2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

I was high in Chase, loved Winfield. 
 

Chinn I was okay with. 
 

Curl I liked but not to this extent. Didn’t see that coming...

I was meh on Chinn and wrong. I was super high on Winfield, but I'm always high on the position.

 

Never heard of Curl.

[Fresh8686]

 

 

[Stefanskins]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Easy to get a read on how multiple teams feel based on convos with people that know people, to be honest.

 

Discounting a QB due to the school they attended is really not a good move.

But there’s precedents...precedents KDawg...caveat emptor...

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

No combine is big. Gems may slip through cracks. Our scouting department better be ready. Gonna be interesting which pro days we  attend, don’t want to tip our hand on certain guys I’m sure. Tape will mean more than ever? Gonna be fun.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

No combine is big. Gems may slip through cracks. Our scouting department better be ready. Gonna be interesting which pro days we  attend, don’t want to tip our hand on certain guys I’m sure. Tape will mean more than ever? Gonna be fun.

It’s nuts, right? They have to judge players on film!

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It’s nuts, right? They have to judge players on film!

No combine, no shrine game, no seeing guys in different systems. Haven't we used some of that to draft guys recently?

[PartyPosse]

44 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

 

I feel like a lot of guys are gonna end up returning if they can, especially big 10 guys. Not a long season to prove yourself, no combine and probably no pro days plus next year isn't supposed to be nearly as strong on the offensive side of the ball as this year. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

No combine, no shrine game, no seeing guys in different systems. Haven't we used some of that to draft guys recently?

I don’t think all that stuff is necessary to get reads on players. 
 

Shrine game is more important than the combine. 
 

Senior Bowl is more important than both and that’s going to happen. 
 

 

[PartyPosse]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think all that stuff is necessary to get reads on players. 
 

Shrine game is more important than the combine. 
 

Senior Bowl is more important than both and that’s going to happen. 
 

 

Well Senior Bowl is for players that can't return so it's not going to affect players that have that option.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Well Senior Bowl is for players that can't return so it's not going to affect players that have that option.

It’s never intended to. The point is to get overshadowed or seniors who aren’t high end picks a route to prove themselves. That’s where a lot of diamonds are found. 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

If the season began today, would he be able to start at LT or does he need to be coached up on techniques first? I mean he is pretty loaded with talent.

 

I'm not sure TBH.  It would come down to how quickly he can get acclimated to his NFL scheme because I doubt that it would be very similar to VT's offense.  You never can tell how quickly guys who seem very raw, or who play in college systems that are fairly alien, can grow and adjust to the NFL.  I always go back to the example of Cam Newton.  There was no precedent of a QB like him coming from that kind of offense and translating to a traditional NFL offense, but he did it in his first season more or less.

 

VT guys have translated well to the NFL though.  Wyat Teller became one of the best OLs in the league pretty quickly, so maybe Darrisaw could adjust quickly too.

 

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I feel like Eichengerg isn't quite as talented as Darrisaw but he is more plug and play today. Same with Slater at least at G.

 

I think that is definitely the case.  Eichenberg looks NFL ready.  He's definitely not as talented as Darrisaw is IMO.  Not as fast or athletic and not as flexible, not as likely to be able to shut down a stud speed rusher.  He had a pretty hard day against Rashad Weaver--a highly skilled rusher who pretty much plays like an NFL vet already, but he had a much easier time against Patrick Jones and the other Pitt rushers--raw guys who tend to win with their physical traits.  I think that's a window into the kind of upside Eichenberg has as a player.  He's got the skill to stymie rough guys but he's going to get beat around the edge and on tough counters by the good rushers who are as experienced and skilled as him. 

 

He has NFL ready strength and an NFL body and he plays pretty clean.  Pass sets looks well-schooled and consistent and he plays with a really great motor to where you can set your watch to him always getting a great jump off the snap.  He's got a great first step.  He is already a fantastic and well rounded run blocker in the kind of complex power scheme that is typical of a lot of NFL offenses too.  The Notre Dame coaches do such a good job teaching these kids and getting them ready to play at the next level.  They might be the best in the business now, considering they've basically put three HoF track OLs into the NFL since just 2014.

 

I bet he could be an amazing RT here.  He could really gel with a talented and athletic RG like Scherff.  The right handed run game would be on point and we could expand the complexity of our run scheme.

