2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[philibusters]

6 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

What makes you think DT? We have Allen, Payne, and the Greek as an outstanding rotation for two starting DT spots and Settle has also played really well. I think we are really set along the whole DL with starters and backups. What pops out to me is OLB in a 4-3.

 

I was assuming one of Allen or Ion plays strongside DE.    But thinking about it more, I think you are right.  Given we have Sweat and Young both Allen and Ion  will likely go inside.

[Est.1974]

Damn I wish we had a couple more picks on day 1 or 2.

 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

What makes you think DT? We have Allen, Payne, and the Greek as an outstanding rotation for two starting DT spots and Settle has also played really well. I think we are really set along the whole DL with starters and backups. What pops out to me is OLB in a 4-3.

 

Allen at 3-tech and Payne as the 1-tech are good spots. Ioan playing some end in running situations (or a change of pace) and spelling Allen at 3-tech makes some sense. Not sure where exactly Settle... settles.

 

Kerrigan, Sweat, Orchard are the DE types.

 

Anderson at WILL as the rush linebacker. 

 

Lack of a reliable MIKE (Foster) and SAM is a bit troublesome. I could get behind Holcomb at MIKE given he'd have less coverage responsibility in the hopes that less pre-snap diagnosis makes him fill down hill quicker and gets him to the point of attack. He's smart, a sure tackler and has a motor. Just diagnoses slowly.

 

Issues become when Foster inevitably goes down and SDH/Bostic have to fill in at OLB. 

 

There's no depth in that set up for linebackers in my opinion. SAM, MIKE and WILL are thin. Biggest area of need in my opinion.

[SemperFi Skins]

Don't forget we also have Jordan Brailford (OLB/DL) who we drafted last season. He hasn't seen the field yet but we may end up giving him a shot as well.

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

What makes you think DT? We have Allen, Payne, and the Greek as an outstanding rotation for two starting DT spots and Settle has also played really well. I think we are really set along the whole DL with starters and backups. What pops out to me is OLB in a 4-3.

 

Allen will also need paying very soon. The Greek is on a good player/team friendly contract, likewise Payne on his rookie deal. Might have a decision to make on Allen if we shift to a 4-3.

[KDawg]

Just now, SemperFi Skins said:

Don't forget we also have Jordan Brailford (OLB/DL) who we drafted last season. He hasn't seen the field yet but we may end up giving him a shot as well.

 

Question is: Where does he fit?

[MisterPinstripe]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Allen will also need paying very soon. The Greek is on a good player/team friendly contract, likewise Payne on his rookie deal. Might have a decision to make on Allen if we shift to a 4-3.

Im excited to see what they all can do under a good defensive coach. Manusky in my mind just made everyone look way worse than they should. Im hoping Allen balls out under the right coach so much that we have to pay him good money.

[SemperFi Skins]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Question is: Where does he fit?

 

He may very well not have a spot. I think we may have a dogfight for spots on that front 7. I doubt there's anyone he could be outright for that spot.  I do think Kerrigan gets shipped if we end up with Young, leaving us at OLB/DE with Young/Sweat/Orchard/Anderson/Brailford (most likely PS)

[Ghedrick]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Question is: Where does he fit?

Can never have enough pass rushers.We are in a position of luxury at a premium position.Our front four is going to be absolutely stacked.We will need help on the back seven but a great dline will help compensate for their deficiencies.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Im excited to see what they all can do under a good defensive coach. Manusky in my mind just made everyone look way worse than they should. Im hoping Allen balls out under the right coach so much that we have to pay him good money.

 

I agree. I just hope with Bruce out of the way, we have a bit more of a forward thinking approach to roster management, especially with players approaching the end of their rookie deals in particular. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

He may very well not have a spot. I think we may have a dogfight for spots on that front 7. I doubt there's anyone he could be outright for that spot.  I do think Kerrigan gets shipped if we end up with Young, leaving us at OLB/DE with Young/Sweat/Orchard/Anderson/Brailford (most likely PS)

 

Can't group DE and OLB together in a 4-3, in my opinion.

 

Sweat, Kerrigan, Orchard are the DEs. Anderson is the WILL. 

 

We create a depth issue with the switch to 4-3 at the moment.

