A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Boss_Hogg said:

 

I'm old enough to remember when Warren Sapp was arrested for domestic violence in 2010 then arrested again for soliciting sex from an undercover cop. 

 

One of my friend's ex went to the U with Sapp in the early 90s. Warren was one of the biggest POS's on campus. He would constantly steal her belongings and lounge on her couch. Dude has always been an ass. 

And Antonio Brown is currently a starting WR for them after paying off a woman last year that accused him of rape. If you are gonna cancel people all of the dregs need to be cancelled. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

The Redskins produced those emails in their dispute with Bruce. Those exact emails is what was leaked. The source may not have had other emails.

 

I can't imagine that the source had *just* the Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden emails.  That seems too limited, too specific.  

30 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

And Antonio Brown is currently a starting WR for them after paying off a woman last year that accused him of rape. If you are gonna cancel people all of the dregs need to be cancelled. 

 

I don't disagree, but let's be honest here.  There's a sliding scale in society that correlates between what you bring to the table and the transgressions you've done.  If you're a garbage man and you're a chomo, well, you're going to the federal penitentiary.  

 

Are you a chomo and make some of the most revolutionary and essential pop music of all time, combined with incredible dance moves?  You'll be labeled a freak and rightly so, but you'll have legions of defenders and people will ignore your allegations for all time and play your music forever.

 

Can you get 10 sacks a year?  Can you put up 1,400 receiving yards a year?  Sure, dodge rape allegations.  People are quick to forget as you produce at an elite level.  

[SoCalSkins]

10 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I can't imagine that the source had *just* the Bruce Allen/Jon Gruden emails.  That seems too limited, too specific.  

Those were the emails in the filing with the Bruce Allen dispute. Part of the argument the Redskins are using is that Bruce was fired for cause and not owed the remainder of his contract is that Bruce violated confidentiality by communicating with the press against the interest of the team and Snyder. Gruden was employed by ESPN during this period and a member of the press. An NFL arbitrator ruled in Allen’s favor last year but the Redskins are claiming he violated the confidentiality clause of that settlement. This is 100% about Bruce and I’m fairly certain it  leaked by someone connected to the Snyder case against Schar’s media shill in India.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2021/04/15/wft-daniel-snyder-asks-court-for-buce-allen-communications

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by SoCalSkins

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Those were the emails in the filing with the Bruce Allen dispute. Part of the argument the Redskins are using is that Bruce was fired for cause and not owed the remainder of his contract is that Bruce violated confidentiality by communicating with the press against the interest of the team and Snyder. Gruden was employed by ESPN during this period and a member of the press. An NFL arbitrator ruled in Allen’s favor last year but the Redskins are claiming he violated the confidentiality clause of that settlement. This is 100% about Bruce and I’m fairly certain it  leaked by someone connected to the Snyder case against Schar’s media shill in India.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2021/04/15/wft-daniel-snyder-asks-court-for-buce-allen-communications

 

 

 

 

 

****.  Well that's what I get for not paying that close attention.

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

Those were the emails in the filing with the Bruce Allen dispute. Part of the argument the Redskins are using is that Bruce was fired for cause and not owed the remainder of his contract is that Bruce violated confidentiality by communicating with the press against the interest of the team and Snyder. Gruden was employed by ESPN during this period and a member of the press. An NFL arbitrator ruled in Allen’s favor last year but the Redskins are claiming he violated the confidentiality clause of that settlement. This is 100% about Bruce and I’m fairly certain it  leaked by someone connected to the Snyder case against Schar’s media shill in India.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2021/04/15/wft-daniel-snyder-asks-court-for-buce-allen-communications

Yup, but that won't prevent some to enforce release of the Report from the Beth Wilkinson's inquiry over WFT.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32389529/nflpa-petition-nfl-release-all-emails-washington-football-team-investigation

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/oct/12/nfl-facing-renewed-calls-wilkinson-report-be-relea/

 

NFLPA is already on it. So even if it isn't linked, it may ends up exploding in Dan's face.