 

I'm kind of operating on a yes/no basis with the top OTs in the class.  So far Slater, Cosmi, Eichenberg, and Darrisaw are all a yes for me, and Vera-Tucker is an "it depends."    My tentative ranking would be Slater > Darrisaw > Cosmi > Eichenberg > Verah-Tucker, but I haven't settled on that yet, and I haven't fully sussed out where I think Mayfield, Leatherwood, Little, Jenkins, Walker, Carman, and Radunz stand in regards to them.

Also kind of feels like Eichenberg could be an awesome guard prospect.  The power and snap quickness are there for him to excel inside.  Might protect him against the really explosive and skilled edge rushers that can give him problems too.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I was meh on Chinn and wrong. I was super high on Winfield, but I'm always high on the position.

 

Never heard of Curl.

I had watched tape on Curl. But didnt have him in my top 15 Safeties in the class. Shows what I know.

[PartyPosse]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

I had watched tape on Curl. But didnt have him in my top 15 Safeties in the class. Shows what I know.

Considering he went in the 7th, I don't think many had him in the top 15 at S

[DWinzit]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'm kind of operating on a yes/no basis with the top OTs in the class.  So far Slater, Cosmi, Eichenberg, and Darrisaw are all a yes for me, and Vera-Tucker is an "it depends."    My tentative ranking would be Slater > Darrisaw > Cosmi > Eichenberg > Verah-Tucker, but I haven't settled on that yet, and I haven't fully sussed out where I think Mayfield, Leatherwood, Little, Jenkins, Walker, Carman, and Radunz stand in regards to them.

Also kind of feels like Eichenberg could be an awesome guard prospect.  The power and snap quickness are there for him to excel inside.  Might protect him against the really explosive and skilled edge rushers that can give him problems too.

If I want a LT that is ready to start in September that isn't named Sewell do you think Slater is the guy? Seems like Slater and Eichenberg could be thrown right in at G but but maybe not LT and Darrisaw needs a little coaching up but has more upside. What little I have seen from V-Tucker I didn't like very much.I looked a lot at Little last year and did not like him. I was pleasantly surprised with a quick review of Cosmi a couple weeks ago. Not sure he is plug and play at LT but I liked him. It's not the same OT class as those top 4 last year that's for sure. 

[mhd24]

I think Eichenberg will certainly be there, but I just don't see the top 3 (Sewell, Slater, and Darisow) being three.  Tackles go early (See last year).  Hopefully Eichenberg isn'y Mike Mclinchey 2.0 (49er fans think he stinks).

[The Consigliere]

On 1/12/2021 at 12:28 PM, CapsSkins said:

Would you rather have Pitts or Najee Harris if you think you can sign Allen Robinson in FA?

 

Pitts x10,000,000

 

Harris is gonna be 23 before opening kickoff in the fall, and we already have an elite game changing RB. Game changing TE's, having two legit options we can use? Pitts is regarded as the best TE prospect of the past decade and would allow us to use a ton of 12 personal packages, Harris isn't a top 5 RB over the past 4 years (and when you add in age, I wouldn't put him in my top 8-10). 

 

The league has a paucity of elite TE's, and has a gigantic pile of elite RB's in comparison, many set to be available as FA's in the coming years as well. It's a colossal waste of draft capital to take Harris, pure insanity and terrible team building strategy. 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think all that stuff is necessary to get reads on players. 
 

Shrine game is more important than the combine. 
 

Senior Bowl is more important than both and that’s going to happen. 
 

 

 

 

Ehh, depends which position your evaluating, and what is being testing. The 40 alone as a screener for RB's and TE's is remarkably helpful. 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/12/2021 at 4:55 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

That's the dude am trading up for but only if he's in the teens.

 

 

 

if he falls into the teens I'd trade up for him too but I'd be surprised

 

 

 

 

 

Drop rate is not a sticky stat, so him holding onto passes is largely irrelevant to me, beyond some outliers, the stat doesn't carry over year to year much at all. That's not one of Pitts innumerable selling points. 

