FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[volsmet]

30 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

Danny Dimes is playing for a bad team, and is holding his own (picks notwithstanding). Doesn't seem like he's "getting ruined".  Let's see what we have in Haskins.

 

Completely different prospects. 

[Peregrine]

7 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

The difference is that Wentz and to an extent Murray played in conferences that weren't filled with NFL calibre defenses. Haskins played in the Big 10, which is filled with elite teams that are more comparable to what you'd see in the NFL then say the FCS. It wouldn't have been surprising if both faltered right away, but Haskins should be a little more up to speed. 

Was the big 10 a better conference because their biggest competition was the 14th ranked team, while Oklahoma's was ranked 9th?  And why would any of that make a difference in whether he was ready to play, or Murray ready to play?

Is there any evidence whatsoever to suggest Big 12 players have it better in the NFL right away compared to Big 10 players or is that just entirely made up on the spot?

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

I think Louis Riddick is angling for a job. He’s showing Snyder already that he’ll fit right into the culture of scapegoating and factionalism. 
 

Remember the rumors swirling about us hiring a major media member for GM? People assumed it was Mayock, but Riddick fit way more. He’s always desperately campaigning for a job in the NFL so he’ll do whatever Snyder and Allen ask. Plus he’s been out of the league for some time now, Snyder’s favorite type of hire. 
 

Now he’s trashing a coach’s handling of the renewed hope at QB for the fanbase. I mean, is that not the Snyder trifecta or what? 
 

Oh, and don’t forget this earlier this offseason: 

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/dwayne-haskins-twice-qb-rgiii-was-louis-riddick-says

 

 

Louis is as good as hired.  

 

But if the owner wants Haskins to play, isn’t Riddick calling our owner an imbecile? 

[TSO]

Just now, volsmet said:

 

But if the owner wants Haskins to play, isn’t Riddick calling our owner an imbecile? 

Dude, we’re operating by Snyder logic here. Don’t ask me to fully understand the reasoning.  

 

Did Louis say that, though? I haven’t actually watched it. I was going off what Twitter is quoting him on and it’s exclusively targeted at Jay. I should’ve watched it first, my bad. 

 

Still, all I’m saying is there are things there that fit real good. Checks off a lot of boxes on the Official Snyder Hiring Process (or lack thereof). 

[CowboyKillerz]

Some of the tantrums on Haskins are beyond silly to me...

 

The lack of a game plan for inserting DH into a game is a reflectuon on the HC. Not Snyder, not Allen... Not Jesus. Gruden.

 

Anyone that watches the film can see how easy the plays for "danny dimes" are- 1 or 2 read dinks screens half behind the LOS more balanced running attack... 

Where our asshat of a coach painyed Haskins into a corner and said good luck rook! Injuries galore in the hole and he has long developing routes zero commitment to run and no effort to get a rhythm.

 

Yes some poor throws were made- but he did actually give us that "spark" that failed on the goal line for our only points. 

 

1st team reps with holding, ANY coach from JB team to HOFer has a plan b for the back up qb that dpesnt envolve the whole play book. Maybe if he had his boy McScorchin the safeties- but he didnt..

 

Love to see the average distance his passes travelled in the air compared to mr dimes- 

 

What a joke.

 

If he sits this week (mercifully) he needs to be the #1 from after the pats game forward- sorry coach, McCoy is ****ing trash, still.

[TSO]

19 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

But if the owner wants Haskins to play, isn’t Riddick calling our owner an imbecile? 

Ok, so I watched it for myself. Yeah, Louis is pretty much targeting the coaches. He talks about the disconnect that was said to have existed from the onset when they drafted him, but his ire seems directed at Jay and he even mentions an “agenda”. 
 

Steve Young then says this is on the owner and Louis wanted to jump in and argue about it but then chose to stay quiet. 
 

So I’m sticking with my original conspiracy theory. Expect Louis signed as GM.  

[volsmet]

 

 

 

 

[sportjunkie07]

It'd be nice to see what haskins can do with a week of prep. Script the first 2 drives, hope for 10 points and an early Brady injury. 

 

On a side note, a lot of the young qbs look, well, like rookies. Even the number 1 pick looks pretty bad imo. He is a master at taking what should be a throw away pass and turning it into a 10-15 yard sack. 

