2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I was actually thinking about it differently.  Move back from 19 and see if one of the decent OTs or Owusu Koromoah is still there in the late 20s.  Then use the capital you gain from that trade down to move up in the second round and get Etienne.  No future picks spent.

Should be possible to move around and come out with RB, LB, OT in the first two days without losing future picks. I agree. 

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Should be possible to move around and come out with RB, LB, OT in the first two days without losing future picks. I agree. 

 

The depth at OT looks good this year, to the point where it probably has mire first round to early second round caliber talent than any other position.  The depth at LB and RB has ended up being disappointing.  I thought RB was going to be better, but Journey Brown having to quit football, Master Teague and Max Borghi staying in school, and Chuba Hubbard having a disappointing season before opting out really whittled down the quality of the class.

 

The more I think about it, the more I fear that there is a massive difference in quality between Etienne and the middle tiers of the RBs, and I become less inclined to wait on the position than I was initially.  In order to be certain we get a true upgrade over what we already have, I think it will need to be a tier 1 RB.

 

TE would also be in the mix in the second if I still missed out on Etienne.  Freirmuth would be worth a trade up too, and I could sit tight and probably still get Brevin Jordan at 52.  No matter what, trading down in the first gets us highly useful capital.

 

I think there are a handful of prospects that you just pick at 19 and don't trade down.  Obviously Smitty or Chase get you to pick WR at 19 as a BPA pick.  Slater probably tops the list of position specific players for me now that I've watched him.  He's pretty much the perfect fit for us given our system and need.  I think Collins would too, and obviously Wilson or Fields should they tumble.  And I think Darrisaw might get me to stay at 19 too, as would Farley.  But other than them, I think there is so much OT talent in the 20-60 range of the class that I would move down and see who is still left after.

[Stefanskins]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

No. I'd probably be ok with taking him if he falls to 19. He's extremely talented but IMO he's not a Kelce, Gronk, Kittle level TE. Those guys are phenomenal pass catchers AND they're great blockers. From what I've seen when I've watched him play and in his cutups, Pitts is a pretty terrible blocker. He also has a very slight frame for a TE at 6'6 240.

 

He's basically a big WR and whoever draft him is going to need to play him that way. If they try to force him to gain weight and fit him into a Gronk or Kelce role, he's not going to flourish in my opinion. 

 

 

"I saw a guy win the lottery once with a ticket from a store I've been into as well. Conclusion: That store gives out winning lottery tickets and I should focus my investments on buying lottery tickets from that store every day."

lol or you could conclude that scouts aren't infallible...

[mhd24]

49 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The depth at OT looks good this year, to the point where it probably has mire first round to early second round caliber talent than any other position.  The depth at LB and RB has ended up being disappointing.  I thought RB was going to be better, but Journey Brown having to quit football, Master Teague and Max Borghi staying in school, and Chuba Hubbard having a disappointing season before opting out really whittled down the quality of the class.

 

The more I think about it, the more I fear that there is a massive difference in quality between Etienne and the middle tiers of the RBs, and I become less inclined to wait on the position than I was initially.  In order to be certain we get a true upgrade over what we already have, I think it will need to be a tier 1 RB.

 

TE would also be in the mix in the second if I still missed out on Etienne.  Freirmuth would be worth a trade up too, and I could sit tight and probably still get Brevin Jordan at 52.  No matter what, trading down in the first gets us highly useful capital.

 

I think there are a handful of prospects that you just pick at 19 and don't trade down.  Obviously Smitty or Chase get you to pick WR at 19 as a BPA pick.  Slater probably tops the list of position specific players for me now that I've watched him.  He's pretty much the perfect fit for us given our system and need.  I think Collins would too, and obviously Wilson or Fields should they tumble.  And I think Darrisaw might get me to stay at 19 too, as would Farley.  But other than them, I think there is so much OT talent in the 20-60 range of the class that I would move down and see who is still left after.

 

 

Is Christian completely out of the picture at this point?  He wasn't great, but he was the starter ahead of Lucas.  Both of those guys are not world beaters, but they are also not complete let-downs.  Hopefully he rehabs his knee injury.

