2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Malapropismic Depository]

I think Trevor Lawrence and Trey Quinn were separated at birth.

[wtfskins]

10 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Absolutely say NO to Chase Young at #2

Dude has better grades than both Bosa brothers.  Name a dominant top 5 DE that has not lived up to there potential. I’ll name mine that are worth every penny  and you name your busts.  Khalil Mack, von Miller, Myles Garrett, Joey Bosa, jadaveon clowney, nick bosa.  Every year only 1 team has a chance to get a game changing pass rushing DE and you say NO.  Why would you even think that? I’m curious. 

[Macster]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You said something patently false and I called you on it, and now you feel the need to attack me personally? You said Young beat up on inferior teams and did nothing against the better ones. That was a lie (or you just didn't know). Also having no sacks isn't the same as having no impact. Pressures, and teams having to keep extra guys in to block you makes a difference. 

 

And yes, not every pass rusher gets sacks every game, no matter the competition...that has to do with game planning, and other possible factors. Remember when that loser Khalil Mack (whatever happened to him, isn't he working at McDonalds now?) got zero sacks in his two most important games at the end of his college career? Or when that bum Von Miller started out his final year at A&M with four consecutive games with no sacks?

 

You say I'm a "stat hound" out of one side of your mouth but then try to use stats when talking out the other side to prove your point. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You said something patently false and I called you on it, and now you feel the need to attack me personally? You said Young beat up on inferior teams and did nothing against the better ones. That was a lie (or you just didn't know). Also having no sacks isn't the same as having no impact. Pressures, and teams having to keep extra guys in to block you makes a difference. 

 

And yes, not every pass rusher gets sacks every game, no matter the competition...that has to do with game planning, and other possible factors. Remember when that loser Khalil Mack (whatever happened to him, isn't he working at McDonalds now?) got zero sacks in his two most important games at the end of his college career? Or when that bum Von Miller started out his final year at A&M with four consecutive games with no sacks?

 

You say I'm a "stat hound" out of one side of your mouth but then try to use stats when talking out the other side to prove your point. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You said something patently false and I called you on it, and now you feel the need to attack me personally? You said Young beat up on inferior teams and did nothing against the better ones. That was a lie (or you just didn't know). Also having no sacks isn't the same as having no impact. Pressures, and teams having to keep extra guys in to block you makes a difference. 

 

And yes, not every pass rusher gets sacks every game, no matter the competition...that has to do with game planning, and other possible factors. Remember when that loser Khalil Mack (whatever happened to him, isn't he working at McDonalds now?) got zero sacks in his two most important games at the end of his college career? Or when that bum Von Miller started out his final year at A&M with four consecutive games with no sacks?

 

You say I'm a "stat hound" out of one side of your mouth but then try to use stats when talking out the other side to prove your point. 

 

 

[wtfskins]

Chase Young is for sure the biggest no brainer in the draft and there’s fans out there who don’t want him.  Someone explain this insanity.  That is some dumb ass ****. 

[Macster]

Just now, Macster said:

I guess we'll find out next year, won't we. We obviously have different opinions, which is fine, but I don't think he's as good as everyone says by my observations and the best player i saw on the field defensive wise was Okudah and then Simmons for Clemson. Young didn't do ANYTHING and dominant players find a way to make it happen. Three games in a row I didn't see anything special, 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

Hell. This thread has gone crazy tonight. All of a sudden, Chase young has a slow game and it looks like an RGIII vs. Cousins thread.

 

Young is the pick if he's there. Every pass rusher has games without sacks. Young dictates the entire pass blocking scheme and game plan. Might he bust? Sure. Lavar Arrington looked like a great prospect and was a bust. But, Young might also be a Von Miller, JJ Watt, Sean Taylor type hit. I really like Tua and Simmons and Okudah and Jeudy and Lamb, but none of them have been as good as Young. Everyone here needs to have a drink and calm down. 

[mistertim]

18 minutes ago, wtfskins said:

Dude has better grades than both Bosa brothers.  Name a dominant top 5 DE that has not lived up to there potential. I’ll name mine that are worth every penny  and you name your busts.  Khalil Mack, von Miller, Myles Garrett, Joey Bosa, jadaveon clowney, nick bosa.  Every year only 1 team has a chance to get a game changing pass rushing DE and you say NO.  Why would you even think that? I’m curious. 

 

Because he and ggarriso obviously are far better at pass rush talent evaluation than....I guess anyone else? PFF, coaches, film junkies, professional sports analysts, scouts. So yeah, definitely hard pass on Chase Young. Let's let the Giants get him so he can terrorize us twice a year for the next decade....much better option.