 

Also on a side note, I watch the cardinals offensive attack and know that the redskins defense would get shredded by it. 

[Hooper]

1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

I think Louis Riddick is angling for a job. He’s showing Snyder already that he’ll fit right into the culture of scapegoating and factionalism. 
 

Remember the rumors swirling about us hiring a major media member for GM? People assumed it was Mayock, but Riddick fit way more. He’s always desperately campaigning for a job in the NFL so he’ll do whatever Snyder and Allen ask. Plus he’s been out of the league for some time now, Snyder’s favorite type of hire. 
 

Now he’s trashing a coach’s handling of the renewed hope at QB for the fanbase. I mean, is that not the Snyder trifecta or what? 
 

Oh, and don’t forget this earlier this offseason: 

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/dwayne-haskins-twice-qb-rgiii-was-louis-riddick-says

 

 

Louis is as good as hired.  

 This. 100 percent this.

 

He will be our “GM” just like Scott was.

 

And Bruce will still be in the picture and shiv Riddick when things don’t work out.

 

 

 

 

[RemoveSnyder]

1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

Louis Riddick

 

But in typical Dan machiavellianism he'll offer his prized Head Coach (let's just say Urban Meyer, for ****s and giggles) contractual final say on the roster (he'd have to do something like that in the very least just to get an audience with Meyer IMO, in addition to a butt load of money, because of the well earned toxic stigma of the Fran), thus undermining the authority and "territory" of the new "appease-the-fans-with-some-trick-of-light GM" hire before things even got started, in typical Dan fashion, despite the fact (using your example of Riddick as an unqualified boner) those of us in the know, already know just how god awful Riddick would be.  

 

How 'bout that sentence TSO?

[mistertim]

44 minutes ago, sportjunkie07 said:

It'd be nice to see what haskins can do with a week of prep. Script the first 2 drives, hope for 10 points and an early Brady injury. 

 

On a side note, a lot of the young qbs look, well, like rookies. Even the number 1 pick looks pretty bad imo. He is a master at taking what should be a throw away pass and turning it into a 10-15 yard sack. 

 

Also on a side note, I watch the cardinals offensive attack and know that the redskins defense would get shredded by it. 

 

C'mon man, that ain't cool.

[TSO]

@Hooper @Monk4thaHALL
 

I didn’t know whether to “like” your posts or “cry”. But yeah, whether it happens or not the evidence is all there for things to go either which way you guys posited. It’s almost too obvious. Especially with how Riddick is talking right now. 
 

He’s either angling for the job in desperation or he knows something already. I usually stay away from predicting anything (fallible humans are fallible) but this one stood out to me. 
 

And, yes, @Monk4thaHALL , I liked that “sentence”.  

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Was the big 10 a better conference because their biggest competition was the 14th ranked team, while Oklahoma's was ranked 9th?  And why would any of that make a difference in whether he was ready to play, or Murray ready to play?

Is there any evidence whatsoever to suggest Big 12 players have it better in the NFL right away compared to Big 10 players or is that just entirely made up on the spot?

I didn’t say a better conference, I said the big 10 style is much more comparable to what you’d find in the nfl in terms of defenses. I doubt Wentz saw much when he was killing it down in SDSU. As for Murray, well it’s no secret that the big 12 is a predominantly offensive, air-raid style conference with your Baylor’s, OSU, Oklahoma etc. I mean there’s a chance that Oklahoma could have three straight Heisman winning QBs and it’s not just because of Riley. It’s why conferences like Big 10 and SEC have so many players picked in the draft, the big 12, not so much. I don’t even have to look up the numbers to know this as fact.

 

i also; at no point said anything remotely close to big 12 players having it better than big 10 and even if i did it would have been the complete opposite. All I eluded to is the fact that QBs that played in more traditional style defensive conferences like SEC and BIg 10 should be better prepared to play in the NFL as the systems they play against (from a defensive standpoint) in their respective conferences are much more similar. 

[DJHJR86]

15 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

How does any of that take away from Gruden being able to call plays to help Haskins get into a rhythm?  Call some quick high percentage passes, get a groove going?  Gruden knows he hasn't prepared the guy, but if he knew there was a chance he would get put into the game in the event Keenum was sucking, or showed signs of being too injured to keep playing, why do you not have some type of plan for Haskins should he be put into the game?  You think Jones, Mayfield, etc etc are just thrown out there into the normal scheme? Yeah right.