[method man]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Is Christian completely out of the picture at this point?  He wasn't great, but he was the starter ahead of Lucas.  Both of those guys are not world beaters, but they are also not complete let-downs.  Hopefully he rehabs his knee injury.

I see Christian as a swing tackle

[mhd24]

Decided to do a mock draft with trades:

1). Detroit trades Matthew Stafford to SF for #12 overall+2022 3rd round pick

2). Jets trade Sam Darnold to Chicago for 2021 3rd round pick

 

Round 1

1). Jacksonville-Trevor Lawrence (Cemented as a stone cold lock)

2). New York Jets-Zach Wilson (I don't buy the love for Darnold)

3). Miami (from Houston)-Dovonta Smith (Easy pick especially with familiarity with Tua)

4). Denver (***TRADE***) (Denver trades #9+2021 2nd+2022 2nd to Atlanta for #4)-Justin Fields (They know Drew Lock isn't the answer)

5). Cincinatti-Penei Sewell (If he's there on the board, he's the pick)

6). Philadephia-Ja'Marr Chase (The FO doesn't value LBs, so Parsons isn't in consideration)

7). Detroit-Trey Lance (They decide the rebuild (See Stafford trade above))

8). Carolina-Rashawn Slater (The O-Line was weak this year)

9). Las Vegas (***TRADE***) (LV trades #17+2021 2nd+2022 3rd to Atlanta for #9)-Micah Parsons (Vegas needs a 3-down LB for Gus Bradley's defense.  They trade ahead to ensure they get Parsons ahead of Dallas.  Similar trade to what Pittsburgh made for Devin Bush)

10). Buffalo (***TRADE***) (Bills trade #30+2021 3rd+2022 1st to Dallas for #10)-Kyle Pitts (Bills trade up to get Pitts.  Its a steep price, but they are ready to win now and they feel Pitts, Diggs, and Beasley will make their offense elite.  Similar trade to what the Saints made for Marcus Davenport.  Dallas doesn't feel there is a defender worthy to take here).

11). New York Giants-Jaylon Waddle (Need weapons for Jones).

12). Detroit (from San Francisco)-Zaven Collins (best defender available.  Their LB play has been atrocious).

13). Los Angelas Chargers-Christian Darrisaw (Best tackle on the board.  Bulaga is getting up there in age)

14). Minnesota-Daviyon Nixon (DTs were horrible last year)

15). New England-Patrick Surtain (I have no idea where they want to go.  Gillmore was injured and is on the downside)

16). Arizona-Caleb Farley (Peterson is no longer elite)

17). Atlanta (from Las Vegas)-Najee Harris (They need to control the clock and need a bell-cow for new coach Arthur Smith's offense)

18). Miami-Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (add speed to LB core)

19). Tampa Bay (***TRADE***) (TB trades #27 overall+2021 3rd round pick for #19 overall)-Mac Jones (No player worthy to be picked here.  Trade down to get an extra 3rd.  TB trades up for the QB of the future).

20). Chicago-Rashod Bateman (Allen Robinson looks likely to leave in FA)

21). Indianapolis-Sam Cosmi (LT is a major need with the Costanzo retirement).

22). Tennessee-Gregory Russeau (BPA on defense)

23). New York Jets (from Seattle)-Kwity Paye (Edge rusher is a major need)

24). Pittsburgh-Liam Eichenberg (Their LT is a FA.  They have no cap room)

25). Jacksonville (from Los Angeles Rams)-Christian Barmore (Play late in the year helped elevate his stock)

26). Cleveland-Jaelan Phillips (Need an edge rusher opposite Garrett)

27). Washington (from Tampa Bay)-Pat Friermuth (a little high, but WR depth is enough to hope someone falls to the 2nd round.  Our TE depth is atrocious, and Logan Thomas is only signed for one more year.  He's a good blocker and would instantly help the run game).

28). Baltimore-Wyatt Davis (probably BPA here.  A good trade down spot for them).

