The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[MrJL]

On 5/12/2023 at 11:44 AM, Warhead36 said:

We beat Philly because they had a bunch of fluky turnovers and we got away with an obvious penalty.

 

yes, that's why the games are played.  Over the years we've lost plenty of fluky games

[illone]

Its flat out weird how UNlucky this team has been at QB the past two decades. 
 

Even Detroit has been luckier. 

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, illone said:

Its flat out weird how UNlucky this team has been at QB the past two decades. 
 

Even Detroit has been luckier. 

 

I'd say the Browns and the Jets have had almost as hard a time with QB.

[Darth Tater]

Just now, illone said:

Its flat out weird how UNlucky this team has been at QB the past two decades. 
 

Even Detroit has been luckier. 

1959, 1960 and 1961 we spent a top 5 pick on a QB, none worked out (albeit, Norm Snead was flipped for Sonny). Before our 1959 pick, we spent a top 10 pick on a QB in 1945, 1948, 1953 and 1955, none of these are even in the Hall of the Good. The number of teams less lucky at the QB position than us since the early 1950s can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

[Warhead36]

56 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

1959, 1960 and 1961 we spent a top 5 pick on a QB, none worked out (albeit, Norm Snead was flipped for Sonny). Before our 1959 pick, we spent a top 10 pick on a QB in 1945, 1948, 1953 and 1955, none of these are even in the Hall of the Good. The number of teams less lucky at the QB position than us since the early 1950s can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Yep. But you gotta keep taking shots. 

[Commander Chaaarmnder]

All in on Sam Howell.  It’s not fair, but life in sports rarely is.  If he plays poorly, he’ll be benched come week 5 or so.  New regime coming in next season.  Wishing the best for this guy.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

11 hours ago, illone said:

Its flat out weird how UNlucky this team has been at QB the past two decades. 
 

Even Detroit has been luckier. 

Yes. Stafford and Goff are Montana/Brady compared to what our team has had since pretty much 1991 😢 Even Dan Orlovsky was a stud compared to some of our qbs!!

[zCommander]

13 hours ago, illone said:

Its flat out weird how UNlucky this team has been at QB the past two decades. 
 

Even Detroit has been luckier. 

 

Letting Cousins walk had nothing to do with being unlucky. That was Bruce Allen being stupid and his ego. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Letting Cousins walk had nothing to do with being unlucky. That was Bruce Allen being stupid and his ego. 

That’s definitely part of it, but looking back at it along with other stories unearthed since that time - I bet Bruce was doing Dan’s bidding.  

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Letting Cousins walk had nothing to do with being unlucky. That was Bruce Allen being stupid and his ego. 

One could say the team was unlucky to have Bruce Allen in the first place. 

[Conn]

46 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

One could say the team was unlucky to have Bruce Allen in the first place. 

Unluckiness tends to follow incompetence. Someone like Snyder at the top who is a poor leader in a poor structure who puts poor processes in place…that’s gonna result in a lot of poor hires who make poor choices. And from the outside, a lot of the trickle down from that can look like bad luck. And some of it is. But when you aren’t lead competently and you aren’t set up for success at any level of the organization, it begins to get hard to separate bad luck outcomes from bad process outcomes.

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Letting Cousins walk had nothing to do with being unlucky. That was Bruce Allen being stupid and his ego. 

 

That is absolutely true. But some of the other things like the injuries - especailly lately like to Alex Smith and Fitz. Even RG III while somewhat preventable was also a bit of bad luck he was so badly injured early. 

 

This is zero defense for dan or bruce for that matter. Both are total pieces of trash and are very much responsble for tearing down this frachise. But both can be true, they were **** and we also get unlucky. 

[NewCliche21]

On 5/12/2023 at 3:42 PM, MartinC said:

 

I would rather have him as the number #3 on the practice squad than Fromm. Then again I would rather have you as the #3 than Fromm.

 

Can someone explain to me the knock on Fromm?  I don't follow college but I remember hearing that he was going to be something early in his college career. Why is he Casey Rabach-level bad?

