A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep and Keim said he wrote an article years back about how the team seems to be losing fans and he said Bruce called him in the office to ream him out, saying its not true.

 

They've had their head in the sand and oddly didn't see this coming.

 

Sheehan speculated that Dan-Bruce over the years suspected any frustration with them wasn't personal, it was purely they were frustrated by the team's performance and thereby would take it out on whomever was at the top. 

Arrogance mixed with self unawareness is a really, really bad combination.

 

Here's the problem I see, and this is a really bleak picture:

 

- EVERY player of any repute knows the fan base has eroded, the stadium is half full, and of that half full, 2/3 of it are fans of the other team.

- EVERY player knows of the turmoil in the organization, the sexual harassment issues, all that jazz.

- Every Coach knows the history, and knows that no coach, including effing Joe Gibbs, has managed to +.500 record here since Dan bought the team.

- Every GM candidate knows Dan interferes, and actually makes picks and dictates things.

 

The foundation is just so unbelievably rotten at this point, attracting any quality coaches/players is going to be an uphill battle.   

 

This is one reason why I don't think Ron is in any jeopardy this year or next year.  He's going to get a full 4 years almost no matter what.  

 

What QB will willingly want to come here?  The answer: almost none unless you get a second tier guy and pay them 1st tier money.  See: Smith, Alex. 

 

Otherwise, who?  If they fire Ron, as @Skinsinparadise has said over and over, who the hell is going to want to come here?  They will find somebody who's probably not very qualified, and maybe they get lucky.  Probably not. 

 

GM candidates.  Name me a top-line GM candidate who's going to come here KNOWING that Dan picked Haskins over the objection of everybody in the room.  Just 3 years ago?  You can get somebody, but none of the top guys would touch this place.  

 

So what the team needs to do is change the narrative.  But honestly, I think they're too ****ing stupid to figure out how to do it. The way you change the narrative is basically in 2 steps: 1. Address all the sins of the past, and get them all behind you, whatever the cost. and 2. Make the future exciting and appealing as quickly as possible.  If I was advising them, this is what I would advise them to do:

 

1.  Dan should volunteer to go in front of Congress.  With absolutely no stipulations on questions which can be asked.  It's an "ask me anything" situation, minus violating any privacy issues.  Spill his guts, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.  Here's something I learned a long time ago: When you're wrong, once you admit you're wrong, you're going to take a beating for it, but then it's over.  If you keep trying to defend yourself, all you're doing it prolonging the beating.  Just admit it, take the beating, and move on.  

 

2. Settle with all of the women in the suit.  That's not "paying them off."  Legitimately settle the law suit, which happens all the time.  Come to a financial agreement, and move on with life.  I wouldn't even ask for an NDA or anything.  Let anybody say anything they want.  Then have a joint press conference with whoever and say, "Look, we were wrong, we had a toxic culture, we know we can't possibly change the past, or make things right, but we're going to do the only thing we can do by settling the lawsuit, promising to be better, and being fully transparent."  

 

3.  Fire her High Empress Tonya Snyder.  That's a sham.  Everybody knows it.  Just have her go back to being her, she's not good at trying to be Dan, so just end that farce.  

 

4. Take complete, total and full responsibility for the total mishandling of the Sean Taylor number retirement, and say they are going to have a Sean Taylor Celebration day next year at a game to be announced as soon as the NFL schedule is released.  Just say "we blew it.  We're going to do it again.  We're sorry."  

 

5. Dan has to honest to God stay out of the football people's way. And he needs to be public about it.  He needs to speak.  At least monthly, in a comfortable setting for him, and keep reiterating the message that he is no longer going to make any football decisions, they have good people in the building, and he's trusting them to do their jobs, and staying out of their way.   Will people believe it?  No.  But you have to do it anyway.

 

6. Jason Wright needs to go back to being visible.  He's taken his lumps for the Sean Taylor debacle.  He can't hide, they can't fire him, because the replacement would currently be crap.  So, they have to make it work.  He's just got to man-up, and become visible again.  

 

7.  They need to change the narrative on the football side.  It's been between "meh" and atrocious for so long, they just need to completely change the paradigm.  The only way you're doing that is by getting a top  5 QB RIGHT NOW.  So, going into the off-season, I think you target either Russ or Rodgers.  I would not touch Watson, it doesn't go with the points above.

 

And I would over-pay.  I would over-pay in every way.  I wouldn't care.  I would basically ask Seattle or Green Bay what they wanted, and give it to them.  Then I'd go to Russ or Aaron and literally hand them a blank check.  Have them write down a number with as many 0's as they want.  Money can't by me love.  But it probably can buy me a starting QB.  