29). New Orleans-Elijah Moore (Perfect fit for their offense)

30). Dallas (from Buffalo)-Trevon Moehrig (Dan Quinn defenses need good safety play)

31). Green Bay-Travis Ettienne (I think they lose Aaron Jones in FA (Jets is my choice).  Can split time with their 2nd rounder last year)

32). Kansas City-Alex Leatherwood (Tackle play has not been good.  Eric Fisher may be near the end).

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Stefanskins said:

lol or you could conclude that scouts aren't infallible...

 

Of course you're right about that. But EVERY scout completely and utterly failed with Brady...including NE's, seeing as how they waited until the 6th round to take a flyer on him.

 

But Brady isn't a once in a lifetime thing. He's a once in the history of a sport kind of thing. There was simply no way to know what he would become. And it's not like there was some super secret puzzle piece that if they'd just seen it they would have immediately known that they were looking at the best QB to ever play the game. 

 

Brady's existence doesn't necessarily mean that there are tons of other absolute stud future HoF QBs just milling about in drafts waiting for some intrepid scout to see that missing puzzle piece. If that were true there would be way way way more HoF level QBs playing right now.

[HoggLife]

55 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Decided to do a mock draft with trades:

1). Detroit trades Matthew Stafford to SF for #12 overall+2022 3rd round pick

2). Jets trade Sam Darnold to Chicago for 2021 3rd round pick

 

Round 1

1). Jacksonville-Trevor Lawrence (Cemented as a stone cold lock)

2). New York Jets-Zach Wilson (I don't buy the love for Darnold)

3). Miami (from Houston)-Dovonta Smith (Easy pick especially with familiarity with Tua)

4). Denver (***TRADE***) (Denver trades #9+2021 2nd+2022 2nd to Atlanta for #4)-Justin Fields (They know Drew Lock isn't the answer)

5). Cincinatti-Penei Sewell (If he's there on the board, he's the pick)

6). Philadephia-Ja'Marr Chase (The FO doesn't value LBs, so Parsons isn't in consideration)

7). Detroit-Trey Lance (They decide the rebuild (See Stafford trade above))

8). Carolina-Rashawn Slater (The O-Line was weak this year)

9). Las Vegas (***TRADE***) (LV trades #17+2021 2nd+2022 3rd to Atlanta for #9)-Micah Parsons (Vegas needs a 3-down LB for Gus Bradley's defense.  They trade ahead to ensure they get Parsons ahead of Dallas.  Similar trade to what Pittsburgh made for Devin Bush)

10). Buffalo (***TRADE***) (Bills trade #30+2021 3rd+2022 1st to Dallas for #10)-Kyle Pitts (Bills trade up to get Pitts.  Its a steep price, but they are ready to win now and they feel Pitts, Diggs, and Beasley will make their offense elite.  Similar trade to what the Saints made for Marcus Davenport.  Dallas doesn't feel there is a defender worthy to take here).

11). New York Giants-Jaylon Waddle (Need weapons for Jones).

12). Detroit (from San Francisco)-Zaven Collins (best defender available.  Their LB play has been atrocious).

13). Los Angelas Chargers-Christian Darrisaw (Best tackle on the board.  Bulaga is getting up there in age)

14). Minnesota-Daviyon Nixon (DTs were horrible last year)

15). New England-Patrick Surtain (I have no idea where they want to go.  Gillmore was injured and is on the downside)

16). Arizona-Caleb Farley (Peterson is no longer elite)

17). Atlanta (from Las Vegas)-Najee Harris (They need to control the clock and need a bell-cow for new coach Arthur Smith's offense)

18). Miami-Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (add speed to LB core)

19). Tampa Bay (***TRADE***) (TB trades #27 overall+2021 3rd round pick for #19 overall)-Mac Jones (No player worthy to be picked here.  Trade down to get an extra 3rd.  TB trades up for the QB of the future).

20). Chicago-Rashod Bateman (Allen Robinson looks likely to leave in FA)

21). Indianapolis-Sam Cosmi (LT is a major need with the Costanzo retirement).

