The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

We can't list those players being gone as why we're now lacking depth and compare it to last season. Trai Turner? Roullier? Why not list Nick Martin who played more snaps at Center than Roullier did.

 

Because Martin (meant Gates) is going to start at center from what I've heard.  He's not depth.   I mentioned that in one of my posts. 

 

Norwell wasn't great, he didn't suck either.  As the Draft Network guys who watched this line said, Norwell was one of the serviceable guys on the O line.   Norwell and Chris Paul > Chris Paul.  As to depth.   Cosmi is arguably their best player on the O line but durability is his issue.  Ditto S. Charles.

 

At center its deeper because of Stromberg.  Tackle depth is basically the same.   They moved Cosmi out of the spot and replaced him with Wylie. 

 

Daniels by Rivera's own admission is in a development year.  I get the vibe they don't expect him to play.

 

At best IMO their depth is a wash from last year.  Guard depth is weaker IMO, center is better and tackle the same.  

 

When Mayhew said in his press conference their depth on the O line is bad.  I gather in his mind, mission accomplished, he fixed it this off season.  In my opinion (and that's what we do here is share takes) that's a joke.   A big joke.  But will see.  I hope I am wrong. 

 

But if I am right, i look forwad to the whole regime getting canned. The one thing they accomplished for me this off season is if this goes off the rails -- I've gone from with new ownership I want to see these guys go because I think we can do better, but I was not majorly fired up about it to -- now I am big time fired up about it.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I forgot to mention Wes Schwetizer who was the utility guard-center guy is gone.  Basically Nick Gates was swapped for him but will likely be the starter.

 

I don't see how our depth is better per Mayhew's publicly stated goal at the start of the off season.  Easier to argue its weaker or at best its the same.  I don't expect studs on the bench.  But its good to have some plug and play guys.

 

As far as me whining about the O line I am far from on an island. You got plenty of others who are down on this O line, too. 

 

As I posted here the audio link, the Draft Network guys did a deep dive on this roster and rewatched some games.  They highlighted this O line getting manhandled and they were surprised that this team didn't do much to fix it.  PFN did a recent ranking and put us at 26 and it wouldn't surprise me if that's one of the higher rankings we get.

 

Heck Martz mentioned the poor blocking in his own hype video for Howell. 

 

But will see hopefully Ron gets the last laugh. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/36187363/2023-nfl-draft-best-picks-worst-reaches-favorite-fits-trades-rookie-predictions

Which team produced your least favorite class?

Miller: Washington Commanders. Not selecting a quarterback or offensive tackle in the entire draft was a bold strategy for a team with question marks at both spots. The Commanders are truly all-in on Sam Howell and veteran Jacoby Brissett at quarterback and might have the shakiest offensive line in the entire NFL after Arizona shored up its unit with Paris Johnson Jr. in Round 1.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

In retrospect the biggest mistake was not taking Tua or Herbert(or I guess even Hurts) at #2 overall in 2020. Everything else after that is a domino effect.

 

Neither Tua nor Herbert have their teams inside the Super Bowl window yet but I agree that we'd be better off with Herbert over Chase Young, at least as we sit today. Could you imagine Tua behind our offensive line the past two seasons? He'd still be in concussion protocol. 

I think Howell can be another Herbert....I really do. EB is gonna coach him up.

Hurts with EB would've been nice....

[method man]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Because Martin is going to start at center from what I've heard.  He's not depth.   I mentioned that in one of my posts. 

 

Norwell wasn't great, he didn't suck either.  As the Draft Network guys who watched this line said, Norwell was one of the serviceable guys on the O line.   Norwell and Chris Paul > Chris Paul.  As to depth.   Cosmi is arguably their best player on the O line but durability is his issue.  Ditto S. Charles.

 

At center its deeper because of Stromberg.  Tackle depth is basically the same.   They moved Cosmi out of the spot and replaced him with Wylie. 

 

Daniels by Rivera's own admission is in a development year.  I get the vibe they don't expect him to play.

 

At best IMO their depth is a wash from last year.  Guard depth is weaker IMO, center is better and tackle the same.  

 

When Mayhew said in his press conference their depth on the O line is bad.  I gather in his mind, mission accomplished, he fixed it this off season.  In my opinion (and that's what we do here is share takes) that's a joke.   A big joke.  But will see.  I hope I am wrong. 