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Conn said:

Unluckiness tends to follow incompetence. Someone like Snyder at the top who is a poor leader in a poor structure who puts poor processes in place…that’s gonna result in a lot of poor hires who make poor choices. And from the outside, a lot of the trickle down from that can look like bad luck. And some of it is. But when you aren’t lead competently and you aren’t set up for success at any level of the organization, it begins to get hard to separate bad luck outcomes from bad process outcomes.

 

Agree.  I'd add a variation of that same point which is having Dan neuters all of these guys performances -- coaches, front office people, all of them.

 

Some people for example hate Jay Gruden, and maybe he indeed wasn't a hot coach but Dan didn't set him up for success.  He saddled him with a QB he didn't want.  He put a politician versus a football guy in charge of personnel.  He didn't even let Jay control his own assistant coaching crew or allow him to get rid of the players he thought were hurting the locker room.

 

Every dude who worked there has stories like that.  We saw the worst version of likely every coach and personnel or business operations guy who worked there. I don't think its a coincidence that most had more success elsewhere heck even Norv.  As Czaben said it is the reverse car wash.  And many fans are unforgiving to these guys who fail here, regardless of context.  So its really a lose lose, dumpster fire. 

 

3 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Can someone explain to me the knock on Fromm?  I don't follow college but I remember hearing that he was going to be something early in his college career. Why is he Casey Rabach-level bad?

 

He's a low ceiling QB, not much arm strength, who didn't finish that hot in college.  I watched his first start for the NY Giants and it was Beck level awful -- maybe worse.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

8 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Can someone explain to me the knock on Fromm?  I don't follow college but I remember hearing that he was going to be something early in his college career. Why is he Casey Rabach-level bad?

 

As @Skinsinparadise says above first of all he has marginal physical skills. There is not a single thing physically about him which says he has potential to develop significantly. But the real issue is he just looked like a deer in the headlights when he played for the Giants. He had two starts (one against us) and a relief appearance  - he completed under 50% of his throws and just looked totally unprepared to play QB in the NFL.  Against us you may recall the Giants ran back to back QB sneaks on 2nd and 3rd and long rather than trust Fromm to even hand the ball off successfully let alone throw a pass!!

 

Small sample size and he was rookie kind of thrown to wolves after injuries so he could have improved but the bar was set WAY low when he got an opportunity to play. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Keim today, he seemed to play up don't count out Brissett to win the job.  He said Howell gets first shot in camp but if Brissett outplays him -- Brissett would start.   Feels still like Howell but not out of the question that it ends up Brissett.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Keim today, he seemed to play up don't count out Brissett to win the job.  He said Howell gets first shot in camp but if Brissett outplays him -- Brissett would start.   Feels still like Howell but not out of the question that it ends up Brissett.

 

 

Ummm.....

 

Isn't that what its been since we signed Brissett?

 

I understand some people convinced themselves its 100% gonna be Howell week 1, but I never got the impression that he was a lock or anything. I always thought he would have to be able to "keep up" w/ Jacoby to win the job, even if he is given the first crack. If he was outclassed in the off season, Jocoby was gonna be the guy.

 

We have not had any off season activities of consequence for Howell to succeed or fail yet, so the narrative has not changed for me at all.

 

 

[Darth Tater]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep. But you gotta keep taking shots. 

This was in response to us being almost as unlucky as Detroit. In that 50s span, you also have multiple 2,3,4 shots.  At the same time, you have late picks like Starr(HoF), Ryan, Van Brocklin(HoF), Unitas(HOF) and Finks. Late rounders themselves. Last season, 17 franchises did not have first round QB they picked including none of the NFC playoff teams (3 of the teams that did finished below 500).  Only two or three NFL teams have a worse draft history with high QB picks than us though we have had some success with lower round picks, trades(include FAs here) and even street pick ups. Another thing that should be exciting is that EB is in the coaching tree that includes some of the best QB guys ever:

 

Holmgren -- Young (including developing him in college), Favre, Brunell, Hasselebeck

Reid -- McNabb, Smith, Mahomes and picked Foles, got a good year out of Vick

Pederson -- Smith's OC and only one to get the best of Wentz and Foles

[MartinC]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to Keim today, he seemed to play up don't count out Brissett to win the job.  He said Howell gets first shot in camp but if Brissett outplays him -- Brissett would start.   Feels still like Howell but not out of the question that it ends up Brissett.

