Next Day Thread: Eagles Make Us Sad

[wit33]

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I can't think of anyone here who is so consistently pro status quo regime after regime.  And this leads to a point from me.

 

I operate from spectrum that 70% are mediocre, 20% bad, and 10% are elite. 
 

If you achieve competence at the coaching position, then I’m all in on maintaining continuity above all.
 

So, if we have a competent mediocre coach, go all in on continuity and attempt to hit on an elite QB. 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A.  You were one of the bigger Bruce Allen guys.  And defended most of what he did including the third round pick for Kirk as a job well done

 

I simply chose to acknowledge what he provided the organization from a cap perspective and win/loss record with Kirk and Gruden being average. 
 

Hated the culture and overall attitude he seemed to operate with. 
 

Somewhat related: This is why I loved Alex Smith and spoke about it at nauseam about it when he was here, he spearheaded a culture change in his one season as a player (AP contributed a great deal as well). It was amazing! 

I sometimes disagreed with the level of impact some felt he had on the in season team and would put out the fact playoffs we’re achieved and it should’ve back to back. 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

B.  While you didn't like Snyder, you didn't think Dan Snyder's douche behavior and cheapness, bad facility, etc was a deterrent to attract players.

 

I was tone deaf to the impacts of this due to being a fan that lives in AZ. On the whole, I have very little interest in ownership discussions. Completely own that being a father of a 9 year old who loves basketball that the ownership change from Robert Sarver to Matt Ishbia (Phoenix Suns) has been cool to experience—my son and myself project to have an amazing window to be a Suns fan.
 

I didn’t have this perspective 5-10 years ago. Still lol, ownership talk doesn’t move me much. Too far disconnected for me to feel involved. 
 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

C.  You were pro Jay Gruden.  I was too to an extent, I think he had a better offensive mind that some gave him credit for. 
 

 

Disliked Jay as a leader of men, but thought he did some solid things on offense. Didn’t like his old school approach of my scheme/my way approach but it netted some mediocre results (competing with the 70%). 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

D.  Very pro everything Ron is doing.

 

I was critic early on relating to his approach regarding expectations and was shocked as I thought he had a bit more bite to him. 
 

I’m a huuuuge culture and intangibles guy and feel Ron provides this at an elite level. I’m super high on the talent on roster overall, so that gives me one season longer of leash than you chose to give him—we aren’t on complete ends of the spectrum regarding Ron. 

 

If Ron drafted Cody Mauch and signed Mike McGlinchey you would be on the “good side” of this argument and not with an Eagles fan. 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The only dude you didn't like and wanted gone that I recall was Kirk Cousins.  And judging by your other posts I gather part of that was that he didn't want to be here -- considering for you "here" is a good place to be.  And hence didn't appreciate the mercenery behavior. 
 

 

Disagree with the whole paying average to above  QBs elite dollars model, that model is beginning to get destroyed. 
 

Most here would have Washington employing Derek Carr or Russel Wilson. Eeeek. 
 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get having the back of whomever is running things.  I value consistency.  I am typically a glass half full guy.  I am usually more optimisitc than I should be about the season.  I usually predict 2 wins or so above what they end up winning.  This time, not so.  I am at 8-9.  But its still more optimisitc than the national media.   I did hate Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder so on that front I was very negative.

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And heck if I was cool with Bruce Allen like you were, Ron Rivera in comparison is like Bobby Beathard in his prime on steroids.   He's smarter and way classier than Bruce.   So I get that from that context.  
 

 

This somewhat is my point, I didnt care much if Dan and Bruce were good guys or that Ron appears to be a nice guy. The fact remains, Ron being a nice guy hasn’t netted better win/loss results than Bruce or Gruden (Bad guys). They all fall into mediocre category. I will own that Dan during his tenure meets criteria to be put in the bad category (the 15-20%). 
 

I don’t know these dudes, Ron could be an absolute monster psychologically to his wife behind the scenes, but classy in front of the cameras. My connection as a fan is here on this board, podcasts, and 3 hours on Sundays. 
 

I know a lot of great people who are not good people— Mike Tyson

 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But dude, we can shoot much higher.  We are so mired in this funk of 7-10 to 10-7 (using the 16 game model) and an occasional collapse and occasional playoff one and done appearance.  Ron absolutely can keep that streak alive.  Heck I think he even has it in him to pull of the Gibbs 2 feet -- 2 winning seasons in 4.  He hasn't done it yet.  But I do think he can pull off some B level seasons in the mix of some C seasons.  But my point is lets shoot higher than this dude.

