What is Wrong with Alex Smith?

[Commander -JB-]

56 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Eh, Justin Tucker would like a word with you.

Chip Lohmiller,’is that you?!

 

But seriously I'm not saying he's fully responsible for that record but cmon man, no matter how great of a team you play on, no way do teams that consistently win like that employ bad QB's for that long of a period lol

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just looked back at some pages on the Alex thread just now just to see if I wasn't losing it.  Because I recall a love fest by many about the different things and ways Alex can help the team win versus Kirk.   On Twitter I recall it even more intense -- I recall the height of it was some people were celebrating that Kirk wasn't ranked high in the top 100 best players ranking assuming that Alex was going to be ranked higher -- the kicker was he ultimately didn't make the 100 list at all. 

 

Edit

 

 

I just do not remember it being a lot of different people - and yes I am sure posts can be copied - but have to do both sides and then compare. But I stand by my memory that it was more a smaller contingent posting much more frequently. The larger part of people (not posts) on here being all that overly pro-Alex - it was more cautious optimism that some of the things Alex has been know to be good at will turn into a positive for the team. 

 

You are the second person to highlight Twitter as where a lot of the effusive love and support for Alex came from. So let me say this - I ****ing hate twitter and refuse to use it and therefore only read what is posted in here - and then only when it seems almost sane. So if there was a lot of that going on there, fair enough. I did not see it and will not see it. I am not sure if there is a more socially net negative media than twitter. I wish it were banned forever and anyone trying to resurrect it be sentenced to 365 days of 24/7 listening to Pee Wee Herman mixed with the The Safety Dance at 100 decibels. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

I just do not remember it being a lot of different people - and yes I am sure posts can be copied - but have to do both sides and then compare. But I stand by my memory that it was more a smaller contingent posting much more frequently. The larger part of people (not posts) on here being all that overly pro-Alex - it was more cautious optimism that some of the things Alex has been know to be good at will turn into a positive for the team. 

 

 

I just went back and looked, it depends on how you define the love.  You had some people saying it was an upgrade.  You had plenty talking about things that Alex does better than Kirk but without summarizing it as a macro upgrade or downgrade.  Just on a quick glance we had stuff like finally we got someone who can do better in the red zone.  Better leader. Takes more chances.  Winner. On and on.  Heck one of the guys posting on this thread -- said on one of those early pages that "a lot" of respected opinions think Alex is an upgrade over Kirk. 

 

The reason why I remember it well was my position on it was Alex was either a lateral move or a downgrade but not a significant downgrade -- and I'd add positive and negative reports I heard about him from different people who covered him -- and I recall that was not treated that warmly because there were plenty on that thread who were much higher on him.

 

Once the season started and Alex has been up and down -- mediocre.  People have backed off and moderated their position some.   But no that wasn't the prevailing vibe on that thread in the off season.  I'd say you had a pretty good mix of everything on that thread.    

 

I think though the larger point and in the defense of some of the people touting Alex that way -- it was sort of the message conveyed from the team both openly and to leaks to the media.  Jay with the without a doubt he's an improvement comment.  And how Alex allows him to open his play book.   FO people leaking to beat guys about how they think he's an improvement over Kirk -- Keim even wrote about it at some point.

 

Then you had some national figures -- some ironically close to Bruce who touted Alex was an improvement which some people gleefully posted about on that thread. Yeah the people on twitter were intense too, some of those people are members of this board, too.

 

The idea that Alex is an upgrade and the team might be better might seem like an extreme position at this moment -- and I'll grant that many have really backed off of their stances -- but it wasn't so extreme sounding in the off season. People were more intense back then.   I'll vouch for that coming from someone who got hammered for liking but not loving the dude. 

 

 

 

[goskins10]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just went back and looked, it depends on how you define the love.  You had some people saying it was an upgrade.  You had plenty talking about things that Alex does better than Kirk but without summarizing it as a macro upgrade or downgrade.  Just on a quick glance we had stuff like finally we got someone who can do better in the red zone.  Better leader. Takes more chances.  Winner. On and on.  Heck one of the guys posting on this thread -- said on one of those early pages that "a lot" of respected opinions think Alex is an upgrade over Kirk. 

 

The reason why I remember it well was my position on it was Alex was either a lateral move or a downgrade but not a significant downgrade -- and I'd add positive and negative reports I heard about him from different people who covered him -- and I recall that was not treated that warmly because there were plenty on that thread who were much higher on him.

 

Once the season started and Alex has been up and down -- mediocre.  People have backed off and moderated their position some.   But no that wasn't the prevailing vibe on that thread in the off season.  I'd say you had a pretty good mix of everything on that thread.    

