The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[method man]

3 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Another reason to have a decent QB3

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the league approved a bylaw that would allow a third QB to be active on game day without burning a roster spot.

There are a few things to note with this rule -- the first being the quarterback must be on the 53-man roster and not on the practice squad. The rule allows for a team to have a third emergency quarterback available, even if they aren't listed as active at the start of the game. Secondly, the third quarterback is only available in the event of an injury to the two active quarterbacks. If a starting quarterback is benched, he cannot be benched in favor of the emergency quarterback. The disaster the 49ers experienced at quarterback in last year's NFC Championship Game helped push this rule into existence, which should prevent a non-quarterback being called on in the most dire of circumstances.

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/sports/nfl/football

 

Paging Jordan Ta'amu

[RandyHolt]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

In retrospect the biggest mistake was not taking Tua or Herbert(or I guess even Hurts) at #2 overall in 2020. Everything else after that is a domino effect.

 

I'm not killin him for it because hindsight is 20/20, but just saying. If we took one of those guys we'd be in a Super Bowl window right now. That was our shot and we blew it.

I tend to agree. I hate when a new coach comes on board and they ignore needing a QB for... 3 years. Draft one every damn year until you think you have one. It still kills me that Shanahan waited as long as he did and then mortgaged the future and then drafted 2 for spite. Yeah that was Snyder but you know what? Mike pretending like he could wait 3 years before drafting a single QB to start to develop forced Dan's tiny you tube clicking hands.

 

Ill draft a QB next year is a failed approach.  The GM ends up focusing on defense and then has a D good enough to ensure another 7 win season and ****ty draft slot. At least we didn't burn our top picks on the DL again. Nothing against the player but I still question taking Mathis in round 2 last year. Our OL was in shambles by week 6 and will likely struggle this year to keep Howell upright.

 

 

[Conn]

This could’ve been us

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

12 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I tend to agree. I hate when a new coach comes on board and they ignore needing a QB for... 3 years. Draft one every damn year until you think you have one. It still kills me that Shanahan waited as long as he did and then mortgaged the future and then drafted 2 for spite. Yeah that was Snyder but you know what? Mike pretending like he could wait 3 years before drafting a single QB to start to develop forced Dan's tiny you tube clicking hands.

 

Ill draft a QB next year is a failed approach.  The GM ends up focusing on defense and then has a D good enough to ensure another 7 win season and ****ty draft slot. At least we didn't burn our top picks on the DL again. Nothing against the player but I still question taking Mathis in round 2 last year. Our OL was in shambles by week 6 and will likely struggle this year to keep Howell upright.

 

 

 

Didn't Snyder meddle in 2010? The McNabb trade was him right?

 

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

@MartinC said it well.  Actually so did Martz on his 106.7 appearance.  The wildcard for any young Qb is how quick can they process things?   And you don't really know until you see it play out.    Arians, longish (but great book) on QBs spells it out too -- he's encountered plenty of young QBs with talent.  And they all can see the field and process things if you give them time.  But during games you don't have that time -- so they need to read and react in a split second or 3.  Some young QBs have that ability and some don't and you don't know until that's tested.

 

Whether it's to your eye, my eye, or anyone else, I don't think we know.  Martz as high as he is on his talent said he doesn't know either as far as being definitive that he's the dude. 

 

However, I am jazzed about seeing how it plays out for Howell.  Not to the extent where I am brimming with optimism that we got our guy.  But I am feeling good about giving a young QB with some talent a chance.  The optimism for me will come as the script plays out and hopefully plays well.

 

As for Kirk he did look good in his first game.  26 for 37 for 329 yards and did it with the playoffs at stake.  Howell didn't put up nearly those numbers in his debut but also looked mostly sharp I agree.  It took Kirk about 3 years though to establish himself after that -- had some shaky starts.  It wasn't the most popular thing even back in 2015 to have Kirk's back that season but I did after he put a series of good games together.  I'll definitely do the same if Howell strings some good games together.  Fingers crossed.

