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14 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Mike and Kyle did the impossible, they designed an offense that made Robert Griffin a very good QB for a year. But he didn't let Griff do what he wanted, that was Daniel Snyder who empowered his QB to the point where he demanded plays be taken out of the playbook, the only plays they designed that he could actually execute.  

 

As for leaving him in while injured against the Hawks we've seen plenty of injured QBs play. Rivers played with a torn ACL, Leftwhich in college was literally carried to the LOS by teammates and nobody criticized the coach. And this was a college player.  This was a 7 point playoff game, the coach was told by the player that he was OK and by the medical staff who said his limping was a result of the brace.

 

If Shanahan had gone to a team that did not have Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen he would have had different results.  

What Mike and Kyle did was rip off the Baylor playbook. Briles was terrific at creating an offense that catered to his QB's strength. He did it with RG3, Bryce Petty and he did it with Seth Russell. They knew it was going to be a one-year run with that offense and in the long-run it was going to be exactly how it turned out. We all saw RG3 in that Seattle game and knowing RG3's strengths and tendency to run, to not take him out was simply negligence. Anyone with an eyeball could have seen the limping wasn't a result of a brace. Mike simply didn't care about his QB to worry about the longterm damage because that's not the QB he wanted to play anyways.

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13 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

What Mike and Kyle did was rip off the Baylor playbook. Briles was terrific at creating an offense that catered to his QB's strength. He did it with RG3, Bryce Petty and he did it with Seth Russell. They knew it was going to be a one-year run with that offense and in the long-run it was going to be exactly how it turned out. We all saw RG3 in that Seattle game and knowing RG3's strengths and tendency to run, to not take him out was simply negligence. Anyone with an eyeball could have seen the limping wasn't a result of a brace. Mike simply didn't care about his QB to worry about the longterm damage because that's not the QB he wanted to play anyways.

Every coach has taken things from other coaches. To believe they believed it was only a one year run and Griff would turn into a diva is nonsense.

 

So no credence what so ever that the coach was told by the player and the medical staff that he was OK?  It's OK for a college coach to play an injured player, or an NFL coach for that matter, but not ours?  Griff got hurt due to a low snap, the center has avoided any criticism and it all fell on the coach because of a bad snap. 

 

I understand my position is not popular, and I don't feel like spending the day defending it here. But I stand by my position. 

 

 

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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I'll just throw this out there but RG3 did not suffer a tragic injury; he was damaged goods. 

 

Bust from day 1.

 

You can't play in the NFL if you can't protect yourself. 

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

Have we really got to the "lets rehash the arguments about RG3" portion of this thread?

It only took about 800 pages (at least on my web page settings).

 

But you had to know it would happen...

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1 minute ago, Mooka said:

I'll just throw this out there but RG3 did not suffer a tragic injury; he was damaged goods. 

 

Bust from day 1.

 

You can't play in the NFL if you can't protect yourself. 

 

Agree with the protection part, it always amazed me that he didn't know how to slide. Who doesn't know how to slide?  

 

But he was certainly worth taking a shot on. When he was drafted I liked him because unlike other mobile QBs of the day he hit what he was throwing at, he threw a great deep ball.  But sadly he never seemed to develop.  

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39 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Every coach has taken things from other coaches. To believe they believed it was only a one year run and Griff would turn into a diva is nonsense.

 

So no credence what so ever that the coach was told by the player and the medical staff that he was OK?  It's OK for a college coach to play an injured player, or an NFL coach for that matter, but not ours?  Griff got hurt due to a low snap, the center has avoided any criticism and it all fell on the coach because of a bad snap. 

 

I understand my position is not popular, and I don't feel like spending the day defending it here. But I stand by my position. 

 

 

Ask 100 injured players if they’re ok to go back in and 100 will say yes. As for our medical staff, are you really still accepting that they had the players best interest in mind even with everything that’s happened over the last few years? Griff got hurt because he was a reckless qb that didn’t want to put in the requisite work. He wanted to a superhero instead of a quarterback. He wanted to be the guy that singlehandedly leads a team to the promised land. He truly thought he was a savior because everyone treated him as such.


That particular style of pistol RPO offense was never going to be sustainable. athleticism was only going to get you so far and we saw what happened the next year when they tried to instill a more traditional offense. That’s my only criticism of Kyle and the coaching staff in that no one bothered to teach him how to be a professional quarterback. RG3 was inevitably dead in the water in Washington long before the writing was on the wall.
 

And yeah, who would have believed the guy who trademarked “no pressure no diamonds” before playing a game would be a diva??

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32 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Agree with the protection part, it always amazed me that he didn't know how to slide. Who doesn't know how to slide?  

