Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

I would give up three 1sts and one of our 3rds this year for Watson and not bat an eye. We just became SB contenders for years in the NFC and Houston gets three 1st rounders all higher lower than #19 and most likely in the mid twenties. 

Getting Watson would put us over the top and this team would be set, especially after adding a big time WR. The rest would be about building the defense and adding to the offensive line depth. I am also very confident that we are going hard after him....that's how Dan has always worked. Shoot for the stars and open up the wallet.

Not a chance. I don’t believe we are SB contenders without those three ones.

 

Nor do I believe the picks are all in the 20s and 30s. Anything can happen. But it’s not a wager I’d make.

Edited January 28, 2021 by KDawg

[Long Time Fan]

28 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Either way, if I remember correctly, I read there were some reports that Watson likes Miami and the Jets. Both of those teams could easily blow us out of the water in any trade.

This can't be stressed enough.  Unless the Jags, Miami, and the Jets all decide that they want to pass on Watson I think there is almost no chance we can get him.  Houston will be losing a franchise QB and you have to think that their top priority will be to replace him.  If Houston passes on an offer that includes a top 3 pick this year then they are willingly putting themselves in the same position as us, Indy, Carolina etc - scrambling to find a quarterback to anchor their team.  Theoretically we could make an offer that makes passing on one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the draft worth it but my guess is that it will have to be something insane like 4 or 5 first rounders.  I don't think it is a coincidence that Watson has (allegedly) stated that he would be open to a trade to Miami or the Jets.  Unless we secretly hired Vinny Cerrato to handle the negotiations for us, I don't see any chance of us landing Watson.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

51 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Raw end of what stick? He’s in one of the most beneficial, QB-friendly offenses in the league. He stinks and will not be better elsewhere. No reason to think they’re making things harder for him over there in a way another team could avoid. And he’s been loaded with weapons and for multiple seasons in the past good defenses, too. 

 

I was going to say the same thing. With a dominant defense and that offensive design it's hard to imagine a QB in a better position for success. Goff is good when things are great around him, like in our game, but when it gets harder he is average at best.  And that won't get any better on another team, it will only get worse. 

[ExoDus84]

We won't be able to pay all of our stud D-lineman. If we're putting together a package for Stafford, how about #19 this year, and Jon Allen/Payne? We still have Io and big Tim Settle to fill the void. I would think something like that would get it done.

[skins2victory]

People keep talking about how they would give 3 1st's, 2nd's,  plus for Watson because he is "Elite". Watson is a good QB, no doubt, but I don't think he deserves the title of "Elite". At least not yet anyway, maybe he will get there. The way Heinicke played against a very very solid Tampa Bay defense that could potentially be a Superbowl Champion soon, I'd much rather roll with him, and keep our draft capital. I get Watson is good, but first round picks are worth more than what is being thrown around in these conversations, and there needs to be a point where you say "No way, that's way too much to give up", in my opinion.  

[Acworth skins fan]

Would think with Watson having a no trade clause, then demanding a trade, he should lose the no trade clause. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[JoggingGod]

5 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

People keep talking about how they would give 3 1st's, 2nd's,  plus for Watson because he is "Elite". Watson is a good QB, no doubt, but I don't think he deserves the title of "Elite". At least not yet anyway, maybe he will get there. The way Heinicke played against a very very solid Tampa Bay defense that could potentially be a Superbowl Champion soon, I'd much rather roll with him, and keep our draft capital. I get Watson is good, but first round picks are worth more than what is being thrown around in these conversations, and there needs to be a point where you say "No way, that's way too much to give up", in my opinion.  

Ashburn syndrome at its finest

[ExoDus84]

6 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

People keep talking about how they would give 3 1st's, 2nd's,  plus for Watson because he is "Elite". Watson is a good QB, no doubt, but I don't think he deserves the title of "Elite". At least not yet anyway, maybe he will get there. The way Heinicke played against a very very solid Tampa Bay defense that could potentially be a Superbowl Champion soon, I'd much rather roll with him, and keep our draft capital. I get Watson is good, but first round picks are worth more than what is being thrown around in these conversations, and there needs to be a point where you say "No way, that's way too much to give up", in my opinion.  

 

Yeah, I'd say Heinicke's one career game is definitely on par with a QB with a 3:1 career TD/INT ratio, who just put up 33 TDs and 7 INT's while playing on a terrible team, and has 4 good years of play behind him.

 

Do you work for Bruce Allen?

Edited January 28, 2021 by ExoDus84

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

We won't be able to pay all of our stud D-lineman. If we're putting together a package for Stafford, how about #19 this year, and Jon Allen/Payne? We still have Io and big Tim Settle to fill the void. I would think something like that would get it done.

Payne is probably the best of the group, and I wouldn't trade him.  Allen might be Rivera's favorite player on the team.  He's solid as hell, and a leader, though not spectacular.  Matty I. is the best pass rusher.  Settle is just ok as a rotational backup.  

 

I get the "down the road you can't pay all of them," but if you're making a move for Stafford, then you're trying to win now, and you want all of them.  I'd be more inclined to only trade draft picks, and more of them if necessary, to get Stafford and then load up for the next 3 years. Don't fill one hole and create another.  Also, one of the DT is going to get hurt every year.  You have a position of strength, don't lessen it.

 

If Watson is a possibility, then you are going to have to trade a blue chip player + 2 firsts.  That's either Young, Sweat or McLaurin.  I doubt Allen, Payne or MI would count.  I would trade Sweat and 2 1sts for Watson.  Though I'm not even sure that would get it done.  I would not trade Young.  

