Kirk Cousins leads NFL in passing yards through Week 8

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Eh, I'm sorta disappointed with how his defense has played considering the talent he's got upfront. 

Eh, I'll take 12th in total defense with that trash of an offense he has any day of the week.  

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

That makes some sense but you're also overlooking the pressure from the NFLPA to keep salaries high.  Say if Brees took a significantly less salaried position to stay in NO, there'd be a lot of players out there PISSED because he just threw the comps out of whack.

Brady took significantly less.

really my biggest worry, and we've seen it this year not just with us but all across the league, is how drastically big contracts essentially **** up your depth. Suddenly you can't have high priced talent sitting on the bench. I guarantee we would all be thrilled if we were still able to plug in Keenan Robinson back there at MLB instead of Compton, but it just didn't warrant the money considering we still need to lock up Kirk. Same with corner. Either one of Culliver or Goldson probably would have helped but their salaries were too high. It's not a knock on Cousins, just how easily big contracts has such a domino affect. Don't expect Ty back as backup OT if he is gonna want 3-4 mil a year. That's a big loss and if we didn't have him this year who knows how we survive the 4 game Trent suspension?

[Rskins06]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

If by dangerous you mean having the defense on the field with a small lead late in the 4th quarter, I agree.  This team is dangerous as ****. 

No, I mean dangerous by the offense and its ability to score.  6-2-1 the last 9 games, you could make the argument had it not been for 2 missed FGs (Cowboy game and Bengals game), a fumble inside the 5 yd line and an int inside the 10 yd line (first Cowboy game), this team could be 10-1 right now.  Yes, I know, if "if's and buts were candy and nuts, we would all be sweet tooth mother****ers", but this team can be dangerous.  This team is capable of beating anyone and if they minimize mistakes, yes, this team can be dangerous.

I am not saying they are SB bound, but I am saying there aren't many teams who would want to face them in the playoffs.

[skins island connection]

2 hours ago, Rskins06 said:

If I was an owner in the NFC East, I would be very concerned if the Redskins throw a lot of money towards the Defense this offseason.  The Offense is extremely dangerous and if you match it up with a competent Defense......scary!  Kirk may go down as one of the best QBs in Redskins history, the ONLY thing holding this team back is the Defense! 

Damn, what I wouldn't give to get Greg Williams back and see what he could do on this Defense along with this Defense.

 Me too. Some look at his off-field issues and point out his rankings, but he gets into the heads of players and makes them WANT to play hard for him. OK, maybe he's not the best DC, but at this point Barry isn't doing anything to better the team. 

The big problem that many don't look at is the future; right now, outside of a strong running game, our offense is moving the ball and scoring points; the defense isn't anywhere close to performing at that level. Even IF Barry ever does halfway get it together [ which I doubt being his  past history ] by the time this happens, the offense will be picked apart by free agency, and our once power offense will be mediocre at best.

This is frustrating; i'm sure the FO HAS to know the defense is horrible and vulnerable, but no one has the nutsack to stand up and demand a coaching change in the DC position. Barry was not and will never be a good DC; the scapegoat claims of him not having good players is BS; good DCs know how to teach players to be great.

[skinfan2k]

19 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

Not sure if serious?

But with our red zone issues, there would have been no guarantee that we would've punched it in had he done that.

 are people seriously complaining about kirk scoring too fast. we gave the other team not even a minute with 1 timeout to drive down the field. 

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, skins island connection said:

This is frustrating; i'm sure the FO HAS to know the defense is horrible and vulnerable, but no one has the nutsack to stand up and demand a coaching change in the DC position. Barry was not and will never be a good DC; the scapegoat claims of him not having good players is BS; good DCs know how to teach players to be great.

There REALLY is a severe lack of talent on defense. Maybe good DCs can get away with it against mediocre teams but offensive juggernauts like Dallas should have had a field day and they did.

6 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Eh, I'll take 12th in total defense with that trash of an offense he has any day of the week.  

Don't know where you got 12th from but they're 21st in terms of PPG against at 24.2 ppg against. To put it in perspective we're above them at a stingy 24.0 ppg against lol. 

