PartyPosse Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: I think we're at a crossroads here between a slowly developing Haskins and a coaching staff that's not sure what Haskins can and can't do yet. It happened to come together against the Eagles, but there's growing pains for all involved. I also think it helps Dwayne's development when he's not able to sit back in the pocket and slowly go through reads. WCO forces him to be much more time-based to get him into a rhythm. Forcing him to get rid of the ball quickly ( I think I saw a stat that said he was getting the ball out in 2.6 seconds) helps speed up his mindset in terms of how fast he needs to process everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, MartinC said: McLaurin is a stud. I like Harmon as well - but right now is a #4 on a good team not a #2. By the start of next season he may have developed beyond a #4 - he's certainly a keeper. I love Simms as a return guy and 5th active receiver but right now he is below replacement level as a slot IMO. We all agree Quinn has no business being on the roster - right? Trey Quinn. 26 catches, 198 yds, 1TD, 7.6 yds per catch and 4.2 yards per target. Steven Simms, 23 catches, 165 yards, 1 TD, 7.2 yards per catch and 4.3 yards per target. All Simms has over Quinn right now as a slot is the athletic ability to at least hope he develops. Quinn is what he is. And Simms has the dropsies. That is never a good thing for a starting WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 44 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I'm sure this tweet will be perceived as a negative by some... but for me, I'm just confused as to why they haven't been doing this all season. Challahan said himself that the reason they did that was because that’s how the Giants attacked the Eagles and it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I won't argue too hard, but I wouldn't mind penciling Simms in with the idea that he (and whoever he's going against) has an honest chance to win the slot role. Similarly, I don't think you have to go into free agency and spend big to get a guy to replace him. I think he or someone else can grow/be groomed into the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Llevron said: Challahan said himself that the reason they did that was because that’s how the Giants attacked the Eagles and it worked. Yeah, I just saw that. There are HOF QB's who have made a career off of getting the ball out of their hands quickly though, so I think it'd be safe to assume that this plan of attack should work for more than just one game. 47 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: I think we're at a crossroads here between a slowly developing Haskins and a coaching staff that's not sure what Haskins can and can't do yet. It happened to come together against the Eagles, but there's growing pains for all involved. Agreed, but you'd think they'd start off with the easier concepts for a QB with so little experience, rather than turning to it now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: And Simms has the dropsies. That is never a good thing for a starting WR. It's worrisome considering he's also returning kicks but as far as I know he hasn't fumbled any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Why at day one installs lol West coast concepts would’ve sufficed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I like Harmon and Simms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmandoug1 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 42 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: It's worrisome considering he's also returning kicks but as far as I know he hasn't fumbled any. Lol, he fumbled his 95 yard kickoff return. That's his best dropsie ever.🤣🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, MartinC said: McLaurin is a stud. I like Harmon as well - but right now is a #4 on a good team not a #2. By the start of next season he may have developed beyond a #4 - he's certainly a keeper. I love Simms as a return guy and 5th active receiver but right now he is below replacement level as a slot IMO. We all agree Quinn has no business being on the roster - right? Trey Quinn. 26 catches, 198 yds, 1TD, 7.6 yds per catch and 4.2 yards per target. Steven Simms, 23 catches, 165 yards, 1 TD, 7.2 yards per catch and 4.3 yards per target. All Simms has over Quinn right now as a slot is the athletic ability to at least hope he develops. Quinn is what he is. Thats a nice stat, and one I noticed today, but if you look deeper into the stats you see one player is emerging and one is decending. Quinn's first three games this year: 33, 36, 30 yards, 1 TD Since then: 10, 18, 8, 30, 15, 0TD Sims last three games this year: 29, 40, 45 yards, 1TD In the games before that: only 2 games with more than 10 yards receiving. But in those same games before these last three: 1 rushing TD, 1 return TD. So its not like Sims has been doing nothing. In fact, even when he was not being given the opportunity Sims has shown that he deserved to be given the ball more. He scored our only points against the Patriots and our only TD