 

Also don't get the knock on Engram. Engram's been playing his career with Eli's corpse, and Danny "Bust" Dimes. Despite that he's bookended his career w/two 60+ catch seasons in an offense that's been largely moribund w/noone to pull attention off of him except for Barkley when Barkley's been healthy (which has been rare), and Engram himself has missed a ton of time w/injuries. I guess you could complain about the health track record, it aint great, but beyond that Engram's been basically as good as advertised coming out when healthy. He's been let down by garbage coaches, horrible quarterbacking, and little to pry attention away from him in the offense, and even w/all that, he's caught 216 balls in just 39 starts. Don't get why Giants fans would be unhappy w/him barring the legit health issues (and TE is notorious for incurring tons of injuries), especially when you consider that most TE's don't do ---- their first 2-3 years in the league (see OJ Howard's uneven career, Cole Kmet, and Trautman last year, Fant and Hockenson, Goedert and Hurst (puke for Hurst) etc. Takes time generally for TE's to be ready, but Engram, like Kittle in his draft class, blew up right out of the gates, and other than health, both have been quite good. 

 

Tour de force in arguments I disagree w/in those two takes (Drops and Engram) lol. 

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Also don't get the knock on Engram. Engram's been playing his career with Eli's corpse,

 

My wife is a Giants fan so I've caught most of their games.  He's unbelievably bad in critical moments in games.  He has his shares of drops but what makes him a punchline with some in the NY media is his drops seem to come at critical times in games.  He's Mr Unclutch.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

13. LOS ANGELES CHARGERS: T RASHAWN SLATER, NORTHWESTERN

Like the Bengals earlier, the Chargers need to protect their prized asset. And although it's seemingly impossible that Slater falls to them — because nothing good ever happens to the Chargers — they would snap him up in a second if he were still on the board.

My favorite thing about Slater is how strong his left arm/hand is — he gets that paw on you and it’s over; you might as well get a drink of water since the rep is done. Slater had to play against much better competition than Sewell, and you can very much expect elaborate breakdowns of his handful of reps against Chase Young in 2019.

14. MINNESOTA VIKINGS: EDGE GREGORY ROUSSEAU, MIAMI

In real life, if Christian Barmore is here, they’d love to have that presence in the middle of their defense as a pass-rusher. But he’s already gone in my world, so they find another pass-rusher.

Rousseau did play a lot as a 3-tech in 2019, but he does seem suited for the outside in the NFL. He is as raw as anything but has the athleticism that is uncoachable, as they say. Both Quincy Roche and Jaelan Phillips played better for Miami in 2020 than Rousseau did in 2019, but athletes rule in the NFL.

 

15. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: QB MAC JONES, ALABAMA

I’m about to make a lot of the same mistakes I’ve made in the past, but here we go again overrating a non-athletic quarterback.

I’m going to continue to stan for quarterbacks who don’t have the physical capabilities to throw the ball 100 yards or escape tacklers in the pocket and take off because having to play quarterback from the pocket is really hard. Mac Jones made it look really easy this year. Sure, Steve Sarkisian deserves a lot of credit for the “gimmick” offense they ran, but Jones didn’t make any mistakes, threw the ball accurately and does have more zip on his throws than we want to realize.

Picking a quarterback here comes with the assumption that Cam Newton doesn’t return to New England, which looks like it could go either way right now. I don’t think the Patriots' woeful offensive performance was all Cam’s fault — I think that there's still a season or two of close-to-elite play left in Newton — but the Pats may just want to blow the whole thing and start young again.

16. ARIZONA CARDINALS: TE KYLE PITTS, FLORIDA

If Pitts falls this far, it will be tough for the Cards to pass on him. With Larry Fitzgerald at the end of his time in the league, finding a new playmaker from the inside would be huge for this team. Pitts earned the highest grade we've ever given to a college tight end over a single season (96.2), and he connected with Kyle Trask for a passer rating of 146.2 in 2020 while averaging 2.22 yards per route run from the slot.

17. LAS VEGAS RAIDERS: EDGE KWITY PAYE, MICHIGAN

Las Vegas could go in a few different directions, but in this scenario, someone with the kind of athleticism that Paye has is hard to pass up. He’s like Rousseau in the sense that he didn’t put it all together in college — although Paye figured it out to a much higher degree — but the burst and quickness can’t be taught, so he’s an automatic first-rounder.