 

But if I am right, i look forwad to the whole regime getting canned. The one thing they accomplished for me this off season is if this goes off the rails -- I've gone from with new ownership I want to see these guys go because I think we can do better, but I was not majorly fired up about it to -- now I am big time fired up about it.

What you are not accounting for is that every single OL who is projected to make the OL has position flex. That is a major difference vs last year where Norwell and Turner were purely guards (yes Turner supposedly could play center too but I don’t think he ever took an NFL snap there) and Roullier was purely a center. 

 

You now have 4 guys who can play tackle at NFL level between Leno, Wylie, Lucas and Cosmi

 

Wylie and Gates are proven NFL starters at guard and play LG if needed. If Paul and Charles suck, I don’t know why you can’t just move Gates to LG and start Stromberg.

 

The center depth is better with Gates, Stromberg and Larsen vs Roullier, Larsen and Schweitzer. You at least now have a young body that has not been through the ringer injurywise
 

Again, I think they are one guy away from me being more comfortable with the line but they are definitely better off vs last year

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Because Martin is going to start at center from what I've heard.  He's not depth.   I mentioned that in one of my posts. 

 

Nick Martin isn't on an NFL roster. When comparing last seasons center situation with this seasons, everyone seems to pretend Nick Martin getting more snaps than Roullier didn't happen and that the loss of Roullier in 2023 will hurt the OLine compared to what we put on the field in 2022.

 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Norwell wasn't great, he didn't suck either.  As the Draft Dudes who watched this line said, Norwell was one of the serviceable guys on the O line.   Norwell and Chris Paul > Chris Paul.  As to depth.   Cosmi is arguably their best player on the O line but durability is his issue.  Ditto S. Charles.

 

I disagree with the draft dudes then. Norwell was below average. Ok in some things, but incapable in others. He's no longer able to hit targets in space. Second level guys are iffy, but getting out wide on screens and the like is almost a non-starter. He'd whiff almost every one of those plays.

 

Norwell was not awful. He wasn't Trai Turner. He was still fine in plays that fit more what he could still do. I don't think he should be in the conversation as a starter.

 

The bar to beat for improved LG play is low. The bar to beat for improved RG play is the floor. I don't think what we have in-house will be that difficult to beat the combined Guard play from 2022.

 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

At center its deeper because of Stromberg.  Tackle depth is basically the same.   They moved Cosmi out of the spot and replaced him with Wylie. 

 

 

Despite Cosmi's athleticism he was somehow weak to agile rushers, he'd overcommit then get worked by a counter. Really curious about Wylie's effectiveness there is in comparison.

 

Cosmi's lack of length probably contributed to that. Thankfully those issues for Cosmi won't be apparent inside at Guard.

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Nick Martin isn't on an NFL roster. When comparing last seasons center situation with this seasons, everyone seems to pretend Nick Martin getting more snaps than Roullier didn't happen and that the loss of Roullier in 2023 will hurt the OLine compared to what we put on the field in 2022.

 

 

My bad I meant Gates.  Somehow I transposed those names.  Of course Martin isn't the starting center next season -- Gates is.  I fixed that point on my next post that i made after that one.

 

39 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

I disagree with the draft dudes then. Norwell was below average. Ok in some things, but incapable in others. He's no longer able to hit targets in space. Second level guys are iffy, but getting out wide on screens and the like is almost a non-starter. He'd whiff almost every one of those plays.

 

Norwell was not awful. He wasn't Trai Turner. He was still fine in plays that fit more what he could still do. I don't think he should be in the conversation as a starter.

 

 

60 rating on PFF, was OK, nothing killer, nothing bad.  But my point is the depth isn't better off with just Chris Paul versus Norwell and Paul regardless of who starts.

 

39 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

 

The bar to beat for improved LG play is low. The bar to beat for improved RG play is the floor. I don't think what we have in-house will be that difficult to beat the combined Guard play from 2022.

 

 

Despite Cosmi's athleticism he was somehow weak to agile rushers, he'd overcommit then get worked by a counter. Really curious about Wylie's effectiveness there is in comparison.

 

Cosmi's lack of length probably contributed to that. Thankfully those issues for Cosmi won't be apparent inside at Guard.

 

Yeah I think Cosmi is better suited to guard. 

 

Though please sum up your point?  O line is good so relax?  Relax.  Or its good enough or maybe not good enough?  Mayhew backed up his talk and now we have good depth on the O line?  Or something else?