I listened to that pod last night - don't think thats anything new really. Its a question of judgement on how far Brissett would have to outplay Howell to be opening day starter. I think Howell would have to be very clearly outplayed and struggle not to be the opening day starter. If its anywhere close they will go with Howell to start with. After that its up to Howell.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I listened to that pod last night - don't think thats anything new really. Its a question of judgement on how far Brissett would have to outplay Howell to be opening day starter. I think Howell would have to be very clearly outplayed and struggle not to be the opening day starter. If its anywhere close they will go with Howell to start with. After that its up to Howell.

 

Agree.  I just like to take note if Keim likes to emphasize a point and he seemed to go out of his way to do it.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s definitely part of it, but looking back at it along with other stories unearthed since that time - I bet Bruce was doing Dan’s bidding.  

I still think it was a combination of Scot, Bruce and Dan in the 2016 off season.  They had to get a deal done then.  When they failed to realize that, it was over.  And it led to Kirk being able to demand the fully guaranteed ridiculous contract he go and hasn’t lived up to from the Vikings. 
 

At the end of his time with the Vikings, which might be this year, Kurt’s 2 contracts might be looked at as two of the worst contracts in NFL history.  He’s not a bad player.  He’s between average and good with moments of brilliance and moments which make you think he shouldn’t play QB for the Langley High School Saxons.  
 

Haynsworth probably has “worst contact ever” locked up for eternity, unless the Watson deal turns out to be a bust.  
 

But Kurt is sneaky high on that list.  
 

Bruce (and Dan and Scot) blew it in the 2016 off season.  Then Bruce had no concept of what his value was and didn’t accept a trade for him when he knew he wasn’t going to pay his market value.  Even if his market value was ludicrous, it was his market value.  
 

Total short sighted dumbassery all around. 

[The Rook]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I still think it was a combination of Scot, Bruce and Dan in the 2016 off season.  They had to get a deal done then.  When they failed to realize that, it was over.  And it led to Kirk being able to demand the fully guaranteed ridiculous contract he go and hasn’t lived up to from the Vikings. 
 

At the end of his time with the Vikings, which might be this year, Kurt’s 2 contracts might be looked at as two of the worst contracts in NFL history.  He’s not a bad player.  He’s between average and good with moments of brilliance and moments which make you think he shouldn’t play QB for the Langley High School Saxons.  
 

Haynsworth probably has “worst contact ever” locked up for eternity, unless the Watson deal turns out to be a bust.  
 

But Kurt is sneaky high on that list.  
 

Bruce (and Dan and Scot) blew it in the 2016 off season.  Then Bruce had no concept of what his value was and didn’t accept a trade for him when he knew he wasn’t going to pay his market value.  Even if his market value was ludicrous, it was his market value.  
 

Total short sighted dumbassery all around. 

 

Thinking back to the start of Kurt's final year on rookie contract, seems like he wanted $14M(?) per year average for extension.  Management wanted him to prove it in 2015 season and he did.  Management balked at the upgraded price per year ($17M? $19M) and franchised him and the debacle was on.

 

What I am remembering was the discussion on ES - seems like there were three camps:

Let Him Go - about 1 in 4

Sign Him Early - maybe 1 in 4

Make Him Prove It - and this was easily the most popular (and worst) option

 

Observations are:

1. Firm decisions are better than wishy-washy

2. We aren't that smart either 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

 

[method man]

His dad was a college wrestler...he clearly inherited his dad's genes

[Bifflog]

 

[KDawg]

If Brissett winds up starting… we misplayed QB. Again.

 

And that’s not a knock on him. But if Sam ain’t it, we kicked the can down the road again, to a likely mid first round pick.

 

There is an argument that the new regime would want their own guy anyways, and I’ll buy that argument.

 

I don’t think we misplayed and I think Howell starts. But that’s not a good scenario for this team.

Edited May 19, 2023 by KDawg