 

As for the attitude changing.  Yeah agree if they start winning this season, optimism will reign.  I am typically more optimistic than I should be about the season and that hasn't played out well for me.   This season, I need to be sold.  What's driving your optimism about the season?  I am trying to sell myself but having a hard time so interested in those who are high on what's coming.

Most coaches (especially old heads) don’t like to acknowledge, but ability for young QB to manipulate the pocket and create plays is up there with reading a defense, it seems to provide the younger QB an ability to impact games sooner while continuing to learn the position. Obviously, ability to read a defense is paramount, but I speculate it’s not as prevalent as it once was (to what degree I don’t know). QBs and offenses are getting it done in differently than in past, no longer one mold. 
 

[FootballZombie]

I don't expect to see it happen but I would like to see new practice squad protections for QBs rolled out sometime soon to go along with that new xtra QB rule. Something that makes them a tad harder to poach.

 

It would be very unfair to said QBs tho...

They get enough breaks.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Most coaches (especially old heads) don’t like to acknowledge, but ability for young QB to manipulate the pocket and create plays is up there with reading a defense, it seems to provide the younger QB an ability to impact games sooner while continuing to learn the position. Obviously, ability to read a defense is paramount, but I speculate it’s not as prevalent as it once was (to what degree I don’t know). QBs and offenses are getting it done in differently than in past, no longer one mold. 
 

 

I don't argue against mobility.  Like I said IMHO Howell's future success is tied to it.  Mobility is one of my favorite QB attributes. 

 

Coaches though tend to acknowledge it from what I gathered including Martz and Arians who I referenced.  But they do beliieve seeing the field and processing what's going on in a split second is key -- that doesn't mean reading defenses alone but everything involved in processing things quickly -- footwork, protections, seeing Wrs get open in choice routes, etc.

 

I don't know if Howell possess this skill or not.  But we are about to find out.

 

I used to hate Heath Evans because in 2012 when asked he would say Russell Wilson >> RG3.  He said the reason being was Wilspn saw the field and processed things quicker than RG3.  He would showcase that on the NFL Network by isolating 3rd and long plays where the QB couldn't use their mobility as a crutch.  And he would freeze frame plays where WRs were wide open but RG3 wouldn't see it whereas Wilson would.

 

It came out later that Jay Gruden in order to convince Dan RG3 isn't the guy, purposely left RG3 a bit naked in a preseason game to showcase that the dude didn't have the peripheral vision to see pressure in the pocket.   And he kept on getting sacked. And Jay helped prove his point. 

 

Arians was big on mobility in his book but he was even bigger on focusing on the Qb's ability to see the Matrix so to speak in quick order.

 

I am not saying Howell is good or bad on that front.  Will see.  But I do buy the read-react component of his game will be critical. 

39 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Didn't Snyder meddle in 2010? The McNabb trade was him right?

 

 

 

Yep. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't argue against mobility.  Like I said IMHO Howell's future success is tied to it.  Mobility is one of my favorite QB attributes. 
 

Agreed. 

 

Howell starts 17 games, what would you like his rushing stats to look like:

 

Yards:

Attempts:

1st downs:

TDs: 

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Coaches though tend to acknowledge it from what I gathered including Martz and Arians who I referenced.  But they do beliieve seeing the field and processing what's going on in a split second is key -- that doesn't mean reading defenses alone but everything involved in processing things quickly -- footwork, protections, seeing Wrs get open in choice routes, etc.

100% 

 

Decision making in all sports is KING

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't know if Howell possess this skill or not.  But we are about to find out.

 

I used to hate Heath Evans because in 2012 when asked he would say Russell Wilson >> RG3.  He said the reason being was Wilspn saw the field and processed things quicker than RG3.  He would showcase that on the NFL Network by isolating 3rd and long plays where the QB couldn't use their mobility as a crutch.  And he would freeze frame plays where WRs were wide open but RG3 wouldn't see it whereas Wilson would.

 

What’s wild, on the spectrum Russel was below average in this regard as well. Accuracy on these type of throws was a real struggle as well, Wilson not know to read the field was an accurate passer of the football. 
 

