Kirk Cousins leads NFL in passing yards through Week 8

[Wildbunny]

25 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

You're the biggest blind homer on this site.  The only person with a skewed vision is you.  I'm not bashing Barry for the Dallas game.  You were ripping Wade to prop up your boy based on one game, where it was obvious that Denver's defense was not the major issue.  

Wade has coached top defenses wherever he has gone.  Just because it doesn't last forever doesn't mean that he isn't head and shoulders above Joe Barry.  If you were to give coaches and GMs a 'who's a better DC?' survey with their two names on it...I'm pretty sure I know what the outcome would be.

The question has never been about whether Barry can do more with less, it's about whether he is the guy who can lead our defense when we get the talent needed to compete for a championship.  Wade and Bowles have proven that they can.  Barry couldn't figure out that Norman should shadow Antonio Brown.

It's also quite well documented (even around here) that Wade's defenses are good the first year and decline quite fast after the second year. That's likely a general theme from them as years go on.

Now, I wouldn't on the outcome of a survey, we've seen examples lately that they don't always unfold as they should. I remember reading here in an article that Barry's seen as a top notch DC from some in the NFL, so don't expect it to be as you think it would, you could be in for a huge slap.

I don't even see the problem in Barry not shadowing Brown with Norman. Does Richard Sherman shadow the best opposing WR? He doesn't switch sides. And he's supposed to be the best CB in the NFL? And Dan Quinn was highly seen amongst here.

Also, it's interesting you're bringing Bowles in the discussion when the guy did great with better talent in Arizona (than us), and ****ed it all in NY with even better talent (than us, and maybe Arizona as well).

And that's where I'll stop to not derail this thread anymore. It's time to punt back to the Offense and Kirk Cousins.

[Rskins06]

27 minutes ago, Audible_Red40 said:

I'm not taking anything away from the team, as they are playing great football.  But as fans, many tend to shy away from the positive truths.  There are if's on the other side too.

Redskins could easily have lost to the Browns and Ravens, and possibly the Giants.

Yeah, but that would take away from the narrative of my post.

[CBass1724]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

really my biggest worry, and we've seen it this year not just with us but all across the league, is how drastically big contracts essentially **** up your depth. Suddenly you can't have high priced talent sitting on the bench. I guarantee we would all be thrilled if we were still able to plug in Keenan Robinson back there at MLB instead of Compton, but it just didn't warrant the money considering we still need to lock up Kirk. Same with corner. Either one of Culliver or Goldson probably would have helped but their salaries were too high. 

Both dudes you referenced in the bold went to new teams and are now unemployed.  They would have been a waste of money, but I know what you're trying to say.

I'm no Joe Barry fan, but his problems come from lack of quality players.  We're just not there yet on D.  I'm not worried about the cap with the Cousins deal because they always figure out a way to make things work.  We'll have a lot of drafted and UDFA's come in these next couple years that will fill in the holes on the defense.  Just gotta lock up Cousins first and then see where things stand in regards to spending money elsewhere.  The front office probably has many, many different plans and scenarios they are already going through.

[TheGreek1973]

19 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Nah man, I definitely admit it took me longer to get on board than some and Kudos to you guys for seeing it sooner than I did (seriously). I'm a supporter of over paying this off-season and trying make it happen with him going forward.

For me, the narrative has changed for Kirk, he's playing at a very high level that I believe gives the Skins a chance versus most opponent, that's a big deal (something I overlooked early on and came to my senses about, the value of him giving the Skins a fighting chance each game), but there's still room for great improvement, because of his high ceiling. I believe he would say the same thing and has publicly talked about areas he needs to improve on.

 

A lot of what I want to him to improve (climbing and manipulating the pocket, running at opportunistic times, off schedule playmaking, deep shots- not for the he$$ of it, but to make the defense fear it) I realize comes with game experience, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to root for those things to occur next week or thereafter, you know.

 

Lastly, I readily admit I have zero emotion as it relates to these guys on a personal level, so I can come off as harsh, but I still try to be realistic about my expectations. 

Thanks for the post. And I am in total agreement that there is room for improvement, especially with ability to make up plays on the fly.  But that is the incredible thing, there are things he can improve at and if he does how much better can he be?

