Kirk Cousins leads NFL in passing yards through Week 8

[Wildbunny]

Problem is not that Dan Marino never won a SB. It's a shame for the superbowl that Marino never won it.

If he was playing by now, he would throw for 6 or 7k yards.

[Llevron]

Hes going to get the deal. And he should. Not much else to ask but how you like him now? 

[CTskin]

17 hours ago, PlayAction said:

Can you count on Cousins to pull out the winning drive most of the time?  I think he has a good shot but I don't consider it as much of a given as you would for the QBs that you think of as true "franchise QBs".  I'm a Kirk Cousins fan but I don't want the team to be forced to pay him a salary that will preclude acquiring and keeping above average talent for the rest of the team. 

So, what salary would you feel comfortable paying him? At this point, it's indisputable that he'll be looking for north of $22M/yr...

Where would we be without Kirk? We'd be bad. I just don't understand how you can let a top 5-10 QB (statistically) walk. Aside from having a brick wall of a defense, teams don't win without great QB play. 

After two+ decades of mostly terrible QB play, I just can't wrap my head around rolling the dice and letting a good one go.

[TheGreek1973]

18 minutes ago, CTskin said:

So, what salary would you feel comfortable paying him? At this point, it's indisputable that he'll be looking for north of $22M/yr...

Where would we be without Kirk? We'd be bad. I just don't understand how you can let a top 5-10 QB (statistically) walk. Aside from having a brick wall of a defense, teams don't win without great QB play. 

After two+ decades of mostly terrible QB play, I just can't wrap my head around rolling the dice and letting a good one go.

Depends.  If we make the playoffs and win a game or two then I say he gets at least Luck money, probably more.  If not, then probably around 20+ million with 60 guaranteed for 5 years. 

[Thirtyfive2seven]

You give Kirk Cousins a halfway decent defense and it's game over.  Do you all NOT remember RGIII and his inability to put up any points or even move the ball.  Back then if the Redskins scored 20+ points this entire forum would throw a damn party.  Now you have a QB capable of dropping 20+ pts in a quarter and the defense can't get off the field or stop ANYBODY.

Go back and re-read some of your own comments about the Redskins offense from back then.  Heck, throw in Campbell, Ramsey and several other awful QB's over the past 10 seasons for that matter.

[Rskins06]

If I was an owner in the NFC East, I would be very concerned if the Redskins throw a lot of money towards the Defense this offseason.  The Offense is extremely dangerous and if you match it up with a competent Defense......scary!  Kirk may go down as one of the best QBs in Redskins history, the ONLY thing holding this team back is the Defense! 

Damn, what I wouldn't give to get Greg Williams back and see what he could do on this Defense along with this Defense.

[XtremeFan55]

Everyone acts like it's their money going towards paying Cousins.  We have Snyder, Scot and Eric Shaffer to figure that out.  GMSM has a reputation for finding college talent so he should be able to keep stocking the roster with lower priced impact players to keep us from going over the cap.  Look at Dallas with Dak and Elliot....2 low -priced rookies making a huge impact.  We should be able to find those players.  A franchise quarterback is the single most difficult player to find and they are worth their weight in gold when you find one... which Cousins is.  So you pay the market rate which will be $23 million plus per year.   You can't question this or play hard ball because losing one will put the team back for the next decade or more.  And all those questioning the value of Cousins because he hasn't won a playoff game or the Super Bowl...need to look at one of our own Ring of Honor HOF quarterbacks...Sonny Jurgensen.  He had a losing record for most of his career.  Even when George Allen came here and got the Redskins into the Super Bowl, it was Billy Kilmer who played most of those games.  Kirk Cousins can easily eclipse Sonny if he stays with the Redskins and will break all team passing records and have more wins including playoff games.  At the very least...Kirk Cousins name will be hanging on the Ring of Honor some day.  Count on it.  When you watch football for 40 years...3-4 games a week....you eventually can tell when a quarterback has it or not.  For a few years now I have been telling family members and friends that Cousins reminds me of Brady.  What would a Brady cost in the beginning of his prime and who would even think of passing on a player like Brady?  You open the bank and pray that those rare talents will stay and play for your team.  If they don't then Cousins will be playing somewhere else in 2018 and we will all be devastated at losing him.  It will be like going back to the Vinny and Zorn years.....and FedEx field will shrink even more as they cover more seating areas with colored tarps from lack of fan interest.

[Stefanskins]

20 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Three times:

so Cuz is the only QB in history to do that and not throw an int?

[goskins10]

 

42 minutes ago, Rskins06 said:

If I was an owner in the NFC East, I would be very concerned if the Redskins throw a lot of money towards the Defense this offseason.  The Offense is extremely dangerous and if you match it up with a competent Defense......scary!  Kirk may go down as one of the best QBs in Redskins history, the ONLY thing holding this team back is the Defense! 