 

It was odd.  Kind of a catch 22.  You want him to protect himself... but he looks so awkward when trying to slide that you worry he is going to injure himself while doing it.

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2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

The Colt Cult people, I kinda got it.  You wanted to see a QB from a school that wasn't a football power turn into a legit starting QB.  It was fun to dream on, but people got carried away.  

That wasn't it at all.

 

They were either rabid Hawaii fans, or massive anti-JC people, or just people who took the other side in order to stir up trouble.  For the most part, they did not bring anything useful to this community, as they were divisive and were bullies.  For the most part.  There were a few notable exceptions who contributed greatly to the board in a lot of positive ways.

 

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Like every other play caller we've ever had, he was "terrible", "doesn't call plays to his QB's strengths", etc.

Yes, but we've been right about the rest of them.  We were wrong about Kyle.  (And when I say "we" I actually exclude myself because I was one of his and Shanahan's most vocal supporters, much to the detriment of my overall health.

 

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I remember a few who lost their minds after every game and demanded some sort of personal vengeance because we didn't repeat the same success in 2013, but for the most part I saw educated criticisms regarding who was to blame. 

Remember GHH?  He might still be banging around in the soccer threads... That was not educated criticism.  And it took over the board.  

 

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

What Mike and Kyle did was rip off the Baylor playbook. Briles was terrific at creating an offense that catered to his QB's strength. He did it with RG3, Bryce Petty and he did it with Seth Russell. They knew it was going to be a one-year run with that offense and in the long-run it was going to be exactly how it turned out. We all saw RG3 in that Seattle game and knowing RG3's strengths and tendency to run, to not take him out was simply negligence. Anyone with an eyeball could have seen the limping wasn't a result of a brace. Mike simply didn't care about his QB to worry about the longterm damage because that's not the QB he wanted to play anyways.

That's poppy****. The offense we ran actually wasn't the Baylor offense.  It was the Shanahan office with a whole lot of college window-dressing.  It was the same zone-run scheme they still run, they just got to it differently.  What they did add is the read-option component in a more meaningful way.  

 

If you listen to Cooley, who played in the offense in 2012, it was basically a simplified version of the Shanahan offense, added some read-option looks, and a lot of 1-read and GO concepts.  

 

And FWIW, Kyle is still considered one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. 

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Have we really got to the "lets rehash the arguments about RG3" portion of this thread?

I mean, it's a nice distraction from rehashing the Haskins arguments.  Though I prefer rehashing the Colt Brennan vs.  JC arguments more.  It's like a warm blanket, just comforting... :P 

 

We do need to rehash the Rex vs. John Beck here shortly.  May Gus Frerotte vs. John Friesz vs. Heath Shuler?  The great ex-gator QB competition of 2002. Brunnell vs. Ramsey might have some legs left in it.  Brad Johnson vs. Jeff George anybody?

 

Maybe we can even go WAY back and resurrect the "I Like Sonny!" vs. the "I Like Billy!"

 

Or Jay Schroeder vs. Doug Williams.  I think we could sink our teeth into that one.  

 

Grasping for straws here....

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42 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And FWIW, Kyle is still considered one of the best offensive minds in the NFL. 

I've always liked Kyle and felt he was severely limited by RG3's game smarts and unwillingness to use his greatest weapon - his legs. I don't blame him for what happened nearly as much as I blame Mike and RG3 himself.

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40 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yes, but we've been right about the rest of them.  We were wrong about Kyle.  (And when I say "we" I actually exclude myself because I was one of his and Shanahan's most vocal supporters, much to the detriment of my overall health.

Sean McVay would like to have a word with you.

 

Maybe not you personally, but a lot of folks used to beat up McVay.  The level of revisionist history on this site after McVay splashed in his 1st year with the Rams was epic.  I recall a ton of whining about McVay's play-calling.  I also recall Cooley going on and on, well before McVay was the tits, about how smart McVay was and that he knew he was going to be a head coach soon.  I remember a lot of folks poo-pooing on those bold statements as well.

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3 hours ago, MartinC said:

Have we really got to the "lets rehash the arguments about RG3" portion of this thread?

 

I'll help the discussion out: 

 

Dwayne Haskins has a better chance of being a franchise QB then RG3 ever did.

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sean McVay would like to have a word with you.

 

Maybe not you personally, but a lot of folks used to beat up McVay.  The level of revisionist history on this site after McVay splashed in his 1st year with the Rams was epic.  I recall a ton of whining about McVay's play-calling.  I also recall Cooley going on and on, well before McVay was the tits, about how smart McVay was and that he knew he was going to be a head coach soon.  I remember a lot of folks poo-pooing on those bold statements as well.