18. MIAMI DOLPHINS: EDGE JAYSON OWEH, PENN STATE

We’ve talked about how Bill Belichick and the defensive guys who have come off his tree try their best to generate pass rush using stunts and blitzes to get workmanlike players home to the quarterback. Well, it’s still always better to have really good edge rushers. Oweh is still developing, and he’s an intriguing player at this point in the draft. He’s going to keep developing his pass-rush skills, but at least you know from the jump that he can play well against the run.

19. WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM: T CHRISTIAN DARRISAW, VIRGINIA TECH

This is such a tough position to be in because all the interesting quarterbacks will be taken at this point. So, either you take Kyle Trask — more on that later — or you just roll with Taylor Heinicke, see if he really is the future and take a player to help him along the way.

Darrisaw was the ACC’s best tackle in 2020 because he figured out how to stop people from getting to his quarterbacks. His 4.3% pressure rate in 2019 was cut in half to 2.1% this past season.

[Blanka]

If the top 8 played out like that, I’m calling Denver to get to 9 for Wilson. 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

If I want a LT that is ready to start in September that isn't named Sewell do you think Slater is the guy? Seems like Slater and Eichenberg could be thrown right in at G but but maybe not LT and Darrisaw needs a little coaching up but has more upside. What little I have seen from V-Tucker I didn't like very much.I looked a lot at Little last year and did not like him. I was pleasantly surprised with a quick review of Cosmi a couple weeks ago. Not sure he is plug and play at LT but I liked him. It's not the same OT class as those top 4 last year that's for sure. 

Yeah I think it's Slater.  From a technique standpoint, he pretty much looks ready, and his speed is so good that it should help him recover when he does make mistakes.  The only thing that I think might hold him back is strength/size.  Maybe he'll need time to get stronger whereas Eichenberg is a RS Senior who has been in an elite program that probably has top notch strength coaching.  Eichenberg basically already has his NFL body, so he could translate fairly quickly too.

 

The other thing that suggests early competence with Slater is that he's probably going to get picked by a zone heavy team since they will rank him higher on their boards than other teams, and his run blocking will be quite good for that kind of scheme.  That's a big part of why I think he's such a natural fit for us in particular, if he's still on the board.  A better and more natural fit than Eichenberg plus he's just flat out more talented than Eichenberg is.

 

Looked to me like VT was a really zone heavy run game too and that Darrisaw would be a pretty natural fit in our run game too.  He checks a lot of the boxes for us and seems like a smart and natural pick at 19.

 

Shooting from the hip, my gut take is that Walker Little sucks and he is riding his recruiting hype into early round projections and that he probably should be a late day three pick or UDFA.  I watched some of his sophomore cutups heading into the 2019 season, expecting to see a stud, and was shocked that he looked bad.  Then he got seriously injured and missed almost all of last year, then he opted out of the 2020 season when he really needed to put some decent play on film.  BUT, he's getting early round grading from a lot of places, so I'm going to go back and try and find more of his cut ups to see why.  I'm going to keep an open mind with him for now.

 

I also was a little disappointed when I watched a cut up of Brady Christiensen.  Just one game, but I thought he'd look better since he was an AP All American.  I'm going to keep an open mind on him too.

 

EDIT: Wanted to add that I was also shocked at how bad Trey Adams looked when I went over his 2018 cut ups around the same time as Walker Little.  That was back when he was getting widespread projection as a first rounder.  Then he pretty much self-combusted and my gut that his film was late round to UDFA quality ended up being prescient.  So I'm not going to talk myself into Little if his cut ups are as bad as I remember.

[Ball Security]

In that scenario above, how much would it cost to go up to 15 and grab Pitts?

[Berggy9598]

Combine means very little unless you're a scout and you've been looking forward to getting hammered in Indianapolis 4 straight nights. 

[Going Commando]

My guy Ty Fryfogle is going back to Indiana for the extra year of eligibility the NCAA gave to seniors.  Kind of a bummer because he was a potential day three gem I was hoping we could get.  The fact that he's putting the NFL on hold speaks well of how much Tom Allen has gotten those kids buying into that program.  Kind of feels like he's destined for bigger pastures, but I really hope he stays there for the rest of his career.

 

Anyway, Jamar Johnson declared for the draft.  You guys might remember him from the Ohio State game when he gave Fields Hell.  Indiana was a surprisingly badass defense this season, and he was the tip of the spear for them.  He's a barbarian.  Look at how good his highlight reel from this short season was: