FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[ThomasRoane]

I'd like to see Haskins play with the one's vs Atlanta.  If he can move the ball and continue to minimize TO's then I'm for rolling him out week one vs philly.  I don't see anything out of Case that makes me feel like the Redskins offense can be a consistent threat.  The long ball that only Haskins can provide consistently (out of all the QB's I've seen) would compliment Jay's plan to play great defense, run the ball, and take some shots down field. 

 

Haskins can make a defense play honest.  Safeties will have to provide some deep help so that will keep them from crowding the LOS.  Haskins doesn't have the footwork (yet) to maneuver adeptly in the pocket but he has the size to hang in there and still make plays.  Plus, I think a good showing out of him vs the falcons 1's would help to convince 71 to get over his medical issues; for some guaranteed $ of course.  

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

I'd like to see Haskins play with the one's vs Atlanta.  If he can move the ball and continue to minimize TO's then I'm for rolling him out week one vs philly.  I don't see anything out of Case that makes me feel like the Redskins offense can be a consistent threat.  The long ball that only Haskins can provide consistently (out of all the QB's I've seen) would compliment Jay's plan to play great defense, run the ball, and take some shots down field. 

 

Haskins can make a defense play honest.  Safeties will have to provide some deep help so that will keep them from crowding the LOS.  Haskins doesn't have the footwork (yet) to maneuver adeptly in the pocket but he has the size to hang in there and still make plays.  Plus, I think a good showing out of him vs the falcons 1's would help to convince 71 to get over his medical issues; for some guaranteed $ of course.  

Agreed. Let him play at least a half with the starters against Atlanta. And I mean the actual STARTERS, whoever you think the best players are, so actually have guys like Reed, McLauren, Richardson etc. out there.

 

If he completely stinks up the joint then fine, go with Keenum until Haskins shows some improvement. But right now there is no real discernible difference between the two(Keenum is proven to be turnover prone)but at least Haskins is young and has that arm that can make the occasional big throw that could maybe win us(or keep us in)a game.

[Veryoldschool]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Agreed. Let him play at least a half with the starters against Atlanta. And I mean the actual STARTERS, whoever you think the best players are, so actually have guys like Reed, McLauren, Richardson etc. out there.

 

If he completely stinks up the joint then fine, go with Keenum until Haskins shows some improvement. But right now there is no real discernible difference between the two(Keenum is proven to be turnover prone)but at least Haskins is young and has that arm that can make the occasional big throw that could maybe win us(or keep us in)a game.

 

I am curious to see how Haskins would perform also.  I wonder how ready Haskins appears to Gruden.  I've seen references to how Haskins is still learning how to call protections and I don't want Haskins rushed on the field before he is prepared to defend himself but I share your curiosity. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Question: can you win 10 games with Case Keenum on THIS team. 

 

Answer: No.

 

Result:  The coaching staff has to put a plan in place to play Haskins from week 1 with a set of plays he can execute and protect himself.  It doesn’t matter if he goes 9 for 30 for 110 yards and a pick.  As long as he’s getting experience while not being beaten up, that’s a positive. 

 

If youre going to go 8-8 with Case and “be close” (I think that’s optimistic myself) then there’s just no point. 

 

The coaching staff has to adapt the offense to Haskins, give him what they know he can do, and go after it.

 

The can protect him by being creative, using motions, being unpredictable, and going no-huddle.  

 

If this coaching staff can’t do that, then that’s more on them than on Haskins.

 

I mentioned this last night in the game day thread.  When the Skins drafted Griffin, who in no way could operate the Shanahan offense, they adapted it and were creative so that he could start right away and have success.

 

The current staff needs to do the same thing with Haskins. 

 

The situation is is almost identical.  The Skins has Griffin, Cousins and Grossman in 2012.  

 

They could have brought Griffin along slowly and played Grossman.  But what’s the point of that?  So they went all in, figured out what could work, and went with it

 

I refuse to believe Haskins can’t operate any part of an NFL offense. So there has to be a way to tailor something to him that he’s familiar with and can run. 

[Otis Wonsley Posse]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Question: can you win 10 games with Case Keenum on THIS team. 

 

Answer: No.

 

Result:  The coaching staff has to put a plan in place to play Haskins from week 1 with a set of plays he can execute and protect himself.  It doesn’t matter if he goes 9 for 30 for 110 yards and a pick.  As long as he’s getting experience while not being beaten up, that’s a positive. 

 

If youre going to go 8-8 with Case and “be close” (I think that’s optimistic myself) then there’s just no point. 