 

Then you have to trust Ron not to blow it on the coaching side.  Which I have some faith he would not do.  

 

(The easier answer would be for Dan to sell.  Which would be great, but it is not going to happen.  So the best you can do is start to dig out of the hole. )

 

The end.  

[86 Snyder]

^^^Evergreen post since 1999^^^

[Wildbunny]

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Arrogance mixed with self unawareness is a really, really bad combination.

 

Here's the problem I see, and this is a really bleak picture:

 

- EVERY player of any repute knows the fan base has eroded, the stadium is half full, and of that half full, 2/3 of it are fans of the other team.

- EVERY player knows of the turmoil in the organization, the sexual harassment issues, all that jazz.

- Every Coach knows the history, and knows that no coach, including effing Joe Gibbs, has managed to +.500 record here since Dan bought the team.

- Every GM candidate knows Dan interferes, and actually makes picks and dictates things.

 

The foundation is just so unbelievably rotten at this point, attracting any quality coaches/players is going to be an uphill battle.   

 

This is one reason why I don't think Ron is in any jeopardy this year or next year.  He's going to get a full 4 years almost no matter what.  

Just quoiting this part, but I wholeheartedly agree on almost everything you pointed out.

 

Though, I think it's not that a given that Ron gets his 4 years no matter what.

The reason laying in your first sentence "arrogance mixed with self unawareness". Dan simply don't get the fact that if he fires Ron, he'll have trouble finding anyone better than Jim Zorn this time around.

 

I'm slowly reaching the to the conclusion that Jay's tenure around here is something of an outlier in Dan's history. And that's probably because of Bruce. For all his flaws, Bruce playing putt-putt with Dan more than likely allowed him to sell almost everything he wanted to Dan.

 

Now there's no Bruce around, and Ron doesn't look like the type of guy that would lie to Dan to keep is job.

If we don't land a top notch QB next year, probability is quite high that we're gonna see the same kind of product, and results, on the field. Ron would then not survive that much by Dan's standards.

 

To me it's more or less a coin flip if Ron gets his 4 years as a HC here than anything else, Dan can go rampage at any time.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Wildbunny

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, Dissident2 said:

The investigation was going to happen based on all the people who came forward and all the stories and accusations. I don’t think those are connected at all to the name change. You had 40+ women coming forward, cheerleader scandals, nude videos secretly made, etc. That’s what sparked the investigation. Would’ve happened whether Danya bought out the other guys or not. 

I disagree. You had Bruce passing info to Schar who was leaking it to the media and the broker trying to sell their stake. That caused Snyder to launch an investigation to preempt the NFL. Dan is the one who originally hired Wilkerson. Then the NFL took over after the heat in the media due to the additional leaks grew. If Snyder had bought out Schar and Fred Smith earlier or paid their dividend instead of withholding it due to the pandemic excuse, none of this would have happened. 
 

Edited November 11, 2021 by SoCalSkins

[Dissident2]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

I disagree. You had Bruce passing info to Schar who was leaking it to the media and the broker trying to sell their stake. That caused Snyder to launch an investigation to preempt the NFL. Dan is the one who originally hired Wilkerson. Then the NFL took over after the heat in the media due to the additional leaks grew. If Snyder had bought out Schar and Fred Smith earlier or paid their dividend instead of withholding it due to the pandemic excuse, none of this would have happened. 
 

 

Snyder didn't launch anything out of his own free will, and that initial investigation was to study the culture of the team, not the things those Bruce leaks were accusing him of. Wilkinson was "recommended" to him by the NFL, the same way they "recommended" Brian Lafemina before that.

 

What Bruce allegedly leaked was totally separate from the many other (accurate) stories that came out before that and after. That Epstein stuff and bribing refs or whatever was suspect from the start and got minimal traction beyond a few days of pre-hype on podcasts and other mediums when people thought that was what the second big Washington Post story was about to report. 

 

Wilkinson was brought on after a mid-July Post story about the team's toxic culture, at which point the team was conducting its own "internal investigation." Then another story came out in August, the one that detailed the cheerleader videos made for Snyder among other things, and THAT was when the NFL took over the investigation. 

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/nfl-taking-over-investigation-of-washington-football-team?__twitter_impression=true

 

That investigation was the result of the legit sexual abuse stories and especially that second bombshell that included the videos. After that, there was huge outcry at the ridiculousness of Snyder conducting his own investigation into a pattern of sexual misconduct that he was named in (that story also broke the news about him asking a cheerleader to go up to the hotel room of his friend so they could "get to know each other" better), and the NFL tried to save face by saying that Wilkinson would now be reporting directly to Goodell. 

 

As we all know, that "reporting" consisted of one phone call after the investigation was finally complete. 

