Death of a Fanbase

[hail2skins]

The home attendance numbers for the competitive portion of 2018 (aside from Dallas) show roughly a 10K disparity from today (50K vs 60K). I was there for the first five 2018 games and the club and upper levels looked pretty dismal, so I don't know if you'd be able to determine much of an difference between those games and this season's so far.

 

The early 2019 home slate included two high interest opponents in the Cowboys and Pats, but as we know the season went way south early and the crowds for the latter part of that season were bad.

 

But I do remember commenting in threads in seasons prior to 2018 where I'd go to a game and then see the official attendance number and think "no bleeping way were there that many people there today."

Edited October 14, 2021 by hail2skins

[my_friend_goo]

7 hours ago, ananoman said:

I love how people take negative statements about the WFT and spin them so that it isn't as bad as reported.....as if this wreck of a franchise needs or deserves anyone coming to their defense and standing up for them.

That's not what I did at all. I even go as far as to state the situation is dire. I'm even one of the people in this post that's gone as far as to say I can hardly be bothered anymore.

 

There's clearly something up with the ESPN stats. Attendance doesn't plummet with the arrival of Zorn, it's actually marginally higher than Gibbs' last year yet going from approx 88000 to 88500 per is a drop from 110% of capacity to 97%, even though max capacity didn't change. Correct that first figure and it would put us around 20th in the league in 2007, not 2nd, and that's with no home attendance stats reported for 4 teams.

 

Of course, we don't need unreliable self-reported figures which are propped up by away fans to tell us what the eye can see. But don't call me out for bothering to try and understand the numbers in more detail when you presumably haven't.

[Chris 44]

8 hours ago, kleese said:

My theory is that there really aren’t that many of us— I’m talking the true, nitty gritty, message board regular, emotionally attached, die hard fans. That goes for ALL teams. I think the majority of fans of every single team are more on the casual side— it’s something fun and communal they enjoy. And in the seasons or stretches of seasons where the team isn’t competitive, they can tune out fairly easily and tune back in. 
 

The die hards chose to be that way, from what I believe is a very deep and psychological desire to be part of a team. Most of the fans that I’ve met that I consider to be “like me” are uber competitive and strongly value some older school ideals like loyalty, common cause, etc. I also think their is an understanding (maybe subconscious) that you can only achieve the thrill of fully enjoying the 1991 team if you also make yourself vulnerable to the bad outcomes. For me, it’s like my version of an adrenaline rush. Some people ride rollercoasters or jump out of planes or day trade. The action keeps them coming. For me, the “action” is attaching myself to the outcome of specific sports teams. It gives me a thrill outside of my day to day life that I don’t get anywhere else. I enjoy not knowing what will happen and starting a Gameday understanding that something out of my control is going to dictate how I feel. I know I will feel better with a win and worse with a loss— and the build up to that and the actual game experience is essentially an adrenaline rush chasing one of those two outcomes. 
 

So I know if I give it up, I’ll give up the pain, frustration, and disappointment that comes with the losing. But I’ll also give up the thrill and hope and adrenaline that comes with the winning- or at the very least— the hope of winning. And every time I picture that, it feels boring to me. Not something I want. I do my day to day stuff all the other days. I don’t want Sundays to become another day or errands and not getting too up or too down about anything. I want the rush. 
 

If I felt I could just switch teams and have it be the same, I obviously would have done that long ago. Problem is, in one form or another, I’ve always hated the other 31 teams in the league— because they were all the enemy at one point or another. In no way could I ever root for one of them. MAYBE if the league expanded again there would be a possibility there. But I doubt it. My pain from this franchise started in the Norv years, pre-Snyder. I’m in for the long haul now and determined to see it through. I just try and focus Sunday to Sunday. Hope this Sunday they do something that makes me happy. Move on to the next one. 
 

I still have a ton of fun with it and accept my role as a die hard fan caught up in the whirlwind of a dysfunctional franchise. Maybe even a small part of me takes pride in that. Stubborn, competitive, not wanting to quit.  
 

 

My wife is from Philadelphia and she will tell you she's a "die hard" Eagles fan all her life. Yet she couldn't tell you a single current Eagles players name. lol

Like you said a "casual fan" who swears she's a die hard but in reality isn't at all vested or at the end of the day or really cares. I sometimes wish I was more like her. lol

[hail2skins]

3 hours ago, my_friend_goo said:

There's clearly something up with the ESPN stats. Attendance doesn't plummet with the arrival of Zorn, it's actually marginally higher than Gibbs' last year yet going from approx 88000 to 88500 per is a drop from 110% of capacity to 97%, even though max capacity didn't change. Correct that first figure and it would put us around 20th in the league in 2007, not 2nd, and that's with no home attendance stats reported for 4 teams.