 

I think though the larger point and in the defense of some of the people touting Alex that way -- it was sort of the message conveyed from the team both openly and to leaks to the media.  Jay with the without a doubt he's an improvement comment.  And how Alex allows him to open his play book.   FO people leaking to beat guys about how they think he's an improvement over Kirk -- Keim even wrote about it at some point.

 

Then you had some national figures -- some ironically close to Bruce who touted Alex was an improvement which some people gleefully posted about on that thread. Yeah the people on twitter were intense too, some of those people are members of this board, too.

 

The idea that Alex is an upgrade and the team might be better might seem like an extreme position at this moment -- and I'll grant that many have really backed off of their stances -- but it wasn't the vibe in the off season. People were more intense back then.   I'l vouch for that coming from someone who got hammered for liking but not loving the dude. 

 

 

 

 

Here is where the problem comes in, especially for my interpretation. The claim was being made the "a lot of people" were claiming Alex was a major upgrade over Kirk. There were some people saying there are things Alex does better than Kirk. I listed a few myself. But I have been very consistent that at best Alex is neutral or a slight downgrade. I was in many of those same conversations as you were. On a side note - I remember the RZ comment because I immediately looked at the numbers and noticed that was a big no! But I digress.

 

This goes back to my original post that just because you identify some things you think Alex can do a little better than Kirk does not equal they think Alex is better than Kirk. The same goes the other way - not everyone that points out Alex's faults thinks he is useless.

 

As for the FO - yes they were peddling that BS. But did anyone really believe that? And how does that get put o nth people in here that actually some positive things about Alex? How are they responsible for what people on twitter and in the FO say? Right now I see them getting lumped.

 

But just like the did he or didn't he want to be here crazy ass discussion - this one has run it's course, at least for me.

 

I am and have always been in the camp to let things play out some before jumping to a conclusion. Yea, Alex's play is not stellar by any means. But it's not been as bad as some are making it out to be. And the bright side is that even without him playing his best they have found ways to win. Let's hope that keeps going against NY.

 

The giants may be one of the few things I hate more than twitter!

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:03 PM, Warhead36 said:

Combination of his natural conservative playstyle coupled with a really bad set of skill players and a coach that isn't doing a good job calling/designing offense right now.

You sortof ended the thread with the truth in the second post, and it's battered on now for days with nothing coming close to this completey accurate portrayal of the situation.

 

I will add that for whatever reason he is also having accuracy issues.  Say what you want about the guy, he did not miss wide open guys like he missed Sprinkle very often.  That's the one part that's new and is concerning.  It's one thing to check down all the time, it's another to just flat miss dudes who are open.  If a guy is open, and you see him, you've got to him him.

 

 

On 10/22/2018 at 2:41 PM, superozman said:

I2.  Alex Smith loves to get the ball out quick.  Coupled with a coach who is hesitant to go deep, that means we are seeing a lot of passes within 15 yards in the air.

 

Interesting, I've noticed that he's actually very hesitant in quick game. 3-steps and throw should be his bread and butter, but he's not trusting his eyes or receivers yet.  It's 3 steps, pause, throw, and often the rush gets there or the throw is late and coverage has come over.

 

This is not something I expected in quick game. 

 

On 10/22/2018 at 4:50 PM, Vladimir L said:

should we kick the tires on Derek Carr in the Raiders fire sale?

 

maybe give them alex smith and a 2nd round draft pick

So in that scenario, to replace Kirk, we would have traded a 3rd, whatshisname (DB who went to KC), another 2nd, and the player we got from the first trade.

 

It's not quite the RG3 debacle, but at that point, you're getting close.

 

Oh, and Car has the yips more than Alex at the moment...

 

I do wonder, however, is Jon's system the same as Jay's?  Learning curve might not be TOO long, but I have no idea.  Does Jay run the Spider 2 Y Banana?

 

 

On 10/24/2018 at 1:04 PM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

He's playing exactly as he has always played. Actually, he's been slightly better than I expected.

 

I mean, I dread every moment of the next three years, because this is a miserable brand of football to watch, but he's playing on brand right now.

 

Seriously, none of you dum dums gamble or watch other games? This is a shock to you?

I love it when you call us dum dums.  Makes me warm inside. 

 

On 10/24/2018 at 1:04 PM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

No he won't.

 

The great thing about Alex Smith is that he never gets better and he never gets worse.

 

He simply is.

As they say, it is what it is.

 

On 10/24/2018 at 1:52 PM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I'm so damn smart.

Humble too, if nobody has mentioned that.  It's a great personality trait of yours...

 

6 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Kirk tried to work with Bruce TO BE HERE.

 

Bruce didn't.

Well, yeah, he tried at first, then he didn't.  Whatever.  Who cares.  He's not here now.

3 hours ago, justice98 said:

He seems a step slower than he used to be.  

I didn't see which DE ran him down from behind last week, but somebody did.  And that made me sad. 

