A new new start! All things Josh Harris and new ownership group.

[hail2skins]

Just saw the post that Mark Kessler is leaving. Man, Harris is winning off the field already with the departure of that clown. Even though Phil Hochberg is like 83, the team should at least see if he'd be up to coming back.

 

Edit: looks like Mark Fratto, who's been the Wiz PA guy for a few years, is getting the gig

Edited August 5, 2023 by hail2skins

[dyst]

@Skinsinparadise - I’m not sure how payroll in the NFL works but I wonder if he became cheap over time because he was cash strapped. Maybe he wanted to spend but couldn’t anymore. Which is probably a good thing because he would screw that up too.

[Conn]

2 hours ago, Die Hard said:

Agreed. Wright seemed to infer that EB has been the biggest facilitator of cultural change in the building in this process. Reading between the lines, moreso than Ron.

 

 

I won’t take away from Rivera being a nice guy. And I have plenty of skeptical thoughts about EB and think most of the future HC stuff is bunk.

 

But if we come out on offense prepared and disciplined and pound teams with good energy and aggression and poise this season…it would be pretty tough to credit that to Rivera. It would be very easy to give that to EB, given we’ve constantly been a slow-starting, non-urgent, undisciplined mess under Rivera most weeks in the past. The team doesn’t quit under Rivera and it’s tough, but it’s not at all an enviable example of showing discipline or bending other teams to their will. Poor strategic decisions, poor gameplanning decisions, poor situational decision-making and poor clock, challenge, and timeout management. 
 

None of this is roster building or FO criticism. This is purely on the field between the whistles stuff that Rivera the “leader of men” has struggled with for years now. I’ve been saying it for years anytime someone says his problem is just how he’s building the roster—as if his abilities as a HC on gameday are not in question. They very much are. 
 

So yeah. If our fortunes change in a big way this year (especially on offense) it’ll be tough to credit Rivera with it. Especially since Turner was his guy, his hire after he let a future HC playcaller go. So you can’t just say it was all Turner’s fault either. 
 

I don’t foresee us having to worry about this discussion of splitting credit though. There probably won’t be enough credit to go around to fight over it. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Conn

[dyst]

I am thankful for Rivera. Every coach would fail here under the old owner but at least Rivera kept it classy while not succeeding. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by dyst

[RVAskins]

56 minutes ago, dyst said:

@Skinsinparadise - I’m not sure how payroll in the NFL works but I wonder if he became cheap over time because he was cash strapped. Maybe he wanted to spend but couldn’t anymore. Which is probably a good thing because he would screw that up too.

 

I think the previous owner gave up on the team a long time ago. He just used the team to support his lifestyle and did not try to make the team or fan experience better.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, dyst said:

@Skinsinparadise - I’m not sure how payroll in the NFL works but I wonder if he became cheap over time because he was cash strapped. Maybe he wanted to spend but couldn’t anymore. Which is probably a good thing because he would screw that up too.

 

That likely made it worse.  But as Keim has pointed out this year in multiple podcasts, Bruce brought a lot of that frugality to the culture and he and Dan tag teamed that approach.  And Keim has strongly hinted that Bruce's frugality that emcompassed just about everything including payroll and the lack of upgrades to the stadium, etc, contributed to the poor morale in that building.

 

Keim has obliterated Bruce again and again which I've mentioned previously is a fun listen for me because Keim is typically so polite.

 

But they veered to become very cheap during the Bruce regime.

 

Not that you needed to be Nostradmaus to predict this (albiet me and others got some feisty pushback on this point at the time) that if you add Dan's douche personality and incompetence to Bruce is likeminded incompetence and over the top frugality -- the team would ultmately crash with the fans.

 

IMO we got to thank Bruce somewhat for Dan's demise.  Having a Batman and Robin combination of incompetence, sleaze and arrogance with a heavy dose of boring and frugality and the Titanic was bound to hit that iceberg. 

 

In short, Dan and Vinny were buffoons in combination but there was at times a fun component to their off seasons, etc.  Bruce helped take the fun out of it and made the off seasons boring and kept the buffonery, added to the sleaze with an empty suit component to the flavor.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

IMO we got to thank Bruce somewhat for Dan's demise.

 

While there may be some truth to that, at the end of the day, the previous owner was the owner and I think he just didn't care anymore and basically checked out. Everything that the Commanders became falls on his shoulders.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

 

While there may be some truth to that, at the end of the day, the previous owner was the owner and I think he just didn't care anymore and basically checked out. Everything that the Commanders became falls on his shoulders.

 

Don't get me wrong its all on Dan.  But the attendance decline, fans checking out started during Bruce's regime.  Heck arguably the bromance gone bad between Dan and Bruce likely spearheaded the Congressional investigation -- most do think Dan leaked those emails to embarass Bruce.

 

Keim isn't the type to flame throw for no reason.  He's put a lot of the team's issues pre Rivera at Bruce's feat including the poor morale in that building and the decaying stadium.

 

We also got to be thankful for Bruce's incompetence in landing the stadium.  If you recall for years the narrative was he was kept around for that reason. 