 

13 minutes ago, wtfskins said:

Chase Young is for sure the biggest no brainer in the draft and there’s fans out there who don’t want him.  Someone explain this insanity.  That is some dumb ass ****. 

 

It's just knee-jerk reactive nonsense. It's like when people scream BUST, CUT HIM!!! as soon as a rookie makes a mistake. 

[Mr. Sinister]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Hell. This thread has gone crazy tonight. All of a sudden, Chase young has a slow game and it looks like an RGIII vs. Cousins thread.

 

Young is the pick if he's there. Every pass rusher has games without sacks. Young dictates the entire pass blocking scheme and game plan. Might he bust? Sure. Lavar Arrington looked like a great prospect and was a bust. But, Young might also be a Von Miller, JJ Watt, Sean Taylor type hit. I really like Tua and Simmons and Okudah and Jeudy and Lamb, but none of them have been as good as Young. Everyone here needs to have a drink and calm down. 

 

Bro, we are truly broken

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Hell. This thread has gone crazy tonight. All of a sudden, Chase young has a slow game and it looks like an RGIII vs. Cousins thread.

 

Young is the pick if he's there. Every pass rusher has games without sacks. Young dictates the entire pass blocking scheme and game plan. Might he bust? Sure. Lavar Arrington looked like a great prospect and was a bust. But, Young might also be a Von Miller, JJ Watt, Sean Taylor type hit. I really like Tua and Simmons and Okudah and Jeudy and Lamb, but none of them have been as good as Young. Everyone here needs to have a drink and calm down. 

 

Thing is, he didn't really even have a "slow" game. He did have a bit of a slow first half but he was consistently beating his guys in the second. Problem was that Clemson had a really really good game plan against him (including Lawrence just straight up running away from him as soon as he got the ball and then making quick passes so Young never had a chance to get to him). I watched the game and I never saw him being "lazy". He may have taken a couple plays off (in the colloquial sense) but name a single pass rusher who never ever ever does that when a play isn't anywhere near him. That's like going nuts over a WR not blocking a guy hard enough when a play is completely on the other side of the field. 

 

But yeah this thread has gotten a bit nuts. I'm guessing there won't be a single coach or analyst or scout (real ones, not ES ones) who will have any change in their opinion of Young after tonight. 

[Mr. Sinister]

In several plays I saw, dude was beating double teams and still applying pressure. Other times he was being double teamed and being chipped, and all the other guys were killing it. That's what happens when you have an elite pass rusher on your team.  Wont always show in sack numbers. The whole defe se benefits.

 

Clemson is Clemson for a reason.

[Newera]

Burrow and Lawrence.    The next two first picks in the draft.   Pretty much a lock .

 

On another note, Clemson kind of stayed away from Chase.   Doubled him.  Chipped him.  Ran away.   I still would have liked to see a little more from him.

 

is he more Clowney  II.   Which is not bad.   But maybe not the hype.   He could be dominant on Skins.   Because our tackles are good bull rushers.  Chase is good at forcing the step up.   
 

Quarterbacks say they hate up the middle pressure the most.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, ggarriso said:

 

Posted this earlier and saw a similar pattern in the second half, he played ultra lazy today, if this is how he gets up for a big game count me out on wanting any part of it - #2 pick in the draft needs to be highly driven - the physical attributes tend to even out at the NFL level.  We already have one ohio state player that needed "help" getting motivated, we dont need another one.. PASS

 

 

 

[98ORAKPO98]

Julius Peppers supposedly "took plays off" but ended up being one of the best defensive players of all time. Young looked very good tonight, as mentioned earlier Lawrence was getting rid of the ball quick and scrambling away from him, but I watched Young on nearly every play and he had multiple pressures, was so close to getting multiple sacks and just about forced a fumble on the defensive touchdown that ohio state scored on but was called back for not being a catch. Also he probably would have been credited with a half sack if that targeting call wasn't called against the Ohio State player that roughed up Lawrence. Hopefully there will be a highlight tape of him against clemson to see how well he actually played so others can see.

[rabidskin]

trade down a few spots if possible and go for Ga. or Iowa's OT and maybe pick up a 2nd rd also.  We need a lot but we have to get a starter capable OT and a port-a-potty for Allen to stay in..  Moses always hurt and Penn might be too old. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Newera said:

Burrow and Lawrence.    The next two first picks in the draft.   Pretty much a lock .

