FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm actually a fan now of the Cardinals move. It takes teams so many years to admit they made a mistake and wasted a draft pick, and all that does is is delay the inevitable and leave you in a poor situation.

 

Say what you want about the Cardinals, but I think Murray is definitely a better fit for them than Rosen. And he's the reason they aren't a total dumpster fire (along with guys like Fitz). They admitted their mistake right away and they moved on. And that's not an indictment on Rosen, necessarily. He may be a good pro. But he wasn't for the Cardinals. And especially a new Cardinals regime. 

 

Again, I'm not sure we're in that bracket or situation at this point. But we sure could be. And my point of view is that we do what is best for the team.

Yeah I don't mind it either to be honest. But personally if we get the #1 overall(we won't, Miami is still worse than us), I'd rather pull an inverse RG3 and trade down to pick up a bunch of high picks. Remember, we are down a 2nd in 2020 due to the Sweat trade. We need a LOT of talent across the board.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I don't mind it either to be honest. But personally if we get the #1 overall(we won't, Miami is still worse than us), I'd rather pull an inverse RG3 and trade down to pick up a bunch of high picks. Remember, we are down a 2nd in 2020 due to the Sweat trade. We need a LOT of talent across the board.

 

I agree, but I also think there is a lot of QB talent in this upcoming draft and we can trade down and still snag a guy to come on board. Haskins, if not the guy, is also trade capital. Again, I'm NOT saying to trade him yet. It's WAY too early and he has way too much potential. But we'll have a pretty good read on the situation by the end of the year. If he looks the part, I'm good keeping him, even if his stats aren't great. 

 

I also don't agree that Miami is worse than us. I think that game is going to be a barn burner of epic proportions.

[Skinsinparadise]

It's not crazy that he needs a little time.  😀  Joe Theismann who watched practices has been shouting off the roof tops not to play him right away.  Louis Reddick who worships Dwayne also said before the season he wouldn't play him yet and the veterans give the Redskins more time to win. 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/39060/redskins-backup-dwayne-haskins-unfazed-patiently-awaits-his-chance

 

...With every scout-team rep, quarterbacks coach Tim Rattay goes over Haskins' footwork. When he's not running scout team and watching Keenum's reps with the starters, Rattay is constantly in Haskins' ear. He'll tell him the play and ask Haskins to say it back to him. He'll quiz the QB on reads.

 

"He's much improved in that area," Rattay said. "Boom, boom, boom he can spit it out. That's why every time in practice we're talking through each play."

Haskins' footwork remains a point of emphasis.

 

"Our quick [passing] game drop is different than what he did in [college]," Rattay said. "That's something we need to work on and fix. It's something he's never done before and it just takes a lot of reps.

 

"There's a lot of growth, but it's not where we want it to be right now. But that's everybody in the building, too. I like where he's going and I like that he's working hard."

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/39060/redskins-backup-dwayne-haskins-unfazed-patiently-awaits-his-chance

 

Haskins' preseason appearances have been a roller coaster. One play he looks like a future Pro Bowler, making a difficult throw on a perfect read into a tight window. The next, he shows his youth, panicking under pressure and forcing a ball into triple coverage.

Redskins offensive coordinator Kevin O'Connell said how Haskins has responded to adversity portends positively when he finally takes over the starting gig.

"Part of the problem is you have to expose guys to some struggles early on so that they can see how hard of a position it's going to be," O'Connell said. "It almost ignites a work ethic and an understanding of: 'I better do everything in my power to put this offense in the best possible position, and how do I do that?' It's being prepared every single day."

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001044783/article/redskins-happy-with-dwayne-haskins-progress

[SemperFi Skins]

Redskins vs. Dolphins.... who will flinch first???

 

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

I don't understand how anyone, whether its Joe theismann, a forum poster on ES or the Ghost of Vince Lombardi could possible justify how a 1st round QB who threw 50 Td's at Ohio state needs to sit, or is not ready..... I mean, HOW THE **** does this happen. Did we know this kid was a project or slow learner coming out ? Or did we discover this in camp ?! Wasn't Daniel Jones the project guy ?! I just don't get why Jones and Murray are in there slinging touchdowns and our guy needs a full a year of holding the clipboard, This is crazy talk.

