FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Of the things we can depend on ... perhaps chiefly among them ... DH will be as prepared as circumstances allow; he won’t be the most prepared QB on the team until he’s gets experience, but if he’s able to find his way through the first couple years, no QB will ever be more prepared for a game than our guy. 

 

He made some rough throws, but they were the right ones. He missed some easy ones, and his reaction was always confidently critical & acutely aware of the issue.... and, perhaps more importantly, that he needed to communicate that the fault was on him to his teammates. DH is the kind of guy teammates want to battle for ..... it feels almost a shame that Trent won’t be leading Dwayne’s supporting cast for years to come.

 

 

[NoCalMike]

The other thing people have to consider is that he wasn't drafted onto a team without any other QB options.  He isn't getting the 1st team reps that some rookies get who are drafted onto teams where they are guaranteed to start from Day 1.   I have zero issue with slowly bringing him along until the team overall shows on the field and the W/L column that they need to press the Haskins button.   I'd rather allow him to learn and get comfortable so he is more prepared and ready for the NFL when he finally gets in there. 

[Mr. Sinister]

10 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Hmmmm....

 

 

 

Im curious if that means that Cooley likes what he sees from Haskins, or that Keenum and the team are in over their heads.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

10 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

That **** hit him in the facemask from 55 yards out lol. Crazy

 

It almost stuck in his facemask. What a throw!  Hit him....

 

[dyst]

Haskins will have to do this on his own. Jay is not the coach that will adjust his playbook to his strengths.

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Im curious if that means that Cooley likes what he sees from Haskins, or that Keenum and the team are in over their heads.

Both, heard Cooley got critical of Haskins as game went on, so it's not like hes "taking over"

[RandyHolt]

Case cannot beat out Colt. Colt cannot stay healthy. Round and round we go....

 

Seeing Haskins this year seems all but inevitable.  If not on his obvious talents and **** eating grin his deep ball puts on Jay's face, but based on the other 2s collective futility.  Those that want Haskins to sit the year need to be prepared to be disappointed. If it ruins him it ruins him but I think we will find he gives Jay his best chance at winning, but it will require Jay to adjust the playbook. 

 

I cannot recall ever seeing Jay smile that big in the middle of a game.  And yes it was probably because of the protection call.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

45 minutes ago, dyst said:

Haskins will have to do this on his own. Jay is not the coach that will adjust his playbook to his strengths.

I keep seeing this narrative that all a coach has to do is scale down the playbook and things will work themselves out.  It was blatantly obvious that Jay scaled down the playbook that Josh Johnson was already familiar with.  I don't get this idea that Jay won't budge on his playbook.  I've seen folks cite examples of prehistoric coaches (no harm meant, Coach Gibbs) simplifying and adjusting their offense and being successful with average at best QBs.  Is it fair to say that was a bit easier to do back in the 70's and 80's vs. the salary cap era?  It's not just the salary cap, but all the modern advancements at the hands of every coach and player, not to mention the ridiculous talent level and athletic ability of the average player in this day and age.

 

When the coach/play-caller simplifies everything on offense, it also simplifies defending it for the opposition.  The reason all coaches don't want to adjust and simplify their offense is for that very reason.

 

I'm not against scaling down the playbook and playing to a QB's strength by any means, but to act like there are no pitfalls to doing so is disingenuous.  When you have poor protection and a lack of playmakers around you, it's incredibly more difficult to succeed in a simplified system.  

 

I get it - we all want to see Haskins play.  Selfishly, for my own entertainment, as I have no desire to watch Case or Colt.  I get that the best place to learn is through live fire, but I'm not sure trotting him out there early in the season with a simplified game plan is going to render positive results for his future development.

[JSSkinz]

I cant look at the way his supporting cast played in that 2nd half and put that on Haskins.  If you go through the sequence of plays in each of those drives he was put in some tough situations.  I'm not saying he has no accountability but he's playing with the 3's and 4's when things started to get fugly.

 

He had 6 drives after he threw the touchdown.

 

On the first 3 drives after he threw the TD he had nice passes on 1st down, 2 of those 3 passes were caught for 1st downs and one was dropped by Sprinkle which would have been a 10 yard gain.

 

On the 4th drive, we start with a 1 yard run by Perrine and then the very catchable but incomplete mid range deep ball on 2nd down.

On the 5th drive, we start with a -5 yard rush

On the 6th drive it was a mess at that point.

 

 

 

1st Drive

1st play - Incomeplete to Sprinkle (Sprinkle dropped it for a 10 yard gain)
2nd Play - Complete to Kidsey foor 7 yards
3rd play - Sacked on 3rd and 3

2nd Drive (1st drive of 2nd half)

1st play complete pass foor 15 yards
2nd play Perinee rush for -2 yards
3rd play Perine rush foor no gain
4th play False start
5th play 3rd and 17 throws incomplete pass

3rd Drive

1st Play - 11 yard completion
2nd Play - 2 yard rush
3rd Play - Incomplete pass (This was the mid range deep ball that really could have been caught)
4th Play - BS fumble call on 3rd and 8

 

4th Drive

1st Play - Perine for 1 yard
2nd Play - Incomplete pass
3rd Play - Incomplete Pass on 3rd and 9

 

5th Drive

1st Play - -5 yard rush
2nd Play - OPI on Harmon
3rd Play - --1 yard rush
4th Play - 16 yard completion on 3rd and 26, holding call on us declined

 

6th Drive

1st Play - Incomplete pass
2nd Play - 6 yard completion
3rd Play - Sacked on 3rd and 4

 

 

[RandyHolt]

We saw a simplified playbook for RG3 and we got into the playoffs. 