 

I just don't think the other owner stuff had any real significant impact on what prompted the investigation. If anything, those idiotic Bruce leaks benefitted Snyder, because when they were quickly shown to be baseless, it also lessened the effect of the REAL stories that were coming out at the same time. Snyder's own personal lawsuit against Bruce and the people he thought leaked the other stuff was a totally separate entity. 

 

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Arrogance mixed with self unawareness is a really, really bad combination.

 

Here's the problem I see, and this is a really bleak picture:

 

- EVERY player of any repute knows the fan base has eroded, the stadium is half full, and of that half full, 2/3 of it are fans of the other team.

- EVERY player knows of the turmoil in the organization, the sexual harassment issues, all that jazz.

- Every Coach knows the history, and knows that no coach, including effing Joe Gibbs, has managed to +.500 record here since Dan bought the team.

- Every GM candidate knows Dan interferes, and actually makes picks and dictates things.

 

The foundation is just so unbelievably rotten at this point, attracting any quality coaches/players is going to be an uphill battle.   

 

This is one reason why I don't think Ron is in any jeopardy this year or next year.  He's going to get a full 4 years almost no matter what.  

 

What QB will willingly want to come here?  The answer: almost none unless you get a second tier guy and pay them 1st tier money.  See: Smith, Alex. 

 

Otherwise, who?  If they fire Ron, as @Skinsinparadise has said over and over, who the hell is going to want to come here?  They will find somebody who's probably not very qualified, and maybe they get lucky.  Probably not. 

 

GM candidates.  Name me a top-line GM candidate who's going to come here KNOWING that Dan picked Haskins over the objection of everybody in the room.  Just 3 years ago?  You can get somebody, but none of the top guys would touch this place.  

 

So what the team needs to do is change the narrative.  But honestly, I think they're too ****ing stupid to figure out how to do it. The way you change the narrative is basically in 2 steps: 1. Address all the sins of the past, and get them all behind you, whatever the cost. and 2. Make the future exciting and appealing as quickly as possible.  If I was advising them, this is what I would advise them to do:

 

1.  Dan should volunteer to go in front of Congress.  With absolutely no stipulations on questions which can be asked.  It's an "ask me anything" situation, minus violating any privacy issues.  Spill his guts, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.  Here's something I learned a long time ago: When you're wrong, once you admit you're wrong, you're going to take a beating for it, but then it's over.  If you keep trying to defend yourself, all you're doing it prolonging the beating.  Just admit it, take the beating, and move on.  

 

2. Settle with all of the women in the suit.  That's not "paying them off."  Legitimately settle the law suit, which happens all the time.  Come to a financial agreement, and move on with life.  I wouldn't even ask for an NDA or anything.  Let anybody say anything they want.  Then have a joint press conference with whoever and say, "Look, we were wrong, we had a toxic culture, we know we can't possibly change the past, or make things right, but we're going to do the only thing we can do by settling the lawsuit, promising to be better, and being fully transparent."  

 

3.  Fire her High Empress Tonya Snyder.  That's a sham.  Everybody knows it.  Just have her go back to being her, she's not good at trying to be Dan, so just end that farce.  

 

4. Take complete, total and full responsibility for the total mishandling of the Sean Taylor number retirement, and say they are going to have a Sean Taylor Celebration day next year at a game to be announced as soon as the NFL schedule is released.  Just say "we blew it.  We're going to do it again.  We're sorry."  

 

5. Dan has to honest to God stay out of the football people's way. And he needs to be public about it.  He needs to speak.  At least monthly, in a comfortable setting for him, and keep reiterating the message that he is no longer going to make any football decisions, they have good people in the building, and he's trusting them to do their jobs, and staying out of their way.   Will people believe it?  No.  But you have to do it anyway.

 

6. Jason Wright needs to go back to being visible.  He's taken his lumps for the Sean Taylor debacle.  He can't hide, they can't fire him, because the replacement would currently be crap.  So, they have to make it work.  He's just got to man-up, and become visible again.  

 

7.  They need to change the narrative on the football side.  It's been between "meh" and atrocious for so long, they just need to completely change the paradigm.  The only way you're doing that is by getting a top  5 QB RIGHT NOW.  So, going into the off-season, I think you target either Russ or Rodgers.  I would not touch Watson, it doesn't go with the points above.

 

And I would over-pay.  I would over-pay in every way.  I wouldn't care.  I would basically ask Seattle or Green Bay what they wanted, and give it to them.  Then I'd go to Russ or Aaron and literally hand them a blank check.  Have them write down a number with as many 0's as they want.  Money can't by me love.  But it probably can buy me a starting QB.  

 

Then you have to trust Ron not to blow it on the coaching side.  Which I have some faith he would not do.  