22). Tennessee-Gregory Russeau (BPA on defense)

23). New York Jets (from Seattle)-Kwity Paye (Edge rusher is a major need)

24). Pittsburgh-Liam Eichenberg (Their LT is a FA.  They have no cap room)

25). Jacksonville (from Los Angeles Rams)-Christian Barmore (Play late in the year helped elevate his stock)

26). Cleveland-Jaelan Phillips (Need an edge rusher opposite Garrett)

27). Washington (from Tampa Bay)-Pat Friermuth (a little high, but WR depth is enough to hope someone falls to the 2nd round.  Our TE depth is atrocious, and Logan Thomas is only signed for one more year.  He's a good blocker and would instantly help the run game).

28). Baltimore-Wyatt Davis (probably BPA here.  A good trade down spot for them).

29). New Orleans-Elijah Moore (Perfect fit for their offense)

30). Dallas (from Buffalo)-Trevon Moehrig (Dan Quinn defenses need good safety play)

31). Green Bay-Travis Ettienne (I think they lose Aaron Jones in FA (Jets is my choice).  Can split time with their 2nd rounder last year)

32). Kansas City-Alex Leatherwood (Tackle play has not been good.  Eric Fisher may be near the end).

Worst mock I've seen yet

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, method man said:

I see Christian as a swing tackle

I see Christian as a camp cut.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

Is Christian completely out of the picture at this point?  He wasn't great, but he was the starter ahead of Lucas.  Both of those guys are not world beaters, but they are also not complete let-downs.  Hopefully he rehabs his knee injury.

 

Neither Christian, Charles, nor Lucas would prevent me from picking an OT early.  Christian is reaching the end of his rookie deal and effectively given us nothing.

 

The other thing is an OT like Slater could also be a dominant guard prospect too.

[Stefanskins]

22 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Of course you're right about that. But EVERY scout completely and utterly failed with Brady...including NE's, seeing as how they waited until the 6th round to take a flyer on him.

 

But Brady isn't a once in a lifetime thing. He's a once in the history of a sport kind of thing. There was simply no way to know what he would become. And it's not like there was some super secret puzzle piece that if they'd just seen it they would have immediately known that they were looking at the best QB to ever play the game. 

 

Brady's existence doesn't necessarily mean that there are tons of other absolute stud future HoF QBs just milling about in drafts waiting for some intrepid scout to see that missing puzzle piece. If that were true there would be way way way more HoF level QBs playing right now.

agreed...but I'm not hoping for the next Brady or Montana, I'm just hoping for a top 10 qb...and if the "GOAT" can be so easily dismissed then maybe Heinicke has been dismissed too...a boy can dream can't he...

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Of course you're right about that. But EVERY scout completely and utterly failed with Brady...including NE's, seeing as how they waited until the 6th round to take a flyer on him.

 

But Brady isn't a once in a lifetime thing. He's a once in the history of a sport kind of thing. There was simply no way to know what he would become. And it's not like there was some super secret puzzle piece that if they'd just seen it they would have immediately known that they were looking at the best QB to ever play the game. 

 

Brady's existence doesn't necessarily mean that there are tons of other absolute stud future HoF QBs just milling about in drafts waiting for some intrepid scout to see that missing puzzle piece. If that were true there would be way way way more HoF level QBs playing right now.

I don’t know if the NE scouts failed on Brady or not. It wouldn’t be smart to pick him in the first if no one else wanted him.

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t know if the NE scouts failed on Brady or not. It wouldn’t be smart to pick him in the first if no one else wanted him.

 

Yeah I suppose that's true. Though if you were a scout and had an idea that a guy who may be seen by most as more of a mid to late round prospect was potentially special, would you really roll the dice and wait all the way to the 6th round to grab him?

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I suppose that's true. Though if you were a scout and had an idea that a guy who may be seen by most as more of a mid to late round prospect was potentially special, would you really roll the dice and wait all the way to the 6th round to grab him?

If I talked to some scouting pals and got them a few drinks and limbered up and they said, “the kid from Michigan is undraftable. Slow, noodle arm. Waste of a pick!”