 

The coaching staff has to adapt the offense to Haskins, give him what they know he can do, and go after it.

 

The can protect him by being creative, using motions, being unpredictable, and going no-huddle.  

 

If this coaching staff can’t do that, then that’s more on them than on Haskins.

 

I mentioned this last night in the game day thread.  When the Skins drafted Griffin, who in no way could operate the Shanahan offense, they adapted it and were creative so that he could start right away and have success.

 

The current staff needs to do the same thing with Haskins. 

 

The situation is is almost identical.  The Skins has Griffin, Cousins and Grossman in 2012.  

 

They could have brought Griffin along slowly and played Grossman.  But what’s the point of that?  So they went all in, figured out what could work, and went with it

 

I refuse to believe Haskins can’t operate any part of an NFL offense. So there has to be a way to tailor something to him that he’s familiar with and can run. 

 

All of the above; Haskins will be the starter in no small part due to Snyder

[JSSkinz]

Kyler Murray is playing with the 1's and he was 3/8 and averaged 1.5 yards a completion last night, that's awful.

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Question: can you win 10 games with Case Keenum on THIS team. 

 

Answer: No.

 

You sound absolute like this is a natural law like gravity.  I think the chances of 10+ wins with anyone starting on this team are low but I believe that is the relevant question.

 

The relevant question is of the QBs on the roster who will have the Skins win the most games this season and the answer may be Case Keenum.  I don't know if that is the case or not if that is what Gruden believes he should go with Keenum.  Football is a week to week, year by year thing and teams should go all out to win each and every week so I want them to go with the starters that offer the best chance in week 1, whoever they are.

   

 

 

 

 

2

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Result:  The coaching staff has to put a plan in place to play Haskins from week 1 with a set of plays he can execute and protect himself.  It doesn’t matter if he goes 9 for 30 for 110 yards and a pick.  As long as he’s getting experience while not being beaten up, that’s a positive. 

 

If youre going to go 8-8 with Case and “be close” (I think that’s optimistic myself) then there’s just no point. 

 

The coaching staff has to adapt the offense to Haskins, give him what they know he can do, and go after it.

 

The can protect him by being creative, using motions, being unpredictable, and going no-huddle.  

 

If this coaching staff can’t do that, then that’s more on them than on Haskins.

 

I mentioned this last night in the game day thread.  When the Skins drafted Griffin, who in no way could operate the Shanahan offense, they adapted it and were creative so that he could start right away and have success.

 

The current staff needs to do the same thing with Haskins. 

 

I disagree.  You and I don't know how much Haskins understands and needs to know before he is ready to start.  They shouldn't dummy down an offense to the limits of a rookie and in the process perhaps forfeit whatever chance they have for success in 2019.  Moreover, I think the impairs the progress and potential for low terms success of others as well as the rookie QB.

 

 

 

 

 

2

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The situation is is almost identical.  The Skins has Griffin, Cousins and Grossman in 2012.  

 

They could have brought Griffin along slowly and played Grossman.  But what’s the point of that?  So they went all in, figured out what could work, and went with it

 

Well, how did that work out?  From my point of view very poorly.  As we can clearly see now of the 3 2012 QBs, the real talent was Kirk Cousins, not Grossman or Griffin as Kirk has proven.  If there had been a fair and open QB competition to run Shannys WCO in 2012 Cousins would have won it.  As it was Cousins did beat out Grossman but Kirk wasn't allowed to compete with Griffin who was cast as the starter like a leading man in a movie, apparently, you didn't learn a thing from that sorry experience and want to repeat that mistake.

 

The Skins went all on Griffin and cobbled together simplified offense he could run until the inevitable happened, the running QB got hurt.  I don't want to go down that road again.  I'd like to see the Redskins be patient and play the QB that is best prepared to win on opening day and if that isn't Haskins allow Haskins the time learn defenses and call protections from the film room and the sidelines until ready to protect himself.

 

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I refuse to believe Haskins can’t operate any part of an NFL offense. So there has to be a way to tailor something to him that he’s familiar with and can run. 

 

Haskins clearly can operate some of an NFL offense, I think the early returns are encouraging.  I want to see him brought along intelligently.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

40 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I mentioned this last night in the game day thread.  When the Skins drafted Griffin, who in no way could operate the Shanahan offense, they adapted it and were creative so that he could start right away and have success.

 

They outright changed their offense to fit Griffin's ability to run and inability to play from the pocket and run an actual NFL offense.  Griffin's ridiculous athletic ability made that an option.  Haskins is nothing like Griffin and is a traditional passer.  What is it that you think they can "adjust and adapt" to make him formidable and not stunt his growth with the cast he has around him?  

