Next Day Thread: Eagles Make Us Sad

[Warhead36]

We also got favorable calls to extend most of our scoring drives. I have no issues with the officiating.

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

There's always a play like this when a game comes down to 1 score to win in OT. 

At this point it's sour grapes for officiating we've always known to be inconsistent.

A team needs to control what it can. Like Dotson dropping that third down pass. 

Play better and the bad officiating can be negated. 

 

I agree but them not initially calling it a catch with zero bobble was annoying, the Dotson drop was frustrating ,imo not worth the first rounder I wish we took oline or something

[TheGoodBits]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It was close. If it was ruled a catch it would have stayed a catch. There wasnt enough to overturn it.

Yeah people are posting the pic but it’s worth noting that daylight you think you see between the white of his shoe and the white of the line could easily be the red stripe at the bottom of Terry’s shoes. Imo the official who made the call on the field probably had the best angle to see it. Not positive he got it right though. I would have been livid if that call was overturned against us. Absolutely a situation where “call stands” was the right thing regardless of how it was called on the field. 

[FootballZombie]

Oline didn't do any better or worse then they have been.

 

We just had a gameplan that did not make their play the uber tent-pole of the offense, so they were not as exposed. 

 

 

Run blocking felt really bad, but Philly is good at doing that

[RandyHolt]

RH 3FERS

 

Good

• Howell bounce back game. No turnovers and worked the pocket / scrambled as needed. Poised and steady. Needs to take less hits.
• EB bounce back game. Changed up his approach, Worked his #1 TMC early and dictated. Went away from featuring TEs and snuck in Logan later. Got Sam outside a few times. Even though the runs wide didn't amount to much yardage he kept Philly's fat ****s up front on the run and pretty quiet overall. Implemented a TE Tush Push something Ron and Turner refused to even try.
• WR/TE Room. Outside of a drop by Dotson I think they did great. TMC is a stud and we got screwed when an eagle forearm did not equal 2 feet. Shoutout to Pringle great catch and block. Steady Samuel did good. Dyami competed.

Bad

• JDR is king today.  His defense is too predictable and easy to game plan for. Uses his personnel to their weaknesses. Stud safety's largely MIA e.g. no where near the LOS on run plays. Refuses to pressure QBs and expects 4 to beat 5. Doesn't even fake blitzing to confuse OL to help his front 4.
• JDRs scheme - refuses to blitz yet can't find a way to give Forbes help on a league top 5 WR?
• JDR refusing to blitz and then suddenly burns his game plan in OT and starts mad dog blitzing but in doing so does the exact same blitz every time. That is probably the only blitz package he has. Today he and Ron will blame the front 4 for not getting in there. It looks like in regulation we can only expect 3-4 delay blitzes and zero non delayed blitzes per game. Our opponents know this. He doesn't give opposition OL a chance to make a mental mistakes. Those lead to free shots on QBs and wait for it... turnovers.

 

Mehgly

• If Forbes isn't generating turnovers he may be a liability at times. I do like he got a tough assignment to test his meddle but JDR ****ed him over by refusing to pressure Jalen. If Forbes is following no help over the top that should free up a blitzer for JDR to deploy. Pressure the QB go man-n-jam or rush 4 and play JDRs shell but then give Forbes help. 
• Ron "Riverboat's all in on a bluff" Rivera not letting his prized QB try and win it because Dotson was too tired from celebrating?
• Special teams meh Crowder ran up to fair catch a short punt at least. Way's short punt in OT. PR coverage was meh.

Edited October 2, 2023 by RandyHolt

[skinsmania123]

That was a great summation @KDawg.  I think Dotson deserves a couple of stars for catching the clutch TD bringing it into OT.  I don't think he is incorporated well into this offense but I know it is early in the season.    Given all the resources to our D line it is not a top 10 unit, although occasionally it flashes.   AJ Brown is a tall order to cover but JDR did nothing to help out his young struggling slight CB, and I also did not see any spy on Hurts, who again, gashed us on a few occasions.   It is almost as though our D line over pursues and the QB just slides up in the pocket and gets away.  It just seems that this team cannot put in a full effort consistently on both sides of the ball at the same time. The 3rd quarter was horrendous. We looked flat footed, missed tackles, just really sluggish.  

[Alexa]

Del Rio calls the game like he has Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor. He loves to rush 4 and when he does blitz it's obvious. Has his corner always playing zone. I don't like his defense at all. 

[Koolblue13]

Both sides had bad calls. The NFL hates technology. Multi billion dollar league and you can't have trackers in the cleats, ball, field and sideline? It's just stupid.

[Redwards]

9 hours ago, samy316 said:

I’ve been a proponent of keeping at least one, but after the last few weeks, I’m coming around to the idea of letting them both walk. They just aren’t special enough and they always disappear when it really counts.  It would be a big mistake to shell out money to one, let alone both.  They aren’t worth what they will be demanding.  Both Young & Sweat should kick rocks, and leave after this season.  What would really suck, is them stringing together some good games against inferior opponents coming up like the Bears and Falcons, to suck everyone back in on signing both to long term deals.  They love stat padding against weaker opponents and going ghost against tougher competition.

