Kirk Cousins leads NFL in passing yards through Week 8

[Cliffmark1]

Throwing it away also prevents turn overs from low reward/high risk plays. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Kirk's presence in the pocket and knowing when to step up, take a side step, just get rid of the ball has been an amazing improvement from where he was last year and the first few games this year. Its unbelievable, I didnt think something like that could be improved/fixed so quickly. He also does a great job of holding onto the ball when he gets blind side hits/pressure ... the sack fumble from last week notwithstanding. 

[mistertim]

8 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

 

The offensive talent is pretty mediocre. Outside of Scherff, TWill, Reed, Desean and Crowder there isn't a ton of above average talent. Let's not overhype the talent we have here. Granted guys like Moses, Long and Doctson could become special players, but for now they're decent. 

I dunno, man. Reed is an elite pass catching TE, DJax is still an elite deep threat IMO, Crowder is on his way to being an elite slot guy. Garcon is a very good possession and YAC guy, and Vernon Davis is also balling out this year but he's always been a really good TE...he's battled injuries the last couple years though. Our OL has some holes but we have an elite LT, a top notch G in Scherff, and a very good RT in Moses. Our C and LG definitely need upgrades. Either way, we have quite a bit of talent on the O.

[Warhead36]

Says the offensive talent is mediocre....then lists 1/3 of the offensive players that are elite at their positions. LOL.

[PigskinRedskin]

1 hour ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Kirk's presence in the pocket and knowing when to step up, take a side step, just get rid of the ball has been an amazing improvement from where he was last year and the first few games this year. Its unbelievable, I didnt think something like that could be improved/fixed so quickly. He also does a great job of holding onto the ball when he gets blind side hits/pressure ... the sack fumble from last week notwithstanding. 

 

Yeah, he's done a complete 180 in terms of pocket awareness. I remember last year I would always be shouting "MOVE, RUN OUT OF THE POCKET!" or "STEP UP KIRK!" or "THROW IT AWAY!" and either my voice travels extremely well from upstate NY to wherever he's playing and can hear me and thinks "Ah, crap, he's getting on my case again" or he's gotten smarter.

I am excited to see his progression through the off-season again with hopefully, the same system and crew in place. Hopefully Doctson will be ready for the entirety of the camp so they can develop a good partnership. Grab a LG in either the draft or free agency as well as a C and I think Kirk can continue to dominate.

[Warhead36]

The next step for Cousins is to actually just use his legs to pick up easy cheap yards/first downs. He's actually a pretty athletic QB, probably above average among NFL standards, but there are times when he runs out of pressure but instead of just running forward and picking up an easy 5-7 yards he tries to throw and ends up not getting anything.

 

Remember that TD run against Buffalo last year? Or the read option go ahead TD in Detroit earlier? Kirk's got legs, its okay to use them.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Kirk's presence in the pocket and knowing when to step up, take a side step, just get rid of the ball has been an amazing improvement from where he was last year and the first few games this year. Its unbelievable, I didnt think something like that could be improved/fixed so quickly. He also does a great job of holding onto the ball when he gets blind side hits/pressure ... the sack fumble from last week notwithstanding. 

Agreed on this. His pocket awareness has improved drastically.

[Llevron]

40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The next step for Cousins is to actually just use his legs to pick up easy cheap yards/first downs. He's actually a pretty athletic QB, probably above average among NFL standards, but there are times when he runs out of pressure but instead of just running forward and picking up an easy 5-7 yards he tries to throw and ends up not getting anything.

 

Remember that TD run against Buffalo last year? Or the read option go ahead TD in Detroit earlier? Kirk's got legs, its okay to use them.

 

He definitely has better legs than folks give him credit for, but I like him looking down field honestly. We have seen what good legs can get you and it's nice. But those back breaking 30 yard throws because you can't contain Jackson, Reed, Crowder and Garcon for 7 seconds are way more hurtful (and fun to watch) to me. 

[Warhead36]

25 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

He definitely has better legs than folks give him credit for, but I like him looking down field honestly. We have seen what good legs can get you and it's nice. But those back breaking 30 yard throws because you can't contain Jackson, Reed, Crowder and Garcon for 7 seconds are way more hurtful (and fun to watch) to me. 

For sure, but there are times where he can pick up a free 5 yards for a first down but doesn't.

 

But its super nit picky either way.

