Next Day Thread: Eagles Make Us Sad

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, profusion said:

They've over-invested in the DL and underinvested in the rest of the D. Once the play gets past the line, the Commanders look weak. That's a big reason why they can't get off the field on third down.

 

This was a frustrating loss all around. However, it does fit with the Commanders being in the mushy middle of the league.

I’d actually say a similar statement but: they over invested in the DL and under invested on the OL.

 

I’d also add: They over invested in DBs and under invested in LBs. (not necessarily in terms of total number of picks, but where those picks and investments were made and ahead of what else was available.)

Edited October 2, 2023 by KDawg

[hail2skins]

53 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I look at this Thursday against the Bears to be a "prove to me you aren't the same team we've seen every season so far under Ron Rivera" game.  The Bears are bad, Justin Fields is bad, etc etc.....there is no way we should be in a game that comes down to the final drive against the Bears if we are supposed to believe the team is better.

I would agree, except that it is a very short week and teams are just looking to survive Thursday night games and come out with the W, no matter how ugly. SF beat NYG last week by a solid margin, but it was relatively close entering the final quarter.

[Commander202]

Why do people think Purdy overrated?  He’s playing way better than what jimmy G or Lance ever did for the shanahan era .

[PeterMP]

Just now, KDawg said:

But they did change today.

 

We didn’t run enough screen last week. That’s a change. We were consistent with the run game… that was a change. You’re saying we ran it last week, but we didn’t do it consistently. We started pass heavy and settled into the run late to return some balance. 
 

This week we stuck with it for four quarters. Consistency is key. Not total number of carries. 
 

We also ran a ton of intermediate stuff and not a lot of quick hitters. So I’d argue 3 of 3 things changed this week.

 

I’m not arguing that our OL is good. Or that Howell isn’t going to get sacked and harassed. He is. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us get sacked 5 times a game for the rest of the year. Probably set a new record for sacks given up. But, if they continue running the plan like they do today they’ll be able to keep a balance and keep defenses on their toes and will be able to take advantage of more of the stuff Bienemy wants to do. 
 

He’ll never be able to do that stuff full time with the line he has. But running more of it is realistic.

 

Actually, if you read my post I pointed out that last week was an exception and that we didn't run the ball much (Mostly because we got blown out and likely got taken out of our game plan).  But that was the outlier.  And that's going to happen pretty much to every team.

 

If you aren't actually going to read what I write, just don't respond.  There's no requirement that you respond to a post just because they quoted you.

[Captain Wiggles]

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't know who would get promoted if Ron wanted to make a mid-season change.  

 

Rivera. He was calling the defensive plays his last season and a half in Carolina. Didn't save his job there obviously. Probably won't here either. 😬

[KDawg]

Just now, PeterMP said:

 

Actually, if you read my post I pointed out that last week was an exception and that we didn't run the ball much (Mostly because we got blown out and likely got taken out of our game plan).  But that was the outlier.  And that's going to happen pretty much to every team.

 

If you aren't actually going to read what I write, just don't respond.  There's no requirement that you respond to a post just because they quoted you.

You said that but last week counts. It was the only game the offense looked absolutely inept and it was due to the fact that we weren’t balanced.

 

Denver we started the same way, so the same situation came up. Denver is just so inept that we were able to course correct. 
 

No need to get frustrated. We’re having a conversation. I just don’t agree that you can disregard the game where we were most egregious and not think today wasn’t a total change from that game… hell, I think it was a change from Denver’s start, too. 

[samy316]

31 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think they should let both Chase and Sweat walk in the off season.  Spend your money elsewhere.  They’re not good enough for big money deals.  

I’ve been a proponent of keeping at least one, but after the last few weeks, I’m coming around to the idea of letting them both walk. They just aren’t special enough and they always disappear when it really counts.  It would be a big mistake to shell out money to one, let alone both.  They aren’t worth what they will be demanding.  Both Young & Sweat should kick rocks, and leave after this season.  What would really suck, is them stringing together some good games against inferior opponents coming up like the Bears and Falcons, to suck everyone back in on signing both to long term deals.  They love stat padding against weaker opponents and going ghost against tougher competition.

Edited October 2, 2023 by samy316

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, samy316 said:

I’ve been a proponent of keeping at least one, but after the last few weeks, I’m coming around to the idea of letting them both walk. They just aren’t special enough and they always disappear when it really counts.  It would be a big mistake to shell out money to one, let alone both.  They aren’t worth what they will be demanding.  Both Young & Sweat should kick rocks, and leave after this season.  What would really suck, is them stringing together some good games against inferior opponents coming up like the Bears and Falcons, to suck everyone back in on signing both to long term deals.  They love stat padding against weaker opponents and going ghost against tougher competition.

This is why I wanted to trade Sweat this past off-season. Not because he’s an awful player. He’s solid. But because I didn’t expect us to pay him and thought we could get something in return rather than walk.

 

I’d rather keep Sweat than Young, but we couldn’t really trade Young coming off that injury… 

 

It’s tough to make those decisions, but the best teams manage those situations and get assets for guys who walk more than they don’t.

 

We didn’t move anyone that has a contract that’s up after this season. So anyone we lose we need to hope we get 3rd round comp picks for… but that means not making too many signings, which I’m not sure we can afford, either. 
 

Interesting to think about. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

It’s really hard to be a defense first team in the modern NFL. 9/10, you’re going to get beat by good/great offenses. 
 

I think they’ll be fine going forward against lesser competition. But they will always have a ceiling bc they don’t have a true 1%er stud on defense. That’s the only way to constantly threaten offenses week over week. You need a Bosa, Parson, Garrett. We don’t. We have some good rushers but they don’t wreck games. You need a consistent guy that consistently is forcing turnovers whether that’s through strips or forcing bad throws. 
 

That’s why I didn’t hate drafting Forbes bc even if he’s getting cooked, INTs will change games. Here’s to hoping on that one…

[ananoman]

I’m not sad at all.  There were some positives coming off this loss.  First and foremost, Sam Howell is legit.  We finally have our QB.  EB’s offense can put points on the board.  And things really feel different now that ownership has changed.

 

If this defense can play up to its supposed potential, this team won’t be too far off 

[MartinC]

18 minutes ago, profusion said:

They've over-invested in the DL and underinvested in the rest of the D. Once the play gets past the line, the Commanders look weak. That's a big reason why they can't get off the field on third down.

 

This was a frustrating loss all around. However, it does fit with the Commanders being in the mushy middle of the league.

We were actually really good on 3rd down D today. The Eagles were 4-12 on 3rd down. They did convert both 4th downs though. 

[zCommander]

Still sour about the refs refusal to turn over the call on Terry. 

 

 

 

[NoVaSkins21]

It was going to be hard to get a reversal on that play, especially on the road and in OT.  Refs were going to stick with the call on the field

Edited October 2, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[NoCalMike]

14 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

I would agree, except that it is a very short week and teams are just looking to survive Thursday night games and come out with the W, no matter how ugly. SF beat NYG last week by a solid margin, but it was relatively close entering the final quarter.

 

I think what the good teams have been doing on the TNF games is play a very disciplined (conservative) first half, going into halftime with a small lead or perhaps tied, and then lean on their physicality in the second half to pull away.   I 100% do not think the team should take any opponent lightly because they haven't shown themselves to be good enough for fans to believe they are steam rolling anyone yet, but that is also sort of my bigger point, this team for almost the entire time under Rivera is the kind of team that can go toe to toe with a team like the Eagles, then the very next week either lose or barely beat a bad time.  Some of the baby steps in the process of becoming good I feel like we should have seen by now, yet we haven't really seen this team win many games comfortably in the Rivera era, even when they appear for short stretches to be getting better.

[PeterMP]

26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You said that but last week counts. It was the only game the offense looked absolutely inept and it was due to the fact that we weren’t balanced.

 

Denver we started the same way, so the same situation came up. Denver is just so inept that we were able to course correct. 
 