 

   Is it too early to start saying that this was a reach or a poor pick ? Drafting 1st round QB's in the modern era who need to "sit & learn" is not a common thing.  This is really discouraging , I can't say I'm surprised though. Maybe the Giants passed on him for a reason

[megared]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't see it as a "collective failure" as to this.   I don't think you are going to get any HC in a win now season be willing to discard the present and focus on the future.  As Hoffman likes to say, they should have either fired Jay before the season or give him an extension if the idea centered on playing Haskins this season.  You can't play it in the middle.  Why should Jay care about 2020 when he's unlikely to be here then.  If he thinks Case or Colt gives him the best chance to win now, that's who you play.  

 

Having said that, I don't get the panic about Haskins not lighting it up right away.  He will survive.  It happens.  No big deal to me. 

 

Because he's a professional.  He knows when his contract expires...what SBs, playoff victories, or other leverage does he have?  That isn't owed to him. 

 

He's under contract to be here through the 2020 season.  Maybe the front office shouldn't have drafted Haskins, but they did, get over it.  Find the best way to coach the team up to get Ws. 

 

Did you really think a combination of Colt or Chase were going to take us anywhere? 

 

The only downside in playing Haskins at this point, is the exposure of the lack of development effort the coaches put into him.  The fact that he was a backup for the first three weeks, to me, makes it worse.    

[JSSkinz]

I like the idea of drafting out of the #1 or #2 pick and recouping an extra 1st and 2nd but not if it means bypassing a generational talent, no way.

 

You take that player and embrace it, we haven't seen a generational talent in Washington in 30 years.

 

 

[Peregrine]

36 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Everybody was saying he wasnt ready, but I'm curious exactly what he was having trouble with in practice or the QB room.  What does he have to show the coaches that will change their mind about his readiness?

Its not about him having trouble with anything, its because unlike almost all of the other QBs drafted, he had only 1 year as a starter in college.  He had the least game time at a high level under his belt, and so will most likely need much more time to develop than other QBs of the same draft class.

[justice98]

6 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Its not about him having trouble with anything, its because unlike almost all of the other QBs drafted, he had only 1 year as a starter in college.  He had the least game time at a high level under his belt, and so will most likely need much more time to develop than other QBs of the same draft class.

 

Haskins played a lot of football in that one year starting.  He had more snaps in college than Kyler Murray did, nobody's suggesting he's not ready. Comparable snaps to Wentz when he came out.  

 

My point is, if Haskins isnt ready, there has to be something specific that he's not adept at handling.  What didnt he learn?  Not really concerned with "why" though, I'm focused on the "what".  

[megared]

Just now, justice98 said:

My point is, if Haskins isnt ready, there has to be something specific that he's not adept at handling.  What didnt he learn?  Not really concerned with "why" though, I'm focused on the "what".  

 

Probably knowledge of the offense.  It took vets all of the playclock to regurgitate the 15 word phrases for the plays. 

[volsmet]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

I saw from Haskins exactly what I expected to see. I saw flashes of big talent but a guy who's raw and not used to NFL defenses or the speed of the game. TBH I expected a couple of INTs but really I only pin one of them on DH...the first one. That's exactly the kind of stuff he did in college and got away with (flicking it off his back foot across the middle) because of his superior arm talent, superior supporting cast, and inferior talent level of DBs he was facing. He won't be able to get away with that in the NFL very often. That being said, Sprinkle's separation was nonexistent and his effort seemed pretty lackluster. 

 

The second INT was just a QB throwing a 50-50 ball to his #1 WR who was in a one on one situation. It just so happened that his #1 WR in this game isn't all that good and is absolutely not known for his jump ball abilities (is he known for anything?) so PRich got completely pantsed by a far more talented DB in Jenkins. Sometimes QBs are gonna take those chances on throws. If it was McLaurin (or even Harmon maybe) I think it likely would have been a catch. 