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

22 hours ago, method man said:

What you are not accounting for is that every single OL who is projected to make the OL has position flex. That is a major difference vs last year where Norwell and Turner were purely guards (yes Turner supposedly could play center too but I don’t think he ever took an NFL snap there) and Roullier was purely a center. 

 

You now have 4 guys who can play tackle at NFL level between Leno, Wylie, Lucas and Cosmi

 

Wylie and Gates are proven NFL starters at guard and play LG if needed. If Paul and Charles suck, I don’t know why you can’t just move Gates to LG and start Stromberg.

 

The center depth is better with Gates, Stromberg and Larsen vs Roullier, Larsen and Schweitzer. You at least now have a young body that has not been through the ringer injurywise
 

Again, I think they are one guy away from me being more comfortable with the line but they are definitely better off vs last year

 

 

 I mentioned center depth is better.  Guard depth is worse.  And tackle depth is the same.

 

Basically the changes for depth:  Stromberg, Daniels versus Schweitzer (Norwell-Paul). Paul was the depth last year.

 

Daniels and Paul to me are a wash since they are basically the same idea.  Raw but build them up in their rookie year to hopefully they can start the next year.  Both could play guard and tackle. 

 

If we want to argue Stromberg > Schweitzer.  I am good with that.  But I don't see it as position flex improvement.  I loved Stromberg as you might recall from the draft thread but i don't really see him as a guard.

 

Gates if they had to move bodies could play guard whereas Rouillier some thought could play guard but we never saw that happen.  It's been said that Gates isn't hot at guard but he could play there, that's true. 

 

But look if you or whomever are happy with this O line.  Cool, i am not here to rain on anyone's happiness about the upcoming season.  You know better than most since you spend enough time on that draft thread that you aren't going to argue your way into changing my mind on something I put a lot of thought into it.  😎. So lets agree to disagree.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

True.  But right now the 3rd QB is Jake Fromm. I don’t think he’s worth a roster spot on the 53.

 

If we are going to carry 3 QBs on the 53 they need to bring someone else in.

That could well end up being us. 

Yes, it could be us. Probably at least 3 #1’s at minimum.

 

I’d do it also, despite the high price and despite failing with RG3.  
 

Yes, we could bust big time again but we could also find our Burrow. He completely turned Cincy around and now they are team that will compete with the best AFC teams for a shot at the Superbowl.

 

It’s an aggressive move this franchise has to make.

[tmandoug1]

Pretty simple in my simple mind when it comes to this year so far. We needed to shore up our oline in a big way to give the unproven 5th/3rd round rookie, 5th team retread, and (godawful) Fromm a shot at actually showing they can play football. Running game suffers, passing game suffers, and in the end the defense will suffer from being on the field all the time which leads to fatigue, which then leads to injuries. That about sum it up?

[Skinsinparadise]

To the O line is fine crowd, I'll argue it in the most optimisitc way.  If all the ifs and buts turn to candy and nuts.  But the reason why I am skeptical is best case scenarios on spot after spot rarely happens.  But to show that I can do the if everything turns right narrative...,.

 

Howell is used to a crap offensive line and succeeded anyway.  Heck Chris Rodriguez performed well in Kentucky with a bad offensive line.  So some sarcasm in that point but the point is indeed true.  If there is someone who might not crumble with a porous offensive line it might be Howell -- he could do what he did in N Carolina, use his legs to escape pressure and freeze the pass rush at times.

 

I alsoi heard in the mix of things last year that Redacted wasn't hot at helping set protections -- from what I understand the center set protections with the offense last season but the QB also had input.  I recall it explained that the Giants in particular were moving their defense around presnap and the center and redacted just allowed the Giants to create mismatches without much adjusting at all to it.

 

RT.  Wylie's numbers weren't hot.  And maybe he's a natural guard not tackle.  But he killed it against Philly in the SB.  He's capable of solid play and is durable.  He will give solid play and gets Bieinemy's system.

 

RG.  Sam Cosmi is better suited to guard.  He can block on the 2nd level and turn into a great guard.  Yeah his durability has been bad.  But that could just be bad luck.  Why can't he stay healthy for a full season with better luck?

 

Center:  Nick Gates wasn't killer last season.  He was solid.  but a decent pass protector.  And was exposed more at guard than center so Rivera plans to use him at his best spot.  He might get better considering he's only a year past his major injury which was brutal.  He's not young but his body is likely in a better place than last year.  And if he falls apart he has Stromberg and Larsen behind him.  So at a minimum center won't fall apart this season.  I genuinely subscribe to this one point -- its the only thing I think they did well at that spot.

 

LG:  Yeah Chris Paul was a 7th rounder and a bit raw.  Yeah PFF thought he was meh in his one start and Logan Paulsen thought the same (( am about to rewatch that game and make up my own mind).  But Paulsen thought it was a good learning experience and he has good raw talent.  Some of the defensive players on this team thought highly of Paul in practice.  I thought highly of him too when I watched some of his college games after they drafted him.  So while he's clearly a wildcard, what if he takes over that spot and just kills it.  Why not?  If I had to pick a 2nd point of maybe i can see it, its this. 

 

LT:  Leno.  not the best run blocker.  But solid pass protector.  And although he had some bad games in the home stretch against division opponents -- he's a high intangibles guy who will be driven by some of those subpar performances and bring it on this seaon.

 

As for depth.  What if B. Daniels puts on a solid 10-15 pounds of muscle and is ready quicker than some expect.  Stromberg while a natural center has some run blocking chops to his game and although a bit undersized for a guard should be at least servicable in a pinch.  S. Charles this coaching staff likes and heck if Paul falters at guard, he can play there and even though like Cosmi he has struggled to stay healthy -- that can always change.  Larsen is injury prone but it doesn't matter when you are the backup and is a solid center.    Lucas is a solid backup at tackle. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise - the posters you’ve been in discussion expressed their belief the depth is improved over last year, but I don’t think either has said they’re fine with the oline (one said they’re a piece away from being comfortable there)… of course, perhaps I’m reading them wrong.

 

I’m pretty skeptical of this group myself, though I can certainly see the argument the depth has improved… particularly if we include guys getting moved, not just off the bench players (which I think is the crux of the difference of opinions).

Edited May 23, 2023 by skinny21

[MartinC]

Dalton Risner is still a free agent. He's a solid starter at OG.

 

Something must be up that he's still not signed with someone - but at face value he would be someone we should be interested in.

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@Skinsinparadise - the posters you’ve been in discussion expressed their belief the depth is improved over last year, but I don’t think either has said they’re fine with the oline (one said they’re a piece away from being comfortable there)… of course, perhaps I’m reading them wrong.

 

I’m pretty skeptical of this group myself, though I can certainly see the argument the depth has improved… particularly if we include guys getting moved, not just off the bench players (which I think is the crux of the difference of opinions).

 

I don't know what they think on the aggregate, that's why I asked one of the posters to summarize their take -- but one of them were taking on the point about improvement among starters. The other said they are "defintely" better off than last year on the O line.  Both positions are a lot more optimistic than my take.   I think they are slighly better than last year.  They improved from IMO a unit that sucks to a unit that is likely pretty bad.    And its perfect storm IMO to finish last in the division considering our weakness is perfectly matched in a bad way to the divisions strengths. 

 

The depth IMO isn't better or if it is just barely.  And what's nuts about it to me is Mayhew called out how bad their depth was at the start of the off season. 

 

For me I think they sucked as far as addressing the O line.  They get an F from me on that front, maybe someone can talk me into a D plus if i am feeling generous. 

 

 i am far from alone on that take.  Among others, the draft media seems to think we will have one of the worst teams in the NFL next season -- a top 5 pick coming -- and there is borderline consensus that this isn't a good offensive line.

 

However, my opinion has nothing to do with the national pessimism about this roster.  I don't mirror their take in general.  I don't see this is a 5-12 team, etc like some of them do. I think they will go 7-10 maybe 8-9.   I think Ron has a good enough roster to sort of match the middiling teams he had his first three years.  I don't expect this is a slam dunk worse team versus the past like plenty of others do.  I do think its possible they are worse but I'd equally bet they will match their 8 win type of teams.

 

The defense is really good.  I got some faith in Howell.  I like the backs.  But alas the O line effects really everything.  And IMHO Rivera likely wrote his own pink slip with the crap job he did to address the spot. 

 

And part of the reason why i am pissed about it is I think he basically underminded the work he did in the first three years.  He likely leaves here with the vibe that the roster never got better because the record ends up same old same old or perhaps even worse.  But he's done a nice job to upgrade the receiving corp-defense.  He will likely hand off the roster next season to a dude who won't have to do much -- the code red spot being in all likelihood O line.  