[goskins10]

21 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I'll respond to all but only quote this part.

the different between Marino and Cousins at this point is that Miami was not in a position where they had to decide if Marino was  

 

Edit

 

I hope you are right and he is the man for this team because otherwise if he isn't and we do sign him long term, this team would be back to square one all those years ago.

 

I really do not think we are as far off as it may seem. I will take some blame for that is how some of my responses have been framed. So let me try again:

 

I am not saying Kirk is Dan Marino - not even close. I will also agree that Kirk started fairly rough, where Marino was at least very good from the start. But wasn't that SB appearance the only one? Anyway, again, my only point here is that you have to make a decision. If you keep being skeptical too long you keep looking in frustration.

As for Scot agreeing, I believe I said I agreed with tagging him for this year. What we are talking about is what is done after this year.

 

Neither one of us knows for sure what Scot is thinking, but all indications are that he is sold and is ready and more than willing to make sure he gets paid. But fair enough, there is nothing concrete. We will have to wait until the off-season to find out. I think he will get paid.

I also agree the RZ issues have to be solved. It does no good to move from 20 to 20 and keep getting FGs. But I really think that's as much a problem of no rushing game as anything. But it also appears to be Kirk gets tentative. I feel pretty confident they will figure it out. But it is a serious concern.

 

As for GB, maybe I misunderstood your comment from the start. You said Kirks completions and yards were in garbage time. Then you state they only scored 7 pts in the last 43 minutes after taking an 11 pts lead. I agree the Off struggled after a good start, in fact he had more completions, yards and both TDs to put the team in the lead after the 1st drive of the 3rd period. Why they struggled later in the game is due to a lot of things - including Kirk. He was not making good decisions late. I think he felt the pressure of the game since it became clear the D was not stopping anyone. But that to me is different than him getting yards in garbage time.

 

I am still curious what you will be your response if/when he gets the contract I suggested; upwards of $25M/yr for 5yrs with a $55M signing bonus and about $80M guaranteed? I think someone said that would be about 16% of the CAP. I have not done the math so I am trusting theirs.  

[CTskin]

Please god no more Marino to Cousins comparisons. The Dolphins had the #1 D for Marino's first couple seasons. A slight bit different than what Cousins has had.

 

And Tom Brady takes pay cuts each year because his wife is worth a half a billion dollars... 

[PartyPosse]

11 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I am still curious what you will be your response if/when he gets the contract I suggested; upwards of $25M/yr for 5yrs with a $55M signing bonus and about $80M guaranteed? I think someone said that would be about 16% of

 

My response will be HTTR because I bleed burgundy and gold regardless of who is at the helm.

[BleedBNG]

3 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

He plays scared as far as I'm concerned.

 

When playing against a good defense, I sense this too. It's like his contract is in good shape with the stats and 20-20 performance, but don't screw it up with any INT's in the end zone or anywhere near it. Which is OK in a way... I'd rather put up 3 than nothing. It could be from bad play calling, short field, lack of effective running plays etc. One thing I've noticed is, besides his pocket presence (best check downs I've seen in a while), his roll outs to the right not only give him more time, but seem to give him more accurate throwing plays. To the left, not so good. I think the Cowboys picked up some of his right side roll outs and were ready for them. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

LOL - If name calling is all you have then it's clear you have nothing of value to add. Time to move on.

 

Come on man, just stop. Nobody prevents you from being the lovable homer mom protecting your redskins babies but don't compare Joe Barry to Wade Phillips or defend Joe and criticize Wade. There is no comparison. Its not a good look, even for you.  

[goskins10]

19 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Come on man, just stop. Nobody prevents you from being the lovable homer mom protecting your redskins babies but don't compare Joe Barry to Wade Phillips or defend Joe and criticize Wade. There is no comparison. Its not a good look, even for you.  

 

 

If it makes me a "homer" - really stupid thing to say, but I am guessing that's the limits of your vocabulary so we will go with it - to point out facts and data to suggest that people are being overly critical, then so be it. Sorry facts bother you.

 

No one is comparing Barry to Wade. Just pointing out that Wade has a history of being a 1 year wonder. Also pointing out that Barry has had a lot less talent to work with. Of course Wades body of work is bigger and he has certainly had some success. But it would be nice to give Barry a real chance before just firing people which seems to be some people favorite refrain after every loss.

 

Had you bothered to read any number of other posts I have made on the subject, you will see I have been critical of the team including the Defense from time to time, but I do try to see things from a more positive point of view. Some of you guys just want everyone to be as miserable and hate everything as much as you do - see I can over generalize as much as you do.

 

But if calling me names and talking down to me makes you feel like a big man - go for it. No law against it. Just not a good look, even for you.

[Commander -JB-]

I just came in to ask if some fans still refer to our franchise QB as Kurt Cousins?  Like, do people still mess that up?  I just remember during the whole RG3/Cousins beef it just seemed that a lot of RG3 fanboys referred to Cousins as "Kurt."  I know I'm not the only one.... lol

[BleedBNG]

8 minutes ago, -JB- said:

I just came in to ask if some fans still refer to our franchise QB as Kurt Cousins?  Like, do people still mess that up?  I just remember during the whole RG3/Cousins beef it just seemed that a lot of RG3 fanboys referred to Cousins as "Kurt."  I know I'm not the only one.... lol

 

I remember the "Why did Shanny even bother to draft another QB?... waste of a draft pick" folks. Man, has times changed.

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

 

I remember the "Why did Shanny even bother to draft another QB?... waste of a draft" folks. Man, has times changed.

I remember 4 picks before that pick, seeing his name still available and calling the pick 

 

Crazy how it's all worked out.

[skins island connection]

4 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

There REALLY is a severe lack of talent on defense. Maybe good DCs can get away with it against mediocre teams but offensive juggernauts like Dallas should have had a field day and they did.

 

I wrote [ ok, typed ] a fairly long thread regarding coaching vs talent, and I didn't get a single damn response.

Why?

Because I'm right.

Look, defensive coordinators not only call plays, but they teach as well. That's what gives someone like Wade or GW an edge. Yes, there are some cases where their defense failed, but overall every single one of them had hustle, hard hitting, and turnovers. They played aggressive.

Point is, a good DC 'teaches'   players how to play smart and aggressive without blowing the play. These players don't come straight from college Pro Bowl ready, they have coaches who teach them the nuances of playing defense. They put their players in the best position possible to win their individual battle; they teach these players HOW to play defense.

 

Barry, like Haslett, doesn't have a clue on being aggressive; their playcalling is conservative, and moreso against good offenses. Playing scared, hoping the opponent will make a mistake. When playoff time comes, its difficult to find a team who makes a lot of mistakes. There is no aggression in this defense; its like they're playing reactionary defense, which is stopping the player AFTER the catch is made.

 Every once in awhile there will be a big mis-match on the line, and sometimes it forces the QB to throw a bad ball that's intercepted; but that's once in awhile. That won't cut it in today's NFL.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

I wrote [ ok, typed ] a fairly long thread regarding coaching vs talent, and I didn't get a single damn response.

Why?

Because I'm right.

Look, defensive coordinators not only call plays, but they teach as well. That's what gives someone like Wade or GW an edge. Yes, there are some cases where their defense failed, but overall every single one of them had hustle, hard hitting, and turnovers. They played aggressive.

Point is, a good DC 'teaches'   players how to play smart and aggressive without blowing the play. These players don't come straight from college Pro Bowl ready, they have coaches who teach them the nuances of playing defense. They put their players in the best position possible to win their individual battle; they teach these players HOW to play defense.

 

Oh I agree. I think Barry deserves 50% of the blame because of poor schemes and how quickly teams seem to score at the beginning of games. It's as if we planned for an entirely different team.

But Barry can't teach Compton to have longer arms or RJF to be strong enough to blow up the interior. Some players just aren't that good. If everyone was just easily teachable to be pro-bowlers then everyone would be a first round draft pick. I think you are underestimating pure talent and athleticism but it for sure take a combination of skill and smarts to succeed in today's NFL. 

[ncr2h]

With week 12 in the bag, and with Derek Carr and Matt Stafford still getting MVP darkhorse talk from casual fans, will the 2016 Redskins be the first team in NFL history to produce a 5,000 yard passer without a single Pro Bowler on offense?  Think about it:

 

Potential Redskins Pro Bowlers on Offense:

- Trent Williams: 4 time Pro Bowler BUT missed 4 games, so unlikely

- Brandon Scherff: Top 5 pick playing well BUT not an incumbent and Cowboys playing well = less spots for non-Cowboys, so unlikely

- Jordan Reed: Snub last year and playing well this year especially on nationally televised games, BUT has missed 2 weeks and may miss more, and Witten may take up an undeserving spot this year due to the coming Cowboys wave

- Jamison Crowder: National profile is rising due to big plays this year BUT like Scherff he's only beginning to get national recognition and it is difficult to make Pro Bowl at WR with under 1,200 yards

- Kirk Cousins: Snub last year (although not widely acknowledged as such) BUT national profile is only beginning to rise and with the Carr/Stafford narratives ensuring continuing, he is competing with bigger names/fanbases for that last spot (assuming Brady, Brees, Ryan, Carr, Stafford are locks, he would likely be competing with Wilson, Prescott, Rodgers, Mariota, Eli, and Roethlisberger).

 

I think those are the only reasonably possible candidates.  Of the candidates listed above, I would say that only Jordan Reed has a better than 50/50 chance of making it in, but that's highly contingent on whether he misses additional time with this new injury.  In terms of likelihood, I would say it's Reed, then Scherff, then Williams, then Cousins, then Crowder.

[Commander -JB-]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I remember 4 picks before that pick, seeing his name still available and calling the pick 

 

Crazy how it's all worked out.

I liked the pick from the get go.  Always draft best player available.  

[Tsailand]

4 minutes ago, ncr2h said:

Crowder

Zero chance of making the pro bowl.  Nobody outside of DC or 10% of fantasy owners knows this guy exists.

 

Remember, the national media doesn't actually watch Redskins games, and they sure as heck don't do film breakdowns.  Their stories are based on four minute game highlight videos.

[Spaceman Spiff]

7 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Brady took significantly less.

really my biggest worry, and we've seen it this year not just with us but all across the league, is how drastically big contracts essentially **** up your depth. Suddenly you can't have high priced talent sitting on the bench. I guarantee we would all be thrilled if we were still able to plug in Keenan Robinson back there at MLB instead of Compton, but it just didn't warrant the money considering we still need to lock up Kirk. Same with corner. Either one of Culliver or Goldson probably would have helped but their salaries were too high. It's not a knock on Cousins, just how easily big contracts has such a domino affect. Don't expect Ty back as backup OT if he is gonna want 3-4 mil a year. That's a big loss and if we didn't have him this year who knows how we survive the 4 game Trent suspension?

 

Apologies for the late response.  I actually had to do some work.  

 

I'm too lazy to look up how much less Brady took but IIRC he deferred a lot of money and while he's still making a lot it's still a very team friendly deal.  

 

I don't pretend to know how the cap works, but I know the Skins have Eric Shaffer.  And while I know it's kind of ignorant to throw up my hands and say "Well, the Skins have Eric Shaffer," that's exactly what I'm doing because it's that guys job day in and day out to figure out how to work with the cap better than anyone.   And what I do know is that none of our stupid deals over the years, not McNabb, even Haynesworth, or anyone else has hamstrung the team from doing what they want to do.  The Skins, by and large get what they want and they get who they want and from what I can tell they've never really been in "cap hell" like some other teams have.

 

I get the hesitation about giving Cousins a crap ton of money but at some point you've gotta throw down for a quarterback, you've gotta put the chips on the table.   Either they do it for him or let him walk, try to draft one and then we have to "wait until he learns the system" and all that dumb drama and scrutiny that follows.   There's no better place than here, there's no better time than now and there's no better quarterback than him to spend on.    

[wit33]

6 hours ago, CBass1724 said:

Both dudes you referenced in the bold went to new teams and are now unemployed.  They would have been a waste of money, but I know what you're trying to say.

