Larry Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 And now (once again), we're seeing why this isn't going to change. Too many people are just fine with the way things are. They've got a list of reasons why it's OK. "Failing to do what you're told" is good enough reason to shoot somebody. "Moving in a direction where there might be a weapon" is good enough. So is "Well, the cops did not have proof that there wasn't a weapon, somewhere in the area". "Maybe we'll find out something that the dead guy did, a few minutes or hours before he got shot" is good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Well for a lot of people every police shooting is justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said: Did you hear the comment the guy made from the helicopter? Something about him being a big, bad dude. There were also 911 calls the police were getting, saying how there was an suv broken down in the middle of the road. It seems the cops that arrived on the scene possibly didn't really know what they were responding to. And then with the guy not following instructions, things escalated. Calls of a common harmless situation, a broken down car that stalled ... they run up like they received calls of man who'd just set a house on fire, and then some moron from a helicopter who can't see or ascertain anything from his position calls him a big bad dude (for doing what exactly) and you don't think there's anything fishy on the police side? Fine, we give up, police are never wrong. Like it's not even that I think every shooting involving police is a situation where the police were wrong, that's obviously ridiculous, but why is it every time, that people are so desperate, like, life depending on it desperate, to believe that the cop could never have actually acted unlawfully? Just once, give the benefit of the doubt to the person who can no longer speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray-Ban Dan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Never said I was "ok" with him being shot. You're putting words in my mouth. But I'm also not one to automatically assume that the police were completely in the wrong, without having all the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said: Never said I was "ok" with him being shot. You're putting words in my mouth. But I'm also not one to automatically assume that the police were completely in the wrong, without having all the facts. We'll definitely get the facts, alright. I bet the first fact will be "He was going for a weapon" Seems to be the go to fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 47 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Wrong thread?? Yeah, didnt even realize it until you quoted me. Must have hit the wrong button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 19 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said: Never said I was "ok" with him being shot. You're putting words in my mouth. But I'm also not one to automatically assume that the police were completely in the wrong, without having all the facts. No, you're one to make four posts, every single one of which has no purpose whatsoever other than to propose reasons why maybe shooting an unarmed man is justified. And you know what's worse? Every single one of the excuses you've offered, wouldn't be good enough, even if they were true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 22 minutes ago, SkinInsite said: Well for a lot of people every police shooting is justified. That's a fact! I am not anti-police in the slightest, but the shooting apologists roll out EVERY damn time to defend a bad shoot, saying "Just do what the officer says and you won't get shot." Well, screw that! Speeding is not a capital offense, and lethal force should be a LAST resort, not a "Oh I thought I saw something" reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said: Never said I was "ok" with him being shot. You're putting words in my mouth. But I'm also not one to automatically assume that the police were completely in the wrong, without having all the facts. He didn't have a weapon though and he wasn't reaching for a gun. That fact makes the cop who fired her gun wrong. Problem is, we allow our police to use lethal force, even when they're wrong as long as they perceived a threat. The fact that one cop used his taser doesn't bode well for the cop who shot her gun. Something is definitely off with the situation. The helicopter video starts with the guy all the way at the first responding cop's car, the cop already has his gun drawn and the guy already has his hands up. Curious to know what transpired in that first interaction to cause the first cop to pull his gun. Doesn't sound like how you'd respond to a broken down car. Maybe the guy was completely whacked out on something? Or for some reason he was reaaaaallly nervous and acted weird. Or maybe the cop was just an aggressive asshole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 It doesn't matter if there was a gun in the car or not. If he starts reaching into his car, even when ordered not to, he's probably going to be fired upon. And that's justified. Its not a cops job to play a guessing game. He could be reaching for a baby's toy, or he could be reaching for a bazooka. I'm guessing the proper action is to detain the individual. Possibly cuff and question him, search his vehicle for themselves. That being said, it's hard to see anything in the video that warrants anything harmful being done. The 4 cops are in the way between the camera and the individual. But the statement from the Police Chief indicates this was an unjustified shooting. Perhaps the female officer got spooked and the worst possible outcome came to pass. I guess the other officers on the scene gave their story and all stories were the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I'm going to say the same thing I say in each of these threads. I'm sure it will also be ignored as it usually is. How about we wait for some more facts to come out before deciding if the cop is guilty OR innocent? What a novel, American idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray-Ban Dan Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, STBonecrusher21 said: It doesn't matter if there was a gun in the car or not. If he starts reaching into his car, even when ordered not to, he's probably going to be fired upon. And that's justified. Its not a cops job to play a guessing game. He could be reaching for a baby's toy, or he could be reaching for a bazooka. Thank you. It's amazing that people don't understand this. It's always "whaaaa...he didn't have a gun on him??....QUILTY!" smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said: Thank you. It's amazing that people don't understand this. It's always "whaaaa...he didn't have a gun on him??....QUILTY!" smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Ray-Ban Dan said: It's standard protocol for a cop to pull his gun when someone isn't following commands. You're assuming he was getting his ID. Whether he was or not, is irrelevant. He definitely wasn't doing what they were instructing him to do. You don't reach inside your vehicle when you are being told to stop. Suppposedly he was tazed before she fired her gun, too. So you heard her audio? Because I've seen this video and the helicopter footage and I don't know what they were saying to him. And here is the helicopter footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 29 minutes ago, Ray-Ban Dan said: Thank you. It's amazing that people don't understand this. It's always "whaaaa...he didn't have a gun on him??....QUILTY!" smh Yeah. It's amazing. For some folks, the fact that the man is on video, from multiple angles, with his empty hands in the air, seems like enough evidence to conclude