 

Either we shouldn't have drafted him in the first round, or he should be able to come in against the worst defense in the league and not look completely lost out there.  Do you honestly think Gruden didn't simplify the playbook when he came in?  

[KDawg]

There's a lot of variables here.

 

One of those variables, that many seem to be avoiding, is that perhaps Haskins just isn't any good. Maybe he hasn't been prepared because he hasn't looked good in practice. Maybe the coaching staff sees him and says, "holy ****... we can't play him..."

 

Then there's the opposite. Maybe Gruden is just trying to give the FO the finger on the way out.

 

There's also the "not pro ready, needs time to learn and develop" line of thinking. We are too far on the outside to really understand any of what's going on with Haskins at this point. 

 

I do feel totally safe in saying that if Gruden goes, Haskins becomes expendable. Any coach coming in (and I think this ties into @Monk4thaHALL @thesubmittedone @Hooper 's conversation) would need to have the guise of control or they won't bother. Or rather, any quality coach coming in would need the guise of control. To that end, Haskins may or may not be the QB moving forward.

 

From a business perspective, putting Haskins out there against the Patriots is an astronomical mistake. If you may potentially be moving on from him at the end of the year, you don't want him against the best defense in football getting absolutely shredded. That's bad film and it's hurting an asset.

 

From a football standpoint, if Haskins is your guy moving forward, you don't want him against the best defense in football getting absolutely shredded. That's an absolute killer.

 

There's very little reason to feed him to New England from a development standpoint, or an asset management standpoint.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Going back to when I learned that Gibbs gave Theisman 100% of the first team reps and the backup got none this whole approach makes zero sense to me. Why in the world would NFL head coaches not be giving the backup a handful of first team reps each practice, especially if the backup is a rookie. But that apparently is the way it is and always has been. 

[RandyHolt]

Does Jay require his QBs to read deep to shallow as standard protocol?

 

We saw Case under duress vs Chicago, holding the ball, going through his reads. Turnover, hold the ball turnover.  And then after we saw Haskins holding the ball for what seemed like a long time on Sunday, it got me to thinking - how does Jay ask his QBs to read receivers - where to go with the ball. If anyone knows please chime in.

 

Sure, some play calls will be quick slants / no deep reads, but..... where were the quick passes, safe plays for Haskins to keep his jersey clean?

 

It's almost like Jay had no real plan to ease him into a game. Of course, Dan and Bruce have probably been poking him with sticks since draft Haskins, when ya gonna play him?

 

I think Jay is (only half ass) trying to get fired, and if true, maybe should have nothing to do with Haskins at this point. I would have a lot of questions for Bruce if he did more than his annual spring interview with a tiny country radio station. 

[DJHJR86]

53 minutes ago, KDawg said:

There's also the "not pro ready, needs time to learn and develop" line of thinking. We are too far on the outside to really understand any of what's going on with Haskins at this point. 

 

I think this is where he's at, honestly.  I don't think it's as surefire as some of the draft analysts (as well as Louis Riddick, Haskins biggest cheerleader clearly angling for a GM job here) project Haskins to be a guaranteed star.  I go back to Cooley's initial take in comparing Haskins to Jones.  He said Haskins has the higher ceiling, but also the lower floor.  Meaning that there is a potential for him to be a bust.

 

Which brings me to the "Gruden is clearly sabotaging him and he has an agenda" BS.  For anyone who truly believes this, why isn't your anger directed more at the FO for drafting a QB in the first round who cannot even handle coming in with minimal prep against the worst passing defense in the NFL?  Either Haskins is a first round talent who should gain experience and start the remainder of the season, or he's a project QB who should have never been taken at #15 overall.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

I think Louis Riddick is angling for a job. He’s showing Snyder already that he’ll fit right into the culture of scapegoating and factionalism. 
 

Remember the rumors swirling about us hiring a major media member for GM? People assumed it was Mayock, but Riddick fit way more. He’s always desperately campaigning for a job in the NFL so he’ll do whatever Snyder and Allen ask. Plus he’s been out of the league for some time now, Snyder’s favorite type of hire. 
 

