A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Wildbunny]

7 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

This makes no sense. And a lot of sense all at once. 
 

So the NFL missed a deadline to hand findings over to Congress…why? I understand no written report was handed into the league but Wilkinson’s firm didn’t keep all of the information after the presentation? How can it all be so disorganized?  Even if there was no written report, it had to be presented somehow, some way. Was that discarded?

 

Was an investigation actually completed? 

That's my thinking about it. Somehow Wilkinson had to have a report about the investigation.

If she doesn't have one anymore it's quite probable that she was specificly asked/pay to discard it right after. But that would hardly make sense.

 

NFL is used to not have written reports when it comes to NFL owners, as compared to players.

Could the congress asked for Wilkinson docs gained through the inquiry? I might be wrong, but the congress asked the NFL, not Wilkinson or both.

[Dissident2]

Why can't someone simply ask Wilkinson at this point? "Did you/do you have a written version of your report or not?" 

 

Don't know why that would be a question she could not answer. 

 

Also, the Sports Junkies got SOMETHING that was apparently from someone at the Wilkinson firm, suggesting there WAS a report in some form. Unless they were totally had there, which I think is doubtful (but admittedly possible). 

 

There's really no way you do an investigation like this and DON'T have plenty in writing, though. I mean, when she was reporting "orally" to Don Goodell, I seriously doubt she was just talking off the top of her head.

 

The whole thing is just bizarre as hell. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Dissident2

[FrFan]

The Congressional probe of the NFL over the WFT investigation is only just beginning

Bring on the subpoenas !

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:43 PM, SoCalSkins said:

Dan fired Norv in season with a winning record and in the playoff hunt. Fired Marty after his 8-3 finish. Spurrier quit and Gibbs retired. Fired Zorn. Fired Shanahan. Fired Gruden in season. 
 

So how does Dan not fire coaches? 

Since 2001 when Dan fired Marty (Huge mistake), he has fired 3 coaches in 20 years: Zorn, Shanahan and Gruden.  
 

Spurrier resigned and Gibbs retired.  Dan would never have fired Gibbs.  He could still be here is he wanted to be. 
 

Zorn was a dumb ass hire to begin with and needed to be fired.  
 

Shanahan was a mistake.  But he chose the QB over coach. 
 

Gruden should never have been hired. But his brother was buddy buddy with Bruce.  He got 6 seasons.  Should have been fired after 3.  
 

It’s the one criticism that is levied on Dan which is factually incorrect.  He’s still the worst owner in sports.  But the “running through coaches” thing is from 1999-2001, when he went through Norv (who needed to be fired years before he was), then Marty and to Spurrier in 3 years.  Since then, it just hasn’t been true.  

[TSO]

Why do people think the timing in which Dan fires/doesn’t fire coaches is an indicator of anything significant? 
 

I mean, honestly, the only thing it really shows is he’s petty, vindictive and cheap since he’d rather punish them while they remain than fire them and have to pay them for nothing… but, yeah, we know those “qualities” about him without having to focus on that, anyway. So, not really important. 
 

It certainly isn’t an indicator regarding his patience or lack thereof. We see that it’s by far the latter in many other aspects of his ownership, including the way he treats said coaches while they’re here. We only catch a glimpse of it here and there, but time has made the list of things we can point to pretty damn substantial if you really want to know he’s incredibly impatient and toddler-like in his reactionary attitude. We really don’t ever have to get into the timing in which he fires/keeps coaches at all to grasp it, just a few off the top of my head: 

 

1) Unwarranted interference regarding roster construction from himself, even though he’s proven time and again he’s an absolute moron at it. At first, the utter inexperience he had at it should’ve stopped him, but it didn’t. Now, the absolute disastrous results over the course of two decades to his approach should. But, again, it doesn’t. One can argue dude has zero impulse control just from this alone. 

 

2) Creating an organization-wide atmosphere of the goal being to win him over as opposed to working together and winning on the field, hence creating a factional/tribal environment with various staff/departments at odds with each other  to prove they’re right and the others are wrong. Because, hey, his ego is number one priority, everyone should be working towards making sure he agrees with them and woe unto them if they’re not. 
 

3) Hiring unqualified executives that have no business handling resource management/roster construction and sometimes aiding them in opposition to coaches. This is a great indicator of an inability to actually assess what his other consistently successful peers do on this matter, which means he actually believes he’s smarter than all of them.

 

4) Creating an organizational structure that is vague and easily corruptible, where roles that are supposed to support each other and work together end up undermining one another. Where the hierarchy means little and the subordinate can easily override the qualified authority simply by getting Dan on his side. Similar to number 3 in terms of what this shows regarding his temperament.
 