[skinsmania123]

13 minutes ago, Otis Wonsley Posse said:

 

All of the above; Haskins will be the starter in no small part due to Snyder

Exactly because Jay will not be deciding who starts.  Snyder will interfere.  But it bears repeating that good coaches are able to bring rookie QB's along so that they are not overwhelmed.  Accommodating to their strengths.  Or bringing out their strengths.  This should not be a problem with Haskins, and it will NOT tip off or lead to a D advantage because this guy is always a threat with his long ball, which Gruden will have no problem dialing up to keep the opposing D's honest 

 

Haskins also surprised me because he is quick.   Of course he has made a number of rookie mistakes but he is definitely sharp and shows the capacity to read very well what is in front of him.

 

With that said, and it may sound a bit like a contradiction  - IF McCoy gets playing time and I don't see why he would not starting next week,  if he does really well, he may start the season.  

 

Philadelphia is weak at the QB position right now having to bring in another backup and Wentz according to reports is not 100%, which makes the game more manageable if our guys up front can put pressure on him.   I am 50-50 that Haskins may start, but if not, if McCoy gets in and shows something, it is going to be him IMO.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

The kid took steps forward, keep working young man, you may just be the best shot we have.

[Warhead36]

57 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Tyler Murray is playing with the 1's and he was 3/8 and averaged 1.5 yards a completion last night, that's awful.

 

 

KYLER(not Tyler)Murray is not an NFL QB and will bust out in 3 years.

[wit33]

Man, the way RG3 captured that edge consistently was amazing. I always felt that was his significant edge over Wilson and Kap, the other guys having success at that time with RO. 

 

Haskins is no doubt as exciting of a prospect as even RG3 for me. Through two pre season games, he’s already established within me the feeling a big play can happen at any moment and that he’s constantly looking to put pressure on the defense versus taking what the defense is giving. There’s a happy medium a QB must find in taking what defense is giving versus being aggressive, depending on many variables of each game, but consistently looking to seize opportunities is the path to elite status versus just being average. 

 

Not really hung up on when he plays, just want the best guy out there. I lean towards Colt, but him being injured is unfortunate and killing my energy a bit. Hopefully he’s back out there this week to prep for week 3. I’ll pass on Keenum playing though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Cooley on Sheehan's broadcast from earlier today.  As I said last night I expected him to back off of his comments at the end of that broadcast and he did.  I thought they were bizarre.  Haskins didn't blow the doors off last night but i thought showcased some nice flashes IMO.

 

He is sticking to wanting to see him earlier in the season then later.   Sheehan is on the same point.  Sheehan is swearing by the study that showed guys like Mahomes and Rodgers are the exception not the norm as for the QBs that sit are most likely to succeed.  Statistically speaking apparently those that start in year 1 are more likely to be successful than those that sit.  Nonetheless, context matters.  And you got some chick and the egg that goes with that narrative -- the ones that start right away for example might have been by chance more talented than the average Qb who sat.  And Haskins has a lot of talent but not many college starts so i'd err to be patient with him.

 

I guess i am in between the two thoughts here -- start him ASAP and those that say sit him.  I am closer to the start him ASAP crowd.  I do think he would benefit from the experience and as Cooley sometimes suggests lets see what we got with him sooner versus later.  But at the same time, I think he'd benefit from sitting some games and watching Case or Colt prepare.  I think the game against the Dolphins makes sense for the Haskins era to start. 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I guess i am in between the two thoughts here -- start him ASAP and those that say sit him.  I am closer to the start him ASAP crowd.  I do think he would benefit from the experience and as Cooley sometimes suggests lets see what we got with him sooner versus later.  But at the same time, I think he'd benefit from sitting some games and watching Case or Colt prepare.  I think the game against the Dolphins makes sense for the Haskins era to start.

 

Dolphins seems to be a popular choice.  I'd say Giants.  Half of their receivers are hurt or suspended.  All of their receivers work best in the slot and not out-wide.  Their offense is going to be literally, feed Saquon as much as possible.  Seems a little one dimensional.  Their defense is probably going to be a bit worse than last season.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He is sticking to wanting to see him earlier in the season then later.   Sheehan is on the same point.  Sheehan is swearing by the study that showed guys like Mahomes and Rodgers are the exception not the norm as for the QBs that sit are most likely to succeed.  Statistically speaking apparently those that start in year 1 are more likely to be successful than those that sit.  Nonetheless, context matters.  And you got some chick and the egg that goes with that narrative -- the ones that start right away for example might have been by chance more talented than the average Qb who sat.  And Haskins has a lot of talent but not many college starts so i'd err to be patient with him. 