Agree.

 

If you are going to give big money to a DE, then that Defensive End BETTER BE A GAME WRECKER.  

 

When on earth has that term ever applied to Montez or Young at this level?  Never.  Neither one is a guy you truly fear or have to gameplan for.  So why give either of them a huge contract?  It would be another in a long, long line of stupid moves under this regime.

 

However, I'm hoping this is a moot point...because if the Harris Group is truly paying attention and has done their homework on the history of this FO, then there's no way in Hades that these mediocre bozos in our FO will be in charge once those contract decisions need to be made.  

 

I'm sick of paying players a ton of money only to watch them be anything but an impact player.  No one can possibly argue that Young and Montez don't disappear regularly against really good O lines.  It's all on tape.  Montez has been here half a decade now and has never been someone to truly fear.  The local media is definitely a part of the problem though because let either of those players have a day against a crap O line and all of a sudden that player is the second coming.  The media does the same thing with the defense as a whole. It's almost like they just want to purposefully forget the no show appearances against quality O lines and only base their rep on the results against crap O lines.  

 

Man...one of the saddest days for me (and one I'm silently dreading) is going to be if Ron is given an extension by Harris after anything less than a playoff win.  Because then I'll know we're screwed for at least a few more years AND that the Harris group hasn't truly done their research on this regime, and it'll take away a lot of faith I currently have in them.  We're chest deep in Norv Turner muck, and those years were horrid.  I have no desire to get stuck in that mediocre quagmire for any more length of time past this year.  It's the carrot always dangling but there are always excuses why we aren't elite.  Cinci went through it forever under Marvin Lewis.  

 

Do not let Ron become our Marvin Lewis.

 

  

Edited October 2, 2023 by Redwards

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 summation

Is that a real word? I honestly don't know.

[CobraCommander]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Is that a real word? I honestly don't know.

A summation is something found at the end of a document or oral presentation which provides a summary of all points made. 

[Warhead36]

Id keep Young over Sweat. Sweat made some plays against Arizona but has been silent since. Young was our best player on D yesterday and had a sack along with consistently pushing his man back(almost caused a sack fumble). Hes also younger with more upside. 
 

If we can trade Sweat for a legit starting OT Id consider it. 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

I'm not even upset about Rivera not going for two at the end of the fourth quarter. I guarantee you the same jabronis upset he didn't would be pissed he didn't kick the extra point if they lost because they didn't get it.

 

All in all, I feel somewhat good with the team. Looking like the defense is off to another slow start, but everything may be OK if they can weather the storm with competent offense. 

[justice98]

I have no problem with the decision not to go for 2.  I thought tying it up was the right call. 

 

But what I find curious is Ron's reasoning that  they were tired at the end.  Because, remember when their supposed improved conditioning was touted as a result of how Bieniemy runs practice?  Or when it was a factor when they had strong second halves against ARZ and DEN?  This was supposed to be the best conditioned team since he's been here.  

[Koolblue13]

I mean, we had 3 sacks on Hurts, which is pretty good. Young played a great game and did a lot to contain Hurts as well. We're all disappointed that the defensive line didn't take over the game, but we went against the best OL in the league and one of the harder to sack QBs, so it's not like they had a bad game. Our LBers did alright too really, keeping Goddert out of most of the game. The problem was mostly the secondary. 

3 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

A summation is something found at the end of a document or oral presentation which provides a summary of all points made. 

Thanks, I didn't know that. I would have said summarization, which I guess is different. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Trade one of them.   Let's do what the big boy teams do.  We could have traded Trent in season depending on the report for either a first or 2nd and thrd.  Instead we let it go to the off season where his trade value dropped to much less because of the competition from FA and the draft.

 

Their value is highest in season for teams competiting for the big dance who have limited options to upgrade.  Other teams do it.  We don't.  We should.

I’d be fine with that but it’s not going to happen in a must win year when the defense is not performing at the expected level.  

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Id keep Young over Sweat. Sweat made some plays against Arizona but has been silent since. Young was our best player on D yesterday and had a sack along with consistently pushing his man back(almost caused a sack fumble). Hes also younger with more upside. 
 

If we can trade Sweat for a legit starting OT Id consider it. 

The time to trade either one of them was last off-season. Now the return would be a middling draft pick and wouldn’t help Rivera. 
 

I also don’t think we could get a legit starting OT for either one of them. 

 

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’d be fine with that but it’s not going to happen in a must win year when the defense is not performing at the expected level.  

I don’t get this (but I think you’re right as to Rivera’s POV). 
 

If, in theory, trading either of them could net an upgrade at OT or LB why wouldn’t you do it. The argument would be the team is better now at a weaker position and our backups have filled in adequately at Edge over the last few years. 
 

