RedBeast Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 14 minutes ago, skinfan2k said: i still dont understand why any redskins continue to fight about the past when we have a promising future. I swear someone love to talk about the misery years here Its RG3s fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 1 hour ago, skinfan2k said: i still dont understand why any redskins continue to fight about the past when we have a promising future. I swear someone love to talk about the misery years here It's because there are a **** ton of miserable people posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Tsailand said: Fact: Kirk had to hire his own personal QB coach in-season because the Redskins were not developing him at all. Please tell me you're not referring to the brother of the head coach. Fact: Due to off-season rules the coaching staff cannot "coach" player during certain portions. Are you making the point that Gruden and staff should receive little to no credit for his development? Laughable man. In my opinion, Kirk has been treated well by the organization, as it relates to a 4th round QB (not many get all chances he's received). To his credit, he's proved to be some one worth building around. A win for all. I just cant get with his poor Kirk stuff. 4 hours ago, TimmySmith said: Last 32 games. 57tds. 9400yds. 99 Rating. Griffin was in the way, Kirk "got it" almost immediately. Or Griffin shouldering the franchise expectations for 3 years (Not in a good way, but it enabled Kirk to grind behind the scenes without any pressure) was a positive for Kirk. Kirk got it immediately, whaaaat... crazy talk man. I'm a supporter of Kirk, but this is a lie, plain and simple. I guess it will come down to what you determine as "almost immediately". Kirk himself has admitted to needing to overcome struggles with Ints and allowing it to impact future throws. Kirk is awesome today, no doubt, but he's had to improve to get to this place. Go kirk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srtman04 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, wit33 said: Please tell me you're not referring to the brother of the head coach. Fact: Due to off-season rules the coaching staff cannot "coach" player during certain portions. Are you making the point that Gruden and staff should receive little to no credit for his development? Laughable man. In my opinion, Kirk has been treated well by the organization, as it relates to a 4th round QB (not many get all chances he's received). To his credit, he's proved to be some one worth building around. A win for all. I just cant get with his poor Kirk stuff. Or Griffin shouldering the franchise expectations for 3 years (Not in a good way, but it enabled Kirk to grind behind the scenes without any pressure) was a positive for Kirk. Kitk got got it immediately, whaaaat... crazy talk man. I'm a supporter of Kirk, but this is a lie, plain and simple. I guess it will come down to what you determine as "almost immediately". Kirk himself has admitted to needing to overcome struggles with Ints and allowing it to impact future throws. Kirk is awesome today, no doubt, but he's had to improve to get to this place. Go kirk! Everyone in the history of this game has to be improve to become the best. I never understand why people use this logic to justify their points.....the man is good and he is going to get better. The trend is up, not down. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, wit33 said: Please tell me you're not referring to the brother of the head coach. No. http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/cousins-says-personal-qb-coach-helped-him-refine-his-game-last-year Demoted to the Redskins’ No. 3 quarterback by Coach Jay Gruden, Cousins turned to Jeff Christensen, a former NFL signal caller and the president and CEO of Chicago-based Throw It Deep quarterback academy, to help him polish his skills. Cousins worked with Christensen on his own time after the team’s practice had concluded. At the time, the Redskins did not have a dedicated quarterbacks coach on staff. 5 minutes ago, wit33 said: Fact: Due to off-season rules the coaching staff cannot "coach" player during certain portions. Fact: This was the middle of the 2014 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 RG3 hired his own QB coach too. Peyton Manning always went to David Cutcliffe for private instruction. Its not a surprise that while RG3 was here, the brunt of this team's development resource time was going to be spent on him. I don't think Cousins takes that personally nor will he use it against them in contract talks, and I don't think it hurt his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 8 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said: hahahahahaha. So true. Not to mention our ability to pick some high quality D players with all those picks we gave up. Eh...this is a lot of hindsight. Sure, now that we've seen that Kirk has grown into a very good NFL QB we can look back and say that we should have just picked some other positions earlier to bolster our D. But we didn't know that at the time (and didn't even know it until the second half of last season), and it isn't like Shanny picked him right after we got RG3. He was still a 4th rounder. We and 31 other teams passed on him multiple times. I'm sure Shanny liked him but he obviously still didn't value the pick until the 4th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 39 minutes ago, Tsailand said: No. http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/cousins-says-personal-qb-coach-helped-him-refine-his-game-last-year Demoted to the Redskins’ No. 3 quarterback by