ESPN's numbers are faulty. Just looking at the ones from 2006-2008, the raw numbers in 2006-7, combined with the percent of capacity, would have the capacity during 2006-7 at a little over 80K. Which wasn't true......it was a bit over 80K before 2004, the year when the dream seats and cave (200 level on the visitors side) seats increased seating capacity by at least 10K to over 90K.  The 2008 numbers seem to reflect that capacity.  Like today, the stadium's capacity is listed at 82K, but I don't think that's accurate. Between the number of seats ripped out of the upper deck and the tarped and chained off SRO sections within the club and upper deck, I think you're looking at 75K tops today.

 

And again, the way attendance figures were reported has changed. When the team was still selling tickets to brokers, those seats were listed as "attended," regardless of whether anyone ever bought them from the broker and showed up to the game. These days, it seems like the numbers are more accurately reflecting butts in seats.

[burgngold fan]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:59 PM, ananoman said:

The fact that we are debating over which team sucked less over the past 20 years, the Bills, the WFT, Browns, Lions , or Jags  is just sad.

Can't seem to find this out without going to each teams schedule and counting only there home losses.  But I would bet that Washington's home record is worse than any other team in the NFL. Going back 20 years.  Last year alone 2-6 at home.  And truth be told.  Washington has played some of the ugliest games at home.  You can't tell me that alone, has taken its toll on fans.  

[Renegade7]

After today, this is how I feel now, real talk

 

 

[hail2skins]

1 hour ago, burgngold fan said:

Can't seem to find this out without going to each teams schedule and counting only there home losses.  But I would bet that Washington's home record is worse than any other team in the NFL. Going back 20 years.  Last year alone 2-6 at home.  And truth be told.  Washington has played some of the ugliest games at home.  You can't tell me that alone, has taken its toll on fans.  

The 2-17 home Monday night record at FedEx is the most mind-blowing.

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

The 2-17 home Monday night record at FedEx is the most mind-blowing.

About to be 2-18 after next month too  

[Ghost of]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

After today, this is how I feel now, real talk

 

 

Now there seems no reason why I should carry on
In this league that once was my league
I can't find a home
It's lonely and it's quiet
And the away team fans are cheering
Think it's time I took the Metro
And ceased my senseless sneering

For soon I'll find the yellow moon
Along with my great heroes
Where the legends dance over RFK field
Without a scoreboard of zeroes

And the red sun sinks, at last
sets on burgundy and gold
And peace to this young Redskin fan
Comes without a glimmer of..hooooope.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin

[Warhead36]

5 hours ago, hail2skins said:

The 2-17 home Monday night record at FedEx is the most mind-blowing.

Not only do we lose but we often get blown out. I'm pretty sure the average margin of defeat in our home MNF games is around 20 points.

[NoCalMike]

The ironic thing is I think the fans outside of the the general "territory" are often way more excited to go see the team live because they only get that chance once every other season or so, it ends up being a big deal.  When I saw them play the Rams in LA, before the new stadium was built, I swear it was 60-40 WFT fans there. 

[Boss_Hogg]

49 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The ironic thing is I think the fans outside of the the general "territory" are often way more excited to go see the team live because they only get that chance once every other season or so, it ends up being a big deal.  When I saw them play the Rams in LA, before the new stadium was built, I swear it was 60-40 WFT fans there. 

 

Same here in Florida. I went to the Skins-Dolphins game in 2019, lots of Burgundy in the crowd

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

Same here in Florida. I went to the Skins-Dolphins game in 2019, lots of Burgundy in the crowd

 

An ATL writer called their stadium Fed Ex south a few weeks ago b/c he said the crowd was 50/50

[Peregrine]

Ive spent almost 90% of my life watching every single game, and through most of that time the idea of not watching every single play of every single game was unthinkable.  But the reality now is my son knows almost nothing about them because I care too much about him, and when my wife says theres a get together on Sunday but she knows its football time so she expects me to stay home and watch the game, I just go "No, Id rather go, maybe Ill watch it later.  Maybe."

