elkabong82 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 20 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: Getting drafted by the Redskins slowed Kirk's development in my opinion. Disagree. If we don't draft him he goes to a team later in the 4th or possibly the 5th and sitting behind a vet. Cousins could easily have stayed a career back up in that circumstance. There have been plenty of good, talented QBs that never had their number called and were stuck as back ups. Heck, there have been some that got their shot, did well, but then went to a new team on a bigger deal only to flounder under a new system. It's been much rarer that a late round QB becomes a legit starter in the NFL. In fact, being drafted with another rookie QB, who's skill-set required mobility in a league where truly mobile QBs don't last, may have been one of his best shots other than if he were drafted to be the heir-apparent to an aging, soon-to-retire vet. But 31 teams had the chance to take him in the first 3 rounds for that purpose. In 2012, that situation was only hard for Kirk and nobody else. That 2012 team likely goes to the Superbowl if RG3 stays healthy. That's right, I said it. Even Seattle had no answers to stopping us in the playoff before Robert got hurt. Robert and Kirk are completely different types of QBs. If not for his injury, RG3 was truly special and an elite QB in his own right. Kirk is obviously superior as the traditional drop-back guy, but when he was healthy and in Shanahan's read-option system, RG3 was elite. Too many fans overlook that and treat him with disdain (he does have some headcase issues, not gonna lie), I prefer to be glad for 2012 and simply lament that his injury ended a great career way too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 18 hours ago, PartyPosse said: I know you and I have gone back and forth on this and I'm def more on the Cousins bandwagon than I was before but come on. It's not like he wasn't given opportunities in the years prior to 2015 and just didn't take advantage of it. Granted obviously it takes time to develop a rapport with your teammates but Kirk i'm sure was aware that RG3 was drafted with EVERY intent on being the longterm starter and it was gonna take either an epic RG3 collapse or an unreal performance by Kirk to win the job.But he definitely didn't do enough throughout his rookie contract to justify earning a massive contract after a half season of good play. Balonely! When Cousins got the opportunity to play in 2012, 2013 & 2014 he consistently demonstrated ability and aptitude for running a pro offense unlike the other QB who when occasionally healthy could run a high school 1 read option system but was overwhelmed utterly useless in a pro style offense. It was obvious both coaching staffs clearly perceived that Cousins was the talented one. It didn't matter how well Cousins played in 2012, 21013 or 2014 because the job was not subject to competition. Even in 2015 the QB job wasn't open to competition. Gruden it is was but was forced to walk that pronouncement back within days. The 3 first round and 1 second round pick was going to play when able to dress. The ownership and many fans may have been taken in for 3 years but not the coaches. It was evident the Shannys and the current staff understood the score early on, JG and SM finally put and end to the nonsense before it ended their Redskin careers. The key event was SM's shrewd decision to put the other guy on the clock by exercising the 5 year option which created a $16M hazard that Snyder couldn't ignore. I got excited when the Skins made that move in the spring of 2014 because I was certain it would end the folly in 2014 because the Skins wouldn't want risk a 16M injury and that's the way it workout. Mike Shanahan's NFL career was ended by the other guy while Cousins is propelling Jay Gruden's. Cousins, Gruden and SM might be here for a decade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Shanahan's career was ruined by his own ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 I have to say... If you're going to use initials then use initials. Don't go back and forth between initials and full names in the same post. It's confusing and it gives me a headache. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 21 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: Getting drafted by the Redskins slowed Kirk's development in my opinion. That's fair as long as you also include every other NFL team in there because no 4th or 5th round QB is going to get a shot right out of the gate. Kirk would have sat down for a few years regardless of who drafted him. I actually believe that this is a perfect offense for Kirk. It's quite serendipitous the way this all played out for him and us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said: The key event was SM's shrewd decision to put the other guy on the clock by exercising the 5 year option which created a $16M hazard that Snyder couldn't ignore. I got excited when the Skins made that move in the spring of 2014 because I was certain it would end the folly in 2014 because the Skins wouldn't want risk a 16M injury and that's the way it workout. That's a great point for all those who don't think Cousins was Scotty's guy since he got there. but the rest I'll respectfully disagree with. Kirk had his moments no doubt and I don't know how many of his poor turnovers were a result of lack of playing time, but, in both 2013 and 2014 when he had real opportunity to steal the number 1 job (and don't fool yourself, if he would have seized the opportunity they wouldn't have gone back to RG3) and both times he inexplicably regressed the more he started and the more that defenses were able to plan for his game. It's not like RG3 took the job back in 2014. Colt freakin McCoy ended up coming in because of kirk's ineffectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, illone said: I actually believe that this is a perfect offense for Kirk. I believe Kirk could step into most any NFL offense and run it well after a year. 32 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Colt freakin McCoy ended up coming in because of kirk's ineffectiveness. Kirk threw for 1700 yards in 1/3rd of the 2014 season. If Gruden hadn't benched him, he would have set the franchise record for passing yards that year. Interceptions too probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, Tsailand said: Kirk threw for 1700 yards in 1/3rd of the 2014 season. If Gruden hadn't benched him, he would have set the franchise records for passing yards that year. Interceptions too probably And that's my point. The first 2 games he started he had a 5/1 TD-INT ratio and then went 5/8 the other 4. He was able to move the ball no doubt but those INTs were as demoralizing as a three and out. Blake Bortles has been putting up huge yardage numbers the last couple years but he's been on the hot seat because of everything else. 2013 he was just awful but the team was so I don't put that on him at all, but to say he wasn't given a chance is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 10 hours ago, PartyPosse said: And that's my point. The first 2 games he started he had a 5/1 TD-INT ratio and then went 5/8 the other 4. He