[goskins10]

36 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I don't think it was a question of comparing the two QB. I was just asked if I thought marino's career was considered a failure.

But when you did reference Jim Kelly, I'm pretty sure if the skins went to 4 straight SB and lost then all there would be a mass suicide of posters here.

Lastly, The GB game, no it was clearly not on him, but, once again, red zone deficiencies and an inability to put teams away early really began in that game and for the most part has been a continuing problem this year. Also, a lot of his yards/completions came in second half with the game out of reach and the Pack playing a prevent style defense. Let's not fool ourselves, this game was lost when we as a team were unable to put the game away early despite so many glorious chances.

 

I know you were not comparing the two QBs. My point was if you were to compare them at the same point in their careers - 1.5 seasons into Marino's life as a starter - would you have been saying - I need to see some PO success before I believe in him? The fact is there is no way anyone lets Marino go at that point, He was showing he had the potential to at least be very good. You have no way of knowing the future. At some point you have to make a call. If you wait until you are "sure" you will be waiting and losing for a very long time. Don't' get me wrong, I believe them giving Kirk the tag for this year made sense. He had 9 good games, with some very rocky and inconsistent play before. But at this point, it's not a mistake. This guy can play. And he keeps getting better.

About the garbage time excuse against GB - sorry it's just not true. Through the first half and the 1st drive in the 2nd half when he scored his rushing TD to make the score 18-17 Redskins - Kirks numbers were: 17/23 182 yds and both TDs (1 pass, 1 rush). Again that made the score 18-17 Redskins. That makes him 12/23 and 147 yds with no TDs the rest of the way. Much of that as due to GBs ball control. Our D could not get off the field. Again, sorry the garbage time statement holds no water here.

I did not reference Jim Kelly. But I would still take my chances with Jim Kelly 1.5 season into his career. They also had other problems - inconsistent D was the biggest. They fell down at bad times. Also, the Bills were wide right away from having at least 1 SB. How is that on Kelly? If they make that, how much does that change Jim Kelly's legacy? All because a kicker missed an easy FG.

My bigger point here is that the expectations for Kirk at this point are becoming irrational It's a constant setting and resetting of the bar. If not Kirk, then who? And how quickly will they be ready?

[crabbypatty]

51 minutes ago, mistertim said:

In some respects, you may be right. However, a better defense isn't going to solve our red zone issues.

I think a big part of the rz issues fall on the play calling.

McVay seems to pick a theme and stick with it, no matter what. Using the dallas games as an example, the first one was fade. fade fade fade 37 times in the rz, and no dice. This most recent game was all about the screen pass, all of which failed miserably. Who knows, maybe a better defense takes the pressure off the offense to have to do something to score a td every single time and they outsmart themselves.. maybe if they weren't afraid a td would be given right back up the other way the playcalling in the rz would loosen up and they may convert more often.

17 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

This is frustrating; i'm sure the FO HAS to know the defense is horrible and vulnerable, but no one has the nutsack to stand up and demand a coaching change in the DC position. Barry was not and will never be a good DC; the scapegoat claims of him not having good players is BS; good DCs know how to teach players to be great.

 

The same thing was said in defense of hazbeen for 5+ years as well.. look at how that turned out

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Don't know where you got 12th from but they're 21st in terms of PPG against at 24.2 ppg against. To put it in perspective we're above them at a stingy 24.0 ppg against lol. 

Ha!  Yeah, I got it from total yards.  I'll concede that the Jets aren't a defensive juggernaut this year, but I much prefer Bowles' scheme and aggressive tendencies over Barry.  Bowles has proven that he can coach a top defense.  Barry has proven that he gets to have excuses made for him each season until we're finally healthy enough to prove that he's not very good.

[PartyPosse]

7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

know you were not comparing the two QBs. My point was if you were to compare them at the same point in their careers - 1.5 seasons into Marino's life as a starter - would you have been saying - I need to see some PO success before I believe in him? The fact is there is no way anyone lets Marino go at that point, He was showing he had the potential to at least be very good.

