BudLighticke

I totally agree with this, there is so much that goes into it. And just like QBs that fail in the wrong environments, coaches can too. We’ve seen a lot of that around here in fact. But I don’t think that means that coaching is overrated, I think a well coached team has a large advantage over a poorly coached team, which is how I would measure the value of a coach. Can they put their team in good positions to win? Do they know the right buttons to push? Can you keep the team together during rough patches and come out stronger on the other side? There’s so much that goes into being a good coach in this league.

As far as I can tell, no one is acting like it’s significant. It’s just not true, Snyder doesn’t cycle through coaches. That’s the only thing I’ve seen been said.

I guess that would mean you believe that franchise QBs aren’t dependent on their surroundings and the coaching staff that they work with? That they will succeed and become franchise QBs regardless of whether or not some average coach is the ones talking in their ear every play? Josh Allen isn’t Josh Allen without Sean McDermott and that coaching staff bringing him along and supporting him the entire way. Surrounding him with weapons, and nurturing him along the way. I don’t think Mahomes is Mahomes without Reid. Lamar isn’t Lamar if Harbaugh didn’t change his entire offense to cater to the strengths of his new QB. On the reverse, maybe Darnold and Trubisky could have really become franchise QBs without Gase and Nagy as their coaches? Who knows. But certainly plausible. I just don’t at all agree that it’s franchise QB or bust, and that everything else is overrated in comparison. There are many many reasons coaches haven’t been successful here, not having a franchise QB is just one of them. When you refer to something as overrated, it comes off that you are saying the importance of it is over valued. I just can’t agree with that.

Coaching at the pro level is not overrated. At all in my opinion. Getting a bunch of grown men making millions of dollars with access to things we could only dream of, and in some cases the guys they are coaching are older and more established in their careers, to play the ultimate team game is no easy feat. Coaching at the pro level is extremely difficult as well due to the salary cap and overall parody the league instills. Coaches need good organizational structures in place and talent to succeed, no arguments there, but to say coaching itself is overrated, I just have to disagree on that front. The chiefs aren’t what they are today without Reid. The patriots don’t win those first few super bowls without the genius of Belichick. Sean Payton went 7-9 3 straight seasons WITH Drew Brees, a bad coach loses that locker room and is gone. Now he’s winning games with Taysom Hill and Jameis Winston. Bill Belichick may have been average in Cleveland, but that place became a dumpster fire for 2 decades after he left. Maybe average in that situation was actually an example of great coaching? McVay went to a Super Bowl with Jared Goff, who is now heading up one of the absolutely worst franchises in the NFL, presumably under a coach and coaching staff that is totally overmatched. Tomlin and Harbaugh are as steady as they come, and as their rosters turn over, they continue to lead their team to respective seasons and more playoff seasons than not. Bruce Arians may have been given a loaded roster, but to bring in Tom who had been in one system his whole life and adapt his coaching to fit toms strengths, all the while managing a massive amount of egos in a single locker room and win the Super Bowl is one hell of an example of how great coaching matters. I could literally go on all day. Again good org structures are needed, since they are the ones identifying the coaching talent out there and bringing in the right leader of men. Coaches also DO need talent, which again is accumulated more often and successfully the more stable the organization is. But to point to a few examples of coaches struggling without a QB in place and then parlay that into “coaching is overrated at the pro level” seems pretty absurd to me.

I’ve been really frustrated with Rivera myself but I didn’t get that impression from that quote at all. I actually like that he keeps referencing that a 7-9 record in a down division year doesn’t mean that we had arrived and that the longer term vision is to be much much better than that. No more settling for mediocrity is what I think he was trying to convey. Whether that happens or not, is anyone’s guess. I won’t hold my breath lol. Also, I know it’s easy to just point to how many winning seasons he’s had and act like he’s not a good coach, but he took a terrible 1-15 panthers team to the Super Bowl a couple of years later and had some other really solid seasons mixed in. He’s not some dope coach, even though I said something out of frustration a couple weeks back referencing this regime, I do think it’s way too soon to be breathing down their necks.

Sure, maybe I worded it wrong then. I was trying to say that the collective attitude of focusing on the past transgressions and ripping them for that culture just makes it overall harder to change the narrative on the culture. It’s a real tall task. Hopefully that makes more sense, I don’t think Joe Schmo on here himself is impeding their ability to do their job, poor wording on my part.

There is far more than a single fan on this message board that has this attitude toward the team in general. That’s why Rivera‘s and Wright’s (and maybe whoever replaces them) jobs is such a monumentally hard task. They have to turn the tide for a crumbling fanbase and franchise, which is a far bigger task than simply just winning football games. And to Rivera’s point recently, it probably takes 3 to 5 plus years to truly change the identity of a franchise, and hopefully wins follow suit. The larger point was that claiming we are a place that stands for workplace harassment is a stupid comment with all the changes they are attempting to implement. And that type of attitude fostered by the fans and media absolutely makes for an overall crappy environment for the current people/players/executives here to work in. If you don’t agree, so be it.