Which would be in line with what happened since he bought the team as what he's done often backfired on him...

[profusion]

6 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

****.  Well that's what I get for not paying that close attention.

 

No doubt! There are so many layers of stink associated with Dan Snyder, that it's tough to keep track of it all.

 

I should point out, however, that the Raiders organization also had the emails and someone there could have been the source of the leak. We'll probably never know for sure. I guess it depends on which guy you think was the real target of the hit. Either way, mafia tactics aren't a great look for the NFL.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Maybe it's just me, but Dan not having e-mail is rather alarming.  Sounds like mafia strategy.

 

The sad part about him not having an email address supposedly goes deeper according to some.  Apparently, according some, Dan is like a 90 year old when it comes to understanding technology and the modern world save buying a yacht with all the bells and whistles.   So even though he's one of the young ones as for owners, he's supposedly old school in terms of getting how the world changed technology wise since his hot shot telemarketing days eons ago.  Maybe its partly why this team always seems behind the curve on so much. 

 

One of the last to adapt analytics.  According to some Shanny had to convince Dan that diet does matter and quality of food and they had to overhaul that.  Hey maybe we should have injury recover devices that even college teams used for years?  Let's do that now.  Each seems like each coaching staff has had to push for changes for this team to adapt to the modern age.    Always behind the curve.  

 

I forgot who did the exposition on how Dan's head is stuck in the 90s but I left with the impression that old dudes like Arthur Blank could make fun of Dan as being old school, lok maybe teaching him how to text, and hey now you don't need a CD to listen to music anymore, etc.  But yeah I've heard from some reporters talking about hearing people who know Dan and saying he's a big time technophobe. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RichmondRedskin88]

If you ever wondered how Adam Schefter gets inside scoops.  Now you know.  He’s one of them.  Pandering to executives. 

[goskins10]

This is from the discussion abotu bringing other QBs here like Aaron Rogers or Russell WIlson and why they likely would not work out here. It led me in a direction that felt like it belonged here more: 

 

From the Taylor thread and  @BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

 

7 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

it’s WFT so it probably wouldn’t work out in the end but it would likely have nothing to do with them as players. 

 

As for working out here - I think so many of us are tired of getting what we think are nice things and they turn to **** when they get here. I agree with @Skinsinparadise that is the Dan Snyder factor. With all the different coaching groups and different executives there have been two constants, losing and Dan Snyder. I mean here we are again. Ron R is a great coach - anyone thinking otherwise is not looking at facts and results. In fairness JDR has been successful pretty much everywhere he has gone, and this coming from someone who started calling for him to be fired 3 weeks ago. 

 

Yet here we are losing again. Chase Young, arguably one of the best college prospects in a generation and he has been barely average this year. The constant is all this? Dan ****ing Snyder. Until we actually start winning there will be a lot of this certain doom and gloom predictions. 

 

This feels like 2013 for me. I was so excited going into that season. RGIII had been electric. We won 10 games for the first time in years. All looked good. And we lay an big fat egg. And then it gets worse when we hear of dissention between dan and shannahan - I still think he is a weasel but the two together make weasels look like angels. Going into this season I dared think we had a legitimate chance to have a solid team that could win 10 gms and make a little noise in the playoffs. The D was terrific and the off just had to be average. And it looked like all the tools had finally lined up in the tool shed - top coaching - check - play makers on D - check - veteran leadership and more weapons on off - check. Coming off a successful year to build on - check. 

 

Instead we get the worst 2-3 team in the league. Barely eking out victories over two other bad teams and getting destroyed by two others. And then to top it off, we are back in the news for off field drama. Gruden's emails were to bruce so I can't imagine this is over for us. They raided the trainers house and team facilities. All from the investigation that keeps on giving. Do we think this is all? I doubt it, seriously. 