 

I agree with this and completely own being a huge skeptic of finding elite coaches and FO people. Todays celebrated treasure will be trash in the next season or two most likely. 
 

Find me a great head coach or FO without an elite QB. There are some, but it’s slim pickings. might be 5%. Kyle Shannahan, Reid, and Harbaugh are the only difference makers at head coach today. Vrable, Tomlin, and Bill B just below them. 

 

 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll give you that you will take on any argument.  I'll throw this one at you.  The others who defend this regime have not responded to this every time I've thrown it at them.  What fan base would want Ron to be their Czar -- run their FO and coaching.  And if none, why? 
 

 

It’s a fine line and extremely fleeting the perceived value of head coaches. Ron makes the playoffs this season and gets fired, there may be a job available to him. His value is at an all time low and his age works against him. 
 

To be clear, Ron must win this season. Would hate to lose EB (I’m drinking all of the koolaid, even after bad weeks). 

 

On 10/4/2023 at 3:45 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And if Ron has the goods it can play out organically.  Lets see it this season.  And I am not looking for a B level season.  A dude with three C's and a B isn't my high watermark for this franchise.  That would fit enough to the last 20 years or so.  I want better.  Get into the playoffs and win a game.  Ron seems bothered that others stress this is season 4 for him and is judged accordingly.  He shouldn't be bothered, heck yeah it matters that its season 4 for him.  How much of a buildup does the dude need?  He needs to do it now.

 

 

 

The ones with Cs often run the companies that the straight students work for. Something like that, right? Lol

 

Ron is average in many ways, but average combined with consistency and continuity can create elite windows in the NFL. The time is now, no disagreement from me. 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by wit33

[Koolblue13]

20 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Cody Mauch has a 47 out of 100 grade so far, and I haven't found good reviews about his play this year, but I also haven't watched Tampa Bay much this year. Have you? Have you watched any of the prospects you've listed? Are they performing well?

 

 

Those were just some of the many examples you haven't seen, so assume they don't exist.

[Skinsinparadise]

@wit33

 

For me its not about thinking Ron is bad at his job.  I think he's somewhere between average to good at his job.  It's about 2 things.

 

A.  I don't think ANY HC should be running personnel.  It's hard enough to coach a team to also master personnel at the same time.  Some say Belichick is the exception to that rule.  But post Brady, he looks to be a mess on that front.  Both are really hard jobs.  You'd have to be superhuman or a football savant -- elite level savant to master both jobs.  And no I don't think Rivera is that level special.  I am not sure if anyone is.

 

Shanny tried to master both jobs and failed. Arguably Gibbs tried to master both and failed.  I didn't mind it under Dan because heck a coach centric model would help prohbit Dan to be the defacto GM.  But otherwise I hate the model.

 

B.  Josh Harris is IMO the owner we need.   Digesting various narratives.  I am beyond jazzed about him based on various things of heard about him previously but more so about what he's doing now.  He's into getting the best of the best of everything.  Granted just wanting the best of the best doesn't guarantee it happens.  But considering Dan couldn't give a rats behind about the best of the best for the FO -- its a refreshing change.

 

Not only didn't Dan care about who headed the FO -- aside from ensuring that this dude was his BFF and hang out buddy -- but he also was one of the cheapest in terms of paying FO staff.  We were tied for the smallest analytics staff, etc.   As far as procuring talent, Dan seem to think he was the dude to do it and hence he didn't need much help;

 

Harris has the reputation for the opposite.  So lets swing for the fences.  If Ron is indeed this special football savant, elite at both running the FO and coaching, he has this year to prove it.  So far he has not.   Otherwise, I am jazzed for the first time to see an owner to go after dudes who are regarded at elite to running rosters and deal with personnel.  Just because there is a chance he can swing and miss, doesn't make me hesitate to take that swing.  This has been a long time coming.  And I've among others have wanted to see this happen forever.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/22/meet-josh-harris-sixers-owner-revive-commanders

 

That quality, obviously, has been omnipresent in his business career. In 1990 he cofounded Apollo Global Management, a company that, in time, became one of America’s most prominent asset management firms. “Intellectually, he’s off the charts,” says Kraft. “He knows how to surround himself with great operating people and allow them to do what they do. When you’re in the private equity business, that’s really what you do. You structure a deal, and then you turn it over to great operators who are properly incentivized.”