 

I never contemplated the thought that being a sports obsessed person I might not want to share my favorite sports team with my kids but...thats where we have been and will be for the foreseeable future.  I would take the Cowboys winning the super bowl if it got rid of Dan Snyder, how sad is that?

[redskinss]

I'm going hiking with my family Sunday.

I already know what's going to happen.

Around 2ish, out of morbid curiosity I'll check the score.

The chiefs will have around a 17 point lead and I'll be bothed relieved that I didn't waste my Sunday on this crap and angry at the same time.

Been on this ride far too long!

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

I've said it before..I'll go fishing/hunting/hiking/kayaking/sailing/jogging now and come back to see the score...IF it WAS a good game..I MAY watch it on Seasons4U. Been a "fan" since 1968 and have a GREAT MANY GOOD FEELINGS watching Allen/Gibbs that  I don't want polluted by watching a unmotivated team/coach effort wearing the colors. At least the Giants DC ripped into their defensive unit for its performance...where is the fire in "our" coaches? (much less the players- I don't see much emotion out there after they have been burned).

 

Why NOT sit Collins for a game and try a different combo...can the secondary unit play any worse? Send a message, cause the players aren't listening.

[Burgold]

On 10/12/2021 at 7:47 PM, Burgold said:

I'd say it's because all the side issues.  So much of what happens around this organization is ugly and demands we turn a blind eye, rationalize, or compartmentalize. We say, "Well, that's Danny" or "That's Bruce" and pretend our team is not dirty. It's crazy how many controversies and how much slime this team has accumulated over the years. It wears you out. Most of us want to root for the good guys and sometimes it's hard to think of the 'skins as the good guys. I'd like to think that aspect is changing. If nothing else, Ron Rivera seems like a good guy.

 

You can root for losers, especially if their hustling, and the characters are likable. It's harder when the problem is the team is underachieving or full of themselves. Harder yet when the negative stuff off the field bleeds into the game.

 

 

 

So building on my previous point, I open the paper this week and do I read about the team struggling or the mounting injuries? No, I read about DEA agents, a screwed up recognition for Sean Taylor, and this exchange between Allen and Gruden. The football side once again gets buried. I don't know that any of these stories actually move the needle in tems of my fandom, but they encourage fatigue, and a sense of "Here we go again"

 

That said, I believe Jason Write when he writes that the Sean Taylor announcement was badly handled and wasn't a rushed-PR stunt, I already knew Bruce Allen was a slimeball and he's not even part of the team anymore, and we've even been told that the DEA thing is unrelated to the team. Nevertheless, football is supposed to be about escape from real life woes not a piling on of more garbage. So, do I blame fans who say "Let me dial my fandom back a bit."? Not at all. Thirty years is a long time to wander in the desert hoping to find the land of milk and honey.

 

 

Luckily, the fix is relatively easy:

 

Give me a year that's free of the side stuff. Give me players to rally around. Give me a team that after a minor success doesn't get a big head and then on the field act like they've never played football before in their lives. Make it fun to be a 'skins fan. Heck... some wins wouldn't hurt either.

 

Easy doesn't mean possible though. It doesn't even mean probable. Still, it is easy for a team to make its fan love them. That's what we want to do. We're dying for a reason to cheer. We're still here. We may not be going to the stadium all that much (or at all) but we're still waiting for the coals to be kindled. For me, I don't think it happens because of a draft pick (like RGIII) or a Cinderella story (like Heinike). I mean both jumpstart the flames, but they're sparks. They don't keep the fire going unless all the other stuff is addressed or better yet... if all the other stuff stops.

 

[ixcuincle]

so sad most our young people around here have adopted another team as their own

 

snyder has killed a generation from 2000-2020

 

all they have known is mediocrity

 

old people like me I started following in 2000 when I was in HS so half of my life has been spent watching this team flounder. I am loyal but I can see why people lose faith. If you as a kid and see this team choke constantly and finish .500 or worse it doesn't really give you much hope.

[Burgold]

53 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

so sad most our young people around here have adopted another team as their own

 

snyder has killed a generation from 2000-2020

 

all they have known is mediocrity

 

old people like me I started following in 2000 when I was in HS so half of my life has been spent watching this team flounder. I am loyal but I can see why people lose faith. If you as a kid and see this team choke constantly and finish .500 or worse it doesn't really give you much hope.

Nah, we comfort ourselves when we call it mediocrity. The periods of mediocrity have been the rare high points over the last 30 years. 