that, based on the evidence presented so far, that this looks bad. Good thing we've got other people in this thread, who have the good sense to ignore the facts we know, so far. And to instead to run through a pre-rehearsed list of imaginary scenarios, every one of which was chosen for the sole purpose of making the unarmed man with his hands in the air, guilty of something for which being killed without a trial is the correct response. Those folks who are simply looking at irrefutable proof that he was shot while unarmed, with his hands in the air, and not diligently working to try to invent something, sure are all horribly biased, aren't they? Those other folks just decide who's guilty without any evidence at all, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 1 hour ago, SkinInsite said: Well for a lot of people every police shooting is justified. as long as the victim has melanin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 It's ridiculous and terrifying that cops can so easily shoot someone to death over a miscommunication, misunderstanding, or someone not hearing what they said and people will just accept that as normal or ok. (Putting aside race, bias, or intention for the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 40 minutes ago, Larry said: Good thing we've got other people in this thread, who have the good sense to ignore the facts we know, so far. And to instead to run through a pre-rehearsed list of imaginary scenarios, every one of which was chosen for the sole purpose of making the unarmed man with his hands in the air, guilty of something for which being killed without a trial is the correct response. His hands are in the air as he walks back to his vehicle. (No idea why he's walking back towards his vehicle though, there's no way he's being ordered to do that.) Then as he gets to his vehicle, his right hand goes down. For a second it looks like he's placing them towards the top of his car :20 sec in the vid posted above, then his right hand goes down towards the handle :22 sec in the vid posted above. The police Chief has already made the statement that this is a wrongful shooting. Most likely cooberated by the other officers on the scene. There's no way of knowing what's being said by the officers. I don't think the rules of engagement would say "shoot suspect if trying to open car door" which was all he was doing. But there's also no way the officers want the person getting back into his car, for any reason at all. Very strange incident. Would like to hear the stories told by the other officers on the scene. All I'm trying to do is figure out and understand what caused this officer to open fire. Nothing wrong with talking about that is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 The whole time he was waling away with his hands up, I was screaming internally for someone to tackle him. They literally let him get all the way to the car where he might of been able to get a weapon to kill him? He's resisting arrest, GET HIS ***, don't wait until he gets to the car and then kill him!!! 1 hour ago, SkinInsite said: Well for a lot of people every police shooting is justified. I can't like this, its too real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Quote Police spokeswoman Jeanne MacKenzie had said earlier that police briefings indicated Crutcher was not obeying the officers' commands. She said Monday that she didn't know what Crutcher was doing that prompted police to shoot."I'm not privy to those details," she said.She said Shelby did not activate her patrol car's dashcam."Officers have discretion whether or not to turn their light bar on," she said. "The dashcam is attached to the light bar. There is no policy saying if you're on this kind of call, you do this." http://abc7.com/news/tulsa-police-shoot-kill-unarmed-black-man-doj-investigating/1517880/ I think see the first police officer's lights are on at the beginning of that helicopter footage. They also seem to be on in the dashcam footage they did release and can be seen when that officer pulls up behind the first car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 3 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said: What's with Tulsa? The First 48 is one of my guilty pleasures. Been watching it for 12 years now. The past year or so they've been following homicide detectives in Tulsa. I swear to God they have the craziest, most insane murder cases ever. And not just once or twice but every single episode is something. Crazier than Miami, crazier than Atlanta, crazier than New Orleans, Cleveland, Dallas, etc. ****ing Tulsa. Never would have thought. Anybody ever been there? What's the deal? Sorry for the hijack. This is obviously ****ed up. Maybe this is finally the one that breaks the camels back and we get real change? More than likely we'll just get one of our presidential candidates (FDT) to read Horton Hears a Who to us instead. I live in Tulsa. About 5 miles from where this took place. Second night in my apartment, the apartment above me was robbed by a team of burglars. I heard it then watched as they dumped electronics off the balcony, then dipped with it all. There are SO many police chases here, and the rate of shootings is steadily rising. Someone gets cut down pretty much every night here. It's weird though, I feel no racial tension. Blacks and whites get along just fine here, even after this incident. Tonight when I was leaving Walmart, I saw a black girl who looked to be in her 20s give a white cop a 10 second hug. He helped her jump start her car. There's a black dude who dances like a MUG on the street corner of the busiest intersection in town who holds a sign that simply says "Love One Another". People always honk to acknowledge him. It's beautiful and hilarious at the same time. Isn't looking for spare change, just dances like crazy with his earbuds in. Seeing gnarly protests at that intersection is a possibility. It's literally a half mile away from me. Would be quite a change of tune for that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Perhaps he wasn't exactly cooperative but he wasn't being aggressive, there wasn't any crime that was apparent and there wasn't any reason to think he posed a threat to the gang of thugs...'er cops present. I know it might be tough for a cop to understand, but sometimes people are mentally ill, deaf, have hypoglycemia or any number of other reasons why they might not comply with orders. *Newsflash* that shouldn't be grounds for execution. I guess beating people to a pulp is too taxing and time consuming. Better to just shoot first and say you felt "threatened" so the whole thing can be pushed under the rug....like it is 99% of the time. To quote a certain someone's sig "Murdering the innocent is always evil". So when seeing stuff like this happen over and over and over and over again, is it any wonder that some of us (not me of course) couldn't care less when cop gets popped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Sadly, In Typical America fashion, change is coming-via the insurance companies. At some point insurance for PDs is going to become untenable. So chamge is coming, but not beciae it's the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 6 hours ago, StillUnknown said: as long as the victim has melanin How did es react to the last thread on a white person being shot by police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 If I am a cop, dude isn't listening to commands or responding, moving towards car door, I put a bullet in his ass white or black. I am not letting him pull a weapon, don't care what anyone says, especially internet douches typing from the safety of their parents basements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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