 

It is almost to the point if we won a Super Bowl I would be awaiting to hear how it will be take away - some scandal? A reverse of enough calls to change the score? It has gotten that bad under Snyder. At least for the browns when they were losing they were just losing on the field. It's one thing to suck on the field. It's another to add a complete **** show off the field that keeps you in the national spotlight for all the wrong reasons.

 

Ok, rant over. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by goskins10

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

20 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

As for working out here - I think so many of us are tired of getting what we think are nice things and they turn to **** when they get here. I agree with @Skinsinparadise that is the Dan Snyder factor.

Absolutely.

 

My eyes can't roll any further back in my head when I see folks saying that the reason for our pessimism is related to Ron and his staff, and that if we don't believe Rodgers or Wilson could cure our ills, it's because we don't believe in the coaching.

 

No, the only thing I believe in is that Ron is a respected coach in the league.  Have we heard any former player or anyone who's worked with him throw shade on him for any reason at all?  I haven't.

 

That said, he's still in charge, albeit - I'd say too much in charge, too much on his plate.  But that's not his fault - it all ties back to Snyder.  In order for Snyder to draw any head coach, he has no choice but to hand them all the power.  If you were a head coaching candidate, would you come here without that type of power?  But when you wear that many hats, you do yourself and the team a disservice.  It's a catch 22, all as a result of Snyder.

 

Beyond that, I don't think having a respected head coach is enough of a draw to get future hall of fame quarterbacks to finish their career here.  A place that has multiple decade long history of tripping over it's own feet led by Dan Snyder, a depleted and dejected fanbase, a dump stadium that is filled with more opposing fans than our own, and facilities that pail in comparison to some high schools.  None of that is Ron's fault, all of that ties back to Dan Snyder.

 

God bless Ron, for thinking he can actually turn this crap show around.  Just think of all the crap he's been thrust into since he's been here on top of cancer diagnosis and treatment.  Remember that when you are going on and on about how he's a dumbass, that needs to do this or needs to do that, as if you're some kind of expert on what NFL head coaches need to be doing. (not you Goskins10, just the general peanut gallery) Particularly in a place like this that is unlike practically anywhere else when it comes to the amount of off the field drama this job entails.

Edited October 13, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[TSO]

18 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dude, come on.  CLEARLY they used Windows 98.  That was the operating system in place when Dan bought the team in May of 1999.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

This is from the discussion abotu bringing other QBs here like Aaron Rogers or Russell WIlson and why they likely would not work out here. It led me in a direction that felt like it belonged here more: 

 

From the Taylor thread and  @BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

 

 

As for working out here - I think so many of us are tired of getting what we think are nice things and they turn to **** when they get here. I agree with @Skinsinparadise that is the Dan Snyder factor. With all the different coaching groups and different executives there have been two constants, losing and Dan Snyder. I mean here we are again. Ron R is a great coach - anyone thinking otherwise is not looking at facts and results. In fairness JDR has been successful pretty much everywhere he has gone, and this coming from someone who started calling for him to be fired 3 weeks ago. 

 

 

I thought about this recently which is some who defend Dan who are even globally down on him like Brian Mitchell circle back usually to this point which is you can't blame Dan for every bad decision since he's not making every decision, just blame Dan on things that we squarely know he specifically did.  Personally while I get the logic of the point -- it loses the forest for the trees.

 

When I have a good week of work its often marked by a lack of distractions.  I can kill it when I have weeks like that.  But when I got to deal with crap on my plate in addition to everything else, I am never quite at my best.  This is a point I recall @thesubmittedone likes to make which is are you ever getting the best out of anyone here?  My contention is no.

 

Heck even this Jon Gruden-Bruce Allen thing filters to this team.  It's always something.  Ron is being asked about the story in interviews.  It's another distraction.  It's always some drama.  Some crap which emanates from the incompetent and sleazy culture set by Dan.

