Next Day Thread: Eagles Make Us Sad

[Koolblue13]

[Panninho]

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Didn't buy the Giants hype in the offseason and also argued some here that I will believe the Giants are a serious team when I see it on the field. I felt they were a really bad team last year that just squeezed by and then ran into a similarly overrated Vikings team in the playoffs. Granted, they won that game, which is more than we have accomplished since forever but they are still who we thought they were...as is Daniel Jones. Their o-line is still horrible, they have no receivers and their coaching staff doesn't look that hot either. They might legitimately be the worst team in the NFL if it wasn't for the Bears.

 

...yet somehow we are probably going to lay an egg against them again...

Edited October 3, 2023 by Panninho

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I liked their off season aggressiveness in attacking the WR and CB spot.  But when someone asked me before the season what did I think about their season -- i wasn't as high as you were for one reason -- their O line.  I said I would be hypocrtical to say this team is limited by their O line without saying that team is limited, too.   Also while I am not as down on Daniel Jones as some are, I also don't think he's good.  So so.  But so so looks worse than that when the O line sucks and no Barkley.

 

Looks like Evan Neal sucks.   Andrew Thomas has been out.  They lost JMS yesterday.  No Barkley for most of the season.  If I recall they had the 2nd most injuries in the league last year, and they are headed that way again.

 

Aside from the Cardinals game their schedule is brutal early.  They now have Miami and Buffalo on deck after already playing Dallas and SF.  Their first in their minds easy must win game is beating their punching bag team that they strangely own Washington. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked their off season aggressiveness in attacking the WR and CB spot.  But when someone asked me before the season what did I think about their season -- i wasn't as high as you were for one reason -- their O line.  I said I would be hypocrtical to say this team is limited by their O line without saying that team is limited, too.   Also while I am not as down on Daniel Jones as some are, I also don't think he's good.  So so.  But so so looks worse than that when the O line sucks and no Barkley.

 

Looks like Evan Neal sucks.   Andree Thomas has been out.  They lost JMS yesterday.  No Barkley for most of the season.  If I recall they had the 2nd most injuries in the league last year, and they are headed that way again.

 

Aside from the Cardinals game their schedule is brutal early.  They now have Miami and Buffalo on deck after already playing Dallas and SF.  Their first in their minds easy must win game is beating their punching bag team that they strangely own Washington. 

Yeah, guess I was pretty wrong about how their season was gonna go. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

When you pay a "not good" QB 40 million dollars a year that will lead to problems. And the Giants have huge problems.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Panninho said:

Didn't buy the Giants hype in the offseason and also argued some here that I will believe the Giants are a serious team when I see it on the field. I felt they were a really bad team last year that just squeezed by and then ran into a similarly overrated Vikings team in the playoffs. Granted, they won that game

 

Too bad that overrated team, the Vikings beat us at home last year.   It was part of the reason why i was out on Heinicke. 

 

If I had to pick the reasons for their slow start -- brutal early schedule.  Daniel Jones still isn't good.  They are nothing without Barkley.  Didn't he have like 60% of their touches last year on offense.

 

Their O line is shaky like ours but its even shakier without their one stud, Andrew Thomas.  

 

 

[Panninho]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Too bad that overrated team, the Vikings beat us at home last year.   It was part of the reason why i was out on Heinicke. 

 

If I had to pick the reasons for their slow start -- brutal early schedule.  Daniel Jones still isn't good.  They are nothing without Barkley.  Didn't he have like 60% of their touches last year on offense.

 

Their O line is shaky like ours but its even shakier without their one stud, Andrew Thomas.  

 

 

 

Yeah, we almost beat the Vikings with Taylor Heinicke. Should tell you everything about that Vikings team. They went 11-3 I think and no one could explain how that happened. And this year you can see that they are regressing hard to the mean (even though they obviously are not 100% the same team).

Edited October 3, 2023 by Panninho

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, guess I was pretty wrong about how their season was gonna go. 

 

Looking that way.  Season is young.  Their schedule is like the opposite of ours.  For them its staggered incredibly hard early and eases up in the 2nd half.   

 

I predicted 8-9 for this team but with a 4-2 start.  I love how the schedule is set up early.  Every game has so far gone as I predicted as to wins-losses.  I do think the Giants beat us in NY.  Or here.  I can't see us sweeping them.  That team has owned us the way Dallas and the Eagles own them.

 

The caveat is Barkley needs to be back for them to have success.  That offense seems to be predicated on BOTH Jones and Barkley running.  They are a handful together for some teams to stop -- this being one of those teams albiet the Eagles-Cowboys have no problem stopping that team.