was able to move the ball no doubt but those INTs were as demoralizing as a three and out. Blake Bortles has been putting up huge yardage numbers the last couple years but he's been on the hot seat because of everything else. 2013 he was just awful but the team was so I don't put that on him at all, but to say he wasn't given a chance is absurd. If you want to believe Cousins record breaking 2015 season surprisingly appeared out of the mist so be it but some like me recognized his talent as early as 2012 Cleveland game and every appearance since he flashed his extraordinarily talent for stretches. It always shocked me that his critics in 2013, 2014 and early 2015 who couldn't imagine Cousins learning how to perform at a high level and keep it on the rails for 4 quarters instead of three quarters were so persistent in their belief that the other guy who failed to demonstrate any aptitude whatsoever for the pro style offense was certain to develop into a great QB if given enough time and the right coaching. Nevertheless that's the way it was for 3 1/2 years in DC until Cousins hammered his stunned critics into remission until opening day 2016 with a tremendous second half of his first year starting. He is in the process of delivering a repeat and perhaps an improvement over 2015 and once again his critics are disappearing like the autumn leaves as we get into December. I always thought he could learn to do it consistently because he could do it so incredibly well for long stretches from the very start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said: I have to say... If you're going to use initials then use initials. Don't go back and forth between initials and full names in the same post. It's confusing and it gives me a headache. Carry on. Oll Korrect, NP...errr..OK, No problem..but let's just keep this discussion only about our National Football League Wa. Redskins..oops...I meant our NFL DC Skins...ummm our Redskins..versus AZ...etc. etcetera etc...OMG!...vs. Arizona...Oh My ****ing G** I can't stop...can not stop.....****, sorry...look, its obvious that I either have a low IQ...FFS...Intelligent Quotia..or I probably need to quit mixin' my Rx with alcohol ...that's what got me fired from the Young Men's Christian Association...which was BS...I meant Bull****!..SMH....Listen, I realize that I shouldn't be Laughing out Loud right now.. but the YMCA incident happened many years ago ...I believe it happened in late 2014AD or early 2015 Anno Domini...anyhow, I faithfully attended all of the court ordered AA meetings...BTW I don't remember too much of the actual Alcoholics Anonymous meetings per se b/c I was FUBAR...lol at any rate, my case was nol. pros....nolle prosequi....WTF is wrong with me??!!...I just need to STFU, step AFK and GTFO...sheesh...my SNAFU!! /Oh, and Post Script, I'm having a party at 8 post meridian, every1 is invited...just répondez s'il vous plaît me plz, along w/ your E.T.A.....and BYOB..TY...oops..Thank You! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natty Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 To the fine people on here who want to compare Cousins with Flacco. Well shucks, the Ravens traded away all Flacco's receivers after he signed a $100 million contract. Note to Redskins...Don't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Joe Flacco reminds me so much of Jason Candle. That long wind up is annoying. Kirk is light years better than Flacco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 On 11/30/2016 at 9:45 PM, Veryoldschool said: Getting drafted by the Redskins slowed Kirk's development in my opinion. Incorrect. Drafting RG3 slowed Kirk's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Sounds like Kirk has earned a spot in the Taken Out Of Context thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 I wonder if people mean to use the term "development" when talking about Cousins and being drafted by the Redskins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 6 hours ago, zskins said: Incorrect. Drafting RG3 slowed Kirk's development. Very true, imagine if the Skins had just picked Cousins in 2012 and invested the 3 firsts and a second picks wisely. More recently if SM hadn't exercised the 16M 5th year option and then put is foot down with Snyder Cousins would taking over the starting job some other franchise where the best players start as a norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: Very true, imagine if the Skins had just picked Cousins in 2012 and invested the 3 firsts and a second picks wisely. More recently if SM hadn't exercised the 16M 5th year option and then put is foot down with Snyder Cousins would taking over the starting job some other franchise where the best players start as a norm. Nothing to support Kirk didn't benefit or suffer from not having the franchise given to him right away. Fact: Kirk has developed greatly as a Redskin over his career and been given multiple opportunities before finally "getting it". Lastly, who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 8 hours ago, zskins said: Incorrect. Drafting RG3 slowed Kirk's development. hahahahahaha. So true. Not to mention our ability to pick some high quality D players with all those picks we gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Kirk? The man's a menace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 5 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: Very true, imagine if the Skins had just picked Cousins in 2012 and invested the 3 firsts and a second picks wisely. More recently if SM hadn't exercised the 16M 5th year option and then put is foot down with Snyder Cousins would taking over the starting job some other franchise where the best players start as a norm. I could get along with you if not for this ****ty oline we had back then... What was that? Trent. Licht - Monty - Chester - Polumbus? Something like that? That was freaking scary. Now an interesting fact is that Kirk is the only guy left on our roster from that 2012 Draft... Isn't that even scarier? Anyway, what you're saying is like saying "What if Green Bay traded Favre right after getting Rodgers and started him right away?" That doesn't work like that. We had our bunch of young promising QB getting killed by crappy OL, just like Patrick Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 hours ago, wit33 said: Nothing to support Kirk didn't benefit or suffer from not having the franchise given to him right away. Fact: Kirk has developed greatly as a Redskin over his career and been given multiple opportunities before finally "getting it". Last 32 games. 57tds. 9400yds. 99 Rating. Griffin was in the way, Kirk "got it" almost immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 4 hours ago, wit33 said: Fact: Kirk has developed greatly as a Redskin over his career and been given multiple opportunities before finally "getting it". Fact: Kirk had to hire his own personal QB coach in-season because the Redskins were not developing him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 i still dont understand why any redskins continue to fight about the past when we have a promising future. I swear someone love to talk about the misery years here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.