 

It speaks volumes, since we can barely make it in with our full playbook. 

 

Usually dialing back the playbook involves more QBs runs.  The only reason coaches don't do that all the time is because the QB is too slow or the obvious, injury risk.  So basically letting a QB run the ball is a successful play in the NFL in part since defenses just don't see it very often. So facing a QB with wheels and a coach willing to let him run, doesn't that add to the number of things a DC has to game plan for? It doesn't sound easier on the D to me, in part since someone is now relegated to spy duty.

 

Parcells once revealed his game day playbook only included a surprising low number of plays - IIRC he said half of 75.  A coach would be well served to scale back the number of plays during the week based on how practice goes, new players on the team, rookie QB, etc.   You can always run the same plays to the opposite side. A QB doesn't need to memorize and ace 800 plays to win on a Sunday.  I am convinced.

 

I wonder if Haskins and our offense would be well served to have an opening script. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I think the difference with RG3 though wasn't so much a simplified defense but the RO was mostly a new offense for the NFL that threw teams off.  Also, the nature of the RO offense would freeze the pass rush and in effect protect RG3 some in the pocket.

 

Reading all the stuff on Haskins, it seems like concern #1 is can Haskins call all the protections right now to protect himself?  Jay said in the MMQ article I posted yesterday that the protections are vast and QBs often have to audible into them to protect themselves.  I am gathering its a key thing they want to see Haskins master.  When Jay is asked about Haskins, protection keeps coming up -- he called the right protection, wrong one, etc. 

 

I was watching Game Pass with Andrew Luck recently and he talked about how his coordinators spend more time at times focusing on protections than the play design-calls.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

We saw a simplified playbook for RG3 and we got into the playoffs. 

It's a bit different with a mobile QB, that's primary strength is his wheels.  That was also the birth of the read option in the NFL and defenses weren't prepared for it.  

 

Haskins is your prototypical pocket quarterback.  It's going to take some time.

[GardenStateSkins]

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's a bit different with a mobile QB, that's primary strength is his wheels.  That was also the birth of the read option in the NFL and defenses weren't prepared for it.  

 

Haskins is your prototypical pocket quarterback.  It's going to take some time.

Especially with this line! He very well may take a beating, especially from the left side.  

[RandyHolt]

25 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's a bit different with a mobile QB, that's primary strength is his wheels.  That was also the birth of the read option in the NFL and defenses weren't prepared for it.  

 

Haskins is your prototypical pocket quarterback.  It's going to take some time.

 

Shouldn't it have taken defensive  coordinators only a week or 2 to learn how to defend RO, and stuff RG3?  All they needed to do was watch some college games.

 

Lamar Jackson and his wheels got Baltimore into the playoffs. Its not just adding a college concept. It's using the skills of the QB, catering to his strengths, and kind of getting out of the way. A simple offense e.g. just letting the QB improvise does not equate to losses IMO.

 

I think Haskins has better wheels than we have been led to believe in large part because of his own desire to be a pocket passer. He doesn't tuck and run. He knows what he needs to be to survive long term.  All it takes is a few designed runs out of Haskins to give DCs fits.  I feel like as fans we have all HATED seeing a QB scramble/run killing our team. Its a terribly effective play.  Wilson in Seattle is a weekly nightmare for DCs and DBs. Not to mention DL and LBs.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

The first thing Jay Gruden & the Redskins should be doing this morning is signing not one but 2 quarterbacks to the roster. With that offensive line we need 4 capable QB's ready to go when they start falling like dominoes. And they will fall like dominoes you can bet on that

 

  Not all that thrilled with Haskins performance last night. He had the one big time throw which was very impressive but other then that.... Its only his second game  and that supporting cast who is on the field with him was 3rd to 4th string level talent so...... ..

 

  I'm hoping Haskins gets the start next week, I want to see what he can do with AP in the backfield and our #1 and 2's at WR.

[DJHJR86]

1 great throw by Haskins doesn't magically mean he's ready or is turning a corner.  With that being said, if Keenum hasn't distanced himself from Haskins with regards to the starting job, then Haskins should be starting week 1 without question.  

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

47 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I cant look at the way his supporting cast played in that 2nd half and put that on Haskins.  If you go through the sequence of plays in each of those drives he was put in some tough situations.  I'm not saying he has no accountability but he's playing with the 3's and 4's when things started to get fugly.