 

(The easier answer would be for Dan to sell.  Which would be great, but it is not going to happen.  So the best you can do is start to dig out of the hole. )

 

The end.  

It’s not in Dan nature to admit wrong and he will never do what you suggest.

 

Russ and Aaron will not follow the money to come here. Tree are plenty of better options for them.

[SoCalSkins]

2 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

Snyder didn't launch anything out of his own free will, and that initial investigation was to study the culture of the team, not the things those Bruce leaks were accusing him of. Wilkinson was "recommended" to him by the NFL, the same way they "recommended" Brian Lafemina before that.

 

What Bruce allegedly leaked was totally separate from the many other (accurate) stories that came out before that and after. That Epstein stuff and bribing refs or whatever was suspect from the start and got minimal traction beyond a few days of pre-hype on podcasts and other mediums when people thought that was what the second big Washington Post story was about to report. 

 

Wilkinson was brought on after a mid-July Post story about the team's toxic culture, at which point the team was conducting its own "internal investigation." Then another story came out in August, the one that detailed the cheerleader videos made for Snyder among other things, and THAT was when the NFL took over the investigation. 

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/nfl-taking-over-investigation-of-washington-football-team?__twitter_impression=true

 

That investigation was the result of the legit sexual abuse stories and especially that second bombshell that included the videos. After that, there was huge outcry at the ridiculousness of Snyder conducting his own investigation into a pattern of sexual misconduct that he was named in (that story also broke the news about him asking a cheerleader to go up to the hotel room of his friend so they could "get to know each other" better), and the NFL tried to save face by saying that Wilkinson would now be reporting directly to Goodell. 

 

As we all know, that "reporting" consisted of one phone call after the investigation was finally complete. 

 

I just don't think the other owner stuff had any real significant impact on what prompted the investigation. If anything, those idiotic Bruce leaks benefitted Snyder, because when they were quickly shown to be baseless, it also lessened the effect of the REAL stories that were coming out at the same time. Snyder's own personal lawsuit against Bruce and the people he thought leaked the other stuff was a totally separate entity. 

 

 

 

 

The NFL is not interested in punishing owners. The results prove that. They will only do so under pressure which the Schar leaks provided. This blew up when the stories about versions of the tapes showing the cheerleaders nude from the calendar shoot came out which were part of the Schar leaks. Regardless, it’s a hypothetical that can’t be proven and Dan isn’t going anywhere. Dude lucks out repeatedly without any actual savvy.

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

To me it's more or less a coin flip if Ron gets his 4 years as a HC here than anything else, Dan can go rampage at any time

It’s true.  
 

Shanny also went big fir a QB in year 3 and got 4 years.  
 

So we’ll see.

[SonnySideUp]

13 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

No JKC’s will did not anticipate the value of the team being so high. The executor of the estate had a fiduciary duty to get the highest price even though JKC’s intent was to leave it to his son.   The will was not well designed. The executor also did not allow much spending so we lost Trent Green to free agency then as well.  The highest bid came in from a group led by Milstein with Snyder as a minority partner. The NFL rejected Milstein and asked Dan to form his own lead bid and that was accepted and misery has followed ever since. 
 

 

It's really too bad the group including Joe Gibbs didn't manage to end up with the team. For anyone interested in the history of the whole wretched mess:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/24/how-daniel-snyder-bought-redskins-years-ago/

>>‘Bethesda man to make bid for Redskins’: How Daniel Snyder became an NFL owner<<

 

 

[FrFan]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Otherwise, who?  If they fire Ron, as @Skinsinparadise has said over and over, who the hell is going to want to come here?  They will find somebody who's probably not very qualified, and maybe they get lucky.  Probably not.

6. Jason Wright needs to go back to being visible.  He's taken his lumps for the Sean Taylor debacle.  He can't hide, they can't fire him, because the replacement would currently be crap.  So, they have to make it work.  He's just got to man-up, and become visible again. 

That's the problem, he will likely find someone starving for a HC position, or an incompetent suffering like him from Duening-Kruger. I wish toxic Dan would repel all of them no matter the position offered and the $$$ (I know I'm dreaming here). I believe without morals chaos prevails, and that's what is still going on here.

The guy use people as promo tools, he disrespects women, he's not accountable, has no balls to show up in front of the medias and will send his favorite pet to deflect the heat from him, etc...

That's why I don't have much respect for the HCs who are willing to work for this evil person. A leopard can't change its spots and for the last 20+ years toxic Dan hasn't, and won't. I wish they would at the very least just stop their cheap talk about changing little danny boy and his ways.

6 To me Jason Wright is nothing but a yes man.

My only remaining little hope is that the Congress will put him down for good.

