FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

 

This is what I dont understand. If Colt is getting the keys to the kingdom, again, and is fully healthy.....why wasnt he coming in yesterday? 

 

**** makes no sense to me. Gruden really ****ed this one up. 

 

He wasn't physically ready yet.  

[Llevron]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He wasn't physically ready yet.  

 

I understand he practiced fully though

[KDawg]

Haskins absolutely deserves a break for his performance.

 

The playcalling was shoddy. He wasn't prepared with the first team. He came in down 14.

 

But, having said that, there is an "it" factor when certain guys come in the game that changes everything. When a guy is just a pro from day one and you just know it. Haskins gave a small spark, but it didn't last. Is that entirely on him? No. Does that condemn him? Absolutely not. But I think watching his development is key going into the 2020 draft. And not just for the idea that we take one of the top guys (I think, if we get the first or second pick we should trade back for a large haul). But we need to see if QB is on the radar in order to totally make the most informed decision.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Haskins needs to stop throwing while jumping in the air...that's some Tarvaris Jackson-level bull**** that he did during the preseason and did again at least once yesterday.

[megared]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah actually Hoffman yesterday morning talked about Jay indeed have a set of plays ready for Haskins.   I am giving Haskins a break for his performance, yesterday.  It's not easy to debut in that type of context.  But at the same time I don't blame Jay for Dwayne's subpar performance.  Dwayne's a rookie, plenty of rookies have rough outings -- especially rookies without much college experience. 

 

Didn't seem like it.  Or maybe they ran out of options once those plays were exhausted.  

 

Are you really telling me, that if Jay somehow KNEW, in advance, that he'd be calling Haskins' number, in the 2nd quarter of the 4th game, that he wouldn't have invested more time and energy into developing him?  

 

It's one thing to make mistakes because of bad decisions, but we can't even gauge that at this point because he has no rapport with the receivers.  No understanding of the timing of the offense.  Those things AREN'T his fault.  

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I understand he practiced fully though

 

A reporter two said he practiced but wasn't still 100%.    But even if he were, I am not clamoring or giving Jay a hard time for not having Colt ready.  Jay loves Colt so of all people Jay wouldn't be keeping him out of an opportunity for no reason.  

 

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/Texas-Longhorns-football-NFL-Colt-McCoy-recovery-leg-injury-full-practice-participant-Jay-Gruden-Dwayne-Haskins-Washington-Redskins-136151575/

Colt McCoy returns to practice, injury recovery nearly complete

ByJEFF HOWE Sep 26, 9:29 PM

•  
•  
•  

[JSSkinz]

I think you keep the kid in, he looks to be one of those guys who might learn quicker from live reps rather than sitting on the sideline.

 

I look at his progression from preseason games 1 - 4 and you could see the improvement from week to week, let him play, he's smart and it's possible he will quickly adjust.

 

Bottom line we need to know what he is before next years draft.

 

 

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A reporter two said he practiced but wasn't still 100%.    But even if he were, I am not clamoring or giving Jay a hard time for not having Colt ready.  Jay loves Colt so of all people Jay wouldn't be keeping him out of an opportunity for no reason.  

 

 

Fair point, but then I have to wonder why they were splitting reps as the backup even if he didnt think the guy would be ready to go. 

 

I dont know, this just seems to me like it wasnt planned very well. The kid didnt play well. Thats obvious. But I feel like he wasnt really ever in a position to do so from the jump and that is on leadership. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Didn't seem like it.  Or maybe they ran out of options once those plays were exhausted.  

 

Are you really telling me, that if Jay somehow KNEW, in advance, that he'd be calling Haskins' number, in the 2nd quarter of the 4th game, that he wouldn't have invested more time and energy into developing him?  

 

It's one thing to make mistakes because of bad decisions, but we can't even gauge that at this point because he has no rapport with the receivers.  No understanding of the timing of the offense.  Those things AREN'T his fault.  

 

I get people hate Jay right now and want to vent.   I didn't mention anything about whether Jay knew in advance he'd be calling Haskins in -- I don't really even get your point on it.

 

I agree that Haskins looking shaky isn't his fault.  He is a rookie.  Rookies struggle.  It has happened before.  It will happen again.  

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, JSSkinz said:

Bottom line we need to know what he is coming before next years draft.

 

I think we call can agree on that, now. We dont have much else to look forward to anyway unfortunately 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Fair point, but then I have to wonder why they were splitting reps as the backup even if he didnt think the guy would be ready to go. 

 

I dont know, this just seems to me like it wasnt planned very well. The kid didnt play well. Thats obvious. But I feel like he wasnt really ever in a position to do so from the jump and that is on leadership. 

 

Even if I ran with that point all the way.  My point is who cares?  Haskins career isn't over.  So he struggled in a half of game.  No big deal.  I recall watching Peyton live his rookie year in a game in Miami and telling my friend at the game with me -- this dude Peyton sucks.  Peyton's career ended up fine. 😀

[Califan007 The Constipated]

15 minutes ago, megared said:

It's one thing to make mistakes because of bad decisions, but we can't even gauge that at this point because he has no rapport with the receivers.  No understanding of the timing of the offense.  Those things AREN'T his fault.  