Dan Marino threw for 48 TD and 5,000 yards his second season. He was 23 years old and a first round pedigree. I know I said stats mean squat but Cousins is on pace for same yards and a little more than half of the TD totals. As good as Cousins has played he's still not close to Marino's level at the time and Dan was 4-5 years younger!

but yes, at the time, if you would have seen the type of numbers Dan was putting up that early you would have been completely amazed, shocked and, if you were a Dolphins fan, utterly disappointed that he never won a Super Bowl. 

[TSO]

4 hours ago, Rskins06 said:

Damn, what I wouldn't give to get Greg Williams back and see what he could do on this Defense along with this Defense.

 

Gregg Williams + Mediocre Dline + Poor ILB play + No Safeties outside of Sean Taylor = Historically bad defense. 

 

See 2006. 

[goskins10]

31 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Taking shots at Wade and defending Barry in one post?  That's hilarious.  And did you watch the KC game?  Denver's defense was stout.  Both defenses were stout, but got tired out as the game wore on due to lack of offense on both sides.   

I want Todd Bowles to come to DC in the worst way.  I think his style of defense is a perfect complement to what we're trying to do on offense.  

  

 

What's hilarious is that you did not look at the facts or data. Just went with your own skewed view. So how come Wade's D was "stout then got tired" after a full weeks rest, plus a day, playing at home, but our D who held dallast to 17 pts until the 4th Q after an extremely short week and having to travel to dallast, is just bad? They gave up a TD on the 1st drive then the Off had 5 chances to score before dallast got it's other TD with a FG in their to get to 17 at the half. Then they held them scoreless in the 3rd Q. Meanwhile the Off could only muster 6 pts in the 1st 3Qs. Isn't that a lack of offense? The score at the end of 3 Qs was 17-6. Who is that on? The D? Give me a break.

Then they go off the last Q and it's the Def fault? You don't think they were tired by then? Where was the off the 1st 3 Qs? So what's really hilarious is you making an excuse for Wade and bashing Barry for exactly the same thing - with infinitely less talent and under much worse conditions!

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Ha!  Yeah, I got it from total yards.  I'll concede that the Jets aren't a defensive juggernaut this year, but I much prefer Bowles' scheme and aggressive tendencies over Barry.  Bowles has proven that he can coach a top defense.  Barry has proven that he gets to have excuses made for him each season until we're finally healthy enough to prove that he's not very good.

Heh! TBH I like Bowles a lot and clearly Arizona is hurting without him. I'm just shocked how poorly they've played consider the talent on that line with Wilk, Sheldon and Williams. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the complete collapse of Revis and the subpar play of first rounder Lee

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Dan Marino threw for 48 TD and 5,000 yards his second season. He was 23 years old and a first round pedigree. I know I said stats mean squat but Cousins is on pace for same yards and a little more than half of the TD totals. As good as Cousins has played he's still not close to Marino's level at the time and Dan was 4-5 years younger!

but yes, at the time, if you would have seen the type of numbers Dan was putting up that early you would have been completely amazed, shocked and, if you were a Dolphins fan, utterly disappointed that he never won a Super Bowl. 

 

So this is interesting. Part way down you say it's all about winning. Now you want to use stats and say they are relevant. It's a few perfect example of the moving target that you and some others have for Kirk. I noticed you did not respond to the garbage time data. This is an example of deciding something in your mind that's not true because it fits your narrative. The garbage time argument is totally false. He put us in a position to win. The D could not keep up with Rogers - hardly the 1st team to have that problem. Rogers will end up being one of the best all time.

This is just half way through Kirks second season. Yes, the TDs will be less - even considerably less. But most everything else is comparable. There are clearly RZ woes. But you can't put that all on him. But at the same point in their careers, while Marino is better, Kirk holds him own for the most part. My point was not that Kirk is the same QB - we are talking a top 10 ever player. But he is compares reasonably favorably in many categories. And we are winning!

Clearly not changing your mind. You have decided you do believe in Kirk. I am not sure why. But the reasons you are giving are not rational and they are not supported by any real data. But you like I am a fan. So you have that right. Better to just agree to disagree at this point.

One kind of different question. What exactly will you do if/when Kirk gets a contract for upwards of $25M/yr for 5yrs with a $55M signing bonus and about $80M guaranteed? I am pretty sure that's where this ends up. I could of course be very wrong. But everything points to a contract like that.

