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2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I don't think this is fair to Gibson. He was one of the leadign rookie running backs. Calling him fragile is putting him on a Darius Guice level where he is only playing a few snaps a year and going down for weeks after the first hard tackle. Gibson was a grinder and was getting yards week in and week out before the injury. I wouldn't say the 'slows down late in the season' either because he's only had one season. He missed 2 weeks, had good games in week 16 and 17. For a rookie to put up almost 800 yards rushing is a good year and its promising for the future. 

 

What I'd say we need is another Gibson/JDM. I was never a fan of Barber and I don't think he really fits into this offense. Gibson is a 220 pound back who is versatile but used more as a runner. JDM is a 195 pound back who is versatile but used more as a receiver. Barber is a 225 pound back who is used exclusively as a pound the ball man, kinda like a fullback but without the lead blocking.

 

What neither Gibson or JDM did well was blocking so I'd be looking for them (particularly Gibson) to improve in that area and get better at stopping blitzers. And if that's not something that's likely to happen this offseason, then I'd look at bringing somebody in either as a FA or in the draft who can block better. I honestly wouldn't even rule out getting an exclusive fullback like a Mike Sellers or Darrel Young. I'm not sure how often we'd use a 2 back system with a FB & RB though so I wonder about those guys who are "versatile" and can play both positions. One name that comes to mind is Thaddeus Moss who is known for his blocking ability (I'd also throw Hale Hentges in here but he's not on the team). But I think that a FB could help this team a lot. 


I think the best thing to do is get a top end bellcow back that lets Gibson and McKissick be used as weapons and keeps them very fresh (and dangerous). But those don’t grow on trees. I think Najee Harris is that but, even as his biggest fan, if he’s there at 19 (he won’t be) and there’s a receiver or LB there... it’s going to be tough to pull the trigger.

 

But there’s a few other backs who can do the job in the draft. Williams, Carter, Patterson among others.

 

Then theres power complimentary backs like Brian Robinson Jr, who was Harris’ back up who is a power back but has some ball skills and can develop into a workhorse (but isn’t quite there yet as his agility is a little off to make those backfield cuts). Also Rhamondre Stevenson who is a human wrecking ball.

 

Then theres guys more in the mold of Gibson and McKissick. Not my ideal chess piece, but one I can get behind: Etienne, Borghi, Felton types. Though Etienne can be an every down back... but his pass pro is the worst I saw in this years class...

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10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't think this is fair to Gibson. He was one of the leadign rookie running backs. Calling him fragile is putting him on a Darius Guice level where he is only playing a few snaps a year and going down for weeks after the first hard tackle. Gibson was a grinder and was getting yards week in and week out before the injury. I wouldn't say the 'slows down late in the season' either because he's only had one season. He missed 2 weeks, had good games in week 16 and 17. For a rookie to put up almost 800 yards rushing is a good year and its promising for the future. 

Definitely a fair point -  I was just sad to see Antonio Gibson miss the two biggest games in the regular season, which, had he been healthy and played, I think we would have won.  Let's see how this season plays out - all the same, if Harris is there at #19, they should definitely consider it.  He and Gibson on the field at the same time? Fugetaboutit!

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9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Then theres guys more in the mold of Gibson and McKissick. Not my ideal chess piece, but one I can get behind: Etienne, Borghi, Felton types. Though Etienne can be an every down back... but his pass pro is the worst I saw in this years class...

THese are the kind of guys I'd want to see us go after if we were to get another back. I think we saw a real different team when Gibson went down but I don't think there's enough plays on offense to feature both Gibson and a Harris, especiallly with the needs on this team. We saw that Barber and JDM aren't set to be lead backs if Gibson goes down. SO I would want somebody who could fill that role on a short tem basis, a Ladell Betts type guy. 

 

But I think that comes secondary to a back who can be a good mix of blocking/catching/and running. Honestly a Chris Thompson type or a Ladell Betts type. Thompson is more of a third down back but I think he could have ben run more and we saw Betts do all three on a decent level. Tory Carter is a name I'm looking at right now as a late round guy who can block and catch and be on the field with Logan Thomas. 