 

Third INT was purely a timing issue. He was throwing an anticipation route and he and Davis weren't on the same page so Davis had barely turned around when the ball got there. I'm not actually that mad about that INT because that played showed that DH isn't a dude who has to see a guy open in order to throw it and he can throw with anticipation when he's pressured. Since he hasn't been working out with the 1s I'm not all that surprised that something like that happened. 

 

His mechanics still need work as he still tends to have inconsistent footwork and still does far too much of the flicking while throwing off his back foot. He did it on the deep toss to Thompson that nearly got picked. If he'd stepped into it correctly (he had enough time...IMO he either saw a bit of pressure starting to come and panicked a bit or he just got lazy with his mechanics) that's a sure TD as CT had a step on his guy. He also held the ball for way too long too many times. Though with that I'm not sure if it was hesitation or indecision on his part or if his receivers truly just couldn't get open. Would have to watch the All-22 to see.

 

It certainly wasn't pretty, but I'm also certainly not going to proclaim the sky is falling as I still saw some nice flashes out of him. He progressed well during preseason so I'll see how he progresses now during regular games. He was also in a ****ty situation. Throw into the game with a pretty big point deficit, without 3 starting OL, without our best WR and best TE and without having had any practice with the 1st team leading up to the game.

 

Some of the stuff in this thread I've seen is exactly why I've been saying he's not ready to start. I was pretty sure his first games would look like this. People can say they're ready to deal with growing pains but when it actually happens the emotions take over and next thing you know people are screaming "BUST!".  

 

 

 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

 But personally if we get the #1 overall(we won't, Miami is still worse than us)

 

 

58 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Redskins vs. Dolphins.... who will flinch first???

 

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

There are 7 teams that have zero wins in the NFL right now...it's not just about the Dolphins and the Redskins.

[Heisenberg]

I have no doubt the kid is talented and will improve as time goes on. With that said, I have hated his attitude/body language since draft night and he hasn't done much to make me feel better about it during the past week.

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

There are 7 teams that have zero wins in the NFL right now...it's not just about the Dolphins and the Redskins.

The other winless teams have been competitive though. We haven't played a meaningful fourth quarter yet.

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't see it as a "collective failure" as to this.   I don't think you are going to get any HC in a win now season be willing to discard the present and focus on the future.  As Hoffman likes to say, they should have either fired Jay before the season or give him an extension if the idea centered on playing Haskins this season.  You can't play it in the middle.  Why should Jay care about 2020 when he's unlikely to be here then.  If he thinks Case or Colt gives him the best chance to win now, that's who you play.  

 

Having said that, I don't get the panic about Haskins not lighting it up right away.  He will survive.  It happens.  No big deal to me. 

Let me add, they didn’t just give him a rookie QB when he was tasked to “win now” versus develop anyone for the future... they gave him one that especially was raw and would need time developing. 
 

Genius.
 

And now fans are up in arms about how he’s going about it. If this isn’t a microcosm of everything that is wrong with the organization and what it does to people here... I don’t know what is. 
 

When we drafted Haskins, this was my first post about it: 

 

Quote

The argument that you need a legit QB to succeed in a sustainable manner is sound, but I think what often gets lost, glossed over, or ignored is how much the organization/environment itself has to do with one emerging. 

 

What I’ve come to understand about this after a lot of research on it is that there is essentially a baseline of talent necessary for a QB to have (accuracy, pocket presence/elusiveness, and leadership are the biggest things), but once that baseline is there it really comes down to these 5 criteria for an organization to find or have one emerge: 

 

A) Sound FO (I believe this is the most significant factor to the rest of the criteria below being implemented properly)

B ) Resources Willingly* Spent 

C) Stable System of Development

D) Patience (with the right guy once he starts)

E) Wisdom to know when to move on (from the wrong guy)

 

* "Willingly" here is meant to imply that they brought in QBs without necessarily having an immediate need or due to injury, as well as the willingness to spend valuable resources on the position, not just an undrafted FA here and there or something, or even a cheap veteran Free Agent backup. 

 

...............................