But to your point, I think Rivera sees those two as his absolute best shot to win now and save his job, so your point is probably dead on. I just don’t get the logic.

 

Having said that, I don’t think either one nets an immediate upgrade at any position of need and would only return middling draft choices. We missed the boat on trading either of them.

[Koolblue13]

You trade them at the trade deadline, when their value is the highest and you only do it for draft picks.

 

But it's a lame duck coaching year, so that won't happen, because we aren't in a "build for the future" mode, even if Ron thinks he deserves a ring when we're eventually good.

[MartinC]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Id keep Young over Sweat. Sweat made some plays against Arizona but has been silent since. Young was our best player on D yesterday and had a sack along with consistently pushing his man back(almost caused a sack fumble). Hes also younger with more upside. 
 

If we can trade Sweat for a legit starting OT Id consider it. 

I wouldn’t say Young was our best defensive player yesterday. He did create some pressure and had a sack - but he continues to run himself out of plays by getting too far up field. Too often he is an OTs dream, they can just wash him past the QB opening up huge running lanes. 
 

He can’t set an edge to save his life. 
 

The Eagles first rushing TD was literally an open door because Young had run himself out of the play leaving a huge void. 
 

Curl was probably our best player on D. Consistently around the football and a big part of keeping a very strong running game in check.

[Koolblue13]

I would say that Fuller was the best defensive player yesterday, because he took Smith almost completely out of the game and he's their better receiver. They wouldn't even throw at him, which is really impressive.

[skinsmania123]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Is that a real word? I honestly don't know.

It sounded good. Probably not. 

[kingdaddy]

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

Studs and Duds:

*** - Sam Howell

*** - Eric Bienemy

*** - Terry McLaurin

** - Brian Robinson

** - Curtis Samuel

* - Antonio Gibson

 - Cheeseman

 - Forbes (He had a few great plays but a few too many bad ones)

 - Cody Barton

Add Jack Del Rio to the "Duds" list. I agree with all of your points about the defense and I'm tired of seeing this unit underachieve. There are 6 first round picks starting on defense and that doesn't include Kam Curl who plays like one. They are 100% healthy and as a unit they are grossly underachieving. Our scheme and playcalling has to be closely examined to the point where JDR needs to be put on notice. He's calling a dinosaur minded defense and letting opponents best players beat us. The Eagles were ripe to be beaten yesterday and our defense didn't show up....again. It's very disappointing.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

It's hard for me not take this game as some sort of moral victory when I look at Howell's performance.  He was sticking it into tight coverage where Hurts was dropping balls to wide open receivers. I can only imagine him in an offense that actually provides the protection for him to look further downfield.. Instead they are limited to mostly short throws.  He is mobile but I wish he were faster, there is a big difference between his foot speed and say Daniel Jones.

 

Chase had a few plays but I totally agree with the poster who said neither of our DEs are anything close to game wreckers.  You don't give a massive deal to a DE unless he is an impact player than these 2 are not.

 

Despite their efforts this secondary stinks.  We saw Diggs wide open all day last week, we saw them again give up big plays yesterday. Forbes looks like a bad pick, few great corners start this poorly, and Martin may be yet another wasted 2nd round pick.  

Edited October 2, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Add Jack Del Rio to the "Duds" list. I agree with all of your points about the defense and I'm tired of seeing this unit underachieve. There are 6 first round picks starting on defense and that doesn't include Kam Curl who plays like one. They are 100% healthy and as a unit they are grossly underachieving. Our scheme and playcalling has to be closely examined to the point where JDR needs to be put on notice. He's calling a dinosaur minded defense and letting opponents best players beat us. The Eagles were ripe to be beaten yesterday and our defense didn't show up....again. It's very disappointing.

 

I have a hard time adding coaches to the studs and duds. I know I do it but it doesn’t really align. I think I’m going to start not adding them specifically and just comment my thoughts moving forward. Good or bad.

[Renegade7]

11 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

There is a lack of creativity or disguise on the pressure scheme. JDR relies on the front 4 to get home - that’s too vanilla. In coverage we are generally sound but then again the lack of disguise or adjustment is an issue.

 

 

This was brought up when he came here, many people had concerns and it was explained that was the core of his scheme and it had worked elsewhere.

 

Times have changed, offenses are too good to expect consistent pressure from just four front.  While I want more blitzing we 1) shouldn't expect that from this scheme or JDR, and 2) stats don't always match what we think we seeing regards to how often we actually bring 5 or more.

 

The bigger problem I agree with you on is we don't see the defense doing enough premotion to illicit some level of confusion on the defense.  I hated Haslett, but he was at his best when it seemed everyone on defense was constantly moving around pre-snap to at least make the offense second guess what was happening.

 

We very much lost that game because JDR wanted Forbes to learn the hard way at this level in hopes it would catch him up faster the next time he played instead of hiding him and learning the hard way later.  Such an oldskool way of coaching, there's a reason the NFL is gravitating to these young player first coordinator as new HCs now, the game is changing.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Renegade7