 

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

When you pay a "not good" QB 40 million dollars a year that will lead to problems. And the Giants have huge problems.  

 

A sneaky one is that turf which is a story around the league.  It feels a lot like 2012 when opposing players were complaining about all the injuries at Fedex.  

 

That team has freaky level number of injuries.    Not to jinx this team but we've seemed to do better on that front once they made major improvements to the field

Edited October 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Looking that way.  Season is young.  Their schedule is like the opposite of ours.  For them its staggered incredibly hard early and eases up in the 2nd half.   

 

I predicted 8-9 for this team but with a 4-2 start.  I love how the schedule is set up early.  Every game has so far gone as I predicted as to wins-losses.  I do think the Giants beat us in NY.  Or here.  I can't see us sweeping them.  That team has owned us the way Dallas and the Eagles own them.

 

The caveat is Barkley needs to be back for them to have success.  That offense seems to be predicated on BOTH Jones and Barkley running.  They are a handful together for some teams to stop -- this being one of those teams albiet the Eagles-Cowboys have no problem stopping that team.

 

 

A sneaky one is that turf which is a story around the league.  It feels a lot like 2012 when opposing players were complaining about all the injuries at Fedex.  

 

That team has freaky level number of injuries.    Not to jinx this team but we've seemed to do better on that front once they made major improvements to the field

FedEx was grass, however. The whole “turf is better” thing is getting interesting. I agree, that in the NFL, grass that has a great team taking care of it is far better.

 

But if you have a ****ty crew or a ****ty owner grass can be an issue, too. Owners should be required to invest in the playing surface or they get fined for more than the crew would cost. 
 

It’s getting a little carried away though nationally. People think grass would be better in all situations. I can tell you that the grass Hs fields in my area are awful. Pot holes, large crowns, dead spots, etc. in a lot of the US, a turf field is better for HS athletics.

 

Colleges are completely in between. Well off colleges should have grass. Others should use turf. 
 

But the NFL should have well maintained grass. 
 

Sorry for the rant.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

Yeah, we almost beat the Vikings with Taylor Heinicke. Should tell you everything about that Vikings team. They went 11-3 I think and no one could explain how that happened. And this year you can see that they are regressing hard to the mean (even though they obviously are not 100% the same team).

 

Regardless of context.  We haven't won a playoff game in like 17 years.    They had a winning season with a new coaching staff, which Ron hasn't enjoyed yet.  They won 11 games not eons ago -- something we haven't in 30 plus years.   And they've owned this team head to head.  So through the dark Giant years sadly they've arguably still enjoyed highlights we haven't.

 

Part of my angst about the O line centers on the Giants ironically.  I'd say it on the draft thread for years -- look at the Giants and their down years -- what's the theme?  Offensive line.  They used to have a good one.  But have struggled with rebuilding it forever.  

 

I liked their draft and some of their off season moves and lauded them for it.  But right before the season when I was asked what do I think about how their season was going to go.  I said I don't know about that team because when your O line sucks, your team typically is bad.  And that's before the Andrew Thomas injury.  Now it looks like JMS, too. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

As for Daniel Jones that contract they have to live with this season and next, then they can escape it.  The painful part of reading that is I expect them to go 1-5 leading up to the game against us -- and naturally it will all come together for them that Sunday.  

 

https://nypost.com/2023/10/03/brian-daboll-has-a-giants-crisis-on-his-hands-after-seahawks-loss/

 

But more than anything, an offensive line is missing, and because an offensive line is missing, a $40M quarterback is missing.

Neither Jones nor Daboll nor offensive coordinator Mike Kafka have shown that they can overcome this ruptured Achilles’ heel.

 

...He would probably give his $40M to find offensive linemen that would enable him to function the way he is expected to function. With Saquon Barkley inactive, Jones (66 yards) was the Giants’ leading rusher.

 

...LT Andrew Thomas (hamstring) is indispensable, but this is ridiculous. And inexcusable.

“We’re a lot better than what we’ve shown,” Evan Neal said.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[UK Skins]

22 hours ago, UK Skins said:

Some excellent discussion as always. One thing I wanted to throw in there was the comment fairly near the beginning of the game that our special teams were the worst (or one of the worst don't remember exactly) in the league. I know we have had snapping problems but he went on to talk about coverages too. Our STs are usually pretty good, anyone have any idea what he was talking about?