Coach Jay Gruden, Cousins turned to Jeff Christensen, a former NFL signal caller and the president and CEO of Chicago-based Throw It Deep quarterback academy, to help him polish his skills. Cousins worked with Christensen on his own time after the team’s practice had concluded. At the time, the Redskins did not have a dedicated quarterbacks coach on staff. Fact: This was the middle of the 2014 season. I'm m not sure what your point is. This is common place, QBs working with their guys. Is the point Kirk is the player he is because of Jeff Christenson and himself? Im not a part of the Redskin organization, but it's my belief Gruden and Mcvay have and continue to assist Kirk in his development as a QB and how it to most effectively run the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 54 minutes ago, srtman04 said: Everyone in the history of this game has to be improve to become the best. I never understand why people use this logic to justify their points.....the man is good and he is going to get better. The trend is up, not down. Enjoy. Did I use this logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Remember RG3 was our first rounder and we were the 6th worst team in the NFL. And then we proceeded to trade away first round picks for the next 3 years plus the cap penalty which certainly hurt. cousins was the benefactor of a team that had allowed the 2nd rounders and down to develop into competent players (Moses, Long) and was also the benefactor of drafting a guard at 5. The best thing that could have happened to Kirk is sitting on the bench, allowing Griffin to take his lumps while the team slowly came together piece by piece. To say RG3 slowed Kirk's development is ridiculous considering if Kirk would have started from day 1, I don't think he's even on the team now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 10 hours ago, wit33 said: Fact: Kirk has developed greatly as a Redskin over his career and been given multiple opportunities before finally "getting it". 5 hours ago, Tsailand said: Fact: Kirk had to hire his own personal QB coach in-season because the Redskins were not developing him at all. 1 hour ago, wit33 said: I'm m not sure what your point is. This is common place, QBs working with their guys. 1. The team badly mishandled Kirk for three years, not to mention mishandling his contract situation after year four. Claiming otherwise is pure revisionism. 2. There will not be a hometown discount, because of (1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 13 minutes ago, Tsailand said: 1. The team badly mishandled Kirk for three years, not to mention mishandling his contract situation after year four. Claiming otherwise is pure revisionism. 2. There will not be a hometown discount, because of (1) You're letting your personal opinion of Kirk impact discussion about how a team handled a 4th round pick. The Skins could've washed their hands with him after struggling with Ints and more importantly mentally (Not recovering from mistakes made in games) with the position. He was given the keys to the franchise in his 4th year. Started the first year off rough and received strong support the coaching staff. In his 4th year he struggled a bit, what makes you think in year 1,2 or 3 it would've been better. Kirk has zero interest in signing a team friendly deal from reports I've heard. This narrative the team didn't want to pay him isn't true: Kirk and his reps wanted more than the Skins were offering, but the Skins did offer. Kirk has proved to be right. I'm sure the Skins are willing to meet Kirks demands from last year lol. Pay Kirk! Go Kirk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 12 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: Very true, imagine if the Skins had just picked Cousins in 2012 and invested the 3 firsts and a second picks wisely. More recently if SM hadn't exercised the 16M 5th year option and then put is foot down with Snyder Cousins would taking over the starting job some other franchise where the best players start as a norm. This is why credit to Shanny for drafting Cousins comes with an asterisk IMO. Shanny had full control and gave up the farm for RG3. To his credit, if not for the injury I'm firmly convinced RG3 leads Shanny's team to a Lombardi in one of his first few seasons. But the move didn't work out. But it led us to Gruden, Scot, and Cousins as starter so it may have worked out for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsMayne Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I think signing kirk to the franchise tag last year was 100% the right move, so i dont think the contract was mishandled at all (obviously, now we all wished we had of locked him up last year, since it would have been cheaper). This year, I can see the franchise tag being in play again. No doubt he is going to want top top dollar, so why not pay him one more time and next year if he has a down year save some money, and if not, well you havn't lost anything away) This year is a lot trickier than last year regarding what the "right" thing to do is, but I think letting him walk or signing in to an "exclusive" contract would be a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 35 minutes ago, Tsailand said: 1. The team badly mishandled Kirk for three years, not to mention mishandling his contract situation after year four. Claiming otherwise is pure revisionism. 