Edited November 12, 2021 by FrFan

[Dissident2]

9 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

The NFL is not interested in punishing owners. The results prove that. They will only do so under pressure which the Schar leaks provided. This blew up when the stories about versions of the tapes showing the cheerleaders nude from the calendar shoot came out which were part of the Schar leaks. Regardless, it’s a hypothetical that can’t be proven and Dan isn’t going anywhere. Dude lucks out repeatedly without any actual savvy.

The cheerleader videos were not part of the Schar leaks. Those were revealed by the Post who got that info from ex employees, including one that put his name on the allegations in the story. The employees came forward on principle. Bruce was probably part of the inner circle who watched those things. 
 

I don’t see Snyder as being lucky really, more like the NFL being corrupt. I guess he’s “lucky” in that regard. He’s also lucky that Norv didn’t take the golden opportunity he had in my avatar to put his mits around the tiny emperor’s larynx. I’m sure he wanted to. Just look at his face. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Arrogance mixed with self unawareness is a really, really bad combination.

 

Here's the problem I see, and this is a really bleak picture:

 

- EVERY player of any repute knows the fan base has eroded, the stadium is half full, and of that half full, 2/3 of it are fans of the other team.

- EVERY player knows of the turmoil in the organization, the sexual harassment issues, all that jazz.

- Every Coach knows the history, and knows that no coach, including effing Joe Gibbs, has managed to +.500 record here since Dan bought the team.

- Every GM candidate knows Dan interferes, and actually makes picks and dictates things.

 

The foundation is just so unbelievably rotten at this point, attracting any quality coaches/players is going to be an uphill battle.   

 

This is one reason why I don't think Ron is in any jeopardy this year or next year.  He's going to get a full 4 years almost no matter what.  

 

What QB will willingly want to come here?  The answer: almost none unless you get a second tier guy and pay them 1st tier money.  See: Smith, Alex. 

 

Otherwise, who?  If they fire Ron, as @Skinsinparadise has said over and over, who the hell is going to want to come here?  They will find somebody who's probably not very qualified, and maybe they get lucky.  Probably not. 

 

 

I agree with most of what you said in that post.   My only disagreement is I think it would be a train wreck for Dan to go in front of Congress at least it would for him.  but I don't feel like getting that deep into the weeds on that.  In short, the angle would be to embarrass him and he doesn't come off quick on his feet so the result would likely be disastrous for him.  But as a fan, I'd love to see it play out that way. 

 

But otherwise he needs to do a full mea culpa.  Not the BS versions from the past which were variations if I was once stupid but now i am really really smart about football or hey its not my fault, it's Vinny, it's Shanny, now its Bruce. 

 

Judging by how he's defended himself and general leaks, it feels like Dan genuinely believes that Bruce helped destroyed this franchise and dug this hole.    It's interesting for me to have that narrative out there because I for years have made that point on the FO thread.  Bruce was the perfect storm IMO to bury Dan.   He came off like a smug politician who was over his head yet he was condescending and arrogant.  And the organization came off sleazy, too.  All the crapping on people and scapegoating.  At the same time they were cheap and always seemed a step behind the curve.  

 

I think the kicker of how Bruce contributed to the demise is this.  This league is about star power.   Vinny and Dan working together at least understood how to make a splash.  Yeah they were incompetent doing it but they understood the power of pizzazz.  They were dumb but not boring.  Under Bruce, they were dumb and boring and unlikable.  That i thought was fatal. 

 

Yet with all of that.  That's not on Bruce. It's on Dan.  Bruce was the perfect symptom of the Dan disease.  He could last as long as he did because he was Dan's kind of guy.  He fit Dan's culture.  And for all the faults that I outlined with Bruce over the years it doesn't compare (not even close) to Dan.    And I find it amusing that Dan seems to think that if he could put this on Bruce, fans will forgive him.   I was one of the biggest Bruce critics here.  But Bruce didn't hire himself.  Bruce did what he could to thrive under the culture that Dan set.  And Dan's has had issues no matter who is working under him. 

 

My point with all of this is if Dan could for once just be real and get over living in a fog, i think he'd get a little more love from the media.   Granted just a little.  The media has killed him and rightfully so.  If I were advising him, I'd tell him this.

 

A.  Stop with the scapegoating.  You can make villains of your hires but you will remain the top villain until the ship is righted.  Take responsibility for everything.  Dan likes to do these phony mea culpas where he more or less said its not his fault but he will take the hit anyway and then level who he thinks is at fault.   And like his favorite current scapegoat Bruce -- his rap is patronizing to his audience.     We aren't stupid.  So the perception of a lot of fans is either Dan/dan's people are being patronizing or he himself is so stupid that he thinks he can get away with this crap.  Say look I hire these people, I set the culture, its on me.   