 

[TheGreek1973]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

The defense needs more talent, but Kirk and the offense are just as responsible for this seasons shortcomings. 

The offense as a whole has underperformed this season, in my opinion. 

I do think R. Kelley is going to continue to help push the offense to top tier level to end the season, but up to this point it's been an above average offense. 

We get it.  You don't like Cousins, but at the very least tell us how this offense has underperformed.  Total points we are 9th in the league.  Go ahead I will wait.  LOL

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

What's hilarious is that you did not look at the facts or data.

You're the biggest blind homer on this site.  The only person with a skewed vision is you.  I'm not bashing Barry for the Dallas game.  You were ripping Wade to prop up your boy based on one game, where it was obvious that Denver's defense was not the major issue.  

Wade has coached top defenses wherever he has gone.  Just because it doesn't last forever doesn't mean that he isn't head and shoulders above Joe Barry.  If you were to give coaches and GMs a 'who's a better DC?' survey with their two names on it...I'm pretty sure I know what the outcome would be.

The question has never been about whether Barry can do more with less, it's about whether he is the guy who can lead our defense when we get the talent needed to compete for a championship.  Wade and Bowles have proven that they can.  Barry couldn't figure out that Norman should shadow Antonio Brown.

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

We get it.  You don't like Cousins, but at the very least tell us how this offense has underperformed.  Total points we are 9th in the league.  Go ahead I will wait.  LOL

Problem is that we're 9th in scoring but 2nd in total yards behind NO (who is 1st in yards and 2nd in scoring).

The red zone issues are real. Whoever or whatever is to blame, if we want to be a consistently winning team it has to get fixed...whether it's Kirk, McVay, Gruden or, more likely, a combination of all three. The yards are just not translating into as many points as they should.

[Audible_Red40]

38 minutes ago, Rskins06 said:

No, I mean dangerous by the offense and its ability to score.  6-2-1 the last 9 games, you could make the argument had it not been for 2 missed FGs (Cowboy game and Bengals game), a fumble inside the 5 yd line and an int inside the 10 yd line (first Cowboy game), this team could be 10-1 right now.  Yes, I know, if "if's and buts were candy and nuts, we would all be sweet tooth mother****ers", but this team can be dangerous.  This team is capable of beating anyone and if they minimize mistakes, yes, this team can be dangerous.

I am not saying they are SB bound, but I am saying there aren't many teams who would want to face them in the playoffs.

I'm not taking anything away from the team, as they are playing great football.  But as fans, many tend to shy away from the positive truths.  There are if's on the other side too.

Redskins could easily have lost to the Browns and Ravens, and possibly the Giants.

[wit33]

30 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

We get it.  You don't like Cousins, but at the very least tell us how this offense has underperformed.  Total points we are 9th in the league.  Go ahead I will wait.  LOL

Nah man, I definitely admit it took me longer to get on board than some and Kudos to you guys for seeing it sooner than I did (seriously). I'm a supporter of over paying this off-season and trying make it happen with him going forward.

For me, the narrative has changed for Kirk, he's playing at a very high level that I believe gives the Skins a chance versus most opponent, that's a big deal (something I overlooked early on and came to my senses about, the value of him giving the Skins a fighting chance each game), but there's still room for great improvement, because of his high ceiling. I believe he would say the same thing and has publicly talked about areas he needs to improve on.

 

A lot of what I want to him to improve (climbing and manipulating the pocket, running at opportunistic times, off schedule playmaking, deep shots- not for the he$$ of it, but to make the defense fear it) I realize comes with game experience, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to root for those things to occur next week or thereafter, you know.

 

Lastly, I readily admit I have zero emotion as it relates to these guys on a personal level, so I can come off as harsh, but I still try to be realistic about my expectations. 

[Tsailand]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

one player is asking for close to 20% of the entire pie for a long period of time

$25M/year would be about 16% to start and drop to 12% as the cap increases.  It doesn't matter. The team will do its cap magic to make the money count against later years, so we will have plenty of space for free agents and homegrown guys like Crowder.  The day of reckoning keeps getting pushed into the future, just as with the US debt.