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It came out later that Jay Gruden in order to convince Dan RG3 isn't the guy, purposely left RG3 a bit naked in a preseason game to showcase that the dude didn't have the peripheral vision to see pressure in the pocket.   And he kept on getting sacked. And Jay helped prove his point. 
 

 

I get it, but this is why I’d categorize Jay as a old head type coach who forced his scheme versus adapting. As you know, I liked Jay and felt confident in most games his scheme was going compete, but his inability to adapt, be curious, continue to be an active learner held him back from escaping average.
 

This is more of a bad reflection on Jay than RG3. I get it, RG3 was a knucklehead and he was making a point so he could make the move to Cousins (which was correct). 
 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Arians was big on mobility in his book but he was even bigger on focusing on the Qb's ability to see the Matrix so to speak in quick order.

 

I am not saying Howell is good or bad on that front.  Will see.  But I do buy the read-react component of his game will be critical. 

 

Yep. 

Im not sure I even want a scheme that requires a QB to go through all the minutia of an Arians or Martz downfield passing attacks. Both those schemes require too many deep drops and seem to have fallen out of favor in the NFL. Arians found a nice balance when relenting to Brady and his quick passing preference.

 

I like the Hurts, Mahomes, Allen type schemes that require less of the QB needing to read the field like a savant to be successful (high/low reads, screens, slants, QB runs and PA … call it a day). Fill the game up with layups, threes, free throws (QB running) and call it a day. Gone are the days of needing a triangle type offense lol 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This season, I need to be sold.  What's driving your optimism about the season?  I am trying to sell myself but having a hard time so interested in those who are high on what's coming.

Honestly, I think our OL is gonna be better than expected. I think we did more to upgrade there than others do. Not world beaters but serviceable.

 

I believe in EB to put our guys in position to succeed. I think we’ve done a poor job overall getting the ball to our playmakers. I think that will change. I expect some “Hardiman” type plays for Samuels/Dotson. 

 

I think getting stronger in the secondary was a must. The defense should be better. I like Chase’s chances to have a good year and I expect Jamin Davis to make a leap also. 
 

I think Brian Robinson will be better.

 

I believe in Sam Howell. I think his competitiveness is an overlooked trait. I said last year that I expected him to play well against Dallas and he showed up. He’s smart (also tested well which I know is something you consider), so I don’t worry about his ability to process defenses. 
 

I think this group just needs a taste for winning. Learning how to win is a skill. I think we have the pieces/leadership to make that happen this year. 
 

And lastly, I think the players like Ron. They know their coach’s job is on the line. I expect the guys to show up for Ron this season. 
 

Fedex is gonna be rocking this year. I think that gives this team a boost as well. Fingers crossed. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Agreed. 

 

Howell starts 17 games, what would you like his rushing stats to look like:

 

Yards:

Attempts:

1st downs:

TDs: 

 

I'd say if he's running for about 500 yards, 6 Tds or so its a good sign.

 

If I am selling why Howell ends up a good QB, along with processing -- its a combination of his mobility and deep ball.  Those I think are his best attributes.

 

Heck I recall when Haskins was here, me citing after watching North Carolina, I'd love it if Haskins could throw a deep ball like Howell -- Haskins would underthrow them and the ball was flat. 

 

Howell hits Wrs in stride with the deep ball and puts enough air for WRs to get under the ball.  If you recall Kirk and Desean had really good chemistry on that front.  I think Howell could do it with Terry-Dotson.  

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, method man said:

 

Paging Jordan Ta'amu

I doubt we carry 3 QBs on the 53 this season. The 3rd QB will probably be on the practice squad. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Honestly, I think our OL is gonna be better than expected. I think we did more to upgrade there than others do. Not world beaters but serviceable.

 

 

Basically its Wylie starting at RT instead of Lucas-Cosmi.  And instead of Rouillier-Larsen we got Gates at center.  Depth once they get rid of Norwell is weaker IMO.  No Turner, Rouillier, Norwell, Schweitzer.  Daneils by Rivera's own admission is a project they will work on for the future, doesn't sound like he's in rotation this season.  And I've heard that don't want Stromberg to start in all likelihood.  So yeah for me, I don't see much of an improvement but will see.