 

It’s too early to be sure, but I do think Haskins has that baseline. At least, he did in college. We’ve seen just how often it doesn’t translate to the pros where everyone is bigger, faster and smarter. But there’s a lot there to suggest he does have it and it will translate. 

 

The bigger question now is, are the other criteria going to be met? 

 

I really would rather not get into the soundness of our FO/organizational process right now. I think most know at this point how I feel about it and it’s a big reason why I largely stay away from discussing the Skins in general. 

 

............................

 

Criterion 3 will depend on Jay’s status with the team. The timing is off here, as he’s entering his second to last year on his contract and it’s unlikely he’ll coach without an extension. If it were up to me I’d extend his contract one more year right now to ensure he has, at least, through 2020 to allow Haskins to develop under him. The fear could be that Jay simply doesn’t care about Haskins’ development if he knows he’s a dead coach walking, but Jay for all intents and purposes has proven to be a good guy and a good soldier, even when he doesn’t get what he wants... so it’s doubtful he’ll be an hindrance. 

 

If not extended, then the key will be what they do after he’s let go. The good news is, Jay’s offense is sound and applicable to any modern, pro-offense. So the field is expansive in terms of finding a new coach who will continue to provide a stable and consistent system of development for Haskins that doesn’t radically shift Jay’s approach.
.....................

 

I’m no genius and it was easy to see the inherent problem with drafting someone like Haskins at the time. But this is what this organization always does, the timing is almost always off. The vision isn’t there and every friggin move is reactionary. 
 

The silly conspiracies right now about Jay actively sabotaging the kid, when everyone and their mother (including Haskins and people in his camp and probably his own mother for that matter) said he needs to sit, work on his game without the pressure of starting, and be patient is simply disgusting to me. 
 

But, hey, what’s new. The culmination of another Snyder Cycle^tm is at hand. How fun!
 

Same posters trashing Jay right now were the same ones trashing the Shanahan’s and buying every fluff piece about Jay when he was hired and were the same ones trashing Zorn and buying every fluff piece about Shanahan when he was hired and were the same ones excited about Gibbs’ “old school run, run, pass approach” departing and were buying every fluff piece about Zorn and his new and organized approach when he was hired and were the same ones trashing Spurrier and were buying every fluff piece about Gibbs’ return and how he’d fix everything and were the same ones trashing Marty and were buying every fluff piece about Spurrier’s new and innovative offense and were the same ones trashing Norv and were buying every fluff piece about Marty’s disciplined style and on we go!
 

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 
 

Can’t wait for the next guy! Hmmmm... let me guess? We’re going to get some fluff pieces about a more disciplined approach? Maybe some more “hurry up” going to be sprinkled in the offense (that’ll get the fans juices going, there’s nothing like the phrases “hurry up” and “uptempo” to generate some erections)? For sure we’re going to hear about a more “aggressive defense” that’ll be about “attacking the offense”. 
 

So exciting, everyone, amirite!? 
 

[Fresh8686]

41 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

There are 7 teams that have zero wins in the NFL right now...it's not just about the Dolphins and the Redskins.

 

I think I'm more worried about the broncos losing out then the dolphins. The dolphins play the jets twice still, so one of those teams will no longer be win-less and of course they play us. Similar thing for the Bengals. Cardinals could lose out as well and then trade down with someone, unless they beat the bengals next week. If they don't their best chances for a win after that are the bucs, falcons, steelers, and giants.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Califan007 said:

There are 7 teams that have zero wins in the NFL right now...it's not just about the Dolphins and the Redskins.

 

If you go through their schedule most of those teams are playing each other so something will have to give.  Cincy, Jets, Pitts, Miami, Arizona.  The exception being Denver.  The rest of my post isn't directed at you. 

 

Yes, I have already started looking at draft position.     I'd kill for a top 3 pick especially in this draft.  If they end up with the #1, they'd get a kings ransom from Miami.  In an odd way it's the best thing that could happen to this franchise -- might be the best shot to get Kyle a promotion, too.  I can't ever watch a Redskins game and root for them to lose.  But at the same time, at this point the loses don't bother me. 