And his success in business has come through more than just his own ability—it’s also, as Kraft says, in his ability to surround himself with the right people and weaponize them.

 

...“I consider him to be an animal, in the most positive of ways,” Rubin says. “Josh, he’s unrelenting. He’s going to do things in the right way.”

And in this particular case, his intensity most certainly won’t be ratcheted down.

 

...“This is somebody, to the extent that fans lose sleep when their team isn’t successful, I promise this guy is gonna lose more sleep than they do,” Silver said. “He takes it all seriously. I’ve talked to him the morning after tough losses, and one of the first things he’ll say to me is, I hardly slept last night. He’s tossing and turning all the time. Ownership of that team is as personal to him as it is to any hardcore fan. I want to assure [Commanders fans], this is not a professional investor coming in to create a portfolio of sports assets. And this team is very unique to him, in terms of the intensity of his fandom.”

  

Edited October 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@wit33

 

For me its not about thinking Ron is bad at his job.  I think he's somewhere between average to good at his job.  It's about 2 things.

 

A.  I don't think ANY HC should be running personnel.  It's hard enough to coach a team to also master personnel at the same time.  Some say Belichick is the exception to that rule.  But post Brady, he looks to be a mess on that front.  Both are really hard jobs.  You'd have to be superhuman or a football savant -- elite level savant to master both jobs.  And no I don't think Rivera is that level special.  I am not sure if anyone is.

 

Shanny tried to master both jobs and failed. Arguably Gibbs tried to master both and failed.  I didn't mind it under Dan because heck a coach centric model would help prohbit Dan to be the defacto GM.  But otherwise I hate the model.

 

B.  Josh Harris is IMO the owner we need.   Digesting various narratives.  I am beyond jazzed about him based on various things of heard about him previously but more so about what he's doing now.  He's into getting the best of the best of everything.  Granted just wanting the best of the best doesn't guarantee it happens.  But considering Dan couldn't give a rats behind about the best of the best for the FO -- its a refreshing change.

 

Not only didn't Dan care about who headed the FO -- aside from ensuring that this dude was his BFF and hang out buddy -- but he also was one of the cheapest in terms of paying FO staff.  We were tied for the smallest analytics staff, etc.   As far as procuring talent, Dan seem to think he was the dude to do it and hence he didn't need much help;

 

Harris has the reputation for the opposite.  So lets swing for the fences.  If Ron is indeed this special football savant, elite at both running the FO and coaching, he has this year to prove it.  So far he has not.   Otherwise, I am jazzed for the first time to see an owner to go after dudes who are regarded at elite to running rosters and deal with personnel.  Just because there is a chance he can swing and miss, doesn't make me hesitate to take that swing.  This has been a long time coming.  And I've among others have wanted to see this happen forever.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/22/meet-josh-harris-sixers-owner-revive-commanders

 

That quality, obviously, has been omnipresent in his business career. In 1990 he cofounded Apollo Global Management, a company that, in time, became one of America’s most prominent asset management firms. “Intellectually, he’s off the charts,” says Kraft. “He knows how to surround himself with great operating people and allow them to do what they do. When you’re in the private equity business, that’s really what you do. You structure a deal, and then you turn it over to great operators who are properly incentivized.”

And his success in business has come through more than just his own ability—it’s also, as Kraft says, in his ability to surround himself with the right people and weaponize them.

 

...“I consider him to be an animal, in the most positive of ways,” Rubin says. “Josh, he’s unrelenting. He’s going to do things in the right way.”

And in this particular case, his intensity most certainly won’t be ratcheted down.

 

...“This is somebody, to the extent that fans lose sleep when their team isn’t successful, I promise this guy is gonna lose more sleep than they do,” Silver said. “He takes it all seriously. I’ve talked to him the morning after tough losses, and one of the first things he’ll say to me is, I hardly slept last night. He’s tossing and turning all the time. Ownership of that team is as personal to him as it is to any hardcore fan. I want to assure [Commanders fans], this is not a professional investor coming in to create a portfolio of sports assets. And this team is very unique to him, in terms of the intensity of his fandom.”

  

Go Washington!! 
 

3-2 here we come!! 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

Go Washington!! 
 

3-2 here we come!! 

If they go on my prediction it’s 4-2 to start the season will see 

[wit33]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If they go on my prediction it’s 4-2 to start the season will see 

Yup, reasonable prediction to start the year. NFL wins are damn hard to come by though. 

[CobraCommander]

These win prognostications are aging quite well. Mediocrity, thy name is Washington Football.