 

16 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

 

I believe in EB to put our guys in position to succeed. I think we’ve done a poor job overall getting the ball to our playmakers. I think that will change. I expect some “Hardiman” type plays for Samuels/Dotson. 

 

 

Agree.  But new offenses tend to take time.  Heck I recall how much Al Saunders for example was billed to make a major difference to the offense -- it didn't happen in season one and the rap was new offenses take time, usually its year 2.  Logan Paulsen said something similar, asking people in the league about new offenses, and their mantra was an offensive coordinator needs two seasons for their offense to sink in.

 

16 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

 

I think getting stronger in the secondary was a must. The defense should be better. I like Chase’s chances to have a good year and I expect Jamin Davis to make a leap also. 

 

Agree with all of this.

 

16 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

I think Brian Robinson will be better.

 

 

Agree.  But he played under one of the worst run blocking units in the league last year and i doubt its much better this season.  But will see.

 

16 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

Fedex is gonna be rocking this year. I think that gives this team a boost as well. Fingers crossed. 

 

I appreciate the optimism.  And its certainly possible.  My feeling is the fan vibe goes south around midseason when they are off to a "meh" start.  And the excitement going forward is driven by fans looking forward to cleaning house.  But I hope am wrong.

 

16 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

 

 

I believe in Sam Howell. I think his competitiveness is an overlooked trait. I said last year that I expected him to play well against Dallas and he showed up. He’s smart (also tested well which I know is something you consider), so I don’t worry about his ability to process defenses. 

 

He's tough-ballter. I agree.  But will see.  I recall in college when he played versus Pickett (Pitt) in his last season -- commenting about how tough he was.  He was getting hit.  At some point it started pouring rain at the end of the game.  And Rocky like, he kept balling.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Didn't Snyder meddle in 2010? The McNabb trade was him right?

 

 

I can't recall but it was such a trainwreck it had his tiny fingerprints all over it. Remember that night the trade was announced? It was a worse than usual prime time monday night massacre. Never trade with Andy Reid... but we are happy to take his coaches.

[88Comrade2000]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

In retrospect the biggest mistake was not taking Tua or Herbert(or I guess even Hurts) at #2 overall in 2020. Everything else after that is a domino effect.

 

I'm not killin him for it because hindsight is 20/20, but just saying. If we took one of those guys we'd be in a Super Bowl window right now. That was our shot and we blew it.

Ron took the wrong lessons from his time in Carolina.  Yeah, it wasn't until Year 3 that he started winning.  Doesn't he realize, he won in Carolina when he had a healthy Cam Newton in his prime?  His winning their happened because he got a franchise QB in his first year?  His reign ended in Carolina because Cam got hurt and he wasn't the same QB when he came back.

 

His biggest mistake was not taking a QB in 2020.  Looks at Arizona.  They draft Rosen in 2018. They make a coaching change and in 2019, they kick Rosen to the curb and draft Kyler Murray.  Arizona is now in the position depending on how Arizona and Houston finishes; to have the top 2 picks in 24. Kyler could be kicked to the curb and they start over.

 

 

Ron should've told Dan that he would give his QB, Haskins a shot at the job but he intended to draft his own QB to compete for the job.  We could traded the QB who lost out for picks.

 

 

When Ron gets kicked to the curb in January, his failure at QB and not addressing that in year 1; will be a key reason why.  In an offensive league, QB is more important that any defensive player.  Look at Indy post Luck, they have struggled with QBS every year.  If someone offers us a couple of 2nd rounders or a second rounder and conditional 2nd rounder that could become a 1st rounder; trade Chase.

[MartinC]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

So… is Andrew Luck interested?

 
In getting his Masters and not being in pain most of the time? Yep.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

 

 

His biggest mistake was not taking a QB in 2020.  Looks at Arizona.  They draft Rosen in 2018. They make a coaching change and in 2019, they kick Rosen to the curb and draft Kyler Murray.  Arizona is now in the position depending on how Arizona and Houston finishes; to have the top 2 picks in 24. Kyler could be kicked to the curb and they start over.