Damn, what I wouldn't give to get Greg Williams back and see what he could do on this Defense along with this Defense.

 

You had me until that last statement. You mean the Greg Williams who just had 49 dropped on them? The same Greg Williams who's HC has used almost every significant draft pick in the last 5 yrs on D, including a few extra 1s from us, and still can't get into the top 10 in scoring D?

The level of talent on the Rams D vs. ours is not even close. Yet we are 18th in scoring and they are tied for 12th. Williams can stay right where he is, with his loser HC getting their asses kicked on a regular basis.

Scot will address the D this offseason. I am very excited to see how it comes together. Having said that, we are far from done this year.

[TheGreek1973]

44 minutes ago, Rskins06 said:

If I was an owner in the NFC East, I would be very concerned if the Redskins throw a lot of money towards the Defense this offseason.  The Offense is extremely dangerous and if you match it up with a competent Defense......scary!  Kirk may go down as one of the best QBs in Redskins history, the ONLY thing holding this team back is the Defense! 

Damn, what I wouldn't give to get Greg Williams back and see what he could do on this Defense along with this Defense.

Forget Williams, we had Wade in for an interview and we dropped the ball man.  I can't even imagine what Wade and Scottie working together could/would have done for this D.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Forget Williams, we had Wade in for an interview and we dropped the ball man.  I can't even imagine what Wade and Scottie working together could/would have done for this D.

 

You Wade the one year wonder? Wade comes in and has one good season then his Ds decline, and fairly quickly. After lasts years great D for 1 yr, it is no where near the same D. Did you watch last night? KC just put up 30 on them. What they needed a stop in the 4th Q and OT they could not get it. They let a KC team without much of a running game (Charles is out), pretty much do what they wanted.

I have done this before, but don't have the time. I ask you to look at Wades teams, but as a HC and DC and you will see he does well for a season, maybe 2 then his Ds fall off, in some cases quite dramatically.

I know this is not popular around here, but the book is not closed on Barry. I know some are certain they know more about Ds than Barry does, But I am certain he has forgotten more than you will ever know. He is getting about as much as he can with the talent he has. I look at guys coming off the bench and being ready to play.

What's hilarious to me is that they will make all kinds of excuses for the guys they want in here, but give no consideration to the guys here since it wasn't who they wanted.

 

[wit33]

The defense needs more talent, but Kirk and the offense are just as responsible for this seasons shortcomings. 

The offense as a whole has underperformed this season, in my opinion. 

I do think R. Kelley is going to continue to help push the offense to top tier level to end the season, but up to this point it's been an above average offense. 

[Stefanskins]

15 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Forget Williams, we had Wade in for an interview and we dropped the ball man.  I can't even imagine what Wade and Scottie working together could/would have done for this D.

maybe Todd Bowles comes back home?? He seems to be on the "hot seat" right now...he may be available as DC next year...

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Depends.  If we make the playoffs and win a game or two then I say he gets at least Luck money, probably more.  If not, then probably around 20+ million with 60 guaranteed for 5 years. 

If Kirk wins the Superbowl this year, he'll probably make a 6 year 180M with 150M guaranted. Dan will sign him until he's 50.

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

With all due respect the bolded part is what destroys your own setting of this line in the sand that Kirk must cross. Are you really telling me that a few seasons in, you would not have wanted Dan Marino to be your starting QB? I would find that very hard to believe.

Further, Marino is easily in any top 10 all time QB discussions. Yes, his personal career has a hole in it. But is that his fault? The lack of a running game and an inconsistent defense kept those teams from being more successful in the post season. But would you say, well I don't want Dan Marino on my team because the teams he is on have not had much post season success? Hell no. Give me Dan and I will take my chances. It's same argument for Archie Manning and I could name others but that should make the point. The decision by those teams to keep those guys as their QB is not what made them unsuccessful in the post season. It was a lack of support. But that does not take away from the players greatness.

If this team never develops a run game or/and the D does not improve, Kirk could put up 500 yds a game and never have much success in the post season. But does that mean we let Kirk go and start the very frustrating search for a QB all over again? I am not even saying Kirk is one of those guys yet. But good grief he has now played at an very high level for more than the equivalent of a full season and continued to check off each - "well he needs to do...." 

BTW: Saying he played poorly in the GB PO game is not exactly true. He was 29/46 for 63% - 329 yds - 2 TDs (1 passing 1 rushing) and 0 Ints. Not exactly a poor showing. He had no run game to speak of to help and the D was totally outmatched. So if as you say the loss was not even on him, and he actually had a pretty decent game, what exactly do you want him to do? Win all by himself? That's a totally unrealistic expectation. While some have done so, it makes much more sense and provides a more sustainable contender to build around a very good QB and provide the support needed than expecting the QB to do all the work. See Peyton Manning in Indy and to a certain extent Tony Romo.