I'm no Joe Barry fan, but his problems come from lack of quality players.  We're just not there yet on D.  I'm not worried about the cap with the Cousins deal because they always figure out a way to make things work.  We'll have a lot of drafted and UDFA's come in these next couple years that will fill in the holes on the defense.  Just gotta lock up Cousins first and then see where things stand in regards to spending money elsewhere.  The front office probably has many, many different plans and scenarios they are already going through.

 

I think many of us fans are in for a learning experience after Kirk receives this contract. My guess some surprises will occur with roster moves as a result in the future. 

6 hours ago, CTskin said:

Please god no more Marino to Cousins comparisons. The Dolphins had the #1 D for Marino's first couple seasons. A slight bit different than what Cousins has had.

 

And Tom Brady takes pay cuts each year because his wife is worth a half a billion dollars... 

So, you are actually comparing him to Marino by saying Marino had a great defense and Kirk didn't? lol, "Come on man"!

 

I actually thought you were trying to stop the silliness of comparing Kirk to a legend of the game. This is where some Kirk supporters lose me. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

Problem is that we're 9th in scoring but 2nd in total yards behind NO (who is 1st in yards and 2nd in scoring).

The red zone issues are real. Whoever or whatever is to blame, if we want to be a consistently winning team it has to get fixed...whether it's Kirk, McVay, Gruden or, more likely, a combination of all three. The yards are just not translating into as many points as they should.

 

I know no one wants to hear this and just want to yell and complain but from year to year, no team is consistently good in the redzone unless you have a dual threat QB like Carolina or a coach like Belicheck.

 

The Ringer did an article on this and I posted it a few years back. Essentially, there is some flukiness in the team's struggles this year.

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

I know no one wants to hear this and just want to yell and complain but from year to year, no team is consistently good in the redzone unless you have a dual threat QB like Carolina or a coach like Belicheck.

 

The Ringer did an article on this and I posted it a few years back. Essentially, there is some flukiness in the team's struggles this year.

 I dunno, most of the elite QBs in the league (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc) are very good in the red zone year in and year out. That's one of the reasons the Saints are 1st in yards as well as 2nd in scoring. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 I dunno, most of the elite QBs in the league (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc) are very good in the red zone year in and year out. That's one of the reasons the Saints are 1st in yards as well as 2nd in scoring. 

 

Here's the article. Fair point on Brees but again, he's Drew Brees. 

 

https://theringer.com/nfl-offenses-red-zone-efficiency-panthers-saints-patriots-3f6ae285941a#.4oha2ghx6

 

You'll see that for most of the league, there's a bit of luck and circumstance involved. I'm not excusing the poor play but I'm not going to get all crazy about it when it's an issue basically league round. 

 

Hopefully, Kirk turns into Drew Brees. Hell, we were amazing in the redzone just 12 months ago.

[illone]

I never really understood why fans bother themselves with the cap too much.  Unless you know all the rules, you are really playing a chess game without all the pieces.  Moral of the story? Don't play chess without all the pieces.  

 

We can go back and forth about the "worth" of Cousins, is he mid-tier, top-tier, etc etc. but the reality is the cap goes up every year and even if Kirk signed a mega deal the Skins will work it into their budget and get everyone paid who they want to keep around.  Business as usual, so why even concern yourself with the details of $20 Mil per year or $25 Mil per year?  It's very pointless.

[zoony]

1 minute ago, illone said:

I never really understood why fans bother themselves with the cap too much.  Unless you know all the rules, you are really playing a chess game without all the pieces.  Moral of the story? Don't play chess without all the pieces.  

 

We can go back and forth about the "worth" of Cousins, is he mid-tier, top-tier, etc etc. but the reality is the cap goes up every year and even if Kirk signed a mega deal the Skins will work it into their budget and get everyone paid who they want to keep around.  Business as usual, so why even concern yourself with the details of $20 Mil per year or $25 Mil per year?  It's very pointless.

 

Ive been saying exactly this since 2006

Nothing worse than the "cap guru" fan who has convinced themselves they have a clue (they dont. they never do)

 

2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

Zero chance of making the pro bowl.  Nobody outside of DC or 10% of fantasy owners knows this guy exists.

 

Remember, the national media doesn't actually watch Redskins games, and they sure as heck don't do film breakdowns.  Their stories are based on four minute game highlight videos.

He has a shot as a punt returner