How do we get the run game going?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

12 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

e has NOT lost a step, which was the reasoning behind dumping him into FA in the first place. 

I think the reasoning was that you get out early on RBs and don't pay them larger second contracts when they will inevitably decline, aside from some outliers. 

This is especially true for RBs that took the beating and have the number of carries Morris had in both college and pros. 

No he may not fall off a cliff this year but you don't want to be paying him good money when he does soon, when RB production is one of the easier positions to replace. 

Additonally, Morris' skill set doesn't exactly fit what Jay wants to do on offense 

[RedBeast]

I think we are all a little freaked out because our history has produced RB greats like Larry Brown, John Riggins, Stephen Davis, Clinton Portis, Alfred Morris, etc...and now our backfield is being led by who? Again?

Or at least me?

[TSO]

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

@thesubmittedone yeah, Jones looked good, until he Matt Jones'd. 

 

Man am I going to destroy you if Matt Jones has a solid year. It's going to be epic, this is all out war at this point.  

I'm in a win win here, you're in a lose lose, you see.

If you're right, and Matt Jones sucks, that means we spent a third rounder as well as a ton of time coaching and developing a bust. That's not good for any Skins fan hoping the team succeeds. And you're a Skins fan hoping the team succeeds, right? As for me, what are you going to do? Make fun of me for believing in a Skins player with great potential as recognized by the very good GM we have? Lame. 

But if he does well, you're never going to hear the end of it from me. You will suffer for eternity for your lack of support and utter rejection of his potential. It will be glorious. 

Glorious!!!! 

9 hours ago, Johns Bass said:

And by the time Jones got the ball he should have seen to run right but your point is well taken. Thanx for the pics.

 

Uhm, that wasn't Matt Jones. That was Kelley.  

Quick, KB, "unlike" this post before anyone notices.  

[Koolblue13]

 that's hysterical. I feel like I'm telling myself off.

I was seriously excited for Jones and talking him up the same way you are, back around OTAs. 

If I'm right and Jones is a bust, I lose. If I'm wrong and he's a bigger faster Marshall Faulk, like I was describing him before TC, I will happily eat my more recent words and win a lot as a fan.

I had the highest of hopes and I don't think the fumble is even on him. Still excited to see Kelley with the ones.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I wonder how our view of Jones would be if Vinny had drafted him instead of Scot M? lol...

[Zguy28]

14 hours ago, Aireskoi said:

 

I think Keim may have mistaken Lauvao 77 for Arie 74 on this play, because I didn't see another time the LG was pushed down.  No big deal, but this was the short yardage play of the night and it was ugly.

In the pics you posted the problem is glaringly obvious, at least to me. The lineman make a fundamental mistake. Low man wins. Look at how high the pads are. If you allow a defensive lineman to get under your pads, you will lose.

[DJHJR86]

Any news or updates with regards to Pierre Thomas?

[skinsmania123]

10 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I think the reasoning was that you get out early on RBs and don't pay them larger second contracts when they will inevitably decline, aside from some outliers. 

This is especially true for RBs that took the beating and have the number of carries Morris had in both college and pros. 

No he may not fall off a cliff this year but you don't want to be paying him good money when he does soon, when RB production is one of the easier positions to replace. 

Additonally, Morris' skill set doesn't exactly fit what Jay wants to do on offense 

I have heard those discussions regarding Morris.  The proof will be how he does the next couple of years. Not just this year.  I did not see any decline with him as much as I saw no running lanes.  He is a very durable back who will do a lot more with Dallas.  He came in to the league in 2012 we all know that.  There are a number of RB's in the NFL who took a pounding in college who have been on rosters for 7 years and are still producing.   I know because I pick them year in and year out in my fantasy league.  Staying healthy, the durability factor and having a good line go a long way in this league if you are a RB or QB.

My main point about Morris is that he looked like he did in 2012 the two preseason games I saw him in.  When he was here behind RG3 the threat of the read option assisted his production behind a mediocre line and it covered up a lot of deficiencies. Now he has a decent line.  

We will see.  I have no problem in being wrong and in this case I want to be wrong because it is Dallass.

[Aireskoi]

10 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I think the reasoning was that you get out early on RBs and don't pay them larger second contracts when they will inevitably decline, aside from some outliers. 

This is especially true for RBs that took the beating and have the number of carries Morris had in both college and pros. 

No he may not fall off a cliff this year but you don't want to be paying him good money when he does soon, when RB production is one of the easier positions to replace. 

Additonally, Morris' skill set doesn't exactly fit what Jay wants to do on offense 

 

I agree Morris was not a fit and I'm fine that he's gone based on that.

I think we could have had him for less than the Cowboys paid, or even if it was the same price... it wasn't about money.

