Next Day Thread: Eagles Make Us Sad

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[MartinC]

We've had decent success with 1st rounder in recent times overall.

 

23 - Forbes - way to early to say

22 - Dotson - again early but hes shown signs he can be a quality starter

21 - Jamin Davis - probably over drafted but at least a solid starter.

20 - Chase Young - injuries have impacted and hes not lived up a 2nd overall - but hes a good starter

19 - Haskins (RIP) and Sweat - Haskins busted. Sweat is pushing for a second contract and is a good player who occasionally flashes Pro Bowl level play (but not often enough)

18 - Payne - Pro Bowler

17 - Allen - Pro Bowler

 

Only one clear bust among those picks and a couple of Pro Bowlers along with solid starters. I'm OK with those pick s overall - though its too heavily weighted t o defense and teh lack of an OT is glaring.

 

Its the 2nd rounds that have killed us. Ryan Anderson, Derrius Guice, Sam Cosmi, Phidarian Mathis, Jartavius Martin.

 

Only Cosmi is a current starter.

 

We did get Terry, Ben St Juste and Brian Robinson in round 3, but all those misses in round 2 hurt.

 

 

 

 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

This site has turned into woulda/coulda/shoulda land. 😆

 

I still feel good about Forbes and to a lesser extent about Quan. I thought for sure they had a plan on how to use Quan. I was hoping he would be used in blitz packages/granted his injury makes this more murky. I expect the next DC will put them to good use. 

[MartinC]

46 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

This site has turned into woulda/coulda/shoulda land. 😆

 

Hasnt it always been 🙂

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

This site has turned into woulda/coulda/shoulda land. 😆

 

What are you, the narrator?

[FootballZombie]

It is not surprising that Cosmi and Leno are probably our best linemen.

It is also not surprising that Wylie and Charles are probably our worst.

 

 

I'd absolutely love to know how much input Gates has in terms of setting the protection, to gauge his impact beyond his blocking. That could score him alotta bonus points.

[KDawg]

4 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

This site has turned into woulda/coulda/shoulda land. 😆

 

I still feel good about Forbes and to a lesser extent about Quan. I thought for sure they had a plan on how to use Quan. I was hoping he would be used in blitz packages/granted his injury makes this more murky. I expect the next DC will put them to good use. 

I was never thrilled with the Quan pick. That’s not to say I don’t see some ability… but… I think he was a major reach (I generally dislike the term reach… but I think Quan should have been drafted a round later and by someone not named Commanders.)

Edited October 4, 2023 by KDawg

[wit33]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

This site has turned into woulda/coulda/shoulda land. 😆

 

I still feel good about Forbes and to a lesser extent about Quan. I thought for sure they had a plan on how to use Quan. I was hoping he would be used in blitz packages/granted his injury makes this more murky. I expect the next DC will put them to good use. 

Posters pushing months long pre season agendas into season. Yawn.

 

The offense put up a 30 piece against the vaunted front everyone was terrified about. If Howell turns out to be a stud and the Oline remains healthy, the offense being able to function seems to be the reality. Oline, EB, and Howell responded well (Bills), lets see how the rest of the season goes. 

The last game tying drive I believe was 9 straight passes when Eagles were in position to pin ears back and get the QB. Boom, TD! 

 

[Stihl89]

13 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Posters pushing months long pre season agendas into season. Yawn.

 

The offense put up a 30 piece against the vaunted front everyone was terrified about. If Howell turns out to be a stud and the Oline remains healthy, the offense being able to function seems to be the reality. Oline, EB, and Howell responded well (Bills), lets see how the rest of the season goes. 

The last game tying drive I believe was 9 straight passes when Eagles were in position to pin ears back and get the QB. Boom, TD! 

 

They did have some scoring drives extending by IMO extremely ticky tack penalties. Along with some fortunate bounces on potential turnovers. They seemingly win every single 5050 fumble opportunity 

[Skinsinparadise]

Some of us on the draft thread every year post our guys list -- top 15-20 players who we loved from watching them and these players are likely to go in various rounds in the draft.  And we post it before the draft.  A lot of people post on that draft thread and we don't play the hindsight game -- that's part of the fun.  

 

I know there was another dude aside from me who really dug, Quan.  Forgetting whom.  But Quan was on my guys list.  So was Stromberg from this draft. 

 

But so were a host of other players in different rounds who could have made an impact this season.  We need O line way more than a backup safety.  I think Quan will ultimately be a good player.  But Ron hasn't earned the status of punting basically a full draft to 2024.  

 

I was OK with Forbes but posted that I prefer Gonzalez before the pick came up.  Heck DJ Turner was on my guys list and he's been great and he was picked well after Forbes.   It was a deep draft for CB.

 

I wanted among some others here Ivan Pace badly.  On and on.