against the Lions, and that is before he was starting or even getting any looks. In fact that's why he's in the game now. He had the best game of his career last week and is trending up. He's made some mistakes but lets not forget the dropsies that Crowder had in 2017 against Dallas. I'm liking Sims for the simple fact that he's a UDFA and even when coaches liked Quinn more than him, he demanded that he get the ball more and is rewarding us with more and more big plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 If we are calling going from 29 yards to 45 yards receiving ascending (and those 45 yards case on 11 targets!) - I think we are clutching at straws. I do think Simms has potential - and he has speed which you can't coach. Right now as a receiver at least potential is all pretty much all he has. (edited) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Sims is ideal because he is getting separation. He has top end speed, and is getting open. The drops can be fixed. I would be surrounding Haskins with the fastest guys I can find. Mclaurin/Jeudy/Sims/Henry would make for a great receiving core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, MartinC said: I do think Simms has potential - and he has speed which you can coach. It right as a receiver at least potential is all pretty much all he has. Maybe not your best paragraph, lol. I’ve really liked what I’ve seen from Sims (Haskins should have had him for that 20 something yarder too). With that said, while I’m not looking for a replacement for him, I’m also not going into the draft considering the position filled. I would definitely hope to land a receiver in this draft - should be able to get a talented one - and if they beat out Sims or Harmon, so be it. We’ll still keep those two and our starters and depth will be improved. Regardless, I’m looking forward to seeing this trio develop. I’ve been trying to think of who Sims reminds me of, and I think I’ve landed on Devin Hester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, MartinC said: If we are calling going from 29 yards to 45 yards receiving ascending (and those 45 yards case on 11 targets!) - I think we are clutching at straws. I do think Simms has potential - and he has speed which you can coach. It right as a receiver at least potential is all pretty much all he has. Yeah I definitely am. Its not just about the yards but things like separation. Quinn wasn't getting that. Lets not ignore that Quinn didn't get separation on his routes, and one of Haskins's interceptions was because Quinn moved after Haskins had already thrown the ball. This isn't really a Sims vs Haskins thing though - I just think Sims is a good player. He's a rookie who's just getting his first playing time so 45 yards and a TD on his first start to me is great. 11 targets just shows that he was getting the separation. He had 3 drops so he should have at least 100 yards there (one deep ball and 2 passes that I think were about 15 yards each). And lets not ignore that a guy like Crowder looked great when he was the third (fourth) option behind Garcon, Jackson and Reed, heck and maybe even Thompson. But when we tried to move him up and make him the number 1, he struggled. But what we're seeing from Sims is what Quinn and Crowder didn't have - speed. Last game (against the Packers) Sims was getting separation, but Haskins wasn't looking his way because he wanted the deep ball to Harmon or McLaurin. This time he was more set on taking what was there so he went to Sims more. I think that looks good for the future (maybe next year but definitely the next 2 weeks) in that we have underneath options even if we don't have a TE or pass catching running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, skinny21 said: Maybe not your best paragraph, lol. 😂 In my defence I was typing while I was doing something else. And I can't do one thing let alone two. But yeah that's a garbled mess!! Quote I’ve really liked what I’ve seen from Sims (Haskins should have had him for that 20 something yarder too). With that said, while I’m not looking for a replacement for him, I’m also not going into the draft considering the position filled. I would definitely hope to land a receiver in this draft - should be able to get a talented one - and if they beat out Sims or Harmon, so be it. We’ll still keep those two and our starters and depth will be improved. Regardless, I’m looking forward to seeing this trio develop. I’ve been trying to think of who Sims reminds me of, and I think I’ve landed on Devin Hester. I'm not down on Simms. I really like him as a return guy. But as a receiver he is all potential right now. Hes certainly someone you continue to develop - but you need a good and productive slot, especially for a young developing QB. I would be looking at both the draft and FA here (it's a really good WR draft class) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I’m surprised so many people down on Sims, I like the guy a lot. He needs to work on his hands but he is very elusive, something we haven’t had in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 40 minutes ago, max21 said: I’m surprised so many people down on Sims, I like the guy a lot. He needs to work on his hands but he is very elusive, something we haven’t had in a while. He has speed but I don’t know on how many teams he would see the field in a WR role. We need 2 WRs to line up across McLaurin and a TE who are not currently on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 56 minutes ago, MartinC said: 😂 In my defence I was typing while I was doing something else. And I can't do one thing let alone two. But yeah that's a garbled mess!! I just figured you're from England and we can never understand your version of English... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, Xameil said: I just figured you're from England and we can never understand your version of English... Let’s go with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 hours ago, MartinC said: 😂 In my defence I was typing while I was doing something else. And I can't do one thing let alone two. But yeah that's a garbled mess!! Ha! 3 hours ago, MartinC said: I'm not down on Simms. I really like him as a return guy. But as a receiver he is all potential right now. Hes certainly someone you continue to develop - but you need a good and productive slot, especially for a young developing QB. I would be looking at both the draft and FA here (it's a really good WR draft class) Didn’t mean to imply you were down on Sims. I agree with the above except 1) he’s all potential... plus speed (which you’ve mentioned previously), and 2) I actually hope we avoid FA for receiver. Kind of random, but I noticed a route by Sims (whip route?) the Eagles’ db was all over and it’s one Quinn ran on them game one and just about broke the db’s ankles. On the flip side, you see Sims getting separation on drag routes and the like, whereas if felt like Quinn never did. People blamed Haskins for missing on these (I believe), but he tried to put the ball at Quinn’s fingertips because he was blanketed. It’s an interesting distinction between route running and speed. Here’s hoping Sims can close the gap as a route runner because he’s got the speed to then turn the ball upfield and pick up chunks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I find it alarming that many of the people who have ridden with Haskins week after week are also getting on Sims for having a case of the drops. It’s certainly not everyone... but Sims is a rookie. Haskins is a rookie. Neither may pan out. But both are going to get more than one season to see what they offer, in my opinion. So let’s pump the brakes on writing Sims off. Dude is electric. If he puts time in with his hands he could be fantastic. Or maybe he winds up amounting to nothing. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I found it odd to hear that Callahan was saying the play calls for Dwayne on Sunday were "day 1 of camp type of things" yet he had his best game of his career. It all just points to Cally and Gruden forcing him to run a complicated offense that was simplified this week because they didn't think Haskins would have much time vs the vaunted Eagles DL It's no wonder that we struggle to develop QBs. I still think Callahan saw Meyer up in booth and thought better of yet another 1972 era game plan. It was interesting to hear that Callahan was salty after this loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, KDawg said: I find it alarming that many of the people who have ridden with Haskins week after week are also getting on Sims for having a case of the drops. It’s certainly not everyone... but Sims is a rookie. Haskins is a rookie. Neither may pan out. But both are going to get more than one season to see what they offer, in my opinion. So let’s pump the brakes on writing Sims off. Dude is electric. If he puts time in with his hands he could be fantastic. Or maybe he winds up amounting to nothing. Who knows. I think it’s going to be interesting to see how he does against the Cowboys secondary. But to your point... it doesn’t really matter - he’s a rookie and will continue to develop (whether or not he gets much better with his hands/routes or is supplanted by another receiver). If it were virtually any other draft, I’d actually be fine skipping on receiver, but I hope we take one this go round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 hours ago, KDawg said: I find it alarming that many of the people who have ridden with Haskins week after week are also getting on Sims for having a case of the drops. It’s certainly not everyone... but Sims is a rookie. Haskins is a rookie. Neither may pan out. But both are going to get more than one season to see what they offer, in my opinion. So let’s pump the brakes on writing Sims off. Dude is electric. If he puts time in with his hands he could be fantastic. Or maybe he winds up amounting to nothing. Who knows. I’m not down on Simms for his drops - I think his hands are fine. I’m down on him for what he has done with the ball once he’s caught it. But I’m certainly not writing him off. He absolutely has the potential and speed to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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