 

The fact that Shanny had to tell Dan that he needs to feed the players healthy-quality food instead of the subpar food that they had at the time compared to what he was used to in Denver.  The fact that when they had so much injuries, we had to learn that Dan is pals with certain members of the medical staff and would shrug off criticisms from the players about it.  Oh and heck maybe we should start adding recovery facilities to help our players recovery from injuries like other teams do?  He's always behind the curve. 

 

The forest is in flames set by his culture and he's the dude coming to the rescue to put out the fire that he set -- and he wants to be praised for it.  And he doesn't get why people give him a hard time for it.   Ok bad culture with women among other things.  Dan to the rescue, Tanya now in charge, lets hire women -- all is good now?  The problem wasn't his fault of course.  He's only the owner.  Lets praise him for trying to fix another one of his rotten mistakes.  It's a sad pattern that never stops with him.   

 

It's the same thing with coaches.  Oops its all the coaches fault.  Don't worry Dan is as upset about the losing as any of our fans are.  Don't worry he has a new solution.  This new coach promises that things will change from the big bad wolf who was previously there.    Rinse and repeat. 

 

As far as that building goes.  Supposedly Dan rules by fear with all sorts of weird quirks that have been leaked over the years.  Major turnover in that building year after year. On and On and On.  Drama.   Heck yeah that would likely distract anyone of us if we had to deal with drama coupled with everything handed to us is more or less is 2nd rate compared to the rest of the league.  And this all happens with an overbearing emotional jerk as my boss who thinks he knows my job better than I do.  I  still can't get over Tanya saying more or less hey Dan's the X's and O's football guy in the family.  He's the football savant.   Nauseating. 

 

I forgot where it came from.  But I recall one person who worked there was quoted in an article where he said, football is really hard week to week, and you got to be on top of your game.  It takes a lot of focus.  The problem working there is there is always a distraction just about every week to take you away from being your 100% best and that's all that needs to happen to give the opponent the needed edge.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[profusion]

28 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My eyes can't roll any further back in my head when I see folks saying that the reason for our pessimism is related to Ron and his staff, and that if we don't believe Rodgers or Wilson could cure our ills, it's because we don't believe in the coaching.

 

To blame the coaching over the Snyder years, you have to believe that Marty Schottenheimer, Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, and Ron Rivera all suddenly become bad-to-mediocre just by showing up in Ashburn.

 

Really, other than Zorn and Jay (and Norv, but he was inherited), Snyder has had top-shelf HCs over his years of ownership. The constant failure lies at Dan's feet, nowhere else.

 

The HCs in question either bought Dan's BS sales pitch (Gibbs) or they were egotistical enough to think they could overcome the Snyder factor and succeed where the others failed (Shanahan and maybe Ron).

 

Interestingly, what Snyder has NOT had in his entire era is a competent, highly respected GM/football VP/however you want to title it. It's all been mediocre suck-ups like Cerrato and Bruce or HCs taking on dual roles (and thus too much).

 

Snyder won't hire someone to actually run the place for him. A HC can't realistically do that without an engaged and capable owner who can shoulder some of the burden. Snyder should be sailing around on his yacht as far away from the team as possible, and someone competent other than a HC should be making ALL the decisions. It's unlikely to ever happen.

Edited October 13, 2021 by profusion

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

The HCs in question either bought Dan's BS sales pitch (Gibbs) or they were egotistical enough to think they could overcome the Snyder factor and succeed where the others failed (Shanahan and maybe Ron).

 

Interestingly, what Snyder has NOT had in his entire era is a competent, highly respected GM/football VP/however you want to title it. It's all been mediocre suck-ups like Cerrato and Bruce or HCs taking on dual roles (and thus too much).

 

Snyder won't hire someone to actually run the place for him. A HC can't realistically do that without an engaged and capable owner who can shoulder some of the burden. Snyder should be sailing around on his yacht as far away from the team as possible, and someone competent other than a HC should be making ALL the decisions. It's unlikely to ever happen.