[hailer21]

Cause of death: Daniel Snyder

 

I could endure the pain of losing on the field - the toxicity of the regime, I ultimately could not. 

 

Nothing will resuscitate the fanbase to what it was up thru Gibbs 2.0 - no new stadium, no superstar QB, not even a superbowl. There will be a "yeah, but..." in the minds of pretty much every fan that has checked out by now.

 

Comparing the current state of our fanbase to the other cellar dweller orgs around the league is apples and oranges. Those other franchises are not in the same class as ours when it comes to off the field incompetence and organizational toxicity.

 

The root problem is ole Dan doesn't care about anyone but himself. I do believe he badly wants to win but only for the sake of his own glory - he gives absolutely zero poos about the fanbase or his employees.

 

Unfortunately, he's too stupid to realize that we were the ones that created the monetary value of the franchise to begin with. His utter lack of empathy has resulted in what we've got today and there's no saving grace from here. It's OVAH! 

 

RIP

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by hailer21

[Skinsfan1311]

58 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

so sad most our young people around here have adopted another team as their own

 

snyder has killed a generation from 2000-2020

 

all they have known is mediocrity

 

old people like me I started following in 2000 when I was in HS so half of my life has been spent watching this team flounder. I am loyal but I can see why people lose faith. If you as a kid and see this team choke constantly and finish .500 or worse it doesn't really give you much hope.

"old people?"  🤣

I've been a fan since '72 and was a senior in HS when they won they're first Super Bowl.  (Get off my lawn!!)

It's even worse for us actual old people, who remember the great teams.   To see how far this franchise has fallen in depressing.

I have mad respect for the younger generation of fans who have never seen the greatness, but stick with team anyway.   I've gone through some lean years as a fan, (the Skins were pretty bad for a lot of years, prior to those SB winning teams), but nothing as bad as this.

it's sad how far the team has fallen, and how they've alienated the fan base.

[RichmondRedskin88]

I watch the games with parents when I can and they get upset especially my dad but I just don’t get upset anymore.  I feel like our wins out are fools gold and the losses are expected.  I use to throw on a jersey every Sunday.  I hardly do that anymore.  Watching us suck, watching our stadium taken over, watching year after year of trash,  off field embarrassing, etc. it’s just too much. 

[Koolblue13]

I graduated high school in 91, so they were great through my childhood and much like life, disappointing as an adult.

[LightningBuggs]

48 minutes ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

"old people?"  🤣

I've been a fan since '72 and was a senior in HS when they won they're first Super Bowl.  (Get off my lawn!!)

It's even worse for us actual old people, who remember the great teams.   To see how far this franchise has fallen in depressing.

I have mad respect for the younger generation of fans who have never seen the greatness, but stick with team anyway.   I've gone through some lean years as a fan, (the Skins were pretty bad for a lot of years, prior to those SB winning teams), but nothing as bad as this.

it's sad how far the team has fallen, and how they've alienated the fan base.

 

We're the same age and became fans at the same time.  I was a hardcore fan in the 70's and 80's.  Read newspapers all week leading up to the games, blocked off gamedays, and watched highlights/read newspaper recaps on Mon/Tues.

 

Started my career job in DC during the last Super Bowl season and was fortunate enough to go to both playoff games at RFK.  Great memories.

 

Nowadays, that's what I focus on...those memories.  I think about where I was for big games, who I watched them with, etc.

 

My attachment to this current version is nil.  And that saddens me a little.

[thebluefood]

I can't speak for other folks who became fans after the glory years but this franchise is basically like a family relative. I'm a Washingtonian (albeit born just over the state line in Silver Spring), my father's a Washingtonian, my grandparents are/were Washingtonians and depending on which strain of the family we're talking about, I've had folks in the city since it was established. I'm no different, in that way at least, than those generational Red Sox fans in Boston or Cubs fans in Chicago. This team is - or at least was - a civic institution. It's woven in the DNA of Washingtonians in a way I don't think a lot of people understand. In a city where you have to share everything with the country - it's the "national" this or the "federal" that - our pro sports teams are *ours* and that's especially for this football team. They've been here the longest and have had the longest streaks of success.

 

This franchise is like a relative but they've become an estranged relative and one that's become increasingly embarrassing to be associated with. You want them to get their **** together because you know they can be better but they just won't do it and as an individual, there's nothing you can really do to make them better. So all you can do for your own sake is distance yourself from them.