[William Barbour]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

Ok, so all you did was just take the "they make him better" argument and flip it around and say he makes them what they are. It does worth both ways, but you aren't presenting that argument in this post. Vernon Davis has always been a really good TE, but he's also had injury issues the last couple of years. I think his health is a big factor in this. Crowder has matured a ton in his route running and his recognition of defenses and hence ability to find soft spots and get open. That is super evident if you watch some All-22 from last season and then this season. 

 

Anyway, its more just a curiosity thing than anything else. I think we all know he's going to get paid. But you look at guys like Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, etc. No matter who they have (had, in Peyton's case) to throw to they always seem to be dominant QBs. 

 

 

That's usually how disagreement works

 

It also doesn't take the 22 to notice Kirk is putting people in the right position to be successful pre snap and throwing with accuracy vs Zone coverages and Man Coverages. 

 

If it was so easy. We would see 20 other QB around the league doing it. 

 

Also, Harris is becoming a solid depth guy? Is it because he's a diamond in the rough or because Kirk is making him look better?

 

People are blossoming because of Kirk, not in spite of. 

 

Also, let's add that PG and Harrison was solid with Manning as well, and he had Welker, Thomas, Thomas, and Sanders. All these WR blossom without him.

 

It's a team sport. Let's not try to discredit Kirk because he has "talent" around him. 

[TSO]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Agreed on this. His pocket awareness has improved drastically.

 

I think this is underselling his pocket awareness a little bit.

 

He was amazing at it during the 2015 preseason. I commented then at just how drastic of an improvement it was and even said that he's making me fall in love with his potential again after being stunned at just how badly he mentally collapsed in 2014. It was, perhaps, the biggest reason why I was so excited to see him start last year over Robert going into the season. I've always liked his skill set and always thought he could be great, but seeing the way he was manipulating the pocket back then just stunned me. Hadn't seen that from a Redskin QB. 

 

So his pocket awareness has been there. It's been very good. I think there are periods of time where he kind of gets a little extreme with getting rid of the ball quickly at all costs and, therefore, we don't get to see it since he doesn't let anyone get near him, lol. 

 

But when he decides to hold the ball a little longer, give plays more of a chance while staying in the pocket... we get to see it. It just goes unnoticed a lot since he doesn't do that much (better yet, he doesn't need to do it much since he's so good at reading the defense, quickly finding the open receiver, and getting rid of the ball fast with his quick throwing motion).  

 

If you listen to his pressers/interviews after games, he often mentions how he's wrestling with that very issue. It's probably the number one thing he talks about whenever it's about what he may have missed or could've done better. People often take it as him saying he needs to extend plays in the way of bouncing outside or making something happen with his legs, but he's not always implying that. He often mentions holding on to the ball just a little longer to let something else develop.      

 

We got a rare glimpse into his excellent pocket awareness against the Cards because, for the first time in a while, we faced a defense that could get immediate pressure consistently.

 

I don't believe the pocket awareness we saw against them is an "improvement". We just got to see it consistently when, otherwise and in most games, he's getting rid of the ball quickly enough and our Oline is doing a good enough job that he doesn't need to use it. But it's there. It's an underrated aspect of his game, and it's been that way for some time now.    

[Wildbunny]

46 minutes ago, Llevron said:

He definitely has better legs than folks give him credit for, but I like him looking down field honestly. We have seen what good legs can get you and it's nice. But those back breaking 30 yard throws because you can't contain Jackson, Reed, Crowder and Garcon for 7 seconds are way more hurtful (and fun to watch) to me. 

 

Damn, they can only cover 30 yards in 7 seconds? Pretty sure Will Compton can tops that!!!

In 7 seconds you'd expect them to have run 50/60, then a few more, and you're out of QB range.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Says the offensive talent is mediocre....then lists 1/3 of the offensive players that are elite at their positions. LOL.

 

Yes, and there are a lot of players that are below average so in my mind it balances to a pretty average group of talent. 3 of the O-line are average at best at the moment (with POTENTIAL to be above average), outside of 2 WR and a TE the rest of the receiving corp is average at best (and that's, what, 6 WR and 2-3 TE?), there's not a lot of depth. Our starting RB couldn't stop fumbling and our new RB is an undrafted rookie from Tulane who has been adequate at best with occasional flashes.