I am less than thrilled with the on field product, but to say they aren’t making a concentrated effort to overhaul the culture is disingenuous. Whether the reasons behind it were genuine or not, they did move on from nearly all of the folks involved in the culture you speak of. Continuing to harp on the past serves no purpose and just impedes guys like Wright and Rivera from doing their jobs.

Yeah I guess it’s hard to remember that many years back but certainly in the last few there are very few that I can recall. I agree with everything you said though.

What’s with the obsession of folks talking about Snyder supporters? I’ve read this board for a long time and I literally hardly ever see it, the closest I’ve seen is specific situations where posters won’t believe something because it doesn’t seem logical, but I never read anything positive about Snyder. Seems like a pointless hill to die on.

Passing on the opportunity to trade a modest amount to go up and get Mac Jones will prove to be one of Rivera’s biggest blunders, and may eventually get him fired. I knew jones was being slept on, I knew it as soon as Shanny was rumored to love the guy that he was a great prospect. He fell cause he wasn’t Lamar or Mahomes or super flashy. Guess who else wasn’t like that? The guy he replaced that’s down in Tampa Bay toying with teams in his mid forties. I bet Kyle is really really second guessing the Lance decision, there’s a long time to go, but they could have stood pat and kept their picks and taken Mac. That’s not aging too well at the moment. We should have gone up and gotten Mac, and if we did, this whole messy situation where we are in essentially no mans land probably wouldn’t look so messy. They cannot punt on the position again, they need to identify someone they believe in and go get him. No more half ass effort at the most important position in all of sports.

No one in here that I’ve seen is absolving Washington of anything. You created a straw man argument and then proceeded to argue against it. I suggest you read the below article, might open your eyes to a new perspective. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/washington-nfl-team-scandal-women-sports/26wdla66dx51g50ggn12y290 In fact, this isn’t even unique to Dan Snyder and this franchise, it’s been going on long before that: Honestly, there’s a reason that these stories don’t come out often, and your post is a pretty insensitive take with regards to it all. You assuming this is just a Dan Snyder and Washington thing and that’s the reason why it came out against us and not against another organization is exactly what the NFL wants you to believe. This mindset is part of the problem, just blame Washington and be done with it, that’s exactly what the NFL wants you to think and feel. Meanwhile, there are countless women out there being subjected to some really horrible things, and they are scared to speak out for fear of losing their job or career path in sports. It’s sad, and it’s sad that you are pretending that the reason why you don’t hear about any of it from elsewhere is because it just doesn’t even happen elsewhere...

You seemed to have missed this part of my first post: “Note: I said culture, not how the overall team is run. Very different.” My point is directly related to a few posts that were talking about the NFL protecting Snyder and why that is. I’m simply giving the reasons for it. No one is absolving Washington of anything, but these issues are not isolated to just us. And that’s why Snyder isn’t gone and being “protected”.

I’ll be honest, surprised you went that direction in response to my post. The one guy who has been fired for this type of “culture” directly as a result of this investigation doesn’t even work nor has ever worked for this organization. That isn’t meant to compliment or let Washington off the hook for this type of behavior. It’s just clear as day this isn’t just a Washington thing. We are bleeding fans, a constant hot mess with no direction. It would be easy to get rid of Snyder if it didn’t implicate a whole other host of NFL owners/executives/coaches. Read the tea leaves. It’s easy to pretend we are the only ones with this type of culture, but we’re not. Hell, Allen himself has worked for franchises outside of ours. Did he just decide to engage in that type of behavior starting with us? Also kind of obvious with the gruden news, but hey, believe what you want to believe.

This isn’t a NFL protecting Dan Snyder thing. Washington’s culture was not unique to just Washington, hate to say it. Has Washington made some more gaffes along the way than many franchises? Sure, I suppose. I think part of it is we just suck so dan and Washington are easy targets and it’s easier to point to and highlight those gaffes when winning isn’t present. Note: I said culture, not how the overall team is run. Very different. But those emails implicate far more than just Gruden and Snyder, which is why the NFL is protecting it at all costs. It would be devastating for the league to unearth those 650K emails. If it were just Snyder, he’d be out already. He’d fall on the sword like Gruden. But the problem is, again, this is not unique to Washington. That culture, unfortunately, is pervasive throughout the entire league. So if they take down Dan, you better believe Dan is going to fight tooth and nail to promote more and more investigations into other team cultures. All of a sudden it becomes a much bigger issue for the NFL to deal with. I firmly believe that’s what Gruden means by “the truth will come out one day.” He can’t hide from his words, those are documented, but he knows he isn’t the only one running around talking like that. Dan made it so Allen and Schar are essentially black balled from the league, he’s not just going to roll over when he feels wronged. Separate point but Dan seems like an emotional dude and very reactionary. I don’t think for a second the news of ST’s retirement ceremony was timed that way to distract from anything. Distract from what? Allen who’s long gone and has been smeared to shame? Somehow doubt it. I think it was a giant F U to the fans who left in droves. That seems like something Dan would do.