[Stefanskins]

59 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Brady took significantly less.

 

yeah, but weren't there some shadiness going on...i.e. paying a front or "shell" business money to funnel it to brady on the sly...i could be remembering it wrong...

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Clearly not changing your mind. You have decided you do believe in Kirk. I am not sure why. But the reasons you are giving are not rational and they are not supported by any real data. But you like I am a fan. So you have that right. Better to just agree to disagree at this point.

I'll respond to all but only quote this part.

the different between Marino and Cousins at this point is that Miami was not in a position where they had to decide if Marino was worth long term commitment so it really didn't matter where they stood at that point. But if it was just about wins and losses, check out Marino's record the first two years. He was 7-4 in his 11 games as a start as a rookie and 12-4 and a Super Bowl birth his second year. At no point did he not show he wasn't capable, which isn't the same for Kirk. He's had his ups and downs. His good has been really good and his bad has been bad, but if you can honestly sit there and say that you aren't at least a little skeptical of what he can do long term solely because we just don't know (as you said), then that's your right. I wish I could be like that. Maybe I've just had too many bad girlfriend experiences where I'm always suspicious.

And I do agree stats have nothing to do with success but they are indicative of problems. The offense is fantastic and can move the ball at will... between the 20s. The disproportionates between yards and TDs is alarming and to me is more on the QB than coaching. In a WCO there is way more room for error as the personnel is spread out prompting defenders to spread it with them. No QB has to be pinpoint accurate in that predicament. That changes in red zone where there isn't as much space to work with and the defenders have less space to defend. That, to me is where a QB separates himself. I'm still not convinced. He plays scared as far as I'm concerned. I think he gets rattled easily and lets bad plays linger in his mind. 

the GB game, the team scored a whopping 1 TD in the last 43 minutes of the game after taking an 11 point lead. GB adjusted and we couldn't. You can say it was the D that couldn't keep up but the same applies to the O. Only when the game was out of reach did Kirk start finding more receivers downfield. Again, I can't put it on Kirk because I don't know who was responsible - playcalling, coaching.. who knows? I'll accept that.

You probably think I hate Kirk but the truth is I don't. I was elated when we drafted him and I have faith he could be the guy everyone else here already thinks he is. But we've all seen QBs come out guns blazing, torching defenses and proving naysayers wrong. But for every Big Ben there is a Jay Cutler. As far as I'm concerned my reasons for skepticism are rational and plausible and it's clear that I'm not the only one who feels that way - including our beloved GM. 

I hope you are right and he is the man for this team because otherwise if he isn't and we do sign him long term, this team would be back to square one all those years ago.

[goskins10]

20 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

You're the biggest blind homer on this site.  The only person with a skewed vision is you.  I'm not bashing Barry for the Dallas game.  You were ripping Wade to prop up your boy based on one game, where it was obvious that Denver's defense was not the major issue.  

Wade has coached top defenses wherever he has gone.  Just because it doesn't last forever doesn't mean that he isn't head and shoulders above Joe Barry.  If you were to give coaches and GMs a 'who's a better DC?' survey with their two names on it...I'm pretty sure I know what the outcome would be.

The question has never been about whether Barry can do more with less, it's about whether he is the guy who can lead our defense when we get the talent needed to compete for a championship.  Wade and Bowles have proven that they can.  Barry couldn't figure out that Norman should shadow Antonio Brown.

 

LOL - If name calling is all you have then it's clear you have nothing of value to add. Time to move on.

[Tsailand]

9 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

yeah, but weren't there some shadiness going on...i.e. paying a front or "shell" business money to funnel it to brady on the sly...i could be remembering it wrong...

Not proven, but it's the Patriots so that's probably what is going on.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

4 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

yeah, but weren't there some shadiness going on...i.e. paying a front or "shell" business money to funnel it to brady on the sly...i could be remembering it wrong...

Nah man, pretty sure that was Enron. 

Brady took less after he had made his bones and won some rings.  Cousins will do no such thing.

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

LOL - If name calling is all you have then it's clear you have nothing of value to add. Time to move on.

Just calling it like I see it.  I'll move on.  Thanks for all you do.