 

Yes.

[method man]

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I see Christian as a camp cut.

Very unlikely. You need four tackles on your roster. At worst, you give him the low level tender and have him take Sharpe’s spot

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Neither Christian, Charles, nor Lucas would prevent me from picking an OT early.  Christian is reaching the end of his rookie deal and effectively given us nothing.

 

The other thing is an OT like Slater could also be a dominant guard prospect too.

 

Slater and Darrisaw intrigue me.  Cosmi, too.  It wouldn't shock me if all three go before our pick because tackles tend to go early.   His arm length measurements whenever it comes out seems key to me.  As guard, he intrigues me more than Wyatt. 

 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, method man said:

Very unlikely. You need four tackles on your roster. At worst, you give him the low level tender and have him take Sharpe’s spot

Right now if Sharpe stays we have 4 and I would be shocked if we didn’t draft one.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Slater and Darrisaw intrigue me.  Cosmi, too.  It wouldn't shock me if all three go before our pick because tackles tend to go early.   His arm length measurements whenever it comes out seems key to me.  As guard, he intrigues me more than Wyatt. 

 

Slater is the cleanest OL prospect from a technique standpoint.  His hand-work is excellent and it will translate to immediate competency in NFL pass pro.  And his lateral speed and agility is arguably the best in the entire class, it's an elite trait that compares favorably to any OL prospect that has come out in recent years.

 

You're right that his arm length will be a key measurement.  His bench is going to matter, and I think his height will be key too.  I suspect that he's going to measure a 603x, which is going to put him a lot lower on the boards of power running and vertical passing offense teams.  It could be a situation where west coast and ZBS heavy teams have him as like a top ten pick and other teams have him as like a second rounder because he's outside of their size norms for a tackle and isn't a good fit as a guard for a power blocking scheme. 

 

He is an excellent fit in our offense.  Basically a better version of Saahdiq Charles in every regard.  He would be a day one starter at LT for us IMO, and if we don't get a QB, then Slater is probably the most valuable pick we can make at 19.

[CommanderDOOM]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I got a Tiki vibe with Khalil Herbert.

[RoseHill]

I have tried several times to make an account...

Maybe its because I haven't tried on a computer. Been lurking for years. I really like Javonte Williams if we can get him in the 3rd. I feel like he could possibly go in the second. I'm biased because he came from my tiny high school and he wound up going to my college team. I pull for Wallace Rose Hill, UNC and the football team.  I played with Nate Irving, we got a good program but D1 and draft picks are rare around here

[CapsSkins]

25 minutes ago, RoseHill said:

I have tried several times to make an account...

Maybe its because I haven't tried on a computer. Been lurking for years. I really like Javonte Williams if we can get him in the 3rd. I feel like he could possibly go in the second. I'm biased because he came from my tiny high school and he wound up going to my college team. I pull for Wallace Rose Hill, UNC and the football team.  I played with Nate Irving, we got a good program but D1 and draft picks are rare around here

 

Welcome! Seems like Williams is a heavy downhill type runner?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Welcome! Seems like Williams is a heavy downhill type runner?

Can be. Can also break tackles, uses his off arm extremely well, elusive, good COD.

 

He’s my RB2.

[CapsSkins]

34 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Can be. Can also break tackles, uses his off arm extremely well, elusive, good COD.

 

He’s my RB2.

 

All else being equal, I feel much better about going RB in the 3rd vs. up high at 19. But man if we could get one of those promising young LBs like Collins to pair with Lavonte David and then grab a dude like Williams in the 3rd, I'd be feeling great. 

[Stefanskins]

7 hours ago, RoseHill said:

I have tried several times to make an account...

Maybe its because I haven't tried on a computer. Been lurking for years. I really like Javonte Williams if we can get him in the 3rd. I feel like he could possibly go in the second. I'm biased because he came from my tiny high school and he wound up going to my college team. I pull for Wallace Rose Hill, UNC and the football team.  I played with Nate Irving, we got a good program but D1 and draft picks are rare around here

for sure...go Heels!!!