 

That's a real good summary for me. I am actually OK with a HC in charge of personnel here not because I like that setup but I don't trust Dan to select a GM and also stay out of their way.  IMO you need some kind of filter with Dan.

 

But if we could operate normally.  Hire a top flight GM.  They hire the coach. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Dissident2]

Wow, Sheehan connecting the dots this morning that the person who leaked the first email from Gruden was the same guy who recently wrote the pathetic puff piece on Snyder in the Wall Street Journal. 

[TSO]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is a point I recall @thesubmittedone likes to make which is are you ever getting the best out of anyone here?  My contention is no.

 

Yup. Heck, I even say that not only are we not getting their best, we consistently see any positives they bring to the table diminish pretty quickly and their negatives (of which everyone has, something fans often forget about like these people aren’t human or something) get highlighted. 
 

To put it simply, we get their worst with time. And it’s inevitable with Snyder. It just is at this point. Focusing on anyone and anything else is just a massive waste of time, and I’m glad more people are seeing it, but the whole “coaching change will make things better” is a marketing gimmick owners/execs have that is just way too enticing to fans to buy into, I’m afraid. The media perpetuates the myth of their impact being everything at the pro level too much and the NFL makes these guys the frontmen of organizations with all the mandatory pressers and everything else. Add to that the difficulty in comprehending sound roster construction and thus resource management in the salary cap era, along with sound organizational principles that create an environment conducive to success… you get what we have.

 

 And Dan has it down really good.  😕 

[profusion]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's a real good summary for me. I am actually OK with a HC in charge of personnel here not because I like that setup but I don't trust Dan to select a GM and also stay out of their way.  IMO you need some kind of filter with Dan.

 

But if we could operate normally.  Hire a top flight GM.  They hire the coach. 

 

Exactly. I'm always wary of calling that person a "GM" because in some franchises that's a glorified head of scouting who reports to a VP or team president. It's that ultimate football-savvy decisionmaker that is needed in Ashburn. Someone to actually run the operation at the highest level, so that the GM and HC don't have to worry about whether the facilities are adequate, the field is good, the support staff is available and top-notch, the right coaches and scouts are hired, etc. etc. Whatever he has said, Dan has clearly always been involved in the day-to-day on those things, and he shouldn't be.

 

It's a billion-dollar business, not a boutique storefront to give your wife something to do. Run the damn thing like it, Dan.

[goskins10]

4 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Yup. Heck, I even say that not only are we not getting their best, we consistently see any positives they bring to the table diminish pretty quickly and their negatives (of which everyone has, something fans often forget about like these people aren’t human or something) get highlighted. 
 

To put it simply, we get their worst with time. And it’s inevitable with Snyder. It just is at this point. Focusing on anyone and anything else is just a massive waste of time, and I’m glad more people are seeing it, but the whole “coaching change will make things better” is a marketing gimmick owners/execs have that is just way too enticing to fans to buy into, I’m afraid. The media perpetuates the myth of their impact being everything at the pro level too much and the NFL makes these guys the frontmen of organizations with all the mandatory pressers and everything else. Add to that the difficulty in comprehending sound roster construction and thus resource management in the salary cap era, along with sound organizational principles that create an environment conducive to success… you get what we have.

 

 And Dan has it down really good.  😕 

 

A TSO sighting!!  Good to see you. Hope all is well! 

 

I think you have beat the drum the most about a traditional structure being vital to the teams success. And until Dan hires a true GM it will never change. I think that is being proven over and over again. I love me some Ron R but he is in over his head in terms of running the entire team. He needs a true GM to do the roster building so he can focus on coaching. 

 

So far no one has been successful at both. And before people say Bill Belichick it seems he had Tom Brady and that is a wild card. Without Tom the Patriots have been pretty pedestrian so far and the Bucs are world beaters. Not hard to connect those dots.  