5) Over-reacting to every negative outcome as they occur instead of implementing structured processes meant to reduce said negative outcomes. Over-correcting this perceived negative by throwing numbers at it instead of attempting to understand why it occurred in the first place. Because, really guys, the reason it occurred was that he was just unlucky and/or someone he hired sabotaged him for no reason, poor Dan. Just plug it up baby, that’ll do it! 
 

6) Over-reacting to positive outcomes that were more a matter of the league’s attempt at parity than any sound process properly implemented within the organization, which results in him doubling down on his practice of not implementing sound organizational principles and the aforementioned structured processes. Because, hey look! It worked! He was right all along, damnit! 
 

7) Just being a general asshole and a stubborn, arrogant monster in most of his relationships with people (as we’ve undoubtedly gathered a ton of evidence indicating such to this point). 
 

I mean, I can go on, lol. Who gives a crap if he retains coaches for years now. Doesn’t mean anything regarding his patience (and I find it weird anyone even gives enough of a crap to correct others on it, like, really?) For me, the main reason he doesn’t immediately fire them is because of the money; both because he’s cheap and also because he can’t stand the thought of them getting paid while not working for him. He’d rather make their life miserable than do that, that’s much more important. 

[Jericho]

On 11/5/2021 at 2:23 PM, BudLighticke said:

Coaching at the pro level is not overrated. At all in my opinion. Getting a bunch of grown men making millions of dollars with access to things we could only dream of, and in some cases the guys they are coaching are older and more established in their careers, to play the ultimate team game is no easy feat. Coaching at the pro level is extremely difficult as well due to the salary cap and overall parody the league instills. Coaches need good organizational structures in place and talent to succeed, no arguments there, but to say coaching itself is overrated, I just have to disagree on that front.

 

The chiefs aren’t what they are today without Reid. The patriots don’t win those first few super bowls without the genius of Belichick. Sean Payton went 7-9 3 straight seasons WITH Drew Brees, a bad coach loses that locker room and is gone. Now he’s winning games with Taysom Hill and Jameis Winston. Bill Belichick may have been average in Cleveland, but that place became a dumpster fire for 2 decades after he left. Maybe average in that situation was actually an example of great coaching? McVay went to a Super Bowl with Jared Goff, who is now heading up one of the absolutely worst franchises in the NFL, presumably under a coach and coaching staff that is totally overmatched. Tomlin and Harbaugh are as steady as they come, and as their rosters turn over, they continue to lead their team to respective seasons and more playoff seasons than not. Bruce Arians may have been given a loaded roster, but to bring in Tom who had been in one system his whole life and adapt his coaching to fit toms strengths, all the while managing a massive amount of egos in a single locker room and win the Super Bowl is one hell of an example of how great coaching matters. I could literally go on all day.

 

Again good org structures are needed, since they are the ones identifying the coaching talent out there and bringing in the right leader of men. Coaches also DO need talent, which again is accumulated more often and successfully the more stable the organization is. But to point to a few examples  of coaches struggling without a QB in place and then parlay that into “coaching is overrated at the pro level” seems pretty absurd to me.

 

I think there's just an inherent difficulty in properly evaluating coaches. Too many, including much of the media, take the over simplistic approach of: if a team wins = coach is good; and if a team loses = coach is bad. When it is obviously much more complicated than that. I don't think there's really a good way to really "know" how good a coach is. We see Belichick head a non-playoff team both pre and post Brady. We saw Bruce Arians with Jamies Winston and then much the same team with Tom Brady. But what would happen if Mike Tomlin had to suddenly coach Jacksonville? Who knows? Is John Harbaugh a great coach or is the Baltimore franchise so well run almost anyone could do a good job there? What about Pittsburgh?

 

Most coach of the year awards are about expectations. What team exceeded expectations the most? That coach then often wins the award. Even if the expectations themselves were flawed and/or wrong. I think the ultimate problem is there is no way to know for sure about a coach. You can make educated guesses and you might be right. But there's still an element of guesswork.

[BudLighticke]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Why do people think the timing in which Dan fires/doesn’t fire coaches is an indicator of anything significant? 

As far as I can tell, no one is acting like it’s significant. It’s just not true, Snyder doesn’t cycle through coaches. That’s the only thing I’ve seen been said.