Now he’s trashing a coach’s handling of the renewed hope at QB for the fanbase. I mean, is that not the Snyder trifecta or what? 
 

Oh, and don’t forget this earlier this offseason: 

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/dwayne-haskins-twice-qb-rgiii-was-louis-riddick-says

 

 

Louis is as good as hired.  

I think you may be onto something here.  I can't recall if I posted it or not, but over the summer, Riddick was on Keim's podcast and totally changed his tune about Snyder.  He said Snyder came up to him before the Philly MNF game last year and they talked, he can tell that he's a different guy from their brief conversation, he's changed so much, he's not the everyday presence anymore, etc.  It felt extra at the time and my spidey senses told me there was something a little off about it.  It's one thing to say you've heard he's a different guy, but to go to the lengths he did after a very brief conversation was odd to say the least.

 

I'm not sure Riddick's salary at ESPN,  but it would seem he has a pretty good thing going for him.  It would be a shame for that to go to waste, choosing the Redskins to scratch the itch to get back into an NFL FO.  What Dan would absolutely love about Riddick is the notoriety from being on ESPN and that Bruce can still be team president and say things like "full control of personnel".  Sadly, Riddick would probably believe that or should I say, make himself believe that.  Next thing you know Bruce is in his office talking trades.  Rinse, repeat.

[Spaceman Spiff]

The media pearl clutching about playing Haskins is ridiculous.

 

C'mon, he wasn't playing the '85 Bears.  This was a game that we could have won had we been able to score some points off turnovers.  At the very least we could have been in the game.  

 

Keenum wasn't getting it done.  He missed Quinn twice on deep balls.  The offense needed a spark, so I think putting Haskins in to see if he could do anything against a subpar opponent wasn't the worst idea in the world.  

 

I can see the arguments for playing him or sitting him against the Patriots.  I'm close to not really caring.  We can banter back and forth about "developing" and "ruining" quarterbacks.   Louis Riddick talking about how terrible it was to put him in...whatever.

 

I'm of the opinion that at some point, a player gets it or he doesn't...he's either got it or he doesn't.  Either he can read a defense or he can't.  Either he can go through his progressions or he can't.  He can hit an open receiver or he can't.  IMO, development can get in the way of that to a certain degree but at the end of the day Haskins is going to have to prove that he can play in this league no matter who is standing on the sidelines and no matter what defense he's facing.  

 

That all said, I don't think he should play against the Patriots but if he does it's not the end of the world.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

[justice98]

17 hours ago, Peregrine said:

I just dont think thats the case.  To say a player isnt ready because of something specific, and not just experience is not understanding how irreplaceable experience is.  If a 5th round pick isnt playing in year 1, nobody asks "Whats wrong?  What is he not adept at handling?".  Instead, they say "Hes got to learn, to adjust, its normal for it to take time to become good enough to play in the NFL".  Absolutely everything in the world, every career, every craft, every job, every professional takes a long long time to perfect, and even the quickest learners cannot substitute book knowledge for experience.  There is NO substitute for experience.

Wentz was a full 2 year starter in college, and was terrible in his first year in the NFL, so Im not sure thats a comparison you want to go for.  Im not sure Kyler Murray, a player who has yet to do anything but really struggle(and who I think is going to be a busy) is one you want to go for either.

 

I guess I think experience is just more than a time component, it's also reps, ie, how many times you're doing the task at hand.  In this case, lining up, dropping back and quarterbacking.  Whether that be over 2 years or one.  

 

But even you say people say "he's got to learn, to adjust".  Learn what, adjust to what?  Coverages, verbiage, protections, mechanics, etc.  It's gotta be something, rather than basically an abstract "stuff".  Because you have to know what to coach him up on or to know what he's able to do that makes him ready.

 

My point in bringing up Murray wasnt is or isnt he any good.  It was, the only criticism you ever heard was his height.  Haskins comes out and he cant shake the criticism that he was a one year starter.  