 

On another note, Clemson kind of stayed away from Chase.   Doubled him.  Chipped him.  Ran away.   I still would have liked to see a little more from him.

 

is he more Clowney  II.   Which is not bad.   But maybe not the hype.   He could be dominant on Skins.   Because our tackles are good bull rushers.  Chase is good at forcing the step up.   
 

Quarterbacks say they hate up the middle pressure the most.

 

Yeah Clemson obviously really game planned like crazy for Young...which is honestly saying a lot considering how good they are in general. 

 

As far as Clowney I can see a bit of it from the raw athleticism angle (explosion, acceleration), but IMO Chase is more flexible, has looser hips, more refined technique, and bends the edge much better. Clowney was more of a pure speed to power guy and a bit stiffer. He also had a pretty down year as a junior when teams started doubling and chipping him much more, whereas teams started doubling/tripling and chipping Chase this season and all he did was continue to dominate. Clowney also had plenty of character and work ethic concerns which IMO is one of the reasons he never turned into the elite rusher he could have been. I've never read anything about Chase Young along those lines; I've always read that he's a very hard worker, good teammate, and is high character.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that with his speed and ability to bend the edge, Young was like a Von Miller in a Julius Peppers body, but Julius Peppers was 6'7 290. I'd say Young is closer to a Von Miller in Clowney's body (though I think Young is a bit thicker in his lower body than Clowney).

[Going Commando]

Young had a poor game by his standard.  We don't need to rationalize away the obvious.  Sometimes pass rushers don't have a huge impact on the games, no matter how good they are.  And he did look lethargic on his inside rushes and he committed a few mistakes.  He was confused by the Clemson attack and playing on his heels much of the night and he didn't seem dialed in like he has in some of his other games.  Athletic QBs and RBs can neutralize an edge rush.

 

The hype with Young was completely out of control. He's not going to singlehandedly turn around a defense -- no one player ever does.  Certainly not the ****ing Bosas.  All of those giddy expectations and narratives were fantasies.  And prospects are prospects.  Ndamukong Suh was a better prospect.  Solomon Thomas was a great prospect who destroyed his bowl game.  Being a great prospect is more about projecting a high floor than projecting the ceiling.  The best players in the league run the gamut of draft ranges.

 

That said, he's a 7.0 prospect and clearly the best non qb in the class and the best option for us at 2 if we can't trade down for a haul of picks.  He isn't perfect and he isn't some second coming of Lawrence Taylor and Julius Peppers put together and putting that **** on him is unfair and invites really dumb reactionary negativity when he inevitably falls short of those absurd expectations.

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, rabidskin said:

trade down a few spots if possible and go for Ga. or Iowa's OT and maybe pick up a 2nd rd also.  We need a lot but we have to get starter material OT.  Moses always hurt and Penn might be too old. 

 

I'm very very meh on Thomas as a top 5 pick. IMO he isn't even a top 10 pick. I've watched his games more closely recently and while he has some nice technique in pass pro he has problems finishing, especially in the run game. He also seems to lack any sort of mean streak. I think in a stronger OT class he'd be a late 1st. Whirfs is pretty good but he also mostly played on the right side IIRC. Will he be able to transition and excel as a LT in the NFL with much better pass rushers? Nice size and athleticism but some question marks. 

 

If we took Thomas at 2 or traded down a couple spots and took him I think it would be a HUGE reach and we'd be passing on a game changer in Young. I think he'll end up being a decent OT but nothing special. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

This is one of the few games against Dallas where I'm okay to lose for the greater good. Young or Burrow, we cannot go wrong with either one of them. Burrow can be traded for a haul or he can compete against Haskins. Either way, those are the two only choices imo.

[PartyPosse]

Chase looks like he could be easily neutralized. I’d rather trade down, get Okudah and JK Dobbins

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Chase looks like he could be easily neutralized. I’d rather trade down, get Okudah and JK Dobbins

 

Most teams/coaches/QBs he faced would heavily disagree with you. They basically all double teamed him (sometimes triple) or at the very least chipped him on most obvious pass plays and he still ended the season with 16.5 sacks, 21 TFL, and 7 forced fumbles. The only way Clemson "neutralized" him in some ways was by doubling him/chipping him and then basically running away from him while using a quick passing offense. To me if you have to alter your offense THAT much to stay away from ONE dude then he's been pretty effective whether he gets sacks or not. That being said, Clemson's offense is incredibly potent so they were still able to put up points, even if it wasn't as much as they usually do. 