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I wonder if we could land Collins and Bolton with our first two picks, then grab Breven Jordan and Stephenson in the 3rd. That would be something else. 

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

THese are the kind of guys I'd want to see us go after if we were to get another back. I think we saw a real different team when Gibson went down but I don't think there's enough plays on offense to feature both Gibson and a Harris, especiallly with the needs on this team. We saw that Barber and JDM aren't set to be lead backs if Gibson goes down. SO I would want somebody who could fill that role on a short tem basis, a Ladell Betts type guy. 

 

But I think that comes secondary to a back who can be a good mix of blocking/catching/and running. Honestly a Chris Thompson type or a Ladell Betts type. Thompson is more of a third down back but I think he could have ben run more and we saw Betts do all three on a decent level. Tory Carter is a name I'm looking at right now as a late round guy who can block and catch and be on the field with Logan Thomas. 

McKissic is pretty much a CT, I'd think. We need a Leroy Hoard to get us 2 yards when we need 1 and that's not Gibson or McKissic. That's what Barber has been very good at for us.

 

If we can upgrade the Barber spot to someone who can run and pass block, break free sometimes, get 5 yards on 1rst down and catch a pass, it really opens us up, but he has to get 2 yards when we need one.

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14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

McKissic is pretty much a CT, I'd think. We need a Leroy Hoard to get us 2 yards when we need 1 and that's not Gibson or McKissic. That's what Barber has been very good at for us.

 

If we can upgrade the Barber spot to someone who can run and pass block, break free sometimes, get 5 yards on 1rst down and catch a pass, it really opens us up, but he has to get 2 yards when we need one.

Yeah, I've been saying this all season but CT was a good to great pass blocker. McKissic is not....that should be NOT. But the fact that he was healthy all season was something CT never really could do while here. I did not expect him to be healthy back in May, in fact if you were to ask me who I thought wouldn't make the roster with our initial set of RBs it was first Love not being ready, Barber not being good enough and JDM being injured leaving us with Peterson, Guice and Gibson....boy was I wrong. 

 

What I really want is a Mike Allstott type FB, who can be a lead blocker or can pound the ball when you need him to, or he can catch it out of the backfield. 

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21 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

THese are the kind of guys I'd want to see us go after if we were to get another back. I think we saw a real different team when Gibson went down but I don't think there's enough plays on offense to feature both Gibson and a Harris, especiallly with the needs on this team. We saw that Barber and JDM aren't set to be lead backs if Gibson goes down. SO I would want somebody who could fill that role on a short tem basis, a Ladell Betts type guy. 

 

But I think that comes secondary to a back who can be a good mix of blocking/catching/and running. Honestly a Chris Thompson type or a Ladell Betts type. Thompson is more of a third down back but I think he could have ben run more and we saw Betts do all three on a decent level. Tory Carter is a name I'm looking at right now as a late round guy who can block and catch and be on the field with Logan Thomas. 


I don’t really love the redundancy. I feel like getting a guy in a similar mold to the guys we have IS great for depth purposes, but not very good in the sense that if you have three similar players you are forcing at least one of them onto the bench? Why play more than one other than spelling them?

 

And who is getting you the downhill power yards? We’d have to carry four backs every week if we have a Borghi, Gibson, McKissick group. 
 

A guy like Harris (who can do everything) allows you to keep HIM fresh as well as the other two and it frees them up to be off backs, slots or the feature back.


I don’t see the need for the same kind of back. We need a guy who can carry a load. I’d factor that in, too.

 

A bellcow is a MUCH bigger need than another “slash” back.

 

EDIT: I’d put a power back ahead of the redundant back as well. Stevenson and Robinson Jr would be really great additions.

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:


I don’t really love the redundancy. I feel like getting a guy in a similar mold to the guys we have IS great for depth purposes, but not very good in the sense that if you have three similar players you are forcing at least one of them onto the bench? Why play more than one other than spelling them?