 

 

There was a ****load that was his fault, though, that would not have changed with 2 or 3 practices with the starters. The overwhelming narrative from all sides--media, fans, analysts, etc--with Haskins was that he definitely would need time, development, and patience, but that it would be worth it because his upside and ceiling were so damn high. So for me anyway, I'm not worried about him playing poorly yesterday--he was missing half the starting lineup on offense and had not practiced nor played with the starters that were still able to play. But I'm also not thinking some extra practices last week would have solved a lot of what went wrong with his performance. Only a lot more time and a lot more development will do that. He's always been at least a year away from being good, no matter how much he played this season or who he practiced with. I have no problem with him starting the rest of the season. But if they do start him, I'm hoping and expecting to see improvement. If he's still jumping in the air while throwing in week 14 then I'm gonna start worrying lol...

[megared]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get people hate Jay right now and want to vent.   I didn't mention anything about whether Jay knew in advance he'd be calling Haskins in -- I don't really even get your point on it.

 

I agree that Haskins looking shaky isn't his fault.  He is a rookie.  Rookies struggle.  It has happened before.  It will happen again.  

 

Haskins' performance has more to do with the decisions Jay made in the interest of Case and his man love for Colt, than any kind of conclusion you could draw from his ability to QB.  

[Llevron]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Even if I ran with that point all the way.  My point is who cares? 

 

A lot of Skins fans care and they should if the problem is the leadership. I for one was hoping that Gruden was going to be able to help this dude succeed -- or at least help him understand the position he is in -- and it looks like the opposite at this point. I can understand if you dont care though. There is alot of football let. 

 

Im just getting all my ****s out before we are 0-6, thats all. 

 

 

 

[megared]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

There was a ****load that was his fault, though, that would not have changed with 2 or 3 practices with the starters. 

 

Yea it would've if you subscribe to the theory that he CAN improve.  The guy was running scout team and getting NO reps until last week.  But somehow, some way, Gruden could fit wasted reps for Colt.  

 

I seriously doubt he has a high level understanding of the offense, or the limitations of his teammates (P. Rich + jump ball = incomplete at best).  

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

A lot of Skins fans care and they should if the problem is the leadership. I for one was hoping that Gruden was going to be able to help this dude succeed -- or at least help him understand the position he is in -- and it looks like the opposite at this point. I can understand if you dont care though. There is alot of football let. 

 

Im just getting all my ****s out before we are 0-6, thats all. 

 

 

 

 

Cool.  It's not exactly a funky off beat point of view that a one year college starter would need more time to be ready than the average more experienced college starter.  Bill Parcells hammered that point in his draft specials years ago and flat out said he's wary about taking college QBs period with a limited sample size like that.  A scout who knew Haskins recently said the same that he needs to sit for now.  Cooley in his scouting review said the same.  I watched 5 practices myself in camp and said the same -- I am a layman but it was obvious even to me he was struggling including throwing a ton of picks.  Beat guys who watched camp have said the same.   I talked about what I saw in detail in camp and Haskins to me needed to practice his accuracy on certain throws.  Jay can't throw the ball for him.  Having said that, I am not down on the kid, I like his potential.

 

But me not caring -- and a lot of Redskins fans do care -- I presume that centers on your point about Jay's "lack of leadership" with Haskins.  To each their own on that.  I reject the point itself let alone saying I don't care about it.  I am just saying specifically I am not in a panic about Haskins performing poorly last Sunday.  Yes, I don't care if he or any rookie had a rough start.  It doesn't define their career and its not a big deal to me.  That was my point.   😀

 

And if people want to blame Jay on Haskins' performance -- you got to loop O'Connell into this too.  From what I kept hearing, O'Connell is the dude specifically tasked with getting Haskins ready.  Jay is readying the whole team -- he's not purely just the QBs.  O'Connell has the relationship with Day from Ohio State and according to reporters and articles (some with quotes from O'Connell himself) he has been working on incorporating some of the things that Haskins likes from college.    But no I don't blame O'Connell either.  Haskins isn't ready.   He needs some time.  It's not a radical thought.  I don't IMO think we need people to blame for that.  

 

But to your point about venting.  I get it -- its cool.😀  I don't love this start either.  If they go 0-6 as you say there, then we'd have a shot at the #1 pick because that meant we lost to the Dolphins.  And that actually IMO is a good thing not a bad thing for the long term health of this franchise.  I know Jay is a mega scapegoat for most.  Not so much for me but even if he were, he's a dead man walking so I don't get all the angst about it.  He's gone its just a matter of time.  If it's all about Jay leaving and watch Haskins soar -- people will have that opportunity to see.  Back to Haskins, if people want to see him play then that's cool but I think he's going to have to take his lumps.  I'd have waited to play him.  

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Haskins' performance has more to do with the decisions Jay made in the interest of Case and his man love for Colt, than any kind of conclusion you could draw from his ability to QB.  

 

In a win now year, Jay wouldn't nor should IMO give a rats behind about the "future".  that's not on him, that's on the people above him.   The article below spells it out well IMO, lot of Haskins stuff in it. 