No need to get frustrated. We’re having a conversation. I just don’t agree that you can disregard the game where we were most egregious and not think today wasn’t a total change from that game… hell, I think it was a change from Denver’s start, too. 

 

If we're actually having a conversation, then this is a point that you should have made like 2 posts ago.

 

We opened last weeks game with 2 rushes in the first 5 plays.  On a 1st and 10, he gets sacked brining up 2nd and 18.  On 2nd and 18, he gets sacked again brining up 3 and 19.  On 3rd and 19, they throw ball (interception).  Obviously, the last play is a pass based on down and distance and even down and distance are affecting the 2nd down play.

 

Next drive, 3 plays.  1 of them a run.  The 3rd down play is 3rd and 8 and so a run is pretty much out of the picture.

Next drive 8 plays 2 of them a run.

 

So we got 19 plays 8 rushes.  So close to 50/50 and some of them are passes simply because of down and distance.

 

This week we opened with a 15 play drive.   5 were running plays.  Next drive is 7 plays, 3 runs.  And one of them is 1st and goal from the 2.

 

We came out trying to run the ball with at least the same emphasis this week as last week. 

 

We got away from the run game when we fell behind.  Which pretty much every team in the NFL does.

Edited October 2, 2023 by PeterMP

[NoCalMike]

4 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Still sour about the refs refusal to turn over the call on Terry. 

 

 

 

 

I've read before that the replay officials have access to every replay and angle we are seeing at home. If that is the case then it is absolutely infuriating that they didn't overturn this call. The hell with "they just went with the call on the field" because that sideline camera clearly shows the foot down in bounds.  I swear I have been saying this for a handful of seasons now but I really think the NFL should switch to how MLB handles replays to where the umps at the game aren't the actual ones reviewing anything, they have replay teams that comb over every possible angle and freeze frame back in their studio to make sure to get things correct. I feel like the NFL has the opposite objective with their replay approach and instead do everything in their power not to overturn the call.  That catch earlier by AJ Brown, could have just as easily been overturned when it looked like the nose of the ball was clearly on the ground and his arm/hand was around it trapping it.   

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

We opened last weeks game with 2 rushes in the first 5 plays.  On 1st and 10, he gets sacked brining up 1st and 18.  On 2nd and 18, he gets sacked again brining up 3 and 19.  On 3rd and 19, they throw ball (interception).  Obviously, the last play is a pass based on down and distance and even down and distance are affecting the 2nd down play.

 

Next drive, 3 plays.  1 of them a run.  The 3rd down play is 3rd and 8 and so a run is pretty much out of the picture.

Next drive 8 plays 2 of them a run.

 

So we got 16 plays 8 rushes.  So 50/50 and some of them are passes simply because of down and distance.

 

This week we opened with a 15 play drive.   5 were running plays.

 

We came out trying to run the ball with at least the same emphasis this week as last week. 

I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s a feel. It’s a commitment and it’s timing. There’s a lot that goes into play calling. It’s also about the kinds of passes called. They were getting hammered the last few weeks with the play calls because of the route concepts. This week their passes were more effective and the runs felt better based on timing and situation. 
 

There was a rhythm today. It felt like there was a plan. Quick passes helped the run. The run helped the quick passes. Screens helped negate the pass rush. It just felt like there was a flow. 
 

Denver second half had that same feeling. Buffalo, 1st half of Denver and part of Arizona didn’t feel that way. 
 

But man, today did.

 

Full disclosure: I’m not sure EB has the discipline to stick to the formula and flow. I think he’s going to go back to trying to force it and then have to adjust back when it could be too little and too late.

[zCommander]

 

 

[Maxito]

24 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Still sour about the refs refusal to turn over the call on Terry. 

 

 

 

So close, but I don't blame them for not reversing the call.  However, soccer uses VAR where they can draw a line to see if a player is offside to the T.  I can see that it is beneficial to have some sort of technology for those close calls that involve the sidelines.  

 

 

[PeterMP]

 

  

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s a feel. It’s a commitment and it’s timing. There’s a lot that goes into play calling. It’s also about the kinds of passes called. They were getting hammered the last few weeks with the play calls because of the route concepts. This week their passes were more effective and the runs felt better based on timing and situation. 
 

