moving. ~Bang Oh for sure the Ins Co's are to blame. Too bad Obama gave them such a sweetheart deal in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, Ax said: We used to pay, in the last year of Bush, around $200 a month, with a $250ea deductible, for a good family plan. We now pay $1000 a month, with a $2000ea deductible. How much did your employer pay per month, for each of those? What changed in terms of what is or isn't covered, between now and then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Oh look....two pages in and we STILL have a Heath Care Thread that is going unused!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ax said: Well, I'm not putting my information on here for you to see. And I don't really care how it's affected other people. I know what it's done to me. I pay the bills. Not going to put my friends business on the web either. But I know what they tell me, and I believe them. Even the uber left friends that I have. My assertions are based on that. We used to pay, in the last year of Bush, around $200 a month, with a $250ea deductible, for a good family plan. We now pay $1000 a month, with a $2000ea deductible. And our increases are now paying for our insurance, plus people who I don't know, or give a rats ass about. No, healthcare is not a right, IMO. So, for me, Obamacare has been a botched abortion. And my money is all I care about. Again, health care costs and insurance were going up faster than inflation BEFORE Obamcare. The fact that your plans went up isn't really evidence that it had anything to do with Obamacare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: The GOP did not WANT a Govt HC plan. From anyone. It's lazy to say they opposed it because they hated anything from Obama. Ok, they also opposed it because they are beholden to corporate lobbyists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, PeterMP said: Again, health care costs and insurance were going up faster than inflation BEFORE Obamcare. The fact that your plans went up isn't really evidence that it had anything to do with Obamacare. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/18/barack-obama/obama-said-health-care-reform-will-reduce-cost-hea/ "We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade. "Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: And told over and over again that it's solely the fault of the GOP. Hypocrisy is funny that way. The GOP did not WANT a Govt HC plan. From anyone. It's lazy to say they opposed it because they hated anything from Obama. How are you defining this? Aren't Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, and the VA all government health care plans? The GOP passed the part D program. Even now many Republicans for example that talk about the need to have a system to deal with pre-existing conditions,including Trump. And that's why they haven't full repealed the ACA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: And told over and over again that it's solely the fault of the GOP. Hypocrisy is funny that way. Oh man. It's hypocritical to blame the GOP and not the dems for giving rise to a DonaldTrump? I blame the GOP for Hillary then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ax said: And our increases are now paying for our insurance, plus people who I don't know, or give a rats ass about. No, healthcare is not a right, IMO. So, for me, Obamacare has been a botched abortion. And my money is all I care about. This is how health insurance works. It’s how it worked before ACA and it’s how it will work after ACA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Oh for sure the Ins Co's are to blame. Too bad Obama gave them such a sweetheart deal in the first place. And yet, one of the features of Obamacare is that it legislates that the insurance companies have to pay back out 80% of the premiums they collect. (I seem to remember that the Republicans managed to kill that part, recently, but I'm not sure.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Oh man. It's hypocritical to blame the GOP for Trump and not the dems? I blame the GOP for Hillary then. I do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bang said: And of course, the insurance companies are not to blame in any way at all for jacking up rates when presented with the opportunity to do so. ~Bang No, you're right, Bang. The insurance companies are a major contributor. But just like a QB gets the blame, or the credit, for whatever happens, Obama was at the helm when this thing was forced on the country. That's the way things go. in reality, I think the d leadership had much more to do with plan than Obama did. But, he was the guy in charge, and could have held them up to do a better plan, instead of ramming it down everyone's throat. Knowing once it was implementing it, it would be damn hard to get rid of. Wasn't even one of the main the architects of it caught on tape laughing at how the media and the public were intentionally duped into buying the lies used to sell it? Can't remember his name. I also left out ****ing about prescription costs because it's not fair to pin that on Obama. Although he, like every other President so far, failed to do anything about it, that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/18/barack-obama/obama-said-health-care-reform-will-reduce-cost-hea/ "We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade. "Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill." The ACA contains policies that were designed to bend the curve. Hospital re-emissions are down. Hospitals are doing things like following up with elderly patients to make sure they understand their prescriptions, which help reduce re=emissions. https://www.statnews.com/2016/12/27/obamacare-success-penalties-readmissions/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378513/ Now, you can argue that it didn't do enough fast enough, but it clearly had things that were an effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, PeterMP said: The ACA contains policies that were designed to bend the curve. Hospital re-emissions are down. Hospitals are doing things like following up with elderly patients to make sure they understand their prescriptions, which help reduce re=emissions. https://www.statnews.com/2016/12/27/obamacare-success-penalties-readmissions/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4378513/ Now, you can argue that it didn't do enough fast enough, but it clearly had things that were an effort. The point to that post was to show that Obama's message was always about saving families and businesses money. Not that their increases would be less than expected. The opposite has occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Larry said: How much did your employer pay per month, for each of those? What changed in terms of what is or isn't covered, between now and then? Our costs I listed were AFTER the company paid half. (We had a different deal than most in the company, as a perc) Used to have limitless doctor visits, with a $20 copay. Now we get 1 yearly checkup, with a $50 copay. Others are now $80, out of pocket, until deduction is met. As part of all our old plans, Spiriva script was $30 month. Latest plan is $75 a month, on top of a yearly $250 deductible. I think it's a $20 increase for referrals. Which is new to our latest plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: The point to that post was to show that Obama's message was always about saving families and businesses money. The opposite has occurred. There was plenty of talk about increasing the number of people that are covered. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2007/dec/03/clinton-and-obamas-dueling-health-plans/ The ACA always had duel goals of increasing the number insured and helping controlling costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Not to mention, the ultimate goal of government controlled cradle to grave healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 minute ago, PeterMP said: There was plenty of talk about increasing the number of people that are covered. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2007/dec/03/clinton-and-obamas-dueling-health-plans/ The ACA always had duel goals of increasing the number insured and helping controlling costs. I think it had more that 2 goals. But specific to the claim that it would reduce costs, it has failed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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