Let me ask this, how much success in the POs are good enough? One win? Two? Four? Does he have to win a SB? two? Where is that line in the sand? What if we win but he plays like garbage? What if we lose but he plays great? Sorry, but to me this a very arbitrary line in the sand.

At this point he has checked as many boxes as could be expected. Will he end up being a HOF QB? Absolutely no idea. But we could go through an awful lot of QBs and years and years of frustration looking fro someone better and it's extremely unlikely we will find that "sure fire" HOF QB. Did anyone know these HOF QBs were going to the HOF after 1.5 seasons of starting? That's what it seems people want. Well, if he is not a perfect QB and a clear sure fire HOF, we can do better! 

It's clear he has a very good command of this offense and with a little help from the run game this offense could be crazy scary. Right now he gives us a chance to win every game we go into against any team in the league. What more do you want out of a QB?

Need to pay the man and continue building around him. Anything else is makes no sense.  

 

Great post.

The ESPN Hot Take crowd has just gotten so obsessed with winning Super Bowls and people feed into that thinking it's the only measure of success.  The narrative has shifted in a way that a career doesn't mean anything unless someone has a ring, which is bull****.  Or that a QB can overcome any obstacle and make up for inefficiencies and holes with their team by sheer willpower and athletic genius.  

Sure, some of that can happen but we just saw Kirk lose a game after throwing over 50 times for 449 yards, 3 scores and no picks.  If he does that in a playoff game or a Superbowl and we lose are people going to **** and whine that he didn't do enough to win?  

It's a team game, it's team sports.  While the QB plays a tremendous part in what a Super Bowl winning team does, the pieces all must be in order around him to make it work.  

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

With all due respect the bolded part is what destroys your own setting of this line in the sand that Kirk must cross. Are you really telling me that a few seasons in, you would not have wanted Dan Marino to be your starting QB? I would find that very hard to believe.

I don't think it was a question of comparing the two QB. I was just asked if I thought marino's career was considered a failure.

But when you did reference Jim Kelly, I'm pretty sure if the skins went to 4 straight SB and lost then all there would be a mass suicide of posters here.

Lastly, The GB game, no it was clearly not on him, but, once again, red zone deficiencies and an inability to put teams away early really began in that game and for the most part has been a continuing problem this year. Also, a lot of his yards/completions came in second half with the game out of reach and the Pack playing a prevent style defense. Let's not fool ourselves, this game was lost when we as a team were unable to put the game away early despite so many glorious chances.

[PartyPosse]

31 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

The ESPN Hot Take crowd has just gotten so obsessed with winning Super Bowls and people feed into that thinking it's the only measure of success.  The narrative has shifted in a way that a career doesn't mean anything unless someone has a ring, which is bull****.

It's only about winning. You may have a different perspective but in my mind success does hinge on whether or not we win it all.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Thirtyfive2seven said:

You give Kirk Cousins a halfway decent defense and it's game over.  Do you all NOT remember RGIII and his inability to put up any points or even move the ball.  Back then if the Redskins scored 20+ points this entire forum would throw a damn party.  Now you have a QB capable of dropping 20+ pts in a quarter and the defense can't get off the field or stop ANYBODY.

Go back and re-read some of your own comments about the Redskins offense from back then.  Heck, throw in Campbell, Ramsey and several other awful QB's over the past 10 seasons for that matter.

In some respects, you may be right. However, a better defense isn't going to solve our red zone issues.

[Spaceman Spiff]

14 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

It's only about winning. You may have a different perspective but in my mind success does hinge on whether or not we win it all.

I agree, it's only about winning, too.  But when it comes to judging athletes I think you've lost some perspective on how much one player can impose his will on the outcome of the game.  

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I agree, it's only about winning, too.  But when it comes to judging athletes I think you've lost some perspective on how much one player can impose his will on the outcome of the game.  

I agree, but here is the other way I look at it. Because the NFL is a capped league, there is only a finite amount of money a team can spend to field an entire roster. Obviously some players/positions are more valuable than others but when you allocate 17% (roughly 25 mil a year on a 160 mil cap) to one player then you are decreasing your ability to build a better team around whether through FA or even keeping your own players. Marino and even Kelly never played in an era where one position like that crippled a team's cap position as drastically as it does now because, obviously, salaries have increased exponentially, especially in the last 10 years or so. With the Dolphins of the 80s/90s, the inability to field a competitive roster on both sides of the ball was not due in any way to the amount of money Marino made. It's just an inability to scout good players. The same can't be said today. Brees is a prime example. Good or bad, he got greedy and caused the saints to have to diminish the quality on both sides of the ball (not to mention forced them to trade Graham).

i do think cousins has that ability to impose his will on a game and influence it significantly, all in saying is that in an era where cap is key and one player is asking for close to 20% of the entire pie for a long period of time, the team better be DAMN sure that he's more than just a regular season stat collector because I guarantee that act will get old around here real fast.