 

I'd add with all the attacking going on at Jay -- even If I agreed with all of it -- I'd want Jay to continue the season and have zero angst about it.  They are about to be 0-5.  The playoffs are out.  So what's the point now, 6-10?   If Jay is as big of a moron as some here purport he is then let him oversee the titanic and crash the season.  That's your best shot at change.    Also a shot at potentially a game changing player like Chase Young, etc.   If I wanted Jay gone I'd want to double down on him finishing the season because I wouldn't want him to hang his hat on a what if type season, hey Dan we went 7-9, but here's why. 

 

Think of our division.  Key players for all of them were really high picks in the draft.  Wentz, Elliot, Barkley.  For us through the years arguably the two best players were Taylor and Trent.  Both high draft picks.  Yes, this isn't the NBA.  But there is a difference usually from getting lets say the best pass rusher in the draft like Von Miller with the #2 pick in the draft, then a lesser but albeit good pass rusher in the same draft like Ryan Kerrigan.  One dude like Miller can make the difference to getting to the SB, the other one has a good career and helps win some games but typically isn't a game changer.  You often can get "special" players in the top 5.  And arguably the lack of special players is a weakness of this roster.  We have our share of good players, not a lot of great ones.   

4 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

I think I'm more worried about the broncos losing out then the dolphins. The dolphins play the jets twice still, so one of those teams will no longer be win-less and of course they play us. Similar thing for the Bengals. Cardinals could lose out as well and then trade down with someone, unless they beat the bengals next week. If they don't their best chances for a win after that are the bucs, falcons, steelers, and giants.

 

Yeah agree, going through all the schedules, Denver is the team I fear on that front.  😀

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, megared said:

 

Because he's a professional.  He knows when his contract expires...what SBs, playoff victories, or other leverage does he have?  That isn't owed to him. 

 

He's under contract to be here through the 2020 season.  Maybe the front office shouldn't have drafted Haskins, but they did, get over it.  Find the best way to coach the team up to get Ws. 

 

Did you really think a combination of Colt or Chase were going to take us anywhere? 

 

The only downside in playing Haskins at this point, is the exposure of the lack of development effort the coaches put into him.  The fact that he was a backup for the first three weeks, to me, makes it worse.    

 

If my boss makes it clear its a win now-playoffs or bust type of season -- my job is to play out that hand.     That's being a professional at least in my book. 

 

Everyone who watched camp thought Case and Colt looked more ready than Haskins.  It doesn't matter IMO what you or I think of them as players.  All that matters in the context of winning now is which of those QBs gives you the best shot of winning now.  It doesn't matter how Colt stacks up to let's say Matt Ryan and the rest of the NFL.  All that's relevant is how does Colt stack up to Haskins. 

 

If Dan goes to Jay and says look I know you will take some lumps with Haskins but I really want to see Haskins play the season regardless and I'll factor that in your job security -- then that would be different.   But that's not how its portrayed.  

[megared]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If my boss makes it clear its a win now-playoffs or bust type of season -- my job is to play out that hand.     That's being a professional at least in my book. 

 

Everyone who watched camp thought Case and Colt looked more ready than Haskins.  It doesn't matter IMO what you or I think of them as players.  All that matters in the context of winning now is which of those QBs gives you the best shot of winning now.  It doesn't matter how Colt stacks up to let's say Matt Ryan and the rest of the NFL.  All that's relevant is how does Colt stack up to Haskins. 

 

If Dan goes to Jay and says look I know you will take some lumps with Haskins but I really want to see Haskins play the season regardless and I'll factor that in your job security -- then that would be different.   But that's not how its portrayed.  

 

Can you really say they give you the best chance of winning, if they've never won yet?  Considering the games haven't even been close...All bets are pretty much off...whatever you had planned, obviously is going to ****.  Do you pivot, or double down on being 'close'?

 

Having said that, Haskins came in the game, and did in one drive, what Case couldn't do after multiple tries (a sustained drive).  Baby steps. 

 

And I don't recall there being a mandate to make the playoffs. 