 

Wentz wasnt terrible as a rookie either.  By rookie QB standards he was fine.  +60% completions, +TD/INTs, 3700 yards, led the team to 7 wins, he did fine.  Nothing that suggested the guy couldnt play.  And nobody was saying readiness was an issue either, even though he didnt do much more in two years than Haskins did in one.  Not accomplishments, just in terms of taking reps. He didnt even throw it that much. In terms of dropping back and playing the position, Haskins experience level was comparable, IMO.  

 

Maybe I have a sliding scale for judging rookie QBs.  Good/terrible for a rookie isnt the same as for a vet, IMO.  

[joeken24]

9 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

I think Louis Riddick is angling for a job. He’s showing Snyder already that he’ll fit right into the culture of scapegoating and factionalism. 
 

Remember the rumors swirling about us hiring a major media member for GM? People assumed it was Mayock, but Riddick fit way more. He’s always desperately campaigning for a job in the NFL so he’ll do whatever Snyder and Allen ask. Plus he’s been out of the league for some time now, Snyder’s favorite type of hire. 
 

Now he’s trashing a coach’s handling of the renewed hope at QB for the fanbase. I mean, is that not the Snyder trifecta or what? 
 

Oh, and don’t forget this earlier this offseason: 

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/dwayne-haskins-twice-qb-rgiii-was-louis-riddick-says

 

 

Louis is as good as hired.  

Riddick's already worked for this organization. And you think he wants to come back? You actually think Washington at this point in the game is an attractive job?

 

If anything, the Redskins should be calling him back. And again, some fans will cuss the team out until somebody outside agrees. This team is wet garbage! Ain't nobody comin' here!

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think you may be onto something here.  I can't recall if I posted it or not, but over the summer, Riddick was on Keim's podcast and totally changed his tune about Snyder.  He said Snyder came up to him before the Philly MNF game last year and they talked, he can tell that he's a different guy from their brief conversation, he's changed so much, he's not the everyday presence anymore, etc.  It felt extra at the time and my spidey senses told me there was something a little off about it.  It's one thing to say you've heard he's a different guy, but to go to the lengths he did after a very brief conversation was odd to say the least.

 

I'm not sure Riddick's salary at ESPN,  but it would seem he has a pretty good thing going for him.  It would be a shame for that to go to waste, choosing the Redskins to scratch the itch to get back into an NFL FO.  What Dan would absolutely love about Riddick is the notoriety from being on ESPN and that Bruce can still be team president and say things like "full control of personnel".  Sadly, Riddick would probably believe that or should I say, make himself believe that.  Next thing you know Bruce is in his office talking trades.  Rinse, repeat.

Riddick would never work for Bruce lol. He’s not a yes man.

[justice98]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I think this is where he's at, honestly.  I don't think it's as surefire as some of the draft analysts (as well as Louis Riddick, Haskins biggest cheerleader clearly angling for a GM job here) project Haskins to be a guaranteed star.  I go back to Cooley's initial take in comparing Haskins to Jones.  He said Haskins has the higher ceiling, but also the lower floor.  Meaning that there is a potential for him to be a bust.

 

Which brings me to the "Gruden is clearly sabotaging him and he has an agenda" BS.  For anyone who truly believes this, why isn't your anger directed more at the FO for drafting a QB in the first round who cannot even handle coming in with minimal prep against the worst passing defense in the NFL?  Either Haskins is a first round talent who should gain experience and start the remainder of the season, or he's a project QB who should have never been taken at #15 overall.  

 

Yeah, that narrative seems absurd.  Particularly for a guy that wants to save his job, or even get another one.  It's in Gruden's best interests for every player to be great, especially Haskins.  I honestly dont think he's sabotaging Haskins out of spite against Bruce or anything else.  

 

I subscribe to the idea that we're just not dealing with a savant here in terms of management.  He doesnt know what to do or how to get a rookie QB ready, while desperate to win games now. 

 

It's really a bad situation to be where the coach is coaching for his job and is expected to win, but you saddle him with a rookie QB he didnt want.  Then aside from that, the rest of the team has gone to hell at the same time all that us going on.  

 

I dont necessarily agree Riddick is clearly angling for the GM job though. He's not saying anything that a bunch of people arent thinking.  Ripping how this franchise is run and questioning its decisions isnt exactly a hot take.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Haskins basically played one half of football, right? I mean, that was Case out there in the first half and I didn't miss any other playing time he's been given in other games, have I?

 

Just checking.