 

And this isn't to tout myself.    I am an amateur and just playing around with watching players on youtube.   This is purely a shot at this FO for this last draft, its clear that it did little to stock the cupboard for this season.  And that's not a hindsight is 20-20 take.  Me, @KDawg, @Koolblue13, @DWinzit among others criticized the macro approach to that draft as it was going on. 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

4 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

They did have some scoring drives extending by IMO extremely ticky tack penalties. Along with some fortunate bounces on potential turnovers. They seemingly win every single 5050 fumble opportunity 

It’s the NFL, calls will go with or against you at times. I agree though, 2-3 penalties against the Eagles secondary were very questionable. 
 

Aside from individual plays or fortunate bounces, on the whole, the offense was fine and at times dominated against what looked to be an overmatched Eagles secondary. 31 points against a bad opponent at home is impressive, but to do it against the Eagles at their place is legit. My hope is momentum has been established as an offense and they become a consistent offensive threat. 

Unrelated, but it's nice to see Howell's playmaking success in this game. Hopefully, he sticks to his style and doesn't shift to a more conservative approach for financial reasons. 

 

We’ll see. 

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Posters pushing months long pre season agendas into season. Yawn.

 

The offense put up a 30 piece against the vaunted front everyone was terrified about. If Howell turns out to be a stud and the Oline remains healthy, the offense being able to function seems to be the reality. Oline, EB, and Howell responded well (Bills), lets see how the rest of the season goes. 

The last game tying drive I believe was 9 straight passes when Eagles were in position to pin ears back and get the QB. Boom, TD! 

 

 

Some of the harsher critics of this off season approach, @KDawg, me, @Koolblue13 and I believe @DWinzit too are among the biggest fans of Howell here.  Especially of course @KDawg as to Howell. 

 

And as for pushing months long preseason agendas into the season -- how about the O line defenders?  Most of them took a side, especially the previous week -- is the protection issue the O line or Howell?  We were hearing all week post the Bills game from them that Howell was the problem.  I think this team could give up 20 sacks this Thursday and someone will explain to me among that group that Wylie is much better than I give him credit for, etc.

 

Now Howell had a big game against the Eagles so its quieted down.  😎

 

I am optimistic about Howell.  Part of my issue with the off season is I think Ron didn't do much to help Howell succeed.  Even Keim who is uber polite and reticent to criticize has alluded to the point.  It's a testament to Howell that he's overcome it for the most part -- assuming he can stay healthy while taking this kind of beating.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

The sack/hits numbers have to go down. In a much better general offensive game against the Eagles with a lot of quick game we STILL gave up 5 sacks. At least 3 of those were on the O’line, one was on Gibson and one was maybe on Sam/coverage.

 

That’s on a pace for 85 sacks in a season - and we are running ahead of that pace. Sam is a tough dude, but it’s long odds on him staying healthy through 17 games if this continues. 

[Chachie]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

Chip Lohmiller career average - 71.8% success rate. (His single season high was 75%).

 

Joey Slye career average - 82.4% success rate. (His single season high 87.5%)

 

Chip had 284 career kicks versus Joey 131 and counting, so larger sample size. But still.

 

 

 

 

But how did you FEEL before a Lohmiller kick?  😁

 

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, Chachie said:

 

 

But how did you FEEL before a Lohmiller kick?  😁

 

Relaxed. We were normally 3 TDs up! 😀

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some of the harsher critics of this off season approach, @KDawg, me, @Koolblue13 and I believe @DWinzit too are among the biggest fans of Howell here.  Especially of course @KDawg as to Howell. 
 

 

Not sure I’ve heard of many against Howell, easy talent and story to root for. 
 

I’ve been bullish since watching his run ability and looking like and combination of Mike Alstott and Wes Welker his last season with NC. Enjoying the process of learning about what appears to be high intangibles. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And as for pushing months long preseason agendas into the season -- how about the O line defenders?  Most of them took a side, especially the previous week -- is the protection issue the O line or Howell?  We were hearing all week post the Bills game from them that Howell was the problem.  I think this team could give up 20 sacks this Thursday and someone will explain to me among that group that Wylie is much better than I give him credit for, etc.

 

I own naturally leaning towards rooting for the best outcomes for the team, but nothing I’ve watched leads me to believe the offensive line is some sort of deterrent so large the offense can’t function.
 

The offense has displayed a level of continuity, rhythm, and an attacking style rarely seem around these parts over last 30 years. Also, I’ve seen “good” Washington Olines be a part of terrible run and pass offenses over the years.
 