 

And who is getting you the downhill power yards? We’d have to carry four backs every week if we have a Borghi, Gibson, McKissick group. 
 

A guy like Harris (who can do everything) allows you to keep HIM fresh as well as the other two and it frees them up to be off backs, slots or the feature back.


I don’t see the need for the same kind of back. We need a guy who can carry a load. I’d factor that in, too.

 

A bellcow is a MUCH bigger need than another “slash” back.

 

EDIT: I’d put a power back ahead of the redundant back as well. Stevenson and Robinson Jr would be really great additions.

I can get that line of thinking but I think it depends on who your back is. I don't know the set of backs in this draft right now but I think of it in terms of AP and Guice vs AP and Bibbs. 

 

AP and Guice are two guys who want the ball and need the ball 20+ times to get into a rhythm. Both can be the bellcow and both can get those yards but its the type of situation that leads to locker room problems (at least it can). AP and Bibbs is what we had in 2018 and they were working well together. Now Gibson is not an AP, but I think Gibson can be the guy to do what Barber is doing right now and if not then if we have a Bibbs type back who is versatile in both running inside and outside then he could do it. 

 

What I don't want is another slow guy with no vision but who can make a -1 yard carry into a 1 yarder, i.e Perine or Fat Rob. Both are decent RBs (Fat Rob more than Perine) but I never liked them as lead backs. Sure if we wanted to have them as our backups to Gibson then yeah but they offered no versatility. 

 

Harris could be the guy and could lead to a good duo so I don't want to sound like I'm totally against him. But I'd be much more interested in a Collins or a versatile LB who can help this run defense. 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And Toney was one of my guys from early this season so I get the love for him on this thread.   I like Rondale Moore too, I think he drops to the 2nd round.  But Elijah Moore gets little love on this thread. I think i actually like Elijah over Rondale.  At a minimum, I think he's right in conversation with the other two.   He's probably the better deep threat than Rondale and Toney and has better hands than them, too.  He's not as elusive as the other two are in open field but he's not a mile away from them on that front, he's elusive enough.  And he looks fast.   He looks to me like Santana Moss Part 2. 

For the first time in my life I believe Washington needs to get a slot guy and you ringing the E Moore bell has me listening. Has he been healthy? That's always the issue with smaller slot guys? I rally have not looked at all at WR's

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

A bellcow is a MUCH bigger need than another “slash” back.

 

EDIT: I’d put a power back ahead of the redundant back as well. Stevenson and Robinson Jr would be really great additions.

I totally onboard with bringing in a big back that has blocking, rushing and receiving skills. It would allow Turner more options on plays almost like having an HBack and more reliable QB protector than the smaller backs.

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I wonder if we could land Collins and Bolton with our first two picks

WOW!!!!!!!!! Now that would be a front 7! I think without a major upgrade at OLB Boltons speed may be exposed but he has all the other tools you hope for in a team leader in the middle. Put Collins on the outside instead of inside and yes. Plus he can attack the QB better on the edge. He is just a guy that can be moved all over. I can't wait to see these two players 40 times.

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2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

For the first time in my life I believe Washington needs to get a slot guy and you ringing the E Moore bell has me listening. Has he been healthy? That's always the issue with smaller slot guys? I rally have not looked at all at WR's

I totally onboard with bringing in a big back that has blocking, rushing and receiving skills. It would allow Turner more options on plays almost like having an HBack and more reliable QB protector than the smaller backs.

WOW!!!!!!!!! Now that would be a front 7! I think without a major upgrade at OLB Boltons speed may be exposed but he has all the other tools you hope for in a team leader in the middle. Put Collins on the outside instead of inside and yes. Plus he can attack the QB better on the edge. He is just a guy that can be moved all over. I can't wait to see these two players 40 times.


I don’t think we need to worry too much about OLB. We don’t play with three backers a lot of the time and if we do Holcomb is more than adequate out there. He does well with all the major categories of what an OLB needs to do. His issue is his downhill play on inside runs from a 4-2 alignment as an ILB.