 

Dan hired the buffoon so it's on him.  But to double down on the point, Dan's cheapiness has been imputed by many to Bruce.  I am not exactly going on a limb with that point. 

 

 

 

[RVAskins]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Dan hired the buffoon so it's on him.  But to double down on the point, Dan's cheapiness has been imputed by many to Bruce.  I am not exactly going on a limb with that point. 

 

I agree that Bruce had a lot to do with the state of the franchise but how does an owner surround himself with so many incompetent people or people who are just in over their head. Bruce, Vinny, Zorn, Spurrier, et all. At the end of the day, the previous owner put the team on the path to failure.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

 

I agree that Bruce had a lot to do with the state of the franchise but how does an owner surround himself with so many incompetent people or people who are just in over their head. Bruce, Vinny, Zorn, Spurrier, et all. At the end of the day, the previous owner put the team on the path to failure.

 

Again, its 100% on Dan.

 

I think its funny whenever Sheehan says he heard Dan tells people his effort to change and run a professional operation was when he hired and gave power to Bruce. 

 

As Keim said, Dan's hires were bad but it speaks to Dan as to what type of people he wanted to surround himself with.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Die Hard]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

I won’t take away from Rivera being a nice guy. And I have plenty of skeptical thoughts about EB and think most of the future HC stuff is bunk.

 

But if we come out on offense prepared and disciplined and pound teams with good energy and aggression and poise this season…it would be pretty tough to credit that to Rivera. It would be very easy to give that to EB, given we’ve constantly been a slow-starting, non-urgent, undisciplined mess under Rivera most weeks in the past. The team doesn’t quit under Rivera and it’s tough, but it’s not at all an enviable example of showing discipline or bending other teams to their will. Poor strategic decisions, poor gameplanning decisions, poor situational decision-making and poor clock, challenge, and timeout management. 
 

None of this is roster building or FO criticism. This is purely on the field between the whistles stuff that Rivera the “leader of men” has struggled with for years now. I’ve been saying it for years anytime someone says his problem is just how he’s building the roster—as if his abilities as a HC on gameday are not in question. They very much are. 
 

So yeah. If our fortunes change in a big way this year (especially on offense) it’ll be tough to credit Rivera with it. Especially since Turner was his guy, his hire after he let a future HC playcaller go. So you can’t just say it was all Turner’s fault either. 
 

I don’t foresee us having to worry about this discussion of splitting credit though. There probably won’t be enough credit to go around to fight over it. 

I just don’t like Rivera as our HC. For all the reasons you’ve stated, and so many others. 🙂

 

Good human… an average coach. He did a great job with the off-field stuff while working under Snyder. His teams never quit, I’ll give him that.

 

But on the field, Rivera put his team in so many holes/disadvantages…. that they couldn’t overcome most of them. It was like they were always playing with one-hand behind their back and waiting until they had nothing to lose (each game/season), before they show any fight. And they’d close the gap and keep things close… but never good enough or before running out of time.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Die Hard

[method man]

Caught up with one of my best friends over the weekend. We were catching up regarding a mutual friend I lost touch with but he has kept up with. Said friend used to work closely with Josh Harris and Marc Rowan at Apollo.

 

My friend told me that this friend told him that Josh Harris was a control freak and a bit of a bully to work with.

 

A core underlying reason why Harris lets his GMs and coaches generally do their thing is because he is busy trying to start a new version of Apollo (which includes starting a captive insurance outfit)

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, method man said:

Caught up with one of my best friends over the weekend. We were catching up regarding a mutual friend I lost touch with but he has kept up with. Said friend used to work closely with Josh Harris and Marc Rowan at Apollo.

 

My friend told me that this friend told him that Josh Harris was a control freak and a bit of a bully to work with.

 

A core underlying reason why Harris lets his GMs and coaches generally do their thing is because he is busy trying to start a new version of Apollo (which includes starting a captive insurance outfit)

Maybe I'm way off but control freaks I know are not just that way in one aspect of their lives. They spread the wealth to some degree as they seem to be OCD in general. Yeah, certain areas more controlling than others but still the OCD trait shows. I guess this is where he would crave the best GM's and coaches. Result, I find it hard to see Ron surviving based on his track record of success.

[redskinss]

 

Texans minority owner Javier Loya faces rape charge in Kentucky

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/texans-minority-owner-javier-loya-faces-rape-charge-in-kentucky

 

 

 

 

And this is why the vetting process on 20 minority owners took so long.

Edited August 7, 2023 by redskinss

[Fan since a Fetus]

A billionaire being a control freak doesn’t move the needle a twitch with me. I imagine they all are to some degree. Can one be a control freak and be a decent human? Sure can. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

On 8/5/2023 at 2:48 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The thing that pisses me off when I see the straggler Dan defenders who are mostly ex-players who Dan liked to pal with -- Smoot being the most recent one say well Dan would spend whatever it takes.  That's BS.  He had a period with Cerrato mostly when he paid big for FAs.  But otherwise he was one of the cheapest-most stingy owners in the NFL.

 

For some reason my favorite story in that mix is Chris Russell saying until Shanny insisted it change, Dan would give the team peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as their dinner on road games.

 

The players as we know gave this team an F minus for how they are treated by the team on the road.

 

That was the weirdest subplot of the Dan Era. He started out spending like Jerry Jones on a bender, and by the end, Mike Brown was thinking, "What's wrong with that cheapskate?"

 

It's possible he determined that he could go 7-9 (or 7-10) by spending $300 million or $100 million.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

That was the weirdest subplot of the Dan Era. He started out spending like Jerry Jones on a bender, and by the end, Mike Brown was thinking, "What's wrong with that cheapskate?"

 

It's possible he determined that he could go 7-9 (or 7-10) by spending $300 million or $100 million.

Yeah the counter to this is they always had to spend exactly what the cap said they needed to.  You can’t underspend the cap.  At least not for long.  There is also a cap floor. 
 

So it’s not like they entire quit spending.  They just chose to spend badly.  

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

That was the weirdest subplot of the Dan Era. He started out spending like Jerry Jones on a bender, and by the end, Mike Brown was thinking, "What's wrong with that cheapskate?"

 

It's possible he determined that he could go 7-9 (or 7-10) by spending $300 million or $100 million.

Bruce Allen ushered in a change to frugality and the franchise started hemorrhaging fans and therefore money.

[redskinss]

10 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Bruce Allen ushered in a change to frugality

And we all welcomed it at first, then were like hey wait a minute, he's not trying to build the team the right way he's just being a cheap prick! 

But that took a few years to pick up on.

[skinny21]

I’ll understand if Rivera is gone after this year, but I’m not sure if I agree with the idea that “Dan’s gone, so no excuses”.  Especially in regards to FA.  The practice facilities were still crap, I assume agents were still not pushing their guys toward this team, and there still seemed to be a budget in place.  And then of course, there’s the survey of players that came out just before FA that was damning of how they (and their families) were treated here.  Yes, there was change on the horizon, but it was still pretty much status quo during FA.

 

Point being, I think next year is when the slate will truly have been (at least mostly) wiped clean.  That’s not me saying Ron deserves another year (though I’m open to it for now), I just don’t know that I agree with that angle…

[88Comrade2000]

2024 is going to be the most exciting year in a long time.

 

Getting a real Gm. Getting a modern nfl coach. Getting someone more competent than Jason.

 

Watching them make improvements to FedEx. Watching the local governments try to woo Harris to locate the new stadium.

[Warhead36]

24 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

2024 is going to be the most exciting year in a long time.

 

Getting a real Gm. Getting a modern nfl coach. Getting someone more competent than Jason.

 

Watching them make improvements to FedEx. Watching the local governments try to woo Harris to locate the new stadium.

Its a shame we won't be bad enough to tank for one of the stud QBs.

[Redwards]

40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its a shame we won't be bad enough to tank for one of the stud QBs.

This is the worst part.  We're most likely going to end up picking in the no man's land of the mid-teens.  It won't move the needle at all.   I'm eager for Harris to clean house and get a truly top-of-the-line FO in place with creative minds that will somehow be able to move us up higher in the draft to get a blue chip prospect at QB.  I truly like Sam Howell but I just don't get even the remotest feeling like the guy can and is going to be a top 10 QB in this league (which we need in order to be a sustained SB threatening team).  I feel he's at most going to be a very solid player at his position that, in the end, just isn't good enough to get you over the hump.  He'll be the Rivera of QB's, where "close" will be the ceiling.  That's my gut feeling anyway.  

 

I've said it before: unless Sam looks like the second coming of Burrow or the like this year, we MUST do everything we can to procure one of the top legit QB prospects in the coming draft.  If that QB fails to beat out Sam, and Sam turns out to truly be the answer that we've all been waiting for via QB competition and then another season on the field, I'm cool with it because it means we finally have an answer at QB.  But we gotta stack the position right now to increase our odds of hitting that guy.  We haven't drafted a franchise guy since the 1930's, I believe.  

 

That's gotta be the all-time worst hit rate in all of professional sports, I'd imagine.  Whomever the next QB is, he's gotta be better than a Kirk Cousins for us to win it all.  And that's the only thing in professional sports that counts: winning championships.  There is no second place, no pats on the back at this level.  It's a bottom line business and thankfully, Harris and his crew get that big time.  I'm truly excited for what he's going to bring to this franchise.  

Edited August 8, 2023 by Redwards

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Its a shame we won't be bad enough to tank for one of the stud QBs.

Josh is aggressive. If the new brain trust feels that we need a qb; they will move assets to pout us in position to do that.  Yeah, it sucks we have to give up assets again but they will do what they have to.

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Josh is aggressive. If the new brain trust feels that we need a qb; they will move assets to pout us in position to do that.  Yeah, it sucks we have to give up assets again but they will do what they have to.

I think our biggest holes will be Oline and LBer this year and the draft looks ripe at those spots next year.

 

If Sam can show promise, we could finish putting the team around him and still invest in a QB or two outside of the first.

 

I think our roster is good enough to be elite pretty soon, without too much work.