Scheme and QB above all! 
 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Now Howell had a big game against the Eagles so its quieted down.  😎
 

 

The loudest is the detractors relating to the Oline lol

 

Waiting for you to post one positive thing relating to the offense or Oline. 
 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am optimistic about Howell.  Part of my issue with the off season is I think Ron didn't do much to help Howell succeed.  Even Keim who is uber polite and reticent to criticize has alluded to the point.  It's a testament to Howell that he's overcome it for the most part -- assuming he can stay healthy while taking this kind of beating.

 

I disagree about Ron not doing much to help Howell succeed. Howell “having to overcome” is wild to me. His playmaking is elite and will consistently appear to be overcoming in games no matter the situation at Oline IMO. 

 

-Retaining Samuel and Thomas are the “aggressive” free agent signings.

 

-4 of the top 10 paid players on roster are offensive players (Leno, Thomas, Samuel, and Mcclaurin =18% of the cap). 

 

-The biggest IMO, hiring EB as OC. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Not sure I’ve heard of many against Howell, easy talent and story to root for. 

 

Not so much against Howell, but that he's the problem, not the O line.  Just read the Howell thread among other places the previous week.  Some couched it saying its on Howell but hey he's a young QB so you'd expect that.  Some couched it by saying Ron shouldn't have put his 4th year on Howell because these struggles will happen, etc.  Same people claim that the O line is fine and claimed that beforehand.

 

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I own naturally leaning towards rooting for the best outcomes for the team, but nothing I’ve watched leads me to believe the offensive line is some sort of deterrent so large the offense can’t function.

 

The O line has been terrific.  Every team that they've played have had their best game of the season against this O line.  That's not hyperbole but fact.  But your comments help make my point thanks.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

The loudest is the detractors relating to the Oline lol

 

 

If you told both groups (O line is an issue, O line isn't an issue) before the season that we'd be on an historic pace for giving up sacks and pressures.   I think even the pro-O line group would be say heck of course we were wrong.  The fact that this is even a debate requires some incredible mental acrobatics from the pro O line group. 

 

It would be like me arguing that a QB isn't turnover prone.  See that QB not only lead the league in picks but is poised to set a record doing that and then I'd argue that I was right all along and this dude isn't really turnover prone or at least its debatable.  I'd look silly doing that.  That's my analogy to this.  If people want to argue its bad but it could get better -- that's fine.  But to argue it hasn't been bad so far is really wild to me.   

 

I get people wanting to look right.  But my take is who gives a rats behind about that.  We are all right about some things and wrong about others.  I don't get why its hard to admit when you are wrong.  There is nothing the O liine has done, at least nothing yet, to show hey we had nothing to worry about this off season.

 

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

The offense has displayed a level of continuity, rhythm, and an attacking style rarely seem around these parts over last 30 years. Also, I’ve seen “good” Washington Olines be a part of terrible run and pass offenses over the years.
 

Scheme and QB above all!

 

You got a unique take among the O line defenders.  Part of your point has centered on the O line not being that important.  I don't get that but at least you are consistent.  Eagles are dummies among other teams for emphasizing the spot?  Logan Paulsen on his podcast for example defended our defensive line for not bringing much pressure on Hurts by saying do you realize how good that offensive line is so in that context they did well? 

 

So how about having a unit that can mitigate a ferocious D line like ours?  Yawn?  Of course the QB is most important.  But when you have a young QB especially, you can't have him get hit 100 times a season, they might not last that way.  Imagine Howell with a wall protecting him like Hurts.  

 

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Waiting for you to post one positive thing relating to the offense or Oline. 
 

 

 

You'll keep waiting on the O line as a unit.  As for the offense I've posted plenty.  I'd have to be top 5 as posting pro Howell stuff here including having his back after the Buffalo game.  I was one of the more positive people on the Bieineimy hire and I've praised both plenty.

 

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

I disagree about Ron not doing much to help Howell succeed. Howell “having to overcome” is wild to me. His playmaking is elite and will consistently appear to be overcoming in games no matter the situation at Oline IMO. 

 

-Retaining Samuel and Thomas are the “aggressive” free agent signings.

 

-4 of the top 10 paid players on roster are offensive players (Leno, Thomas, Samuel, and Mcclaurin =18% of the cap). 

 

-The biggest IMO, hiring EB as OC. 

 

Even Ron said early in the off season, the best thing you can do for a young QB is to protect him.  But considering you don't think the O line is a big deal, those words whether he stuck to them or not I gather won't resonate with you.  He has taken 5 out of 7 of his first and 2nd round picks in hs tenure for defense.  He doubled down on it this draft.  Didn't take a TE in one of the most TE rich drafts we've ever seen.  And that position is already looking thin.