2. There will not be a hometown discount, because of (1) He was the back-up for 3 years. That's not badly mishandling. Your claim can only be made now, looking back with the benefit of hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 He should have been the starter. Some of us took a lot less than three years to figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Tsailand said: He should have been the starter. Some of us took a lot less than three years to figure that out. Lol, And there it is, how good does that feel to you? This statement is exactly why a lot of the chatter continues on this board. Its over man, Kirk supporters represent the majority. Go Kirk! Am I allowed to root for him yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 On 11/30/2016 at 9:27 AM, CTskin said: Maybe it's just me, but the Cousins draft pick moment was like a "where were you when (insert historical event during your lifetime)." I don't mean that because it's anywhere as relevant in the grand scheme, but just that it was such a shock. I was 100% against it and wanted Shanny's head. Boy have I changed my tune. That's a "told ya so" I'll gladly accept. Yep I was in the Redskins store at FedEx for the draft party looking for some shirts. I was there to see the new savior in the flesh that afternoon. People in the store were stunned when the pick came across the TV in there, some even booed. We couldn't believe it. Now, we couldn't be more thankful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Ah the memories of that pick. For those needing a refresher. Welcome to the Washington Redskins Kirk cousins thread 2012 Draft Day thread picked up at Kirk Cousins Pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 4 hours ago, elkabong82 said: This is why credit to Shanny for drafting Cousins comes with an asterisk IMO. Shanny had full control and gave up the farm for RG3. To his credit, if not for the injury I'm firmly convinced RG3 leads Shanny's team to a Lombardi in one of his first few seasons. But the move didn't work out. But it led us to Gruden, Scot, and Cousins as starter so it may have worked out for the better. No one believes Shanny wanted the RGIII deal. He warned Snyder but failed to talk Snyder out of it. If Shanny's son wasn't on the payroll too Shanny might have put his foot down and prevented this huge blunder. If not for an injury? You make it sound like him getting injured was a random event instead of an inevitability because of his limited skill set, judgement and build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Tsailand said: He should have been the starter. Some of us took a lot less than three years to figure that out. Shame your extraordinary talents of scouting are wasted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 7 hours ago, Tsailand said: He should have been the starter. Some of us took a lot less than three years to figure that out. He should have immediately been the starter in 2012 despite being a 4th round pick? Or do you mean he should have been named the permanent starter after struggling mightily with turnovers and mental issues and being inconsistent and pretty much mediocre before the second half of last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 1 minute ago, mistertim said: He should have immediately been the starter in 2012 despite being a 4th round pick? Or do you mean he should have been named the permanent starter after struggling mightily with turnovers and mental issues and being inconsistent and pretty much mediocre before the second half of last season? I won't comment either way on the other poster's argument, but I will point out that Kirk has been putting up big yardage throughout his career. In 4 full games played in 2013-14, he had 2 300+ yard games. He put up big yardage and TD #s in 2014. I won't say that he should've started right away, but he certainly showed potential right away. The issues you described were definitely present, but they always struck me as being correctable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Good lord...by the time I check on this thread again, Cousins will have sewn his own game jerseys by hand because the Redskins gave all the extra jerseys to Griffin lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 9 hours ago, Tsailand said: 1. The team badly mishandled Kirk for three years, not to mention mishandling his contract situation after year four. Claiming otherwise is pure revisionism. 2. There will not be a hometown discount, because of (1) 1. Totally crap. They handled it the best they come, and went all in on him last year. Claiming that Kirk was the best from the beginning is plain revisionism. That's a competitive environment, all the players know that. If Kirk expected to start over Griffin in 2012, then he's the one that mishandled the situation. 2. There's no Hometown discount on your first big contract, because NFL career is short. You may do a hometown discount on your 2nd or 3rd signing with the same team (not counting the rookie contract to make it clear). 8 hours ago, Tsailand said: He should have been the starter. Some of us took a lot less than three years to figure that out. Not even close. Haven't you seen the 2012 season? Robert was just killing everyone. 4 hours ago, PCS said: Ah the memories of that pick. For those needing a refresher. Welcome to the Washington Redskins Kirk cousins thread 2012 Draft Day thread picked up at Kirk Cousins Pick Ah! Thanks for the memories PCS! But I was thinking for about this threads as well. There's some great nuggets in there! http://es.redskins.com/topic/383407-es-game-day-coverage-game-day-thread-redskins-at-cardnials/?page=94 http://es.redskins.com/topic/382819-why-is-kirk-cousins-an-interception-machine/ http://es.redskins.com/topic/383720-who-which-qb-should-get-the-most-snaps-this-week/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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