 

DE: Sweat, Kerrigan, Orchard

MIKE: Foster, Holcomb, Bostic, SDH

SAM: (Foster)

WILL: Anderson

[philibusters]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Question is: Where does he fit?

Good quesion on Jordan Brailford.

 

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Anderson at WILL as the rush linebacker. 

 

 

I mostly know his skill set as a pass rusher.   All LB's in a 4-3 have to be versatile in most 4-3 systems, so it will be interesting to see what he can do in that position.

[KDawg]

Just now, philibusters said:

Good quesion on Jordan Brailford.

 

 

I mostly know his skill set as a pass rusher.   All LB's in a 4-3 have to be versatile in most 4-3 systems, so it will be interesting to see what he can do in that position.

 

I don't love him at WILL. If there's a slot weak it means Anderson is bumped at the apex unless we consistently roll down a safety. But WILL is traditionally the rush backer spot as it's opposite the tight end side of the LOS. But motions mean he may have to take the tight end, and that's what I'd do to exploit him there.

[MisterPinstripe]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Can't group DE and OLB together in a 4-3, in my opinion.

 

Sweat, Kerrigan, Orchard are the DEs. Anderson is the WILL. 

 

We create a depth issue with the switch to 4-3 at the moment.

 

DE: Sweat, Kerrigan, Orchard

MIKE: Foster, Holcomb, Bostic, SDH

SAM: (Foster)

WILL: Anderson

Orchard was a big surprise for me, he has played very well since he joined. Sweat, Young, Kerrigan, and Orchard is a great group to me.

[KDawg]

The switch to a 4-3 is why I absolutely love Isaiah Simmons more than ever. He is versatile, can play inside, outside, free safety, etc. He likely wouldn't play most of those positions on a regular basis in the NFL, but he absolutely could play outside backer. He can rush, cover, fill. Perfect for either OLB spot. Traditionally he's small for a SAM... but in a league based on passing, I think size is less important (as long as you hold up relatively well at the POA and in college [yes it different than the NFL] he does...) and speed/athleticism is more important.

 

Prototypically I'd want a fast, strong, big SAM. But I'm not sure the prototype is always necessary. Size wise he fits with a Vilma type as a MIKE. He also fits as a WILL. He can play all three linebacker spots.

 

Young also fills a gap in depth. Can't go wrong with either guy. But regardless, a 4-3 switch leaves us with holes. Holes we can fill for sure. But holes.

[OVCChairman]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The switch to a 4-3 is why I absolutely love Isaiah Simmons more than ever. He is versatile, can play inside, outside, free safety, etc. He likely wouldn't play most of those positions on a regular basis in the NFL, but he absolutely could play outside backer. He can rush, cover, fill. Perfect for either OLB spot. Traditionally he's small for a SAM... but in a league based on passing, I think size is less important (as long as you hold up relatively well at the POA) and speed/athleticism is more important.

 

Prototypically I'd want a fast, strong, big SAM. But I'm not sure the prototype is always necessary. Size wise he fits with a Vilma type as a MIKE. He also fits as a WILL. He can play all three linebacker spots.

 

Young also fills a gap in depth. Can't go wrong with either guy. But regardless, a 4-3 switch leaves us with holes. Holes we can fill for sure. But holes.

 

 

I keep coming back to him.   Young is a dynamic talent from all that I can find, but Simmons is also an X-factor imho.  I have a feeling we are going to be seeing a lot from him wherever he lands... 

[philibusters]

What is Shaun Dion Hamilton's skill set.   He is not a big guy so potentially he could be a guy who both cover a TE and take on the block of teh TE against the run as the SAM.  Maybe you keep Holcomb and Bostic at MIKE and have Foster and SDH at SAM.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, philibusters said:

What is Shaun Dion Hamilton's skill set.   He is not a big guy so potentially he could be a guy who both cover a TE and take on the block of teh TE against the run as the SAM.  Maybe you keep Holcomb and Bostic at MIKE and have Foster and SDH at SAM.