 

The strange thing about Dan and his few straggler defenders here and on twitter over the years (granted i've not seen any on this board since the sexual harassment suits) is they rally around how his hires are at fault as if his hires are somehow removed from Dan.  For starters, I don't believe that Dan's main problem have been his hires albeit some of them were clearly bad.  Dan's main problem is Dan.  But even if I believed that Dan was at the mercy of the fallout from bad hires -- he's the dude hiring these people.  If he is that bad at hiring the right people that alone would make him a bad owner, too. 

 

B.  Be open with the fans.  He needs to say this is where I screwed up.  This is how I am trying to do it better.  Some have said in the past partly in defense of Dan that he doesn't have to explain himself.   This isn't a public company and Dan can do whatever pleases him.  That's true.  But if he wants to get some customers back, he needs to explain what he's doing differently and why.    If a company, even a private one, implodes with their customer base, if they want to rebound they don't just say hey screw the customers we can do whatever we want and they can take it or leave it. 

 

From a pure PR standpoint the irony about Vinny, Bruce and Dan as for their reputations is they look and come off 100% just like how they are described. All three of them are really defiant about how the media defines them and get real prickly about it.   Yet, what they miss among other things is how they talk, how they defend themselves, their reputation based on what others have said about them, their demeanor on and on -- 100% reflect the same image they complained that they are falsely given.

 

With or without the media, Vinny comes off like a bumbling fool in his interviews.  He comes off oddly defiant and out of touch -- just like his reputation, it fits like a glove.  Bruce Allen comes off every bit as his image. The smug patronizing yet incompetent politician.  It oozes out of him.  Dan comes off every bit as this high strung, smug-jerk, jock sniffer, social misfit, who is out of touch and incompetent.  I find it amusing how outraged they are about how the media protrays them when they come off every ounce of their image.  Heck you could just stare at a photo of Vinny, Bruce or Dan and they give off that vibe. 

 

The only reason why Vinny and Bruce are relevant is I think its hilarious that Dan tries to hide from the public yet puts out spokespeople who are walking cartoons for why the organizations stinks.  I know the intent is serious but it comes off as sad comedy.  I know some here don't care for Jason Wright but at least in my book he's a stark improvement as to putting a better face-public image out there when speaking for the team. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[SoCalSkins]

The fact that this is being announced without a peep out of Jason Wright shows he is done in Washington:

 

 

[Dissident2]

49 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

The fact that this is being announced without a peep out of Jason Wright shows he is done in Washington:

 

 

 

 

Sinking millions more into that dump? I wonder if that says anything about new stadium hopes. And yeah, strange indeed that Wright hasn't delivered this news first. 

[method man]

Gruden suing the NFL! Let the fireworks begin...hopefully Gruden doesn't settle with the league and takes this to court

[Andre The Giant]

54 minutes ago, method man said:

Gruden suing the NFL! Let the fireworks begin...hopefully Gruden doesn't settle with the league and takes this to court

 

 

[Wildbunny]

Mike Florio has a nice piece about this one:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/11/12/nfl-calls-jon-gruden-allegations-are-entirely-meritless-vows-to-vigorously-defend-against-the-lawsuit/

 

If the NFL intends to fight vigorously, that might backfires like hell as it may result in Justice ordering them to produce the 650k emails and everything related to the WFT investigation.

 

And I don't think Jon Gruden wants to settle on anything. He's more the type of guy that want to "settle the score" like Breer tweeted more than anything else.

That's typically the type of guy you don't want to face in a court.

 

Where are my popcorns?

2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

The fact that this is being announced without a peep out of Jason Wright shows he is done in Washington:

 

 

So they do announce that on the day Gruden is suing the NFL and Goodell regarding those WFT emails stuff?

 

Counterfire anyone?

[profusion]

8 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So they do announce that on the day Gruden is suing the NFL and Goodell regarding those WFT emails stuff?

 

 

There are no coincidences in Ashburn.

 

As for the suit, perhaps the NFL is so confident about it because they know that it was Snyder and his cronies who leaked the emails, not the league office.

Edited November 12, 2021 by profusion

[Dissident2]

Is it actually possible that the name "Gruden" will one day go down in organizational lore as being the straw that finally broke the Danya's back and set us free?

[method man]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Mike Florio has a nice piece about this one:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/11/12/nfl-calls-jon-gruden-allegations-are-entirely-meritless-vows-to-vigorously-defend-against-the-lawsuit/

 

If the NFL intends to fight vigorously, that might backfires like hell as it may result in Justice ordering them to produce the 650k emails and everything related to the WFT investigation.