 

Sorry for the repost but I didn't get a single response 😢 and would really like to know what they were talking about. Perhaps some of our analysts have an idea. It's not just the bad snaps from the way it was phrased.

[Warhead36]

The Giants aren't very good and were a prime candidate for regression, but they've also faced a brutal opening schedule and it only gets tougher with the Dolphins and Bills on the road the next two weeks. But the thing is, they've been completely blown out in all those games, and heck were getting blown out by the Cardinals until a 2nd half miracle. It'd be like imagine if we had our Bills-like performance every week, but unlike the Giants we actually bounced back and played competitively in Philadelphia. 

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Listening to Paulsen among others talk abiout Barton, he's apparently struggled to pick up the scheme and seems a beat behind in his run stopping assignments

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing. it doesn't surprise me to hear he is struggling in the scheme. Lets call it like it is: Barton is playing uphill. Its obvious to this laymen he is not being allowed to play downhill. At all. Who is the leagues best uphill backer, not allowed to play downhill? Lets grade Barton against HIM and not trust PFF.

 

Jamin is our downhill backer and even that seems far more rare than I see on other teams.  Defensive players are aggressive by their nature and I think its clear JDR is not using the back 7 to their strengths. And probably not the front 4 to some degree, like dropping them into coverage.  I hated when we would do that with Kerrigan and hate it today still. It's not fooling QBs its JDR fooling himself. Backs TEs and WRs just run circles around them. All the aggressive players on D are stuck largely playing shell contain.

 

On the eagles final drive we had to hold the FG line. Instead on that fateful play JDR had his DBs in deeeeep quarters and gave Jalen an easy play to get in FG range.

 

I will say it again bringing in Will Jackson shows what a cluster**** our defensive coaching is, their inability to grade players for his scheme, and with those failures, the scheme itself. Seems like they really struggled with Landon Collins. It took them months to figure out to let him attack. Thinking they can coach up players - aka change them is very risky. Like Jamin thinking we can mold him into a super backer. Next time lets draft a 1st round LB that already is what we need.  We are still paying for that Will Jackson mistake to the tune of a 9M cap hit.  We had to trade him to have a functioning defense??? Its crazy.

 

EDIT: Seems like they really struggled with using Landon Collins an proven NFL SS. It took them months to figure out to let him attack but Jack clearly hated that. We are still paying 5M for that personnel bad fit mistake as well.

Edited October 3, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Warhead36]

14 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

 

I will say it again bringing in Will Jackson shows what a cluster**** our defensive coaching is, their inability to grade players for his scheme, and with those failures, the scheme itself. Thinking they can coach up players - aka change them is very risky. Like Jamin thinking we can mold him into a super backer. Next time lets draft a 1st round LB that already is what we need.  We are still paying for that Will Jackson mistake to the tune of a 9M cap hit.  We had to trade him to have a functioning defense??? Its crazy.

I've always felt like every year there is a disconnect between the secondary and the rest of the defense in terms of coaching. Its like one coach wants to do one thing and one wants to do another. But then by midseason they figure it out and play mostly good clean football the rest of the way. 

[RandyHolt]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I've always felt like every year there is a disconnect between the secondary and the rest of the defense in terms of coaching. Its like one coach wants to do one thing and one wants to do another. But then by midseason they figure it out and play mostly good clean football the rest of the way. 

There is evidence to back that up. I saw a tweet go by the other day - average points allowed games 1-4 by year under JDR. Every damn year our out of the Jack in the Box defense is atrocious. And then games 5-16 improves significantly. If your defense is not strong to start the year its proof everything instilled and practiced for in camp... is a failure. Too complicated? For a team returning most of its players... nope. Slow to adjust perhaps...

 

Anyone remember what JDR starts doing week 5 every year that is different... burning his playbook?  I will be on watch this week. Facing a mobile turnover prone QB may tie his hands some but its gotta be moving up players to the LOS / attacking more.

Edited October 3, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Warhead36]

Del Rio's biggest fault is overrating and overrelying on the front four to generate pressure all the time. Against weaker foes like Arizona and Denver it'll work, but against strong fronts like Buffalo and Philly you gotta help em out more by scheming up pressure. 