 

So until Dan either hires a true GM and gets completely out of their way or sells the team (preferably the later) we are destined for this roller-coaster hell. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

11 hours ago, method man said:

The reason TB is so quick to remove Gruden from the Ring of Honor was because one of those leaked emails was Gruden implying Bryan Glazer, one of the owners, perform oral sex on him. That must've really pissed them off.

I mean Caps GM got the job by calling Ted essentially a POS owner didn’t he?  Not the first time a owner had taken heat from a coach/front office person.  Wouldn't be the last either. Ron probably calls Snyder a a psycho motha  ****ing lunatic or worse in his private messages with what he’s dealt with the last few years. 

[profusion]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

So far no one has been successful at both. And before people say Bill Belichick it seems he had Tom Brady and that is a wild card. Without Tom the Patriots have been pretty pedestrian so far and the Bucs are world beaters. Not hard to connect those dots.  

 

I agree with your conclusion completely. However, I would say that Belichick has the support of a far better organization, and I'd guess that Kraft is more involved in the higher-level organizational stuff than we commonly think. Belichick can afford to spend more of his time on purely football-related decisions, because he doesn't have to worry about whether the plumbing works at the training facility or whether the field at the stadium is a safety hazard. Nobody in Ashburn has that luxury.

 

In NFL history, I can think of three "God Emperor Head Coaches" who were successful at running all football aspects of their franchises that for extended periods--Halas, Lombardi, and Belichick. Not only were Halas and Lombardi at it a long time ago in a simpler world, they also were part of highly functional organizations that didn't have a Dan Snyder at the top.

 

Other examples like Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcells either didn't work as well for as long or burned out eventually.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, profusion said:

 

I agree with your conclusion completely. However, I would say that Belichick has the support of a far better organization, and I'd guess that Kraft is more involved in the higher-level organizational stuff than we commonly think. Belichick can afford to spend more of his time on purely football-related decisions, because he doesn't have to worry about whether the plumbing works at the training facility or whether the field at the stadium is a safety hazard. Nobody in Ashburn has that luxury.

 

Agree 100% and that is kind of my point but you put in words more completely. Even with a much better organization even the great Bill B cannot do both roles. 

 

I should add I was Ok with Ron R trying it for the same reason @Skinsinparadise  Anything to keep Dan away - if it does that. 

 

 

 

[justice98]

10 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

Those were the emails in the filing with the Bruce Allen dispute. Part of the argument the Redskins are using is that Bruce was fired for cause and not owed the remainder of his contract is that Bruce violated confidentiality by communicating with the press against the interest of the team and Snyder. Gruden was employed by ESPN during this period and a member of the press. An NFL arbitrator ruled in Allen’s favor last year but the Redskins are claiming he violated the confidentiality clause of that settlement. This is 100% about Bruce and I’m fairly certain it  leaked by someone connected to the Snyder case against Schar’s media shill in India.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2021/04/15/wft-daniel-snyder-asks-court-for-buce-allen-communications

 

I'm almost wondering if Allen banked on Snyder not releasing stuff because of the dirt that he had.  Mutually assured destruction keeping everybody in line.  So potentially,  Allen could see the gloves as off and it's gonna get even more ugly.

[profusion]

5 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I'm almost wondering if Allen banked on Snyder not releasing stuff because of the dirt that he had.  Mutually assured destruction keeping everybody in line.  So potentially,  Allen could see the gloves as off and it's gonna get even more ugly.

 

Lesson: never try to outwrestle Dan Snyder in the mud. He's small but elusive and has sharp teeth.

[method man]

35 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

Wow, Sheehan connecting the dots this morning that the person who leaked the first email from Gruden was the same guy who recently wrote the pathetic puff piece on Snyder in the Wall Street Journal. 

Yep. It was actually Loverro on yday’s pod. 

[NickyJ]

Some TV series are so complicated to follow in real time that I need to go to forums to see it explained piece by piece. Kudos to @SoCalSkins for being that guy who explains it so well.