 

How many first rounders even sit their rookie seasons?  Over the last 15 years, I bet we can count that group on the fingers of one hand.  Change the criteria to first rounders who sat for half the games their rookie seasons and it's still a very small number.  First rounders start as rookies because teams that pick QBs in the first round are almost always desperate for a body to be even remotely presentable as the starter for the upcoming season.  The majority of times it's a regime in their first year and there is no decent incumbent and there isn't even a real competition for the job.

 

Haskins's situation is different.  He got picked by a regime going into its sixth season.  There were two incumbents here and we traded for another guy with starting experience right before we picked him.  The guy who was our starting QB last year suffered a sudden career ending injury right after signing a huge long term deal.  We weren't even in the market for a quarterback until a couple months before the draft, the regime is long-tenured, the team has a fully built defense, and we didn't go up and get Haskins.  He literally just fell into our laps.

 

Point is this situation that Haskins walked into is unique.  There is no prior analogous situation to reference or copy.  We need deal with Haskins's career and development on its own terms.  We do not have to succumb to the pressure to start Haskins early.  Our staff has been in place for a while and we have vets in front of Dwayne that are either well known to the staff, or have recent starting experience.  We didn't burn up a ton of team building resources to go out and get Dwayne.  And our season doesn't hinge on him.

 

And beyond that, Dwayne hasn't earned the job in preseason and camp.  It'd be one thing if he had come into camp and killed it and displaced the vets in front of him naturally like Russell Wilson did.  But he didn't and he doesn't look ready in game action. 

 

And more than anything, the offense looks horrible.  People are really that desperate to run Dwayne out there to spend the entire season playing negative situation football, losing big, and getting hit hard?  I don't care that people aren't excited to watch McCoy or Keenum play, the team needs to win games while also doing what's best for Dwayne and that is keeping him off the field with this trainwreck offense as long as possible.  Sit him until the end of December, go back to the well to fix the god awful offensive line in the offseason, and then try to hit the ground running with him in 2020.

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

KYLER(not Tyler)Murray is not an NFL QB and will bust out in 3 years.

 

Most likely he will get hurt because he won't just blow by everyone in the NFL defenses like he did in college.  Teams will force him to stay in the pocket where he can't see.  If he can't find windows and lanes like a Brees or Russell Wilson then he'll be done for.  

[sportjunkie07]

2 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Kyler Murray is playing with the 1's and he was 3/8 and averaged 1.5 yards a completion last night, that's awful.

 

 

That's a different animal there. He'll probably make a lot of rookie mistakes but the coach is tailoring the offense to him and he will make some ridiculous plays this year.

[SmallDaddy]

Just watching the game on NFL network now. Is there fake crowd noise or did they artificially turn up the crowd noise? 

There looks to be about 10 people in the stadium but there is an annoying artificial sounding constant crowd noise. 

Did anyone else notice this? 

[ThomasRoane]

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

And more than anything, the offense looks horrible.  People are really that desperate to run Dwayne out there to spend the entire season playing negative situation football, losing big, and getting hit hard?  I don't care that people aren't excited to watch McCoy or Keenum play, the team needs to win games while also doing what's best for Dwayne and that is keeping him off the field with this trainwreck offense as long as possible.  Sit him until the end of December, go back to the well to fix the god awful offensive line in the offseason, and then try to hit the ground running with him in 2020.

 

If Haskins seemed like a mentally, fragile kid I'd tend to agree with you.  But he really shows some resilience.  Of course he'd make mistakes.  But he wouldn't be over on the bench having a pity party.  If the best 11 start on offense then who knows how good they could be?  We still haven't seen McLaurin who everyone raves about.  IMO I'd start him, P-Rich, Reed, and Quinn at receiver.  Rotate AP, Guice, and CT at RB depending on the situation.  Christian played better last night and I saw Flowers crush some dude in a really nice pick up in pass pro.  Penn and Martin are not far behind in ability. 

 

The defense is stellar; largely due to the D-line but the tackling is much better in the secondary.  Teams will improve as more vets are added back in.  I agree with Cooley.  The team should see what they've got in Haskins.  We pretty much know who Keenum is.  Love Colt but the poor guy is just snake bit.  Contracts will start coming due for players like Allen, Payne, etc.  We already have to worry about Scherff and I won't even go into the situation with Trent.  Windows for teams without QB's named Tom Brady and coaches like the Hoodie usually have a 3 year window to compete for a SuperBowl in today's era.  This is year one.  Don't want to see it wasted on "just average" at the QB position. 