 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

I am 100% on board with starting Haskins for the rest of the year to see whether or not he's worth developing.  I don't understand why some fans think drafting another QB in next year's draft is some big no-no.  The Cards did it this year.

[megared]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In a win now year, Jay wouldn't nor should IMO give a rats behind about the "future".  that's not on him, that's on the people above him.   The article below spells it out well IMO, lot of Haskins stuff in it. 

 

It really is a collective failure, got it.  But anyone that thought Colt + Case was going to preserve their job, probably deserves to lose it.  The one chance he had/has is with Haskins.  I don't want my coach picking the players, especially not him.  Pretty confident a team of McCoys, Crowders, Grants, Perines would largely be in the same place.  

 

Are we really going to chase meaningless (in fact detrimental) wins in the non-conference portion of our schedule?  We've already seen we aren't competitive with Chase, so what difference does it make?  I wouldn't play him against the Patriots, but after, there's no reason not to.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, megared said:

 

It really is a collective failure, got it.  But anyone that thought Colt + Case was going to preserve their job, probably deserves to lose it.  The one chance he had/has is with Haskins.  I don't want my coach picking the players, especially not him.  Pretty confident a team of McCoys, Crowders, Grants, Perines would largely be in the same place.  

 

Are we really going to chase meaningless (in fact detrimental) wins in the non-conference portion of our schedule?  We've already seen we aren't competitive with Chase, so what difference does it make?  I wouldn't play him against the Patriots, but after, there's no reason not to.  

 

 

I don't see it as a "collective failure" as to this.   I don't think you are going to get any HC in a win now season be willing to discard the present and focus on the future.  As Hoffman likes to say, they should have either fired Jay before the season or give him an extension if the idea centered on playing Haskins this season.  You can't play it in the middle.  Why should Jay care about 2020 when he's unlikely to be here then.  If he thinks Case or Colt gives him the best chance to win now, that's who you play.  

 

Having said that, I don't get the panic about Haskins not lighting it up right away.  He will survive.  It happens.  No big deal to me. 

[justice98]

Everybody was saying he wasnt ready, but I'm curious exactly what he was having trouble with in practice or the QB room.  What does he have to show the coaches that will change their mind about his readiness?

[Warhead36]

You actually do run the risk of ruining him if you put him out there when he clearly isn't ready. He's going to commit to his bad habits in live game action. He needs practice reps where he can clean that stuff up so he doesn't do it in real games.

 

[RandyHolt]

Jay seems less ready to use a rookie QB, than Haskins is unready, himself.

 

Bruce keeps throwing assets at Jay, with no real vision or plan, sure.  Jay likely has no long term interest in Haskins, and has spent 5 years making a complicated scheme for Colt to dominate in.  Here Jay, we got you a raw QB with high expectations based on his draft slot.

 

This is a problem from a team building perspective.  So what we can take from this, is that Bruce is the least ready of the 3. 

[wit33]

13 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

Colt is worse than Case.  Why have people forgotten this?

 

QBs at this level benefit greatly in having a system that meshes well with their QB personality, skill set, and time in the offense. Its easy for me to say it now, but this is why I was more for Colt starting than Keenum; system understanding, player support, and relationship with Jay. 

 

With that said, the ineptitude of the defense continues to surprise most of us and it’s hard to project much better with Mccoy.Though, I do believe momentum and flow in games are difficult to quantify and are left to abstract type arguments — Colt would’ve assisted more (IMO) to the momentum and flow. 

 

This is why these guys don’t belong in the same tier as Alex Smith, because his QB traits and intangibles carry over to any system or chaotic situations a game has to offer. A true pro, albeit average. 

 

I lean towards being a sit Haskins for most of the season, maybe finish off the last 2-3 games to have some things to sink teethe into during the off-season and game experience. 

 

25 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I am 100% on board with starting Haskins for the rest of the year to see whether or not he's worth developing.  I don't understand why some fans think drafting another QB in next year's draft is some big no-no.  The Cards did it this year.

 

Unconventional— not wrong,  but the Cardinal situation represents the exception (as you know) and you’d like to try and maximize gains on the QB drafted. I hear you though, it shouldn’t come at the detriment to the team or if the QB is bad, then the quicker, the better. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

Unconventional— not wrong,  but the Cardinal situation represents the exception (as you know) and you’d like to try and maximize gains on the QB drafted. I hear you though, it shouldn’t come at the detriment to the team or if the QB is bad, then the quicker, the better. 

 

I'm actually a fan now of the Cardinals move. It takes teams so many years to admit they made a mistake and wasted a draft pick, and all that does is is delay the inevitable and leave you in a poor situation.

 

Say what you want about the Cardinals, but I think Murray is definitely a better fit for them than Rosen. And he's the reason they aren't a total dumpster fire (along with guys like Fitz). They admitted their mistake right away and they moved on. And that's not an indictment on Rosen, necessarily. He may be a good pro. But he wasn't for the Cardinals. And especially a new Cardinals regime. 

 

Again, I'm not sure we're in that bracket or situation at this point. But we sure could be. And my point of view is that we do what is best for the team.