[BudLighticke]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

 

I think there's just an inherent difficulty in properly evaluating coaches. Too many, including much of the media, take the over simplistic approach of: if a team wins = coach is good; and if a team loses = coach is bad. When it is obviously much more complicated than that. I don't think there's really a good way to really "know" how good a coach is. We see Belichick head a non-playoff team both pre and post Brady. We saw Bruce Arians with Jamies Winston and then much the same team with Tom Brady. But what would happen if Mike Tomlin had to suddenly coach Jacksonville? Who knows? Is John Harbaugh a great coach or is the Baltimore franchise so well run almost anyone could do a good job there? What about Pittsburgh?

 

Most coach of the year awards are about expectations. What team exceeded expectations the most? That coach then often wins the award. Even if the expectations themselves were flawed and/or wrong. I think the ultimate problem is there is no way to know for sure about a coach. You can make educated guesses and you might be right. But there's still an element of guesswork.

I totally agree with this, there is so much that goes into it. And just like QBs that fail in the wrong environments, coaches can too. We’ve seen a lot of that around here in fact. But I don’t think that means that coaching is overrated, I think a well coached team has a large advantage over a poorly coached team, which is how I would measure the value of a coach. Can they put their team in good positions to win? Do they know the right buttons to push? Can you keep the team together during rough patches and come out stronger on the other side? There’s so much that goes into being a good coach in this league.

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

1) Unwarranted interference regarding roster construction from himself, even though he’s proven time and again he’s an absolute moron at it. 

 

2) Creating an organization-wide atmosphere of the goal being to win him over as opposed to working together and winning on the field, hence creating a factional/tribal environment with various staff/departments at odds with each other to prove they’re right and the others are wrong. 
 

3) Hiring unqualified executives that have no business handling resource management/roster construction and sometimes aiding them in opposition to coaches. 

 

4) Creating an organizational structure that is vague and easily corruptible, where roles that are supposed to support each other and work together end up undermining one another. 
 

5) Over-reacting to every negative outcome as they occur instead of implementing structured processes meant to reduce said negative outcomes.
 

6) Over-reacting to positive outcomes that were more a matter of the league’s attempt at parity than any sound process properly implemented within the organization
 

7) Just being a general asshole and a stubborn, arrogant monster in most of his relationships with people

You may not be aware of it, but you just invoked Godwin's law to a T.  

[SoCalSkins]

9 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

Why can't someone simply ask Wilkinson at this point? "Did you/do you have a written version of your report or not?" 

 

Don't know why that would be a question she could not answer. 

 

Also, the Sports Junkies got SOMETHING that was apparently from someone at the Wilkinson firm, suggesting there WAS a report in some form. Unless they were totally had there, which I think is doubtful (but admittedly possible). 

 

There's really no way you do an investigation like this and DON'T have plenty in writing, though. I mean, when she was reporting "orally" to Don Goodell, I seriously doubt she was just talking off the top of her head.

 

The whole thing is just bizarre as hell. 

If she wants to lose her law license she can answer. 
 

Plus her office is likely the source of the leak to the junkies and she went rogue trying to introduce the $1.6M settlement into the public record in her dispute with the former Redskins general counsel. She’s done ever doing anything for the NFL ever again.

Edited November 7, 2021 by SoCalSkins

[Riggo#44]

7 hours ago, FrFan said:

The Congressional probe of the NFL over the WFT investigation is only just beginning

Bring on the subpoenas !

Oh, they're super duper serial people! 

[hail2skins]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

It’s the one criticism that is levied on Dan which is factually incorrect.  He’s still the worst owner in sports.  But the “running through coaches” thing is from 1999-2001, when he went through Norv (who needed to be fired years before he was), then Marty and to Spurrier in 3 years.  Since then, it just hasn’t been true.  

I actually separate the two decades of Snyders ownership. Regardless of what you think of Zorn, Snyder really only gave him a year and change before he was pursuing Shanny. It's true Spurrier resigned, but I think a third meh season would've likely been it for him. Heck, who knows what information Spurrier had that Snyder was pursuing Gibbs who, as you said, was unfireable.

 

The second decade has been more stable. I think Shanny in all actuality quit and giving Gruden 5+ years showed patience.

[Peregrine]

14 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Since 2001 when Dan fired Marty (Huge mistake), he has fired 3 coaches in 20 years: Zorn, Shanahan and Gruden.  
 

Spurrier resigned and Gibbs retired.  Dan would never have fired Gibbs.  He could still be here is he wanted to be. 
 

Zorn was a dumb ass hire to begin with and needed to be fired.  
 

Shanahan was a mistake.  But he chose the QB over coach. 
 

Gruden should never have been hired. But his brother was buddy buddy with Bruce.  He got 6 seasons.  Should have been fired after 3.  
 