[Rskins06]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

You had me until that last statement. You mean the Greg Williams who just had 49 dropped on them? The same Greg Williams who's HC has used almost every significant draft pick in the last 5 yrs on D, including a few extra 1s from us, and still can't get into the top 10 in scoring D?

The level of talent on the Rams D vs. ours is not even close. Yet we are 18th in scoring and they are tied for 12th. Williams can stay right where he is, with his loser HC getting their asses kicked on a regular basis.

Scot will address the D this offseason. I am very excited to see how it comes together. Having said that, we are far from done this year.

OK, you got me.  What I was implying was the era where our Defense was consistently top 10 (even top5) and the offense was no where near effective as this one.

Agreed, we are no where done this year.  This team is dangerous.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

You Wade the one year wonder? Wade comes in and has one good season then his Ds decline, and fairly quickly. After lasts years great D for 1 yr, it is no where near the same D. Did you watch last night? KC just put up 30 on them. What they needed a stop in the 4th Q and OT they could not get it. They let a KC team without much of a running game (Charles is out), pretty much do what they wanted.

I know this is not popular around here, but the book is not closed on Barry. I know some are certain they know more about Ds than Barry does, But I am certain he has forgotten more than you will ever know.

Taking shots at Wade and defending Barry in one post?  That's hilarious.  And did you watch the KC game?  Denver's defense was stout.  Both defenses were stout, but got tired out as the game wore on due to lack of offense on both sides.   

I want Todd Bowles to come to DC in the worst way.  I think his style of defense is a perfect complement to what we're trying to do on offense.  

  

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

I agree, but here is the other way I look at it. Because the NFL is a capped league, there is only a finite amount of money a team can spend to field an entire roster. Obviously some players/positions are more valuable than others but when you allocate 17% (roughly 25 mil a year on a 160 mil cap) to one player then you are decreasing your ability to build a better team around whether through FA or even keeping your own players. Marino and even Kelly never played in an era where one position like that crippled a team's cap position as drastically as it does now because, obviously, salaries have increased exponentially, especially in the last 10 years or so. With the Dolphins of the 80s/90s, the inability to field a competitive roster on both sides of the ball was not due in any way to the amount of money Marino made. It's just an inability to scout good players. The same can't be said today. Brees is a prime example. Good or bad, he got greedy and caused the saints to have to diminish the quality on both sides of the ball (not to mention forced them to trade Graham).

i do think cousins has that ability to impose his will on a game and influence it significantly, all in saying is that in an era where cap is key and one player is asking for close to 20% of the entire pie for a long period of time, the team better be DAMN sure that he's more than just a regular season stat collector.

 

That makes some sense but you're also overlooking the pressure from the NFLPA to keep salaries high.  Say if Brees took a significantly less salaried position to stay in NO, there'd be a lot of players out there PISSED because he just threw the comps out of whack.  All of a sudden the market for top flight QBs would be down.  To the athletes, the NFL is a brotherhood, almost more than anything.  Players want to see other players get paid because they know that if they put up similar stats, they'll get that money too, maybe even more.  I bet Brees signs a contract like that not only for himself but due to what it can do for others as well.  

But back in the day, the QBs were still always the highest paid and while teams didn't have caps they also still had budgets.  IIRC, Marino became the games highest paid player in 91 or 92 taking over the spot from Joe Montana...guess which one of the two had rings?

Even if he does turn into a regular season stat collector, odds are he's still giving this team a chance to win each Sunday which is all you can ask for.  Playoffs are almost a bit of a crap shoot.  Unless he's going out in the playoffs and laying eggs all over the place, throwing for below 60% completion and terrible picks in terrible situations, he'll be fine in the playoffs.  

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I want Todd Bowles to come to DC in the worst way.  I think his style of defense is a perfect complement to what we're trying to do on offense.  

Eh, I'm sorta disappointed with how his defense has played considering the talent he's got upfront. They don't tackle well, haven't been able to get any sort of pressure of QBs (like 3rd to last in sacks) and don't turn the ball over. I expected more. Most people did.

[Spaceman Spiff]

7 minutes ago, Rskins06 said:

OK, you got me.  What I was implying was the era where our Defense was consistently top 10 (even top5) and the offense was no where near effective as this one.

Agreed, we are no where done this year.  This team is dangerous.

If by dangerous you mean having the defense on the field with a small lead late in the 4th quarter, I agree.  This team is dangerous as ****.