There was a rhythm today. It felt like there was a plan. Quick passes helped the run. The run helped the quick passes. Screens helped negate the pass rush. It just felt like there was a flow. 
 

Denver second half had that same feeling. Buffalo, 1st half of Denver and part of Arizona didn’t feel that way. 
 

But man, today did.

 

Full disclosure: I’m not sure EB has the discipline to stick to the formula and flow. I think he’s going to go back to trying to force it and then have to adjust back when it could be too little and too late.

 

There was a rhythm today.  I agree, BECUASE they changed what they did in the passing game.

 

And yes over the course of the game, that made the run game better.  Because they weren't way behind or constantly getting stuck in bad down and distances.

 

I'm not arguing or denying that there was a rhythm.  I can have the same emphasis on the run game and couple it to a quick passing game or a longer passing game.

 

If you want to claim somehow the actual run game was different today other than as dictated by the score or down and distances, you're going to have to back that up with something.  Because I saw essentially the same run game with the same emphasis (with the exception of last week when they were getting blown out), and the stats seem to back me up.

 

But from what I can see this was the same run and screen game that they (tried to) use the first 3 weeks.  (Last week in Buffalo they had to get away from them because they were getting blown out.)  The passing game changed.

 

I'm also not sure if we'll see them stick to it.  The paradigm in the NFL today is that getting chunk plays and preventing them is the key to winning.  Leaning on a short passing game makes it harder to get those chunk plays.  For Howell's development and safety, I hope they keep with it (even if it isn't as successful in future weeks).

Edited October 2, 2023 by PeterMP

[MartinC]

EB called a good game today and we had a good game plan based around getting the ball out of Sam’s hands quickly. 
 

Couple of observations - I’m not a fan of that outside zone out of shotgun. It’s slow to develop and I don’t think Robinson is as effective when he’s running laterally waiting to make a cut.
 

I’d rather than they ran more from under center as well. The reason I say the later first I think Robinson is more effective running downhill. Secondly I noticed the Eagles edge were crashing down hard on the run from the backside today. It was crying out for bootlegs off play action with a high/low. I’d like to see us use Sam’s legs more in the passing game and get him on the move.

[samy316]

4 minutes ago, Maxito said:

So close, but I don't blame them for not reversing the call.  However, soccer uses VAR where they can draw a line to see if a player is offside to the T.  I can see that it is beneficial to have some sort of technology for those close calls that involve the sidelines.  

 

 

Once they called incomplete, it was going to be damn near impossible to get the call overturned, ESPECIALLY on the road.  In that instance, there wasn’t enough overwhelming evidence to reverse the call to a catch.  It sucks, but we weren’t going to get rewarded with a favorable ruling.

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, samy316 said:

Once they called incomplete, it was going to be damn near impossible to get the call overturned, ESPECIALLY on the road.  In that instance, there wasn’t enough overwhelming evidence to reverse the call to a catch.  It sucks, but we weren’t going to get rewarded with a favorable ruling.

 

The blow up of his foot, I posted above, being in was pretty damning evidence though. How do you as a ref look at that and say nope not in?

[88Comrade2000]

Finally moved into new house; so was busy but looked at scores. Saw we were up, then Eagles back and we sent it to OT.

 

It wasn’t a blowout loss and we probably can beat them next time. We probably can go 3-0 before Eagles rematch or at least 2-1; if Danny dimes plays against us like he usually does.

 

I think we will be facing Taylor when we play Atlanta.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

EB called a good game today and we had a good game plan based around getting the ball out of Sam’s hands quickly. 
 

Couple of observations - I’m not a fan of that outside zone out of shotgun. It’s slow to develop and I don’t think Robinson is as effective when he’s running laterally waiting to make a cut. 

I could see Sam making an effort to get rid of the ball on time or quickly today. Very much improved from last week.

 

I noticed the same thing with the outside zone. That should only be called for Gibson. Robinson gets tracked down from the backside before he can get to the hole.