 

And I don't think Jon Gruden wants to settle on anything. He's more the type of guy that want to "settle the score" like Breer tweeted more than anything else.

That's typically the type of guy you don't want to face in a court.

 

Where are my popcorns?

So they do announce that on the day Gruden is suing the NFL and Goodell regarding those WFT emails stuff?

 

Counterfire anyone?

 

Mark Davis and Jon Gruden are still tight and Mark Davis is obviously pissed about all of this. It wouldn't surprise me if Mark Davis is secretly funding this lawsuit and supporting Gruden by giving him the necessary color.

[Andre The Giant]

Here's the link to the complaint, courtesy of PFT:

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/sites/nbcsports.com/files/jg_complaint_-_final_11-11-21_-_version_2_3.pdf

 

It references the WFT investigation extensively.  I'm not an attorney, but as a layman, I thought this section was of particular interest:

 

"13. There may be other persons or entities, whether individuals, corporations, associations, or otherwise, who are or may be legally responsible for the acts, omissions,  circumstances, happenings, and/or damages or other relief requested by this Complaint. The true names and capacities of DOES 1 through 10 and ROE Entities 11 through 20 are unknown to Plaintiff, who sues those defendants by such fictitious names. Plaintiff will seek leave of this Court to amend this Complaint to insert the proper names of the defendants when such names and capacities become known to Plaintiff."

 

[FrFan]

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by FrFan

[Andre The Giant]

Florio is on it:

 

“It makes sense for Gruden to aggressively pursue how it happened.  Even though he got what he deserves for the sentiments expressed in the emails, that doesn’t give the NFL a license to selectively weaponize a few of the pages while concealing the rest of them.

 

That’s what bothers plenty of people.  Gruden, who wasn’t even employed by any NFL team, became the only person to be held accountable for the 10-month investigation into years of misconduct at the Washington Football Team.  If nothing else, Gruden’s lawsuit quite possibly will expose plenty of things that the league would prefer to keep secret.”

[Spaceman Spiff]

19 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

The fact that this is being announced without a peep out of Jason Wright shows he is done in Washington:

 

 

 

Jason Wright is toast.  I can't believe how quickly that fraud has come and gone.  I had hopes for that guy, I thought he could go a long way in helping get this franchise back on track but no chance of that now.  He's totally vanished.  

 

Two things:

 

Either he got reamed out by Snyder for bungling the Sean Taylor jersey retirement debacle and got banished from Ashburn...and they'll wait to make an announcement that he's been fired after the season.  Why they'd wait to do that, I'm not sure.

 

or

 

He's just a massive chicken**** and is really hiding.  He got shredded on twitter and rightfully so.  His apology was pathetic.

 

Maybe it's a combination of the two.  But I can't see how that guy is in the organization by this time, next year.

 

17 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

 

It's awkward rooting for Jon Gruden, I have to admit.  After all that stuff he wrote, it's really, really hard to root for that guy.

 

Maybe I'm really not rooting for him...maybe I'm just rooting against the NFL, and I think that's the more likely scenario as I sit here and think about this.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc.  And while I don't hate the NFL per se, I hate a lot about what the NFL does, most of which is pretending that they care about social issues and then doing a piss poor pathetic job in actually carrying that out.  Goodell and the owners are constantly seem to be in a state of ass covering which doesn't make me feel good about being a football fan in general.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again here.  Make no mistake, if the NFL was left to it's druthers it would be some version of Vince McMahon's XFL iterations.  Everything they do that appears to be good because they're kowtowing to social pressure.

 

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with most of what you said in that post.   My only disagreement is I think it would be a train wreck for Dan to go in front of Congress at least it would for him.  but I don't feel like getting that deep into the weeds on that.  In short, the angle would be to embarrass him and he doesn't come off quick on his feet so the result would likely be disastrous for him.  But as a fan, I'd love to see it play out that way. 

 

But otherwise he needs to do a full mea culpa.  Not the BS versions from the past which were variations if I was once stupid but now i am really really smart about football or hey its not my fault, it's Vinny, it's Shanny, now its Bruce. 

 

Judging by how he's defended himself and general leaks, it feels like Dan genuinely believes that Bruce helped destroyed this franchise and dug this hole.    It's interesting for me to have that narrative out there because I for years have made that point on the FO thread.  Bruce was the perfect storm IMO to bury Dan.   He came off like a smug politician who was over his head yet he was condescending and arrogant.  And the organization came off sleazy, too.  All the crapping on people and scapegoating.  At the same time they were cheap and always seemed a step behind the curve.  

 

I think the kicker of how Bruce contributed to the demise is this.  This league is about star power.   Vinny and Dan working together at least understood how to make a splash.  Yeah they were incompetent doing it but they understood the power of pizzazz.  They were dumb but not boring.  Under Bruce, they were dumb and boring and unlikable.  That i thought was fatal. 