 

Then what do you do at WILL? Anderson as a rush backer against a (rare) pro-set is fine. Anderson apexxing to a slot scares the **** out of me  

[philibusters]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Then what do you do at WILL? Anderson as a rush backer against a (rare) pro-set is fine. Anderson apexxing to a slot scares the **** out of me  

 

 

We are going to have add somebody via free agency or the draft.   Luckily 4-3 LB's are not a super expensive position in free agency.  Should be able to add somebody serviceable without breaking the bank.   Even somebody like Zach Brown who the Eagles released after bad mouthing Cousins would potentially be a fill in there.  Long term our fourth or fifth round pick this year may aim to solve hat issue, but short term you can probably find somebody who is reasonably priced in free agency.   

 

In terms of matching up against the slot, against 3 receivers, the majority of the time we we will be in the nickle.   We will only be in our base against 3 receiver sets if it could be either a pass or run down.  More problematic is can he cover a TE?

[crabbypatty]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The switch to a 4-3 is why I absolutely love Isaiah Simmons more than ever. He is versatile, can play inside, outside, free safety, etc. He likely wouldn't play most of those positions on a regular basis in the NFL, but he absolutely could play outside backer. He can rush, cover, fill. Perfect for either OLB spot. Traditionally he's small for a SAM... but in a league based on passing, I think size is less important (as long as you hold up relatively well at the POA and in college [yes it different than the NFL] he does...) and speed/athleticism is more important.

 

Prototypically I'd want a fast, strong, big SAM. But I'm not sure the prototype is always necessary. Size wise he fits with a Vilma type as a MIKE. He also fits as a WILL. He can play all three linebacker spots.

 

Young also fills a gap in depth. Can't go wrong with either guy. But regardless, a 4-3 switch leaves us with holes. Holes we can fill for sure. But holes.

Jack of all trades, master of none.

hybrid players scare me, because it's hard to find them a productive home in the NFL. They are rarely used correctly or to their strengths, and end up looking not so hot even with all that athletic ability and potential.

 

[arftech]

The team could possibly have 100M in cap space next year.  Fill the holes with quality young FAs.  The key is drafting a game changing player and that player is Young!

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

 

We are going to have add somebody via free agency or the draft.   Luckily 4-3 LB's are not a super expensive position in free agency.  Should be able to add somebody serviceable without breaking the bank.   Even somebody like Zach Brown who the Eagles released after bad mouthing Cousins would potentially be a fill in there.  Long term our fourth or fifth round pick this year may aim to solve hat issue, but short term you can probably find somebody who is reasonably priced in free agency.   

 

In terms of matching up against the slot, against 3 receivers, the majority of the time we we will be in the nickle.   We will only be in our base against 3 receiver sets if it could be either a pass or run down.  More problematic is can he cover a TE?

The SAM is typically to the TE side, aside from motion. So the premise of a slot versus a TE is similar. I don’t like Anderson in coverage. 
 

Having a slot doesn’t mean trips, though, to your point. Slot could be a doubles set, a twins open look, a simple twins set, etc.

 

Twins open is easy. Passing strength to the slot side. Put the best coverage OLB to that side. That would be out of 20 personnel. 10 / 11 personnel is where Anderson is problematic in space.

 

 

[redskinss]

15 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

Jack of all trades, master of none.

hybrid players scare me, because it's hard to find them a productive home in the NFL. They are rarely used correctly or to their strengths, and end up looking not so hot even with all that athletic ability and potential.

 

Our last attempt at bringing in a hybrid safety/linebacker certainly didn't turn out very well.

That's not to say it doesn't work just that recent events make me less giddy about it.

[philibusters]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The SAM is typically to the TE side, aside from motion. So the premise of a slot versus a TE is similar. I don’t like Anderson in coverage. 
 

Having a slot doesn’t mean trips, though, to your point. Slot could be a doubles set, a twins open look, a simple twins set, etc.

 

Twins open is easy. Passing strength to the slot side. Put the best coverage OLB to that side. That would be out of 20 personnel. 10 / 11 personnel is where Anderson is problematic in space.

 

 

 

i don't know a ton about football but wouldn't the LB's switch sides if an offensive player motion to switch which side of the formation was the strongside.

 

It seems to me in situations where you can either pass or run, from a pass defense perspective the strongside of the formation may be different than the strongside of the formation from a running perspective.   For example in a formation with 3 receivers a a TE with 2 receivers on one side and a receiver and TE on the other side, the side would with a TE would be the strongside from a run perspective, but the side with two receivers seems like the strong side from a pass perspective.  I don't know all that much about formations and alignments despite watching it for 30 years.