Conn Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 20 hours ago, Wildbunny said: Back up qb is always the post popular position on any NFL roster unless your starting qb is Tom Brady. Ehhh even then Patriots fans spent 3 or 4 straight years in love with the idea (the inevitability in their eyes) of getting a 1st or 2nd rounder for Ryan Mallett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Ehhh even then Patriots fans spent 3 or 4 straight years in love with the idea (the inevitability in their eyes) of getting a 1st or 2nd rounder for Ryan Mallett. Ehhh even then Patriots fans spent 3 or 4 straight years in love with the idea (the inevitability in their eyes) of getting a 1st or 2nd rounder for Ryan Mallett. Ehhh even then Patriots fans spent 3 or 4 straight years in love with the idea (the inevitability in their eyes) of getting a 1st or 2nd rounder for Ryan Mallett. We got your point the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I am happily eating a ton of crow... and I'll take seconds...gladly. i didn't think KC was the man... in my slight defense, the skins have an awful history of bad saviors, Ramsey, Campbell, beck (lol), griffin.. so I was pretty sure it wasn't going to happen bc they are The skins. but I am on board.. he has more than earned his payday. Hope he doesn't break the bank so they can afford a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 6 hours ago, SWFLSkins said: Burgundy Blog @BurgundyBlog 9h9 hours ago Greg Cosell on Cuz: “He has a good arm, but not a great one. It’s above average.” Then this, interestingly. Don't know who this guy is but velocity is usually what I refer to when I'm talking about arm strength..i.e. how fast does he get the ball from point A to Point B..or how much heat does he put on it...r=d/t... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Pure arm strength is overrated. Once you reach the acceptable NFL baseline(which Cousins has)anything more is often unnecessary. Many times the QBs with the strongest arms struggle more because they try to force throws. Stafford is having a great year this year because he hasn't been just rifling it but putting more touch and being more of a precision passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Pure arm strength is overrated. Once you reach the acceptable NFL baseline(which Cousins has)anything more is often unnecessary. Many times the QBs with the strongest arms struggle more because they try to force throws. Stafford is having a great year this year because he hasn't been just rifling it but putting more touch and being more of a precision passer. Oh my God, I hate myself right now because I'm like on this rampage posting this Scot interview from bleacher report everywhere I go, but it's not my fault points keep being made directly related to things he said in there. But, yeah, he pretty much said the same thing here (more about the intangibles versus arm strength/physical skills): Quote B/R: This is part of my point. The quarterback has to be able to lead. He has to be able to command the huddle and tell people what to do. But he also has to encourage and give up some of himself in the process. SM: You're right. The thing about the quarterback—and me and Ted Thompson were talking about it today—the position of quarterback, it's so hard to identify who can and can't. There are so many guys, especially in this year's draft, that have good physical skills. They're big guys who can throw it. But it's not about that anymore. That's important. You have to have a guy who can put it on down 55, 60 yards on a dime. B/R: Of course, there are requisite physical skills you have to have, but the intangibles have to be off the charts. SM: The ones who do it well. I mean, look at Peyton, look at [Tom] Brady, look at [Brett] Favre, look at Wilson. They are all leaders. They are football players. It's just a thing because players identify players. They can pick out good guys, bad guys, leaders. You see in the follow up question there how he mentions guys like Peyton and Brady, who aren't these physical specimens with elite arms necessarily, but how it's about the other things they do. He mentions Wilson as well which actually makes sense because coming out of college the book on him in the mainstream media was that he was too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 45 minutes ago, Stefanskins said: Don't know who this guy is but velocity is usually what I refer to when I'm talking about arm strength..i.e. how fast does he get the ball from point A to Point B..or how much heat does he put on it Ok, it's not fair if you are going to go all physics on us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 55 minutes ago, Stefanskins said: Don't know who this guy is but velocity is usually what I refer to when I'm talking about arm strength..i.e. how fast does he get the ball from point A to Point B..or how much heat does he put on it...r=d/t... For me, arm strength was about both velocity and how well a QB can keep that velocity when throwing only with his arm...not with his legs, hips and butt as well. If the guy can throw it 40 yards downfield on a rope while basically standing still...or with all sorts of bad mechanics going on. I remember how people were getting all crazy over how Michael Vick could send the ball 50 yards on a rope just by "flicking his wrist". I thought it was an obvious exaggeration to make a point, until I saw him do just that lol...well, at least look like he just flicked his wrist. After seeing QBs have to step into their throws with a solid base and put their bodies behind throws like that, seeing a guy bootleg out of the pocket and kinda just flick the ball halfway downfield--and on target--really stood out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: For me, arm strength was about both velocity and how well a QB can keep that velocity when throwing only with his arm...not with his legs, hips and butt as well. If the guy can throw it 40 yards downfield on a rope while basically standing still...or with all sorts of bad mechanics going on. I remember how people were getting all crazy over how Michael Vick could send the ball 50 yards on a rope just by "flicking his wrist". I thought it was an obvious exaggeration to make a point, until I saw him do just that lol...well, at least look like he just flicked his wrist. After seeing QBs have to step into their throws with a solid base and put their bodies behind throws like that, seeing a guy bootleg out of the pocket and kinda just flick the ball halfway downfield--and on target--really stood out. This is exactly how I see it, as well. The rest of this isn't directed at you as it wasn't the point you were making... But what's interesting though is that guys like Brady, Brees and Manning have shown that it doesn't necessarily matter as much as we think. Or as much as many used to think. It's nice if you can have that, but what's more important is their ability to lead, command of the offense, and mastery of the opposing defense. If they're technically sound more often than not and getting rid of the ball quickly, it pretty much nullifies the fact that they can't launch a dime 60 yards down the field while off balance or on the move. Most of the time QBs end up having to use that skill is because the offense itself is failing, or they are themselves. For instance, Rodgers having to essentially play the entire time (using that physical asset) like he has this season isn't necessarily a good thing as we've seen. He's been at his best in the past when the offense itself was efficient and he was getting rid of the ball on time, with those type of plays sprinkled in. So it's a very good physical asset to have, but not a necessary one. The other intangibles are way more important and it's why it's so hard for scouts to identify QBs, as Scot alluded to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said: This is exactly how I see it, as well. The rest of this isn't directed at you as it wasn't the point you were making... But what's interesting though is that guys like Brady, Brees and Manning have shown that it doesn't necessarily matter as much as we think. Or as much as many used to think. Shoot, Todd Collins showed that back in 2007 lol...you could time his passes longer than 15 yards with a calendar. But he really made the offense click and score points. And I, for one, think Cousins has more than enough arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 well damn...already outta likes n' the game hasn't even started...ugggghh these late games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 11 minutes ago, Stefanskins said: Meanwhile, back in Crazy Chip Kelly land...Kaepernick's stat line through 3 quarters: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Barbour Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Like I mentioned 10 paged back before the Packers game. Kirk is tied with a few for 2nd in all time velocity on his throws in NFL Combine History. Ahead of names like... Cam Newton Kaepernick Rodgers RG3 His arm strength has never been a question. I don't see why analysts debate it. I personally think it is something that has been fabricated by the offense style, and Grudens comments about the wind last year or year before. I can't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: For me, arm strength was about both velocity and how well a QB can keep that velocity when throwing only with his arm...not with his legs, hips and butt as well. If the guy can throw it 40 yards downfield on a rope while basically standing still...or with all sorts of bad mechanics going on. Having heard Cosell on the radio in years past, this is how he views arm strength as well. Arm strength is not velocity or distance in a clean situation with perfect mechanics. Arm strength is velocity and distance when your feet are out from under you or you've got someone wrapped around you or you're not able to bring your arm all the way through or other such things. How strong is it when you arm, and basically just your arm, is what's behind the throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 9 minutes ago, William Barbour said: Like I mentioned 10 paged back before the Packers game. Kirk is tied with a few for 2nd in all time velocity on his throws in NFL Combine History. Ahead of names like... Cam Newton Kaepernick Rodgers RG3 His arm strength has never been a question. I don't see why analysts debate it. I personally think it is something that has been fabricated by the offense style, and Grudens comments about the wind last year or year before. I can't remember. When it comes to arm strength, combine velocity means very little, imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 When it comes to "pure arm strength" however, I think sometimes it gets confused with throwing it 60 yards downfield, when that is just one pro of having elite arm strength. Most NFL QB's can throw a deep pass where it needs to be. Whether they can do it with little effort, or have to rev up their arm to do it, they can do it. The difference of arm strength comes into play though in a lot of throws throughout the game whether they are short passes, medium passes, or deep passes. Fitting the ball into tight spaces often has to do with arm strength. Throwing on the run, arm strength. Throwing to WR's in stride can also be attributed to arm strength. I wouldn't call Cousin's arm strength towards the top of the NFL, but he has enough to make just about every throw. Maybe not with as much ease and effortlessly as a some QB's but he can make them. As far as Cousins goes, I have been watching a bunch of games today and I am ready to say Cousins should get paid and paid well by our front office. However, the question that will be pondered going forward is how big do those numbers get before it means he will have to go to work with less playmakers around him. I watch Brees in New Orleans and it's a good example of a QB that is good enough to get his good looking stat line with anyone running routes, however it isn't translating to wins. Once the burden of the team was put on Brees's shoulders the team overall has been in average. I believe that has largely been due to his contract. There are models out there for winning without having a ton of playmakers on offense, but the 'Skins right now are not built like that. I really do wonder if we will see a shift in philosophy if/when Cousins gets his contract. Until this defense is addressed the only way this team is going to consistently win is by scoring a lot of points. Sure, the defense may make a big play every few weeks to seal a game, but overall the burden is on the offense. If Cousins gets paid and you see an exodus of Jackson, Garcon, etc etc.....I wonder if the immediate move to sign Cousins is also going to signal a shift in how we build the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Arm strength is like any other physical tool for me. Theses a baseline needed to be good. After that, any you have beyond that point is good but it's diminishing returns. And other things may be worth more after that baseline than better physicality. it's why you could have two WRs, one a freak athlete and one who's a solid athlete. But if the solid athlete has better ball tracking and route running I'd possibly go with him, because as long as both are at that baseline needed level, those other skills can be more valuable than additionally athletic ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, ZRagone said: Having heard Cosell on the radio in years past, this is how he views arm strength as well. Arm strength is not velocity or distance in a clean situation with perfect mechanics. Arm strength is velocity and distance when your feet are out from under you or you've got someone wrapped around you or you're not able to bring your arm all the way through or other such things. How strong is it when you arm, and basically just your arm, is what's behind the throw. The thing is, those throws tend to be low % even if you have a strong arm, and if your OL does its job and protects the QB they shouldn't have to make those kind of throws anyway(like ours does). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 On November 25, 2016 at 11:00 AM, DM72 said: If Cousins would have beaten Dallas, would Cousins have gotten into the MVP discussion? Here on Extremeskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoMike Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Last two plays against Arizona. Guys wide open. MVP plays there to be made. Poor throws, with game ending INT. Maybe next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, KokoMike said: Last two plays against Arizona. Guys wide open. MVP plays there to be made. Maybe next week. He had immediate and intense pressure in his face both times and basically all day. Still he put up 23 points and over 250 passing yards against the #1 ranked pass D in the league on the road. With even an average D we win this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, KokoMike said: Last two plays against Arizona. Guys wide open. MVP plays there to be made. Poor throws, with game ending INT. Maybe next week. The Cardinals give up 190 passing yards a game. Kirk outperformed that by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 17 minutes ago, KokoMike said: Last two plays against Arizona. Guys wide open. MVP plays there to be made. Poor throws, with game ending INT. Maybe next week. LOLLL you couldn't wait to post this Some of yall are a ****ing trip. 10 minutes ago, redskins59 said: The Cardinals give up 190 passing yards a game. Kirk outperformed that by a mile. Stop making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail2theSkins24 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Kirk balled out today, if you think this **** show is on him, log off. 52 other guys + coaches need to look in the mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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