 

Your argument helps make my point.   The idea that he didn't release his one veteran TE isn't some badge of honor to me.  So using your math, then 6 out of ten isn't offense.  This isn't the 1980s anymore.  Heck going back to Logan Paulsen who by a mile is Ron's biggest defender, i don't blame him considering he works for him, said the other day, something plenty of us say, defense doesn't win games for you in this decade, a good defense can contain to an extent a good offense but can't stop it or rarely does.  He used that to defend the defense's performance against the Eagles prolific offense.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

I disagree about Ron not doing much to help Howell succeed. Howell “having to overcome” is wild to me. His playmaking is elite and will consistently appear to be overcoming in games no matter the situation at Oline IMO. 

 

-Retaining Samuel and Thomas are the “aggressive” free agent signings.

 

-4 of the top 10 paid players on roster are offensive players (Leno, Thomas, Samuel, and Mcclaurin =18% of the cap). 

 

-The biggest IMO, hiring EB as OC. 

 

I can't think of anyone here who is so consistently pro status quo regime after regime.  And this leads to a point from me.

 

A.  You were one of the bigger Bruce Allen guys.  And defended most of what he did including the third round pick for Kirk as a job well done

 

B.  While you didn't like Snyder, you didn't think Dan Snyder's douche behavior and cheapness, bad facility, etc was a deterrent to attract players.

 

C.  You were pro Jay Gruden.  I was too to an extent, I think he had a better offensive mind that some gave him credit for. 

 

D.  Very pro everything Ron is doing.

 

The only dude you didn't like and wanted gone that I recall was Kirk Cousins.  And judging by your other posts I gather part of that was that he didn't want to be here -- considering for you "here" is a good place to be.  And hence didn't appreciate the mercenery behavior. 

 

I get having the back of whomever is running things.  I value consistency.  I am typically a glass half full guy.  I am usually more optimisitc than I should be about the season.  I usually predict 2 wins or so above what they end up winning.  This time, not so.  I am at 8-9.  But its still more optimisitc than the national media.   I did hate Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder so on that front I was very negative.

 

And heck if I was cool with Bruce Allen like you were, Ron Rivera in comparison is like Bobby Beathard in his prime on steroids.   He's smarter and way classier than Bruce.   So I get that from that context.  

 

But dude, we can shoot much higher.  We are so mired in this funk of 7-10 to 10-7 (using the 16 game model) and an occasional collapse and occasional playoff one and done appearance.  Ron absolutely can keep that streak alive.  Heck I think he even has it in him to pull of the Gibbs 2 feet -- 2 winning seasons in 4.  He hasn't done it yet.  But I do think he can pull off some B level seasons in the mix of some C seasons.  But my point is lets shoot higher than this dude.

 

I'll give you that you will take on any argument.  I'll throw this one at you.  The others who defend this regime have not responded to this every time I've thrown it at them.  What fan base would want Ron to be their Czar -- run their FO and coaching.  And if none, why? 

 

And if Ron has the goods it can play out organically.  Lets see it this season.  And I am not looking for a B level season.  A dude with three C's and a B isn't my high watermark for this franchise.  That would fit enough to the last 20 years or so.  I want better.  Get into the playoffs and win a game.  Ron seems bothered that others stress this is season 4 for him and is judged accordingly.  He shouldn't be bothered, heck yeah it matters that its season 4 for him.  How much of a buildup does the dude need?  He needs to do it now.

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Agree with this point below, if they are going to make the playoffs, this is the run.  I had them at 8-9 but also had them start 4-2, the season is favorable early they got to take advantage of it. 

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

I want 11 wins this year. 

[CobraCommander]

53 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I want 11 wins this year. 

I want a pony! 
 

It’s probably a long shot. We will have to win the majority of our divisional games which at this point seems like a tall order. We will probably lose on of the Giants games just because and who knows how we will fare against the Cowboys. If we only end up with 3 wins out of those, fahgetaboutit.

Edited October 4, 2023 by CobraCommander

[Warhead36]

We will be 5-2 heading into the rematch with Philly at FedEx. Mark it down.

[Chris 44]

11 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

I want a pony! 
 

It’s probably a long shot. We will have to win the majority of our divisional games which at this point seems like a tall order. We will probably lose on of the Giants games just because and who knows how we will fare against the Cowboys. If we only end up with 3 wins out of those, fahgetaboutit.

To have a shot at a wildcard we need to al least beat NY twice and split with both Dallas and Philly. That's just to have a shot, beating the Bears, Falcons and Pats then gives us 9 wins. Possible toss up other wins are Rams, Jets and Seahawks. Probable losses seem to be Dolphins, 49ers.

[Captain James]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

We will be 5-2 heading into the rematch with Philly at FedEx. Mark it down.

This is where I've thought we'd be too. For a hot minute there it looked like we could have taken the first one from Philly. Hopefully we bring them to poundtown next time around at FedEx.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I want 11 wins this year. 

You get to 10, you put yourself in good position. 11 is just the cherry on top.