 

Watson is great.  He's a force multiplier.  However, Drew Brees, in his prime, QB 3 straight 7-9 seasons because the Saints defense was historically bad.  You need more than just a QB.  However, with Watson, you're not looking at a 3-4 year window, you're looking at a 10 year window because he's young, so you can trade a piece and know you're going to have time to get it back.  You can't do that if you trade for Stafford. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[skins2victory]

2 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

Do you work for Bruce Allen?

No way, screw that slime ball. I work for Vinny Cerrato.

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Easy to say when you sign a free agent and don’t have to give major assets, Coach.

[Skinsinparadise]

lets say we pick somewhere between 18-32 in the first round in the next 3 years which I think would be close to slam dunk if we got Watson.  

 

That pick could be a Josh Doctson, Rod Gardner, Jason Campbell, Montez Sweat, Patrick Ramsey  (2000 picks in that range)

 

I'd trade all 5 of them for Deshaun Watson.  I get the past isn't always prologue but there is a big difference picking in the later half of the first versus the top half.  Our success rate is night and day between picking early and picking late.

 

For those who say we could still be picking earlier, I don't get it.   We pick 19th this draft.  We add a top 5 QB and spend some of our cap room and take a step back?  I agree with Sheehan who says we'd be an instant SB contender if we landed Watson

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Die Hard]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Easy to say when you sign a free agent and don’t have to give major assets, Coach.

 

Like Brady, Gronk, Brown and Fournette?

[JoggingGod]

We have a big cap advantage over Carolina and Chicago

[FootballZombie]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For those who say we could still be picking earlier, I don't get it

 

Injuries I guess?

 

You add Watson to this roster and we are unquestioned NFC E favs. That is div win and at min pick 19.

 

If key players get hurt, then yeah, you can have a bum year. On paper tho, you wont be picking higher than 19 any time soon.

[goskins10]

I am in no way saying Settle is untradeable. If adding him got a deal done, great. However, I think people here undervalue his contribution. He is 4th on the team in sacks with 5 behond only Sweat, Young, and Ryan - the others all play End not T. This despite play less than half the snaps for both Payne and Allen, the starting DTs. He also has 5 tackles for loss - Allen only has 3 despite way more than double the defensive snaps (have to remove Settles ST snaps). Below are his stats and snaps. 

 

Again, not saying he is the best on the team but people keep saying he is average at best, jsut ok, etc. He would be starting on most other teams at DT. He can also play NT, and very well. 

 

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

 

Like Brady, Gronk, Brown and Fournette?

Exactly like those four. How much did they give up in compensation for them? Oh... no draft picks? Huh. That’s helpful.

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lets say we pick somewhere between 18-32 in the first round in the next 3 years which I think would be close to slam dunk if we got Watson.  

 

That pick could be a Josh Doctson, Rod Gardner, Jason Campbell, Montez Sweat, Patrick Ramsey  (2000 picks in that range)

 

I'd trade all 5 of them for Deshaun Watson.  I get the past isn't always prologue but there is a big difference picking in the later half of the first versus the top half.  Our success rate is night and day between picking early and picking late.

 

For those who say we could still be picking earlier, I don't get it.   We pick 19th this draft.  We add a top 5 QB and spend some of our cap room and take a step back?  I agree with Sheehan who says we'd be an instant SB contender if we landed Watson

 

Because a single QB doesn’t make a roster.

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But the debate is sort of like what's better a burger or a hotdog when the goal is to eat streak.  I don't find the discussion that interesting and if anything its sad and defeatist.  Beck or Rex?   Friez or Ferrotte or Shuler?  Campbell or Brunell?  Brunell or Ramsey?  

 

It is until we get to the point of where we are now. We keep drafting bad QBs. Whether its Ramsey, Campbell, RG3 or Haskins. Its not like I'm frustrated that we're going down this cycle every 10 years or so, its almost literally every 3 years we waste a first rounder. Then when that pick is a bust we waste a third rounder to compensate and get a respectable team. I don't mind playing the lottery but I do mind if the money you're buying lottery tickets with was supposed to pay the light bill. Some say that once you get a franchise QB, then you can start building or then it gets easier, but that means we sit and suck for years and years while our next 5 or 6 QBs suck, or we go after the mediocre QB to get us to 8-8 and maybe 10-6 to look respectable since we're tired of 5-11 seasons. That's what happened with the Brunell trade and the McNabb trade. Why not just keep the QB who can be a game manager and keep building until you see a QB you think is THE ONE, and then just go all in on them - like KC did. Not this take a QB because we need one and this guy's got a strong arm or has mobility. 

 

 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

My line for Stafford is a 1 and 3. 

 

I understand how good Stafford is, but I have serious trepidations about trading for him. He's 33--and yes players are healthier and play longer, but how many times have we done this? Made the one-player-away trade and declared ourselves Super Bowl contenders? And, then, how many times has that one player wholly underwhelmed. I know it's apples to oranges, but I keep thinking about Russell Westbrook. That trade was lauded, by and large, and has completely flopped in this early season. 

 

And the only QBs to lead their teams to the Super Bowl over the last 20 years or so that were not drafted by their current team are the GOATs: Manning, Brady, and Brees--all sure-fire, first-ballot HOFers.

 

It makes me worried.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Injuries I guess?

 

You add Watson to this roster and we are unquestioned NFC E favs. That is div win and at min pick 19.

 

If key players get hurt, then yeah, you can have a bum year. On paper tho, you wont be picking higher than 19 any time soon.

 

Anything is possible but if you add Watson to thios roster and spend some cap money and add some picks, the odds that this team takes a step back as opposed to forward is pretty small.  it would have to be some big time injuries. 

[wit33]

 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's not an insider but will see

 

 

 

Have to imagine Stafford is seeking a rock solid situation that is the antithesis of what he’s been a part of with the Lions organization. Difficult for me to connect dots to him wanting to play for Washington. Not saying it’s right or wrong just when looking at it from his point of view.