 

If Holcomb plays a more traditional OLB he goes from being okay to being a very good player.

 

Its the two ILB spots that are the issue in the 4-2. We need two inside (MIKE) type backers. 

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4 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Did I miss something?  Havent seen anything else about Rivera moving on from Kyle because of AGG.  Is there more to this story somewhere?

 

I don't think so... and hiring a GM doesn't mean Kyle is gone, either. 

 

But, as much as I'd dislike it... Ron Rivera wasn't just brought in as the head coach. It appears more and more like he was brought in as the GM/HC for his first year with the role of figuring out the GM position after the 2020 season completed. And much like I've always advocated in advanced professions like the NFL... If you bring in the chef you have to let him pick his own menu.

 

And that doesn't mean that you didn't have some awesome items on the menu before. It just means that the chef is going to want to bring in guys he KNOWS are on the same page.

 

Having said ALL of that: We don't know if Smith would even be gone if a new GM is brought in. There's a chance he stays on in a full player personnel role with a good raise and works in conjunction with a GM + Rivera. I'd actually prefer a model like that, especially with the talk that Smith isn't totally ready to be a GM.

 

It reminds me of a HC -> DC/OC/STC structure and that's one of my absolute favorite coaching set ups. Kyle and Ron are the main drivers and if they disagree, the GM tie breaks. But the experienced GM is also doing his regular duties and helping Smith and throwing ideas his way for personnel.

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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think so... and hiring a GM doesn't mean Kyle is gone, either. 

 

But, as much as I'd dislike it... Ron Rivera wasn't just brought in as the head coach. It appears more and more like he was brought in as the GM/HC for his first year with the role of figuring out the GM position after the 2020 season completed. And much like I've always advocated in advanced professions like the NFL... If you bring in the chef you have to let him pick his own menu.

 

And that doesn't mean that you didn't have some awesome items on the menu before. It just means that the chef is going to want to bring in guys he KNOWS are on the same page.

 

Having said ALL of that: We don't know if Smith would even be gone if a new GM is brought in. There's a chance he stays on in a full player personnel role with a good raise and works in conjunction with a GM + Rivera. I'd actually prefer a model like that, especially with the talk that Smith isn't totally ready to be a GM.

 

It reminds me of a HC -> DC/OC/STC structure and that's one of my absolute favorite coaching set ups. Kyle and Ron are the main drivers and if they disagree, the GM tie breaks. But the experienced GM is also doing his regular duties and helping Smith and throwing ideas his way for personnel.

 

Same, I'd be pleased with that setup.  I was just curious where that random AGG comment came from.  Sounds like it was just something commented on twitter by a fan to John Keim.  

 

Personally ill be rooting for the structure you just outlined and hope that Kyle is retained.  Its also not the end of the world if he moves on, but it does provide create a need vacated by someone above the required level of competency.

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3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah, I've been saying this all season but CT was a good to great pass blocker. McKissic is not....that should be NOT. But the fact that he was healthy all season was something CT never really could do while here. I did not expect him to be healthy back in May, in fact if you were to ask me who I thought wouldn't make the roster with our initial set of RBs it was first Love not being ready, Barber not being good enough and JDM being injured leaving us with Peterson, Guice and Gibson....boy was I wrong. 

 

What I really want is a Mike Allstott type FB, who can be a lead blocker or can pound the ball when you need him to, or he can catch it out of the backfield. 

Daryl Johnson, Allstott, Sellers. Guys who can run super hard and occasionally break off a nice one. Stay in to block like a lineman. Can run block. Can catch the occasional pass to keep a D honest.

 

That would be an awesome addition. It helps keep Gibson clean and opens it up to so many more plays, while still banging out 2 yards when you need one.

1 hour ago, KDawg said:


I don’t think we need to worry too much about OLB. We don’t play with three backers a lot of the time and if we do Holcomb is more than adequate out there. He does well with all the major categories of what an OLB needs to do. His issue is his downhill play on inside runs from a 4-2 alignment as an ILB.

 

If Holcomb plays a more traditional OLB he goes from being okay to being a very good player.