 

There's no way you can convince me, putting Haskins as the "next guy up" (backup) without knowledge of the offense was a good idea.  There's a reason why teams usually delegate that role to experienced vets...ESPECIALLY if they have no plans or intentions to get the guy reps in practice. 

 

Even if we were 4-0, both of the other QBs on the roster are in the last year of their contracts.  What's the plan then?  Hope Alex Smith can suit up next year?  

[NoCalMike]

Haskins may not be "ready" in the way you would want a QB to lead a team to the playoffs, but this is not a team that a learning Haskins would be holding back.  They were well on their way to 0-4 before Haskins even sniffed the field.

 

Now let's look at Daniel Jones.  He caught some fire at the end of a game last week and was suddenly anointed a future HOFer by the sports media and all that jazz.  Now go to the Redskins game and Jones looked mediocre against one of the worst defenses in the NFL.  Early on he basically took what this awful defense gave him, wide open players waiving their arms in the air because no defender is anywhere close.  That is basically college football out there.  Then, as soon as the Redskins defense miraculously creates a little pressure on him, dude throws a couple picks and for the rest of the game for the most part he looks like a rookie that "isn't ready"

 

My point is, rookie QB's that are starting from DAY 1 on bad teams, (for the Redskins, not just bad, but downright dysfunctional) things are not going to look pretty, especially for Haskins who was likely #3 on the depth chart had Colt been healthy during the offseason.  Haskins has been in no way been preparing to for playing.  Some, a lot even, can be blamed on Gruden.  Colt still out, Keenum is hobbling around on 1 foot all week during practice, but no extra prep for the rookie who is one play away from going into his first NFL game? What the eff?

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Can you really say they give you the best chance of winning, if they've never won yet?  Considering the games haven't even been close...All bets are pretty much off...whatever you had planned, obviously is going to ****.  Do you pivot, or double down on being 'close'?

 

You are talking to a dude who has been a loud critic of Colt and wasn't enamored with Case to say the least.  I got no doubt Haskins has more potential than Colt and Case.  But winning now and grooming potential are two different things.   Heck even Louis Reddick who worships Haskins has said multiple times they have a better chance to win NOW with Case.  As for winning later on, that's a different story.  But Jay's verdict for the season is to win in 2019.  Not 2020.  

 

If you think Jay is the problem, I'd chill.  Every beat guy, every article I've read said Jay is gone after the end of the season.  I am sure Dan-Bruce are putting together a great Plan B and all will be OK.  They will extricate themselves from Jay and the rest should just come easy.    😀  Why even worry about Jay?  He's a deadman walking. 

[megared]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are talking to a dude who has been a loud critic of Colt and wasn't enamored with Case to say the least.  I got no doubt Haskins has more potential than Colt and Case.  But winning now and grooming potential are two different things.   Heck even Louis Reddick who worships Haskins has said multiple times they have a better chance to win NOW with Case.  As for winning later on, that's a different story.  But Jay's verdict for the season is to win in 2019.  Not 2020.  

 

If you think Jay is the problem, I'd chill.  Every beat guy, every article I've read said Jay is gone after the end of the season.  I am sure Dan-Bruce are putting together a great Plan B and all will be OK.  They will extricate themselves from Jay and the rest should just come easy.    😀  Why even worry about Jay?  He's a deadman walking. 

 

But winning now does us no good right now either.  Is it not abundantly clear that this isn't a playoff team? We're 0-3 in the division, 4 weeks in.

 

Jay's one redeeming quality is his perceived ability to develop QBs.  If he's not going to do that (and it's not important to the FO) why is he still here?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Soooo...what had Derrius Guice proven?

 

Heck, what has Colt EVER shown in this league?

[Llevron]

I actually like Jay as a coach for the most part. I definitely like what hes done more than what Shannahan did when he was here. But I dont think hes handling this QB thing correctly. The above statements just make things more difficult imo. 

 

And as usual I do wish he would just say it if he was forced to draft the dude and doesn't really want to play him if that is indeed the case. Though I know why he cant. 

 

In general, the Redskins cause me heart palpitations and it doesn't really have anything to do with Haskins or Jay -- but i still feel comfortable being critical of both. Both can improve at their jobs imho.