 

The team on that side of the ball is young and could very well turn into a stack of elite talent, but right now they're just too young and unknown. Not a bad thing, just who knows? We tend to give a lot of them, especially on the O-Line, a pass because of their draft pedigree and the fact that they have shown flashes. 

[“Misdirection”]

3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

 

Yes, and there are a lot of players that are below average so in my mind it balances to a pretty average group of talent. 3 of the O-line are average at best at the moment (with POTENTIAL to be above average), outside of 2 WR and a TE the rest of the receiving corp is average at best (and that's, what, 6 WR and 2-3 TE?), there's not a lot of depth. Our starting RB couldn't stop fumbling and our new RB is an undrafted rookie from Tulane who has been adequate at best with occasional flashes.

 

The team on that side of the ball is young and could very well turn into a stack of elite talent, but right now they're just too young and unknown. Not a bad thing, just who knows? We tend to give a lot of them, especially on the O-Line, a pass because of their draft pedigree and the fact that they have shown flashes. 

 

Can't have an entire team of above average to elite players. At least, not sustainably. That would require the perfect storm of 2-3 blue chip guys on each side of the ball, and an unreal hit rate on the draft over a few years to have talent out performing it's pay. Basically the original Seahawks team with Wilson.

Due to the salary cap, there's no way to keep paying guys that are above average at each position, eventually you'll run out of money. Only ways are to hit it big consistently in the draft, or be so good like the Patriots that others will take less money.

[Tsailand]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Says the offensive talent is mediocre....then lists 1/3 of the offensive players that are elite at their positions. LOL.

 

Redskins fans are well accustomed to seeing players start for us who would not even make the roster as backups on most other teams.  This has warped these fan's perceptions to the point where, if a Redskins player isn't an embarrassment on the field,  they think he's elite.

 

Here is the complete list of elite players currently on the Redskins:

- Trent Williams, when 100% healthy (aka never)

- Jordan Reed

- Kirk Cousins

- Josh Norman

- Tress Way (just kidding, there is no such thing as an elite punted)

 

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

 

Can't have an entire team of above average to elite players. At least, not sustainably. That would require the perfect storm of 2-3 blue chip guys on each side of the ball, and an unreal hit rate on the draft over a few years to have talent out performing it's pay. Basically the original Seahawks team with Wilson.

Due to the salary cap, there's no way to keep paying guys that are above average at each position, eventually you'll run out of money. Only ways are to hit it big consistently in the draft, or be so good like the Patriots that others will take less money.

That's kind of my point though. We have average talent on offense but we've drafted fairly well on that side of the ball so the potential is there for it to be an absolutely elite offense. It's not there now because the players are, for the most part young. Outside of Williams and Reed (and excluding Garcon and Desean who may not be back), we could have 3-4 Olinemen, 3 WR, 3 RB all still on rookie contracts. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

For sure, but there are times where he can pick up a free 5 yards for a first down but doesn't.

 

But its super nit picky either way.

 

I think it would be valuable in extending drives as you describe. It would also be valuable in the red zone, whether directly or indirectly leading to points. Cousins scored 3 times last year when you remove the 1-yard QB sneaks. He scored from the 3, 8, and 13. Not only are those scores valuable, but the threat of those runs can loosen things up just enough for the passing game. I'd like to see 1-2 more read-option/QB draw plays when we get inside the 10.  

10 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

 

The offensive talent is pretty mediocre. Outside of Scherff, TWill, Reed, Desean and Crowder there isn't a ton of above average talent. Let's not overhype the talent we have here. Granted guys like Moses, Long and Doctson could become special players, but for now they're decent. 

 

So, you believe that 3 of our 5 primary pass-catchers and 2 of our 5 offensive linemen are good-to-great. You also concede that the rest of the offense is solid-to-decent. This isn't Pro Bowl, you can't have 5-star players at every position. 

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I think it would be valuable in extending drives as you describe. It would also be valuable in the red zone, whether directly or indirectly leading to points. Cousins scored 3 times last year when you remove the 1-yard QB sneaks. He scored from the 3, 8, and 13. Not only are those scores valuable, but the threat of those runs can loosen things up just enough for the passing game. I'd like to see 1-2 more read-option/QB draw plays when we get inside the 10.  

 

So, you believe that 3 of our 5 primary pass-catchers and 2 of our 5 offensive linemen are good-to-great. You also concede that the rest of the offense is solid-to-decent. This isn't Pro Bowl, you can't have 5-star players at every position. 