 

Yet with all of that.  That's not on Bruce. It's on Dan.  Bruce was the perfect symptom of the Dan disease.  He could last as long as he did because he was Dan's kind of guy.  He fit Dan's culture.  And for all the faults that I outlined with Bruce over the years it doesn't compare (not even close) to Dan.    And I find it amusing that Dan seems to think that if he could put this on Bruce, fans will forgive him.   I was one of the biggest Bruce critics here.  But Bruce didn't hire himself.  Bruce did what he could to thrive under the culture that Dan set.  And Dan's has had issues no matter who is working under him. 

 

My point with all of this is if Dan could for once just be real and get over living in a fog, i think he'd get a little more love from the media.   Granted just a little.  The media has killed him and rightfully so.  If I were advising him, I'd tell him this.

 

A.  Stop with the scapegoating.  You can make villains of your hires but you will remain the top villain until the ship is righted.  Take responsibility for everything.  Dan likes to do these phony mea culpas where he more or less said its not his fault but he will take the hit anyway and then level who he thinks is at fault.   And like his favorite current scapegoat Bruce -- his rap is patronizing to his audience.     We aren't stupid.  So the perception of a lot of fans is either Dan/dan's people are being patronizing or he himself is so stupid that he thinks he can get away with this crap.  Say look I hire these people, I set the culture, its on me.   

 

The strange thing about Dan and his few straggler defenders here and on twitter over the years (granted i've not seen any on this board since the sexual harassment suits) is they rally around how his hires are at fault as if his hires are somehow removed from Dan.  For starters, I don't believe that Dan's main problem have been his hires albeit some of them were clearly bad.  Dan's main problem is Dan.  But even if I believed that Dan was at the mercy of the fallout from bad hires -- he's the dude hiring these people.  If he is that bad at hiring the right people that alone would make him a bad owner, too. 

 

B.  Be open with the fans.  He needs to say this is where I screwed up.  This is how I am trying to do it better.  Some have said in the past partly in defense of Dan that he doesn't have to explain himself.   This isn't a public company and Dan can do whatever pleases him.  That's true.  But if he wants to get some customers back, he needs to explain what he's doing differently and why.    If a company, even a private one, implodes with their customer base, if they want to rebound they don't just say hey screw the customers we can do whatever we want and they can take it or leave it. 

 

From a pure PR standpoint the irony about Vinny, Bruce and Dan as for their reputations is they look and come off 100% just like how they are described. All three of them are really defiant about how the media defines them and get real prickly about it.   Yet, what they miss among other things is how they talk, how they defend themselves, their reputation based on what others have said about them, their demeanor on and on -- 100% reflect the same image they complained that they are falsely given.

 

With or without the media, Vinny comes off like a bumbling fool in his interviews.  He comes off oddly defiant and out of touch -- just like his reputation, it fits like a glove.  Bruce Allen comes off every bit as his image. The smug patronizing yet incompetent politician.  It oozes out of him.  Dan comes off every bit as this high strung, smug-jerk, jock sniffer, social misfit, who is out of touch and incompetent.  I find it amusing how outraged they are about how the media protrays them when they come off every ounce of their image.  Heck you could just stare at a photo of Vinny, Bruce or Dan and they give off that vibe. 

 

The only reason why Vinny and Bruce are relevant is I think its hilarious that Dan tries to hide from the public yet puts out spokespeople who are walking cartoons for why the organizations stinks.  I know the intent is serious but it comes off as sad comedy.  I know some here don't care for Jason Wright but at least in my book he's a stark improvement as to putting a better face-public image out there when speaking for the team. 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of this.  But Dan has dug himself a hole so deep, it would take forever for him to climb out of it.  

 

I mean, I want us to win a Super Bowl eventually but the thought of seeing him hoist the Lombardi would take some of the luster off it, quite frankly.  IMO, it would mean to him that everything he did to get there was validated and it was the right move.  I think that's what his headspace would be and that sucks.

[Spaceman Spiff]

 

Also, I'm afraid that the focus is now on Gruden vs the NFL (which is understandable) and not on the WFT and Dan Snyder.

 

I had hopes that this would be the thing that would get Snyder kicked out.  That was a small hope, but it was still a bit of hope.  Now as the attention turns to Gruden and his lawsuit, I think the focus isn't so much on the WFT and Snyder's culpability in running a **** organization.

 

Someone's gotta leak those emails, it absolutely has to happen.  Even then, if it's true about Snyder not having an email address, then it becomes increasingly difficult to really pin anything on him, other than having hired and employed ****ty people.