It’s the one criticism that is levied on Dan which is factually incorrect.  He’s still the worst owner in sports.  But the “running through coaches” thing is from 1999-2001, when he went through Norv (who needed to be fired years before he was), then Marty and to Spurrier in 3 years.  Since then, it just hasn’t been true.  

.................Making things so miserable a coach quits after a couple of years is still part of "factually" running through coaches.  6 coaches in 19 years is horrific(6 of those being Gruden, so as of 2014 it was 6 in 14 years), as is any attempt to defend that.  The fact that you THINK that a coach every 3 years is actually a long time shows just how "running through coaches" Snyder has been over the years.  3 years seems like an eternity to you apparently, one where its okay for 4 of the 6 coaches to be fired, and a 5th quit.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Peregrine

[Spaceman Spiff]

Man, Jason Wright really has disappeared.  RT'd the touchdown throw from Heinicke to Carter and that's been it.

 

What a chump.

[NewCliche21]

11 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Man, Jason Wright really has disappeared.  RT'd the touchdown throw from Heinicke to Carter and that's been it.

 

What a chump.

 

I wonder if he wants out because we're ruining his name.

But I mean, don't sign up to be a firefighter if you can't take the slightest bit of heat.  This isn't new.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I wonder if he wants out because we're ruining his name.

But I mean, don't sign up to be a firefighter if you can't take the slightest bit of heat.  This isn't new.

 

Did he have a name before he got here?  I dunno.  

 

I agree though, don't sign up for a spot like that if you can't take the bad times.  And coming here, he had to know there were going to be plenty of opportunities for **** to hit the fan.

[NewCliche21]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Did he have a name before he got here?  I dunno.  

 

I agree though, don't sign up for a spot like that if you can't take the bad times.  And coming here, he had to know there were going to be plenty of opportunities for **** to hit the fan.

 

From what I understand, he was part of a premiere consulting firm, like really high up there.  He was described as savvy, great when consumer-facing, and able to make changes.

He was all of these things until it got the slightest bit uncomfortable.

[FrFan]

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32560474/nfl-misses-deadline-provide-documents-congress-washington-football-team-investigation

"Krishnamoorthi said, "We have to walk and chew gum at the same time. I know Congressman Comer well and I know he knows we're capable of juggling multiple priorities. I also earnestly hope he and everyone else cares as much about fighting sexual harassment as I do. There's intense public interest in this situation because the culture of sexual harassment was intense and pervasive and widespread and yet people are still asking the question: Why isn't the owner [Dan Snyder] being held accountable? Why was there no documenting of the finding of the investigation? Why are they still being held to the NDA?

"People have to be held accountable. That's incredibly important."

The committee is one of the most powerful in Congress. Staffers described it as having "broad powers" that enable it to investigate any industry or topic its members choose."

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

From what I understand, he was part of a premiere consulting firm, like really high up there.  He was described as savvy, great when consumer-facing, and able to make changes.

He was all of these things until it got the slightest bit uncomfortable.

 

I wonder if he ever consulted with Deez.  

[NewCliche21]

47 minutes ago, FrFan said:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32560474/nfl-misses-deadline-provide-documents-congress-washington-football-team-investigation

"Krishnamoorthi said, "We have to walk and chew gum at the same time. I know Congressman Comer well and I know he knows we're capable of juggling multiple priorities. I also earnestly hope he and everyone else cares as much about fighting sexual harassment as I do. There's intense public interest in this situation because the culture of sexual harassment was intense and pervasive and widespread and yet people are still asking the question: Why isn't the owner [Dan Snyder] being held accountable? Why was there no documenting of the finding of the investigation? Why are they still being held to the NDA?

"People have to be held accountable. That's incredibly important."

The committee is one of the most powerful in Congress. Staffers described it as having "broad powers" that enable it to investigate any industry or topic its members choose."

 

If true and they actually go through with it, I would be ecstatic.

[88Comrade2000]

The NFL will stall things until there's a change in who is running things and this will die.

[Darrell Green Fan]

If Congress subpoena Beth Wilkerson, who is a key player in all of this, I don't see how her license to practice law would be at risk. I look forward to everyone testifying, then seeing Roger try to explain his lies.  

[Busch1724]

41 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The NFL will stall things until there's a change in who is running things and this will die.

 

Or wait until people are worn out over it and forget about it. Sponsors need to start backing out. 

[FrFan]

1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

If true and they actually go through with it, I would be ecstatic.

Actually this is my only remaining hope to save this franchise from the Snyders once and for all. If Jon Gruden sues Goodell that would be a major blast, damn I'm hyperventilating !

[NewCliche21]

43 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The NFL will stall things until there's a change in who is running things and this will die.

 

January 2023?  And they can't stop people from testifying.