I mentioned 5 as above average, 3 average and the rest below. We do overrate some of our own. We have no idea what Doctson will become. Same with Moses and Long and anyone else who have only been here for 1-2 years or have been here for a while but just began starting recently. I have zero faith in our run game (Thompson is just another Roy Helu IMO) and if we lose both Garcon and Desean in FA then our WR corp is one of the thinnest in the NFL. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

16 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I mentioned 5 as above average, 3 average and the rest below. We do overrate some of our own. We have no idea what Doctson will become. Same with Moses and Long and anyone else who have only been here for 1-2 years or have been here for a while but just began starting recently. I have zero faith in our run game (Thompson is just another Roy Helu IMO) and if we lose both Garcon and Desean in FA then our WR corp is one of the thinnest in the NFL. 

 

OK, I guess that's fair. I would say that guys like Reed, Williams, and Jackson are better than simply "above average" and I would say that players like Garcon, Scherff, Moses, and Crowder would have to be considered "above average" based on their sustained play. So, by my count, that's 70% of our non-Cousins starters who are conservatively above average or better. I'm with you on Long and any RB we have. I also think Lauvao is trash. But, you could possibly put me out there at G with the rest of our offense and you'll have a strong overall unit. 

[PartyPosse]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

OK, I guess that's fair. I would say that guys like Reed, Williams, and Jackson are better than simply "above average" and I would say that players like Garcon, Scherff, Moses, and Crowder would have to be considered "above average" based on their sustained play. So, by my count, that's 70% of our non-Cousins starters who are conservatively above average or better. I'm with you on Long and any RB we have. I also think Lauvao is trash. But, you could possibly put me out there at G with the rest of our offense and you'll have a strong overall unit. 

They very well could be, but they aren't there yet.

 

also for desean, outside of his speed is there any other aspect of his game that isn't just average?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

They very well could be, but they aren't there yet.

 

also for desean, outside of his speed is there any other aspect of his game that isn't just average?

I couldn't say, but his speed is part of his game. If you take away most NFL players' biggest strength, you'd have a lot of average players. 

 

As for the guys you aren't ready to crown yet...I get it. But their output is their output, no? In 28 games Jamison Crowder has well over 100 catches, 1,300 yards, and 9 TDs. That's an impact player right now. 

[PartyPosse]

19 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I couldn't say, but his speed is part of his game. If you take away most NFL players' biggest strength, you'd have a lot of average players. 

 

As for the guys you aren't ready to crown yet...I get it. But their output is their output, no? In 28 games Jamison Crowder has well over 100 catches, 1,300 yards, and 9 TDs. That's an impact player right now. 

 

Well, if you average that out to a 16 game season, it's 57 catches, 700 yards and 5 TD. Good but nothing spectacular although I will most definitely and most happily concede that the best is yet to come for him. 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

 

Well, if you average that out to a 16 game season, it's 57 catches, 700 yards and 5 TD. Good but nothing spectacular although I will most definitely and most happily concede that the best is yet to come for him. 

 

Agreed on both counts. I think he's only getting better (compare this year's numbers to last year's). Also, even if your slot receiver (#2-4 target on offense) is "good but nothing spectacular" you are doing pretty well! All I have labeled him as so far is "above average". 

[William Barbour]

Kirk leads this offense that is . ..

 

LAST in the league in drives PER GAME because of the defense not getting off the field. Yet, we are TOP 10 in points per DRIVES, even with the RZ issues. 

 

Add to that we are the 2nd ranked offense in the league with the LAST amount of drives per game!!! Think about how ****ing remarkable that is. Just think about that before we think about not paying Kirk, or even letting Jay Gruden go. 

 

 

[“Misdirection”]

48 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

 

Well, if you average that out to a 16 game season, it's 57 catches, 700 yards and 5 TD. Good but nothing spectacular although I will most definitely and most happily concede that the best is yet to come for him. 

 

Project his stats for just this year.

He's currently at:

58 Rec, 82 Targets, 767 yards, 13.2 average, long of 55, 7 TD's.

 

ESPN Projections for this season put him on his current pace at:

77 Rec, 108 Targets, 1,023 yards, 13.2 average, long of 55, and 9 TD's.

 

He's also averaging 15.3 yards per punt return, and has a PR TD.

 

Jamison Crowder has arrived. He is no doubt an impact player on this team, and in this league.