[Chachie]

44 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Point is this situation that Haskins walked into is unique.  There is no prior analogous situation to reference or copy.  We need deal with Haskins's career and development on its own terms.  We do not have to succumb to the pressure to start Haskins early.  Our staff has been in place for a while and we have vets in front of Dwayne that are either well known to the staff, or have recent starting experience.  We didn't burn up a ton of team building resources to go out and get Dwayne.  And our season doesn't hinge on him.

 

And more than anything, the offense looks horrible.  People are really that desperate to run Dwayne out there to spend the entire season playing negative situation football, losing big, and getting hit hard?  I don't care that people aren't excited to watch McCoy or Keenum play, the team needs to win games while also doing what's best for Dwayne and that is keeping him off the field with this trainwreck offense as long as possible.  Sit him until the end of December, go back to the well to fix the god awful offensive line in the offseason, and then try to hit the ground running with him in 2020.

 

 

Amen.

 

Actually, I'm even sort of excited to see what Keenum can do. I think he's almost as good as Alex Smith as a game manager. Dwayne has not figured out (yet) how to avoid a sack and we'll get him killed out there until he does.

[Mooka]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The coaching staff has to adapt the offense to Haskins, give him what they know he can do, and go after it.

 

The can protect him by being creative, using motions, being unpredictable, and going no-huddle.  

 

If this coaching staff can’t do that, then that’s more on them than on Haskins.

 

You can't protect your QB if said O-lineman can't block said D-lineman.

 

There's no scheming around that.

 

Takes 1 play to get injured. 

 

For example, they let RG3 scramble and run the RO before he could protect himself. Dude couldn't slide and he injured himself scrambling around trying to get down. Career over.

 

Haskins doesn't see his blind sides that well and at college was susceptible to CB/Safety blitzes.

 

You can see evidence of this on a cpl sacks he took, particularly the one where he ran backwards. He scrambled in the wrong direction because he didnt see the edge rusher.

 

Our O-Line was severe problems atm. Ereck Flowers sucks. Dude isn't good. Donald Penn is 36 coming off IR and looked horrendous last season. Geron Christian is showing promise, but he's a 3rd round project tackle. He can't just start and shut-down elite NFL edge rushers. The Myles Garretts out there are going to eat him up.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

3 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

The kid took steps forward, keep working young man, you may just be the best shot we have.

 

1. God, I hate it when people call young players "kid." You aren't weathered vet nor is this WWII. Let's all relax.

 

2. Do you think he is reading this?

36 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

For example, they let RG3 scramble and run the RO before he could protect himself. Dude couldn't slide and he injured himself scrambling around trying to get down. Career over.

 

 

1. That was in a goddamn playoff game.

2. The issue wasn't that he couldn't protect himself. The issue was that they played him while hurt.

3. They also played him while hurt in a goddamn meadow. We're lucky he don't fall into a hornet's nest during that game.

[Mooka]

I meant the Ravens game.

 

He could've safely went down during that scramble but his leg whipped over a defender.

 

That was his career right there.

[MartinC]

5 hours ago, Otis Wonsley Posse said:

 

All of the above; Haskins will be the starter in no small part due to Snyder

 

I really get the sense he wont. At least not to start the year. 

 

I expect to see Keenum start week 1. This coaching staff HAS to win to stay employed - Keenum probably gives them the best chance to do that out of the gate. Plus its a heck of alot easier to bench Keenum if we struggle early and bring in Haskins than the opposite. A lot better for the psyche of a young QB as well.

 

I think we start say 1-2 and look sluggish on offense and Haskins could start as soon as week 4 against the Giants or after the Patriots game in week 6. 

[SkinFanInMinn]

30 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I really get the sense he wont. At least not to start the year. 

 

I expect to see Keenum start week 1. This coaching staff HAS to win to stay employed - Keenum probably gives them the best chance to do that out of the gate. Plus its a heck of alot easier to bench Keenum if we struggle early and bring in Haskins than the opposite. A lot better for the psyche of a young QB as well.

 

I think we start say 1-2 and look sluggish on offense and Haskins could start as soon as week 4 against the Giants or after the Patriots game in week 6. 

This.   I think (hope) they won't throw him to the wolves against Pats.  Let's just leave him on the bench past that game.  The next two after that are Miami (there) and SF (home).  Those sound like much better options as his first pair of games IMHO.