Yep and that's why I never listen to any of the fans who whine about playcalling. Most just don't have a clue. They're the same people who hated Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay who are probably the two best offensive minds in football right now.

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If you look at how Russell Wilson plays to this day, it's a pretty good indication that RG3 could have had a long NFL career had he done the other things that it takes to develop in the NFL.  Wilson is running, in motion, scrambling, making throws on the move constantly and he is nearly a decade into his career.   It wasn't about Robert running.  It was about him believing his own hype way too early on and thinking the work off the field was done with combined with his inability to protect himself on the field.  

 

Also, the play everyone seems to forget in that Seattle playoff game was the hit Robert took on the 2nd TD pass, because it was off camera and was never shown on replay.   After that hit, he was injured, period.  The biggest tell was either the following drive or the drive after when he dropped back and Garcon had beaten Sherman down the sideline and Robert could not plant on his knee and he underthrew Garcon so bad that Sherman got the INT.  This was also the infamous face mask dragging play of frustration by Garcon, probably due to being so wide open for a walk in TD had the throw been made.   To me, that is where Shanahan should have had Kirk warming up.  I honestly believe if Cousins comes in to play the 2nd half, he is able to weather the storm and they go onto win a close game.  It still took Seattle awhile to come back and eventually take the lead.

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3 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

If you look at how Russell Wilson plays to this day, it's a pretty good indication that RG3 could have had a long NFL career had he done the other things that it takes to develop in the NFL.  Wilson is running, in motion, scrambling, making throws on the move constantly and he is nearly a decade into his career.   It wasn't about Robert running.  It was about him believing his own hype way too early on and thinking the work off the field was done with combined with his inability to protect himself on the field.  

 

Also, the play everyone seems to forget in that Seattle playoff game was the hit Robert took on the 2nd TD pass, because it was off camera and was never shown on replay.   After that hit, he was injured, period.  The biggest tell was either the following drive or the drive after when he dropped back and Garcon had beaten Sherman down the sideline and Robert could not plant on his knee and he underthrew Garcon so bad that Sherman got the INT.  This was also the infamous face mask dragging play of frustration by Garcon, probably due to being so wide open for a walk in TD had the throw been made.   To me, that is where Shanahan should have had Kirk warming up.  I honestly believe if Cousins comes in to play the 2nd half, he is able to weather the storm and they go onto win a close game.  It still took Seattle awhile to come back and eventually take the lead.


His ability to capture the edge in RPO/RO situations (running in a straight line) is still nothing like I’ve seen and that includes Lamar Jackson. This really featured his world class track speed. 

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Some haskins fan on twitter seriously just said to me: “haskins was benched because he wasn’t winning and other players “deserve to win”. We play horribly against the rams and lose to the giants (a game we likely win with haskins) 

 

.....ummm....what? This fool thinks we would’ve won that game against the giants with haskins. 

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14 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sean McVay would like to have a word with you.

 

Maybe not you personally, but a lot of folks used to beat up McVay.  The level of revisionist history on this site after McVay splashed in his 1st year with the Rams was epic.  I recall a ton of whining about McVay's play-calling.  I also recall Cooley going on and on, well before McVay was the tits, about how smart McVay was and that he knew he was going to be a head coach soon.  I remember a lot of folks poo-pooing on those bold statements as well.

Not me. I was a vocal proponent of firing Jay and promoting McVay after the 2016 season.  I always thought the 2016 offense was outstanding, and McVay was a really big part of that.  

 

 

10 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Kyle Shanahan is 27-28 as a HC with a couple historic big-game chokes on his resume.

 

You can have him.

He made the SB twice, once as a coordinator the other time as a HC, with Matt Ryan and Jimmy Garapolo.  

 

His record is indicative in some ways of taking over a terrible team, and then having his starting QB go down early in his second season.

 

He's a really good coach.  He's also an arrogant ass.  With the million injuries to key players, the 49ers are still competitive this year.  

 

I really like Ron.  But Kyle is a hell of a coach.  I'd take him in a heart beat.  

 

He did choke away the SB with Atlanta, but I put that on Quinn as well.  The HC has GOT to tell the OC to run the damn ball in that situation.  It's game management.  Kyle blew it for sure as the play caller.  But Quinn should have saved him from himself.

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10 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Kyle Shanahan is 27-28 as a HC with a couple historic big-game chokes on his resume.

 

You can have him.

 

Inherited a 2-14 team and had them in the Super Bowl in his 3rd year.      Ummm yeah, I would take him in a heart beat.  But kudos on your ability to look up his record and draw a silly conclusion.

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