 

I mean I get the premise. If you can win with just four your chances of success are sky high. But the DL isn't that dominant. Not against good teams at least. We've seen enough evidence of that for 3+ years now.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

When you read about the best front offices, Seattle is often mentioned top 5 around the league.  Not just John Schenider but apparently he has some well regarded evaluators working under him.  Years back they had 2-3 meh drafts but really bounced back frorm that -- they've drafted well recently 

 

OL has been Schneider's kryptonite.  It's the one position he doesn't draft well aside from the occasional first round stinker like LJ Collier or Rashaad Penny.  Okung, Carpenter, and Ifedi were some of their worst draft picks, but they dealt with the QB, CB, and DL positions so incredibly well outside of the first round, that it hasn't held them back.  Looks like they might have finally gotten off the schneid with Cross thought.

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, MartinC said:

Yep. I get Eli, but Peyton seems to something of a Giants fan as well.

 

Enjoyed their coverage though. 

I think he’s just rooting for his brother’s team.  Eli did the same when they were covering both the Colts and Broncos.

 

Kindof cool.  Though it would have been fun schtick if the other brother took the other side just to needle each other.

 

But it seems like the just root for each other’s teams.  

[RandyHolt]

For all the hate Barton gets maybe its good to acknowledge we don't bleed production TEs like we have in the past. At least in the center of the field where he seems to spend a lot of time. We used to always have HUGE holes in the center of the field. For years. Sure we still give up 30 points a game or whatever but TEs haven't done dick vs us this year and I bet him playing uphill is a factor.  And its not all Barton who just drops there but its more of a scheme adjustment. I can't give JDR credit until the D stops bleeding though.

 

 

I just stumbled upon this but you can see Barton in TE coverage. JDR clearly got the memo do not let TEs beat us. Goedert looked triple covered.

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

OL has been Schneider's kryptonite.  It's the one position he doesn't draft well aside from the occasional first round stinker like LJ Collier or Rashaad Penny.  Okung, Carpenter, and Ifedi were some of their worst draft picks, but they dealt with the QB, CB, and DL positions so incredibly well outside of the first round, that it hasn't held them back.  Looks like they might have finally gotten off the schneid with Cross thought.

 

Not bad at WR and LB over the years.    What intrigues me about that FO is according to people around the league, Schenider has some stud underlings working under him.  Of course I got no clue personally one way another.  But I am intrigued by the idea of this FO being run by a stud personnel type.

 

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-front-offices-nfl-rankings/

 

10) Seattle Seahawks

General manager: John Schneider

Schneider’s 2012 draft class — which included Russell Wilson, Bobby Waggner, and Bruce Irvin — is the stuff of legends, and the Seahawks’ general manager hit another home run a decade later.

Seattle’s first six picks in the 2022 draft — Charles Cross, Boye Mafe, Kenneth Walker III, Abraham Lucas, Coby Bryant, and Tariq Woolen — were all contributors in their rookie campaign. This is the type of class that can set up a team to contend for an extended window.

And we haven’t even mentioned Schneider’s biggest offseason coup: trading Wilson to the Broncos for a package of picks and players before turning things over to Geno Smith, who posted the best season of his career. Wilson’s career has come off the tracks in Denver, and Schneider’s decision to move on from the veteran quarterback may go down as one of the best trades in NFL history.

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

[samy316]

57 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think he’s just rooting for his brother’s team.  Eli did the same when they were covering both the Colts and Broncos.

 

Kindof cool.  Though it would have been fun schtick if the other brother took the other side just to needle each other.

 

But it seems like the just root for each other’s teams.  

 

I think people forget that Daniel Jones has a personal  relationship to the Mannings that goes back several years, and they personally vouched for Daniel Jones to all the scouts the year he was drafted.  They're actually the reason why he went Top 10 to the Giants.  Giants fans should be blaming both Peyton & Eli for trapping them with DJ for the next 4 years 😄

 

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/prospect-profiles-working-with-the-manning-brothers-has-prepared-daniel-jones

 

[Chachie]

The Eagles didn't make ME sad. Not one bit. I thought we'd get slaughtered. 

 

Friends, this entire season is about ONE player. The last TRUE franchise quarterback Washington had was Mark Rypien. (For me personally, Mark Brunell was damn close but that's another discussion.) Now we are watching one develop in Sam Howell. 

 

Week in and week out, all season long, win or lose, there's only ONE important thing to take from every game. "Did Sam Howell play well?" That's it. The offseason will be about who will coach the team in the future. The offseason will be about a potential new team name. THIS TEAM NEEDS A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK NOW.

 

That end-of-regulation drive on Sunday in Philadelphia? That was a franchise QB scoring drive. The fact that we came back with good offensive play after the Buffalo debacle and the fact that we came back to tie that game in Philly with NO TIME ON THE CLOCK are the only things I carry in my heart from Sunday. All positive.