 

In short, when they likely seriously address the O line in 2024, I think the new coach and FO will get off to a hot start.    And if the draft media is right and this season goes off the rails -- they might have a top pick to boot.  So while i am pessimistic about 2023, I like the set up for 2024. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

I am project Howell to fall in the Daniel Jones level of QB, solid starter but needs help. They did him no favors by failing to adequately improve the OL, I hope this does not hinder his development.  

[kingdaddy]

Question for our resident draft guru's: 

Can anyone provide the draft ratings for Hurts, Herbert and Howell? I'm curious to see how Howell stacks up in physical skills vs these two.

 

Thanks.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was talking earlier today about the draft media thinking we have a top 5 pick next year.  But, I don't think its going to be that level bad.

 

PFF just came out with their draft rankings based on their metrics.  They have us picking #8, they reference QB in part of their point.

 

Feels to me we'd be picking more in the 10-12 range in the draft but will see. 

 

 

 

 

8. Washington Commanders

Chance at No. 1 pick: 4.4%
Chance at top 10: 47.3%

Why they are here: There's a fairly good chance that Sam Howell and/or Jacoby Brissett will represent an upgrade at quarterback over what the Commanders got from Taylor Heinicke and Carson Wentz last season, but this team is still largely an unknown on offense. They were strong defensively a year ago and should be again on paper, though defense is harder to predict from season to season and therefore matters less when looking forward. -- Walder

How they outperform this projection: The offense must become more productive under new coordinator Eric Bieniemy, hired in the offseason to replace Scott Turner. It has not finished in the top half of the NFL in points or yards since 2017 -- and was never higher than 20th in either category under Turner. The Commanders also have to hope Howell or Brissett can be effective. But they have talent at receiver and running back, and they have an experienced defense that has been top 10 in both points and yards allowed in two of the past three seasons. Those factors could be enough finish better than ESPN's FPI is projecting. -- John Keim

[Darth Tater]

On 5/22/2023 at 1:28 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I guess we will agree to disagree.  I am somewhat of a process driven guy and i'll forgive mistakes if the process makes sense.  Simply because personnel is a crap shoot --both the draft and FA, you win some and you lose some.  But if I get what they are trying to do as long as most of their moves work, I'll give a lot of slack. The process made sense to me in the first three years.  The process made no sense to me this year unless Ron's goal was to take one for the team by setting them up for a top ten draft pick and set up his successor for success. 

 

Year 1:  Riding with Haskins (the owner's pet QB), drafting Chase Young.  In retrospect were the wrong moves.  But I get why he did it.  Overall the draft was decent.  And they did a very nice job in FA.

 

Year 2.  Fitz made sense -- best FA QB available.  They swung and missed at Stafford  They got unlucky that Fitz got hurt.     Good draft.  So so to poor FA crop.

 

Year 3.  Swung and missed at Russell Wilson.  Wanted Carr but he wasn't made available.  Got Wentz.  They got ripped off big time in the deal but I get the method to the madness of betting on a QB who was still sub 30 with high upside -- boom-bust.  He busted.  Good draft.  They did nada in FA.

 

OK after that off season, I among some others including @Koolblue13 who were optimistic on this roster bought the rhetoric that Ron was upset that the O line regressed and it in turn derailed that season.   But all hands are on deck to fix it.  Lets do the QB spot differently and ride with Howell and as Ron said to help a young QB you need to surround him with a strong supporting cast.

 

Ron also seemed very sensitive to the idea in various interviews that the fans aren't coming to games and he wanted to earn their trust to come back. 

 

For me it all felt great.  Those 3 years are set for the kill for year 4.   Ron will focus on the offense and helping Sam be successful.  And also help Bieiniemy in year 1 to be successful from the start.  Felt like it was no brainer territory.  And I was so convinced that Ron would follow up on his rhetoric that I defended him to his haters on this board in advance that he's got this all handled and they should chill. 

 

But in my book my faith was misplaced.   Ron had more of a defense side of the ball focused draft.    He did very little in FA.   Some who cover the team don't expect either O lineman they took in the draft to contribute this season -- heck Ron even implied the same with one of those two players.   

 

RT slightly improved, depth weaker IMO on O line.  That's Ron's version of all hands on deck to fix what sunk them last season?  And I can forgive that a little if Ron decided not to go full out at O line because he wanted to throw a bone to the new ownership and get a player or two or make a move that would juice the fans a little considering Ron didn't do much of that since he's been here. 