 

Its the two ILB spots that are the issue in the 4-2. We need two inside (MIKE) type backers. 

I do wonder if we are in 4-2 more, because of our personnel as much as the opposing teams.

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5 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I’ve seen multiple mocks with Waddle falling past us.  If he’s there he has to be the pick, right.  Hypothetical: Waddle, Darrisaw, Mac Jones, Collins, Moses, Bateman are all available at 19.  You take Waddle, right?  Hopefully this is a Jon Allen situation. 

It’s such a deep receiver draft and we have enough ammo to move up or at least get someone lethal on day 2. Tough call.

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14 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I’ve seen multiple mocks with Waddle falling past us.  If he’s there he has to be the pick, right.  Hypothetical: Waddle, Darrisaw, Mac Jones, Collins, Moses, Bateman are all available at 19.  You take Waddle, right?  Hopefully this is a Jon Allen situation. 

 

Yes, but frankly I think it depends on the off-season prior to Pick #19.

 

If we have gone out and signed Curtis Samuel to a $10m/APY deal ... I think you absolutely take Waddle and just have an absolutely stacked lineup. But if you have inked Robinson, Golladay or Chris Godwin, I think you have to go elsewhere.

 

The Cowboys had the luxury of having a franchise QB. We do not.

 

And that brings me back to the crux of my off-season argument. If you're going to BUILD the offensive weapons, it SHOULD be through the draft unless you can get a Stafford or Dak in free agency/via trade. Because you don't go sign Allen Robinson and draft Jaylen Waddle to pair with Terry McLaurin when your QB is Taylor Heinecke.

 

Now, trade a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year for Stafford, I doubt you have the $$ to go sign a premier WR, so I would use pick #19 on either LT or WR, and try to land a tier-2 WR free agent like Curtis Samuel to round out the group.

 

Re-sign Scherff, Darby

Trade for Stafford

Sign a 2nd tier WR and premier FA LB that fits the system

Draft WR, OT, TE, RB, DBs with your remaining picks.

 

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And to clarify my previous post, I am advocating for the route of taking a WR at #19 (Waddle) over signing Allen Robinson. While I think 2020 showed us how quickly we can be a competitor, we are still a solid QB away from legitimate competing ... I think we can repeat our 2020 season in 2021 with just about anyone at QB. And we can improve the surrounding cast organically and surgically with a combination of "good" free agent signings and good drafting.

 

Again, the QB situation drives everything. And because getting a QB could mean losing a draft pick and/or a chunk of our FA spending pot, it's just hard to pencil out even a "mock off-season" let alone a mock-draft.

 

Waddle at #19 is very likely the BPA. And I probably draft him there 95% of the time ... the 5% accounting for already having Robinson/Godwin/Golladay under contract.

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4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Waddle at #19 is very likely the BPA. And I probably draft him there 95% of the time ... the 5% accounting for already having Robinson/Godwin/Golladay under contract.

I would be pretty excited for a Waddle pick. I think he fits the team need of PR/KR slot WR so badly. He’s a Alabama guy which we clearly like and I think he could contribute right away on ST while he keeps developing as a WR. I also see very little bust factor, because we could bring him along slowly in specific packages if he struggles early.

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Still tinkering around with some TDN drafts. I run a few a day and the ones I like/feel good about I feel compelled to post. Usually I get frustrated around R4 and start over.

 

The "we don't have a QB going into the draft" version.

1. Trey Lance, QB NDSU

2. Jackson Carman, OT Clemson

3. Sage Surratt, WR Wake Forest

3. Parris Ford, S Pitt

4. Chubba Hubbard, RB Oklahoma State

5. Elerson Smith, Edge Northern Iowa

7. Josh Jobe, CB Alabama

7. Paddy Fisher, LB Northwestern

 

This is kind of the BPA across the Board with a focus on offense draft. I would also say there's a 30-40% chance Lance is there at #19 each time. Jones is always there and sometimes even available at #51. I would presume doing this draft ahead of Free Agency would have the team targeting WR and LB pretty heavily and prioritzing the signing of Scherff and Darby. I'd be pretty pumped for this draft.