He's not getting paid much, it's almost a 'vet minimum plus incentives' type deal, that's the only part that makes it tough for me.

 

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cowboys/post/_/id/4750183/breaking-down-alfred-morris-contract

IRVING, Texas -- If Alfred Morris does not miss a game, rushes for more than 1,600 yards and leads the NFL in rushing in either 2016 or ’17, he will make $5.5 million over the next two years.

Morris received a $1 million signing bonus as part of the two-year deal he signed with Dallas last week. He will earn base salaries of $800,000, which is fully guaranteed, and $1.2 million. In 2017, he has per-game roster bonuses totaling $500,000.

The escalator/incentive package is similar to what Darren McFadden received in 2015.

Morris can increase his 2017 base salary by up to $1 million if he runs for 1,500 yards and leads the league in rushing.

Somewhat more modestly, if he runs for 1,000 yards, his 2017 base salary will increase by $250,000. For 1,250 yards it will go up $500,000, and for 1,500 yards it will go up $750,000.

In 2017, he can earn an extra $250,000 for 1,000 yards, $500,000 for 1,250 yards, $750,000 for 1,400 yards and $1 million for 1,600 yards.

What are the chances he hits every part of the contract?

Emmitt Smith at his best never had back-to-back 1,600-yard seasons.

[Darth Tater]

10 hours ago, RedBeast said:

I think we are all a little freaked out because our history has produced RB greats like Larry Brown, John Riggins, Stephen Davis, Clinton Portis, Alfred Morris, etc...and now our backfield is being led by who? Again?

Or at least me?

But remember Larry Brown was a nobody as a rookie on a team with no running backs.  John Riggins was supposed to be traded. Going into 1999, Stephen Davis was not supposed to be what he became, our best RB had left the building and the guy who was supposed to start was a question mark at best.  Going into 2012, Alfred Morris was going to be the number 3 back or maybe a FB on a team full of unproven backs ,

[Aireskoi]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

I wonder how our view of Jones would be if Vinny had drafted him instead of Scot M? lol...

 

Well if Vinny was the GM we may ask why he would have traded away the 4th round pick instead of taking a chance on a RB (or D'lineman).

These backs were available in Round 4 when we traded out:

 

[crabbypatty]

20 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I have heard those discussions regarding Morris.  The proof will be how he does the next couple of years. Not just this year.  I did not see any decline with him as much as I saw no running lanes.  He is a very durable back who will do a lot more with Dallas.

 

This right here. Unless something changes drastically with the blocking get used to seeing alot more of this stuff, same as last year. I actually think the backs are better than they're given credit for around here, because they have to create with absolutely nothing much of the time.

Here's some stills from the jets game.. how many times are you going to win in the run game with 3 or more defenders on your side of the line of scrimmage on running plays?? Notice too that the looks the skins like to run out of tend to gather as many as 7 or 8 defenders in the box. This makes it awfully tough to run anything inside.

Yes I know Jackson wasn't playing, kirk didn't play etc etc. The fact of the matter is, that 1v1 blocking on run plays is horrid. Ideally your guys should be on the OTHER side of the LOS, correct? instead the OL is falling back to catch or wall guys off, and if one fails, the whole thing is blown up.

Maybe this is how the scheme is designed to work, sell defenders that it may or may not be play action, let them run by and wall them off vs blowing them off the ball? I don't profess to know the answers, but I do know that at any given time it seems that our OL is being pushed into the backfield way more often than I'd like to see for a productive running attack. The backs having to routinely make moves in the backfield to avoid defenders on every play is no bueno. No wonder they don't hit the LOS with a full head of steam, it's hard to do that if you're sidestepping guys immediately after getting the handoff.

ok here we have a short yardage 2nd and 3..  3 jets defenders on the redskins side of the ball with 3 more free

Here's a 1st and 10 pitch to the outside, this time there are 5 defenders in the backfield, and 2 redskins on the ground. Predictably this yielded a loss.

Here's another 1st and 10 run, again 5 jets on the wrong side of the LOS the LT is beat cleanly, the RT and RG are beaten but holding the blocks off just enough to let the runner get by

and here's the last one from early in the 1st, notice 2 redskins blockers on the ground and 3 jets in the backfield, the one being blocked by the LT is out of the play, but the 4th defender is free to fill because his blocker is on the ground in the backfield

 

[CTskin]

Crabbypatty- considering our 1s/2s dominated the Jets 1s, I don't think it's a fair time to be critical. I understand your point, you want to dominate the LoS. I would like to get more of a push up front also, but the Jets have arguably the best DL in the game and we ran well against them. It was night and day compared to the Falcons game. If we do it again vs the Bills then maybe we can hold out hope that we will have some semblance of a real running game this year. 