 

Not that I personally care about juicing up the fan base.  But at least I can understand fixing O line might come off boring so I'd sort of get it if Ron drafted or signed some offensive weapon that would sell jerseys and create some buzz for a team that's arguably one of the most boring in the NFL -- I wouldn't like that approach as to making a move like that but I understand it.  But he did neither thing IMO.  Granted he still could.  And who knows just because I among plenty of others don't think he came close to fixing that O line -- doesn't mean its so -- will see.  But right now, I hate his off season.  I didn't hate the previous ones.

In 2020, Ron had a chance to mend fences with Trent Williams and this fail was the beginning of turning our greatest strength into our greatest weakness and he never has focused on it.  A few years later, while Snyder was probably a big part of the problem and maybe his loyalty to Scott Turner, he failed with Scherf. In 2020, while he did have Haskins and defense was a huge problem, so it is a bit understandable but the guys were available to him at QB and that is what makes it bad (though, yes, it is mitigated by other issues). The resources were THERE for his taking. In 2021, we passed on superior resources that were available and again HE SWUNG AND MISSED, this is what makes it bad while ignoring our most critical need. In 2022, he over payed resources-wise for a guy that he knew (or should have known) he was over paying for and ignored our most critical need. This could be over-shadowed IF Howell is what we hope (Dotson and B-Rob look like what they SHOULD be though they do show indications that they might be more). He again failed at doing anything to fix our critical weakness (though I'll admit nothing better might have been available). 2023 is the first year that Ron seems to be addressing the one thing that has gotten worse every year he's been here, our starting field position (we have a potential return specialist and brought in some ball-hawks). He went after guys who show ability to fix our greatest weakness on defense, inability to get off the field on 1st and second downs while getting guys who can potentially bail the offense out. He signed the best DT available. He had no real opportunity at QB but did seem to get himself a huge plus at OC.  Going with Howell is HIS best option given the options available though he made sure that if Howell if an F, we have a floor available to us with probably the best backup QB out there. There were no better resources available to fix the big oline problem after fixing the above. The personnel problems we still have now are primarily due to fails in 2020-2022.

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

In 2020, Ron had a chance to mend fences with Trent Williams and this fail was the beginning of turning our greatest strength into our greatest weakness and he never has focused on it.  A few years later, while Snyder was probably a big part of the problem and maybe his loyalty to Scott Turner, he failed with Scherf. In 2020, while he did have Haskins and defense was a huge problem, so it is a bit understandable but the guys were available to him at QB and that is what makes it bad (though, yes, it is mitigated by other issues). The resources were THERE for his taking. In 2021, we passed on superior resources that were available and again HE SWUNG AND MISSED, this is what makes it bad while ignoring our most critical need. In 2022, he over payed resources-wise for a guy that he knew (or should have known) he was over paying for and ignored our most critical need. This could be over-shadowed IF Howell is what we hope (Dotson and B-Rob look like what they SHOULD be though they do show indications that they might be more). He again failed at doing anything to fix our critical weakness (though I'll admit nothing better might have been available). 2023 is the first year that Ron seems to be addressing the one thing that has gotten worse every year he's been here, our starting field position (we have a potential return specialist and brought in some ball-hawks). He went after guys who show ability to fix our greatest weakness on defense, inability to get off the field on 1st and second downs while getting guys who can potentially bail the offense out. He signed the best DT available. He had no real opportunity at QB but did seem to get himself a huge plus at OC.  Going with Howell is HIS best option given the options available though he made sure that if Howell if an F, we have a floor available to us with probably the best backup QB out there. There were no better resources available to fix the big oline problem after fixing the above. The personnel problems we still have now are primarily due to fails in 2020-2022.

 

I get the point but IMO he had opportunities.  With Trent, there were extenuating circumstances so I give him a pass.  As with Scherff he tried to get him back but he wanted to leave.

 

While I give them a pass for those moves, they could have done things over the years to improve that unit.

 

Among them, I among others liked Darrisaw in the draft and its not like they didn't need the O line help back then.  They passed on him.  They took Jamin Davis instead.  Darrisaw has been a stud.  

 

As for them signing the best DT available.  Did you mean OT?  Wylie?

 

He can address multiple needs at the same time. 