 

 

 

 

With Perine in the backfield its basically a loss of down & no gain, maybe even a loss every time he touches the ball, i agree with your assessment 100%

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't start Haskins until Week 4. The first three games are against the Eagles, Cowboys, and Bears, three dynamic pass rushes. They'll destroy the kid. But his first start being at Giants Stadium, the revenge factor, that could work in our favor.

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

With Perine in the backfield its basically a loss of down & no gain, maybe even a loss every time he touches the ball, i agree with your assessment 100%

 

I really dont know what Gruden sees in the guy. He loves him. But I very rarely see positive plays from the dude. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Shouldn't it have taken defensive  coordinators only a week or 2 to learn how to defend RO, and stuff RG3?  All they needed to do was watch some college games

Griffin was a unique talent in that he could do two things really well: run like the wind & throw it a mile.  Coordinators were not prepared for that at all.  Some were though, as they lost quite a few games that season.

 

But while on the subject of Griffin - I recall Jay simplifying to the point of completely dumbing down his offense for him.  The results were atrocious.

 

9 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Lamar Jackson and his wheels got Baltimore into the playoffs. Its not just adding a college concept. It's using the skills of the QB, catering to his strengths, and kind of getting out of the way.

 

Lamar Jackson and Dwayne are damn near polar opposite QBs though.  The Ravens aren't asking Lamar to throw it, nor should the Skins be asking Dwayne to run it.  

 

13 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I think Haskins has better wheels than we have been led to believe in large part because of his own desire to be a pocket passer. He doesn't tuck and run. He knows what he needs to be to survive long term.  All it takes is a few designed runs out of Haskins to give DCs fits.  I feel like as fans we have all HATED seeing a QB scramble/run killing our team. Its a terribly effective play.  Wilson in Seattle is a weekly nightmare for DCs and DBs. Not to mention DL and LBs.

DC's aren't going to stay up at night wondering how to stop Haskins on a designed run.  He's not terribly lumbering but he's far from Lamar Jackson.  As far from Lamar Jackson, as he is from Dwayne as a passer.

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

“We should have our rookie 1st round QB doing a bunch of read-option because look how good it turned out for RG3!”, said no one ever.

[MisterPinstripe]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Griffin was a unique talent in that he could do two things really well: run like the wind & throw it a mile.  Coordinators were not prepared for that at all.  Some were though, as they lost quite a few games that season.

 

But while on the subject of Griffin - I recall Jay simplifying to the point of completely dumbing down his offense for him.  The results were atrocious.

 

That wasnt really on the offense though. We were scoring lots of points even in those loses, our defense just couldnt stop anyone. The first 4 losses we scored 28, 31, 17, and 24. 17 wasnt great, but in the other games you couldnt say the issue was the offense. Our first 9 games that year the defense gave up: 32, 31, 38, 22, 24, 26, 27, 27, and 21.  the winning streak wasnt much better with the defense giving up 6, 31, 16, 28, 21, 20, and 18. We had to score a lot of points to win games that year.

 

I dont want to rush Haskins, but he seems to have the mental fortitude to withstand bad games as long as we can protect him. We need to get him as many reps as possible to get him ready. I think the only thing that should keep him off the field is if he isnt able to set protections at the line well enough yet to protect himself.

[Veryoldschool]

My thoughts on week #2:

 

Positives:

 

1.  Haskins seems to know what he is doing, I'm not sure that is the case but it looks that way.  It appears to me Haskins is understanding what he sees and what he should do.  I am not sure from just watching him but it looks like he gets what he is seeing which is the most important attribute for a QB.

 

2.  Haskins is composed and shows poise and presence.  He seems unflustered and is calm and patient in the pocket but decisive when he wants to run or toss the ball away.

 

3.  Good mobility.  I didn't expect this at all the media reports suggested a flat-footed lumbering stiff whereas I think Haskins has above average mobility and he can throw 

 

3.  Good arm.  Haskins throws nice outs and deep balls.  Some inconsistency and the midrange throws over the middle weren't as impressive.

 

Negatives:

 

1.  Aforementioned inconsistency due to casual mechanics.

 

2.  Inexperienced so he is still learning how to call protections so vulnerable.   

 

3.  Unknowns.  I would expect he has other issues but I haven't seen enough to know them.

 

Overall early assessment:

 

I am favorably impressed with Haskins thus far.  I would be even more enthused if this wasn't the Daniel Snynder's Redskins.   I expect them to screw up so I'm not confident in what I'm seeing but thus far it looks they drafted a guy who is capable of developing into a competent NFL starting QB.  Astounding...

 

I am still in the let's sit him down for the year and let him learn as they did in KC camp but his early performances have more hopeful and I am curious to see him play with the 1s.  Gruden and staff clearly have a better handle on what Haskins understands and needs to learn than us but I have to believe they are encouraged.

 

 

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

I really dont know what Gruden sees in the guy. He loves him. But I very rarely see positive plays from the dude. 

 

I personally believe Jay's trying to showcase him up to trade him; and Perine is not helping his case.  Anyone can see that Perine is a stiff RB with lousy vision who can't run over men as he did college kids.  He should just be cut.  He's Matt Jones 2.0.