[Mr. Sinister]

12 hours ago, RedBeast said:

I think we are all a little freaked out because our history has produced RB greats like Larry Brown, John Riggins, Stephen Davis, Clinton Portis, Alfred Morris, etc...and now our backfield is being led by who? Again?

Or at least me?

 

We're entering the Trung Canidate Realm.... a threshold where reality ceases to exist.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

Should I be losing a bit of faith in McC based on us letting Alfred Morris walk?  I think there are a lot of reasons that was a pretty bad miscalculation, but admittedly I didn't follow the situation carefully.

[SkinsGuy]

8 minutes ago, RedskinsInFebruary said:

Should I be losing a bit of faith in McC based on us letting Alfred Morris walk?  I think there are a lot of reasons that was a pretty bad miscalculation, but admittedly I didn't follow the situation carefully.

I don't think you should, because Morris seemed to be a poor fit here.

Besides, don't let a few carries in a preseason game make you suddenly decide he is the Morris of 2012 again. Anymore than two passes in the Browns/Falcons game should tell you that Robert Griffin is "back".

Anymore than the Redskins starting defense's strong showing so far in the preseason means they will be great.

It is just too small a sample right now.

It's preseason. We have to wait and see if any of this translates over to the regular season.

[Conn]

7 minutes ago, RedskinsInFebruary said:

Should I be losing a bit of faith in McC based on us letting Alfred Morris walk?  I think there are a lot of reasons that was a pretty bad miscalculation, but admittedly I didn't follow the situation carefully.

Losing or gaining faith due to any one transaction is irrational, in either direction regardless of the outcome.

[Johns Bass]

10 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Uhm, that wasn't Matt Jones. That was Kelley.  

Quick, KB, "unlike" this post before anyone notices.  

 

Thanx , SubmittedOne - I stand corrected.

[Johns Bass]

Quote

This right here. Unless something changes drastically with the blocking get used to seeing alot more of this stuff, same as last year. I actually think the backs are better than they're given credit for around here, because they have to create with absolutely nothing much of the time.

Here's some stills from the jets game.. how many times are you going to win in the run game with 3 or more defenders on your side of the line of scrimmage on running plays?? Notice too that the looks the skins like to run out of tend to gather as many as 7 or 8 defenders in the box. This makes it awfully tough to run anything inside...

 

All great points & Pic's. I would say that the 1v1 probably isn't going to go away in the near future and some of the blocking schemes are a work in progress due to rule changes. It's not just the Redskins but I've noticed with everybody across the league they are all pretty much doing the same. The Skins did improve between the 1st and 2nd games so at least they are trending in the right direction.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Johns Bass said:

 

Thanx , SubmittedOne - I stand corrected.

Don't quote large blocks of text or pictures 

Alfred Morris can't pass block or catch well. 

Those are two of the 3 reasons he is gone. Those things won't change.

Declined production and age is the only argument.

[Airyx]

13 hours ago, RedBeast said:

I think we are all a little freaked out because our history has produced RB greats like Larry Brown, John Riggins, Stephen Davis, Clinton Portis, Alfred Morris, etc...and now our backfield is being led by who? Again?

Or at least me?

 

Stephen Davis...was a guy who played FB ahead of Skip Hicks, and was really only known for getting punched by Michael Westbrook.

Then, Hicks got hurt during the 98 season, Davis got a chance to show what he could do, and in 99 Davis because THE man.

The point is, at the beginning of the 99 season, the 'skins did not have a proven RB...just like now. Hopefully, like 99, Jones will be THE guy.

The Morris story is the same. Our starter was supposed to be Tim Hightower, not the 6th round pick.

[Bantu]

Which teams are RB rich around the league? For example, we have a surplus of WRs. There must be teams that have RBs that could be found after 2nd cuts.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Im a big fan of Matt Jones. Big boy, good break away speed for his size, has some wiggle in his hips and can go north-south and move tacklers back. 

Are we seriously concerned about RB depth and talking about needing to bring in a starter bc of a shoulder strain? (that may be a separated AC, just my gut speculation based on how he fell and how he will be out a few weeks).  

We are good at RB imo. Im more worried about Lich at center. Im a big fan of Lich and what he has done for us but i dont see him getting good interior push when needed. 

“Matt Jones reminds me a lot—a lot—of Marshawn from the standpoint that he’s north-south, he’s downhill and he’s not afraid of contact,” Redskins General Manager Scot McCloughan said this week on ESPN 980.

[Koolblue13]

Comparing Jones to Lynch is insane.

[justice98]

24 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Comparing Jones to Lynch is insane.

Is Jones a north-south runner and not afraid of contact?  That's all he said.