 

There are excuses for every move.  I get it for example I also thought Chase Young > Andrew Thomas.  But it hasn't played out that way.  Darrisaw > Jamin Davis.  It's not just Qb mistakes.  And while its great that they have rationales for their personnel mistakes eventually they add up.  And look I'd forgive them for not being aggressive addressing the O line in the drafts if they amped it up in FA but they don't do that either.

 

I think @MartinC might be right in that he gets the impression that they don't value putting resources into the O line.  It sure comes off that way.  So the next time Ron hypes winning the trenches, he should couch that by saying the D line specifically --not both sides of the trenches.

 

This is season 4 of a rebuild.  It's plenty of time to address multiple needs.  And if the result is a tread water season or worse yet a step down season as most of the national media-draft media, anayltics types expect -- he should be canned.  In year 4 you should at least have a winng record for the first time. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

The Washington Commanders just wrapped up their first practice of OTAs. Here are some observations from the afternoon.

-- It was the first time we got to see Sam Howell working in Eric Bieniemy’s offense, and he looked the part taking the first team reps in 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 drills. His arm strength also showed itself in spurts; during individual drills, he rolled out to his right and unloaded a 30-yard shot to Curtis Samuel with a flick of the wrist.

-- Howell looked in command of the offense in the huddle and during plays, but his accuracy stuck out on several occasions. He only had four incompletions combined in both 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 drills: one was out of bounds targeting Brian Robinson, but the rest were drops. One of the more impressive passes was to Terry McLaurin with Benjamin St-Juste bearing down on him. Another highlight was a sideline toss to John Bates, who made the snag right before Jartavius Martin could break up the play.

[zCommander]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Feels to me we'd be picking more in the 10-12 range in the draft but will see. 

 

I have us picking #32 in 2024.... puts down colored B&G Kool-Aid glasses. 

[FootballZombie]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Feels to me we'd be picking more in the 10-12 range in the draft but will see. 

 

I think that's a lot more likely than the pundits that have us belly-flopping into the deep end next year.

 

I feel like we could almost put Logan Thomas at QB and scrape together some wins. The roster aint trash, its just poorly assembled.

 

 

Lean on the D... Run the ball... several wins. Its not pretty and its not ideal, but you work with what ya got.

[RandyHolt]

Buzzkill alert. Lean on the D is going to be bend dont break. You know the drill. Run the ball slow the game down and keep scores low keep rockstar QBs in check and hope to win 20-17. We are not going to attack QBs and try to pitch shutouts that way I envision we need to play to win with a noob QB and shaky OL and defense the strength of the team by drafting DL with our top picks for years now.  Our D by design will give up 10 minute drives and hope to keep teams to a FG.

 

I HATE watching great defenses play passive but after 2+ decades of conservative play calling on D I wont be fooled into thinking our D will dictate games and try to KO QBs. Instead opposition OCs will know exactly what we will do week in and week out.  Now JDR did throw in a few blitzes last year before getting pinned back inside our 20 but with Sam at the helm do not expect an attacking defense at all.

 

I know BDB works well enough to eek out 7 wins but its boring af and doesn't use aggressive studs on D to their strengths. Our defense is dictated to all year meanwhile our offense is attacked all year.

Edited May 24, 2023 by RandyHolt

[DWinzit]

19 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Buzzkill alert. Lean on the D is going to be bend dont break. You know the drill. Run the ball slow the game down and keep scores low keep rockstar QBs in check and hope to win 20-17. We are not going to attack QBs and try to pitch shutouts that way I envision we need to play to win with a noob QB and shaky OL and defense the strength of the team by drafting DL with our top picks for years now.  Our D by design will give up 10 minute drives and hope to keep teams to a FG.

 

I HATE watching great defenses play passive but after 2+ decades of conservative play calling on D I wont be fooled into thinking our D will dictate games and try to KO QBs. Instead opposition OCs will know exactly what we will do week in and week out.  Now JDR did throw in a few blitzes last year before getting pinned back inside our 20 but with Sam at the helm do not expect an attacking defense at all.

 

I know BDB works well enough to eek out 7 wins but its boring af and doesn't use aggressive studs on D to their strengths. Our defense is dictated to all year meanwhile our offense is attacked all year.

The team needs to adopt more of a go for the jugular approach for sure. They never step on the throat of an opponent when they have em down. That needs to change

[illone]

31 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

The team needs to adopt more of a go for the jugular approach for sure. They never step on the throat of an opponent when they have em down. That needs to change