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the "trade 2021 and 2022 2nd round picks for Matt Stafford draft"

*Trade down in R1 and add a 3rd*

1. Kadarius Toney, WR Florida

3. Walker Little, OT Stanford

3. Chazz Surratt, LB UNC

3. Trey Sermon, RB Ohio State

4. Sage Surratt, WR Wake Forest

5. Tre Mc'Kitty, TE Georgia

7. Josh Jobe, CB Alabama

7. Xavier Thomas, Edge Clemson

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Pass Rush: 5th

There's no denying the amount of depth and talent Washington has on its defensive line. With weapons like Young, Montez Sweat, Ryan Kerrigan, Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne, Washington ended the year with PFF's fifth best pass-rush defense in the league.

"Chase Young put up an 87.1 PFF grade on the year that trailed only 2011 Aldon Smith, 2011 Von Miller and 2019 Nick Bosa in terms of overall grades for rookie edge defenders in the past decade," said PFF's Ben Linsey. "That said, the best and most consistent pass rusher for Washington throughout the year was Jonathan Allen on the interior. Allen's 17.0% pass-rush win rate was a top-10 mark at the position -- he was a much more disruptive force than his two sacks would suggest."

 

Offensive Line: 6th

Before the season started, PFF ranked Washington's offensive line 29th in the league. After steady performances from Roullier, Morgan Moses, Brandon Scherff, Wes Schweitzer and Cornelius Lucas, this dominant offensive line found themselves as the sixth-best offensive line in the league.

"The biggest question mark coming into the year surrounded who would win the left tackle job. Geron Christian won the job and started there for six games before being placed on Injured Reserve with a knee injury. Still, his replacement, Cornelius Lucas, actually provided some stability at the position with a 78.3 overall grade and an 83.1 grade in pass protection that ranked 11th at the position over the regular season," said PFF's Ben Linsey. "Solid play from Lucas and Wes Schweitzer on the left side, paired with top-10 grades from each of Chase Roullier, Brandon Scherff and Morgan Moses at the other starting spots, resulted in a much-improved group from a season ago."

 

Secondary: 7th

Before the season, PFF ranked Washington's secondary 27th. And while Washington had troubles with its secondary early in the year, multiple switches led to a solid group consisting of Curl, Reaves, Kendall Fuller and Ronald Darby. As the 2020 season came to a close, Washington's secondary rose to the top as PFF ranked the position group aseventh in the league.

"Ronald Darby led Washington's secondary in his first season with the team, and he was wildly inconsistent — a trend throughout his NFL career. Darby allowed the second-most deep passing yards in coverage among all defensive backs (328), but at the same time, he led the league in forced incompletions (20)," said PFF's Ben Linsey. "In his return to Washington, D.C., Kendall Fuller played predominantly on the outside for the first time in his career. And it went quite well. He allowed only 0.84 yards per coverage snap on the outside, ranking 15th among 90 qualifiers."

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And finally, the veteran journeyman Free Agent kick the can down the road option ... where we sign someone like Winston or Darnold (if cut) or Mariota (if cut) or Tyrod to compete with Allen/Heinecke and use our FA $$ primarily on re-signing Scherff and Darby and going out and signing a legit LB for the defense and a WR (not one of the Top 3 but someone like Curtis Samuel or Will Fuller) ... leaving no major holes but needed upgrades in the draft. Let's assume we sign/re-sign: RG Brandon Scherff, CB Ronald Darby, WR Curtis Samuel, TE Gerald Everett, S Eric Reid, LB Jayon Brown

 

1. Christian Darrisaw, OT Virginia Tech

2. Rondale Moore, WR Purdue

3. Parris Ford, S Pittsburgh

3. Baron Browning, LB Ohio State

4. Justyn Ross, WR Clemson

5. Trey Sermon, RB Ohio State

7. Josh Jobe, CB Alabama

7. Xavier Thomas, Edge Clemson

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