 

They also extended Murray and gave him over $100M guaranteed - he’s got $35M base salary guaranteed in 2024 and would cost them $81M in dead cap to cut before next season. Oh and he’s due a $23m guaranteed option bonus this season.

 

Murray is going nowhere until after the 2024 season.

[Conn]

26 minutes ago, MartinC said:

They also extended Murray and gave him over $100M guaranteed - he’s got $35M base salary guaranteed in 2024 and would cost them $81M in dead cap to cut before next season. Oh and he’s due a $23m guaranteed option bonus this season.

 

Murray is going nowhere until after the 2024 season.

And yet they may still just eat it and take Caleb Williams, and would probably be right to do so

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Basically its Wylie starting at RT instead of Lucas-Cosmi.  And instead of Rouillier-Larsen we got Gates at center.  Depth once they get rid of Norwell is weaker IMO.  No Turner, Rouillier, Norwell, Schweitzer.  Daneils by Rivera's own admission is a project they will work on for the future, doesn't sound like he's in rotation this season.  And I've heard that don't want Stromberg to start in all likelihood.  So yeah for me, I don't see much of an improvement but will see.

 

We can't list those players being gone as why we're now lacking depth and compare it to last season. Trai Turner? Roullier? Why not list Nick Martin who played more snaps at Center than Roullier did.

[MartinC]

32 minutes ago, Conn said:

And yet they may still just eat it and take Caleb Williams, and would probably be right to do so

It’s a lot to eat!

 

I suppose they could do a post June 1 cut and spread that dead money over two seasons - but it’s still a heck of a lot of wasted cap space. Not to mention actual cash.

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

It’s a lot to eat!

 

I suppose they could do a post June 1 cut and spread that dead money over two seasons - but it’s still a heck of a lot of wasted cap space. Not to mention actual cash.

It’s just short term pain for a year or two years.

 

Arizona could have the top 2 picks. They could reap a windfall by trading the other pick, to a team wanting a qb.

[method man]

10 hours ago, MartinC said:

I doubt we carry 3 QBs on the 53 this season. The 3rd QB will probably be on the practice squad. 

They have carried 3 QBs on the roster throughout Rivera’s tenure. Carrying 2 with one on the PS would deviate from what Rivera has done. Furthermore, this is a franchise that has had the 3rd QB play in every one of Rivera’s seasons here

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, method man said:

They have carried 3 QBs on the roster throughout Rivera’s tenure. Carrying 2 with one on the PS would deviate from what Rivera has done. Furthermore, this is a franchise that has had the 3rd QB play in every one of Rivera’s seasons here

Yeah the recent history of QB injuries and poor performances should elevate their interest in raising the quality of the current QB3 situation.

Plus the threads are full of issues foreseen with the OL and TE leading one to question protection. 

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, MartinC said:

 
In getting his Masters and not being in pain most of the time? Yep.

That’s not a no…

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, method man said:

They have carried 3 QBs on the roster throughout Rivera’s tenure. Carrying 2 with one on the PS would deviate from what Rivera has done. Furthermore, this is a franchise that has had the 3rd QB play in every one of Rivera’s seasons here

True.  But right now the 3rd QB is Jake Fromm. I don’t think he’s worth a roster spot on the 53.

 

If we are going to carry 3 QBs on the 53 they need to bring someone else in.

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

It’s just short term pain for a year or two years.

 

Arizona could have the top 2 picks. They could reap a windfall by trading the other pick, to a team wanting a qb.

That could well end up being us. 

[method man]

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

True.  But right now the 3rd QB is Jake Fromm. I don’t think he’s worth a roster spot on the 53.

 

If we are going to carry 3 QBs on the 53 they need to bring someone else in.

That could well end up being us. 

Perhaps this rule change is the impetus to do so. I am fine with one of these top spring league QBs - I keep suggesting Ta’amu because he has had a couple stints with EB in KC and was also here briefly. I also like the traits with the size, mobility and NFL arm. 
 

No one is likely picking Fromm up off a PS unless they get desperate.