 

If you have to game plan so much around one guy, you aren't neutralizing him so much as basically giving up half of your playbook. That's what a guy like that can do. It was like how teams constantly double or even triple teamed Calvin Johnson. Half the time it didn't matter because he'd catch it anyway but the other times every other guy had a much better chance to get wide open and the defense was limited in what they could do and the looks they could give. Or how a guy like Sean Taylor could basically shut down the entire back middle of the field and make it a no-go zone. Maybe he didn't end up with an INT but that's just because no QBs would throw anywhere near him. The effects of a superstar player trickle down into almost every other facet of the game. 

[cakmoney61]

I will let those who study film explain how well Young did or didn't do.  I didn't focus my attention on him, because I was too busy watching Lawrence who touched the ball on every play.  

 

I was enthralled with watching Clemson have enough offensive and defensive success to pull out a victory against a great football team.  Ohio States' defense was as fast and physical, and as violent as any college defense that I can recall watching.  They were very dominant and physically intimidating for a quarter and a half before losing that DB via disqualification.  In hindsight, losing him may have been the biggest or second biggest play of the game with the first being the overturned fumble return for a TD by the defense.  Even still, Ohio State felt like the better team most of the game. 

 

So a tip of the cap to Clemson who has perfected the art of winning.  

[KDawg]

Some of y’all are taking this way too seriously. 
 

Look, some don’t like Young. I’ve never seen a universally loved prospect in my life. Who cares?

 

Some think we’ve got talent at linebacker, which I think makes them legitimately crazy. But people are entitled to that.

 

But, if Bruce doesn’t get fired, this team is going to go to the podium at 2 and draft a punter to compete with Way anyways

 

Have some fun here.

 

Young has a quiet game. I watched the end of the third quarter and the fourth... (saw Star Wars, yes I liked it, please don’t take me over coals I have sensitive skin). I saw him taking double teams and moving around the DL, including playing inside in order to free up other rushers. I saw him burst off the LoS tremendously quickly only to have The Surf Ninja release the ball at a lightning pace. I saw him contain Lawrence a few times when he attempted to run outside. 
 

I also saw him get handled one versus one at times. I also saw a few plays where he looked tired. 
 

I see that all the time in the NFL. Even from the absolute best of the best. I’ve seen Aaron Donald look pedestrian.. spoiler alert... he’s not. 
 

I think Young, despite a statistically slow stat night, showed enough burst and ability to fight doubles that he is worthy of the second pick. I also think a trade back for a guy like Isaiah Simmons also showed to have some merit. Not on the CB train, but Okudah is tremendously talented. 
 

Everyone has their favorites. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't watch a lot of college football other than Maryland and he sat out that game.  So this was my first look at Chase Young.  Guy looks like a safety, I have never seen a smaller 265 in my life.  Is he really a defensive end?  

 

 

[philibusters]

I thought Chase Young had a solid game last night.  I think he will grade out fairly high (what you would expect out of a first or second round draft pick).   I only watched the first half but I saw at least 3 QB hurries and he was involved in a TFL on a run play.  

 

Compare it to basketball.   If Lebron James had gone to Ohio St. for a year he would have been considered a generational level talent and averaged something like 25 points 10 rebound, and 5 assists per game, but he still would have had nights where he went for 17 points, 8 rebounds, and 3 assists.  That would not have negated he was a generational talent.  I think that is the type of game Chase Young had last night when we see his grade.  He got a lot of QB pressures.  The offense really gameplanned around him much like any defense would have gameplanned for Lebron James and on this night it held Young in check and I am sure he was frustrated.  That said he still had at least 3 QB pressures in the first half alone when I was watching.

 

I think the hype gets out of proportion.  Young is not superhuman.  He is the best pass rushing prospect coming out of college of the last 20 years. People need to realize all the greats had games where they didn't dominate in college.

55 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't watch a lot of college football other than Maryland and he sat out that game.  So this was my first look at Chase Young.  Guy looks like a safety, I have never seen a smaller 265 in my life.  Is he really a defensive end?  

 

 

 

To me he has always looked thin, but he is somewhere between 6'5 and 6'6 so he would be a really really tall safety.  Yeah he is a rush end in a 4-3 or an OLB in a 3-4

[OtisDriftwood25]

Trade down. I like Chase young a lot but the motor was my issue. On Clemson last drive, Lawrence took off and Young jogged behind him. This is the biggest moment and that’s the effort he gives. Also multiple times like the 2 point conversion Lawrence was able to get around him. That should not happen with generational talent. I’m not bashing him at all but I do not see a franchise changer.