[MassSkinsFan]

On 10/24/2018 at 5:21 PM, Warhead36 said:

Carr? Really? Do people not even watch football? He's been horrendous this year. He's the biggest reason the Raiders have one lousy win and that was in OT barely against the Browns.

 

We should set our sights higher... get Chase Daniels back from the Bears! ?

 

I shouldn’t discourage these guys. By all means let’s trade for Tom Brady!!! ?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Here is where the problem comes in, especially for my interpretation. The claim was being made the "a lot of people" were claiming Alex was a major upgrade over Kirk. There were some people saying there are things Alex does better than Kirk. I listed a few myself. But I have been very consistent that at best Alex is neutral or a slight downgrade. I was in many of those same conversations as you were. On a side note - I remember the RZ comment because I immediately looked at the numbers and noticed that was a big no! But I digress.

 

 

 

 

You are one of my favorite posters here.  So I mean this in good spirits, but I'd have to be a bit dense if I am reading posts while also having no concept of context and intensity of points being made especially when many of these people engaged me directly.  Based on your description, everyone talked up somethings that Alex can do some things better including me.  So that's not what I am talking about.

 

That's way different than a heavy handed post on said subject.  And yes, I can tell the difference I'd presume at least most of the time.  I can read a mood of a thread.  Sometimes my mood fits the prevailing thought, sometimes not.  On the Bruce thread for example, my take fits what a lot of others think.  The cool position is Bruce is bad.   And some that feel differently on that subject can get annoyed by it because they feel ganged up.  

 

Now as to the Alex thread the tone has changed since the season started (how couldn't it based on how he played?) but that wasn't always the case in the off season.  so I can understand the recency effect kicking in here where people are judging it exclusively by the season versus the off season.   Heck my position of Alex is a good QB albeit not a great one and a slight downgrade from Kirk -- right now actually based on the current tone of the discussion makes me look NOW as adopting a big time Alex homer position -- let alone I am also among the crowd of give the dude a chance. 

 

So in that context, right now, I am probably in the top 5% upper echelon crowd of having Alex's back in a big way, ironically.  Though I am not selling he's been good or comparing his progress adjusting to an offense like a rookie or young QB -- I vehemently disagree with that analogy and I think in an odd way it kind of makes him look weak.  So I think I actually have his back by not accepting that analogy.  But I do agree that it might take him some time to find his stride for whatever reason.

 

However, in the off season, I was considered no Alex homer on the thread then with the same position I have now.  Then it was closer to a hater position because to some I was raining on their parade by sharing both the positive AND negative takes I was hearing about Alex. And I liked but not loved the dude.

 

I was called out by three different people for being a hater of him.  And yeah I get your point that the extremism might have been somewhat driven by a new founded thing on the board where a QB elicits so much emotion and loyalty where fans jump from team to team to support him and become overnight Redskins fans -- talk about devotion to a dude, wow.  We didn't get that with Brunell and McNabb. So yeah I agree that's a different level of intensity.  But there was definitely a love fest beyond that poster (and it was basically just one of the KC guys who came off over the top to me).

 

And, I am not really blaming anyone for it -- it comes with the turf with a new sexy acquisition.  But at the same time, in my book that love fest did indeed happen and it wasn't my imagination where i was just reading into just some run of the mill complements as something bigger than that.

 

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are one of my favorite posters here.  So I mean this in good spirits, but I'd have to be a bit dense if I am reading posts while also having no concept of context and intensity of points being made especially when many of these people engaged me directly.  Based on your description, everyone talked up somethings that Alex can do some things better including me.  So that's not what I am talking about.

 

That's way different than a heavy handed post on said subject.  And yes, I can tell the difference I'd presume at least most of the time.  I can read a mood of a thread.  Sometimes my mood fits the prevailing thought, sometimes not.  On the Bruce thread for example, my take fits what a lot of others think.  The cool position is Bruce is bad.   And some that feel differently on that subject can get annoyed by it because they feel ganged up.  

 

Now as to the Alex thread the tone has changed since the season started (how couldn't it based on how he played?) but that wasn't always the case in the off season.  so I can understand the recency effect kicking in here where people are judging it exclusively by the season versus the off season.   Heck my position of Alex is a good QB albeit not a great one and a slight downgrade from Kirk -- right now actually based on the current tone of the discussion makes me look NOW as adopting a big time Alex homer position -- let alone I am among the crowd of give the dude a chance.  So in that context, right now, I am probably in the top 5% crowd of having Alex's back, ironically.  Though I am not selling he's been good or comparing his progress adjusting to an offense like a rookie or young QB -- I vehemently disagree with that analogy.  But I do agree that it make take him some time to find his stride for whatever reason.

 

However, in the off season, I was considering no Alex homer on the thread then with the same position I have now.  Then it was closer to a hater position because to some I was raining on their parade by sharing both the positive AND negative takes I was hearing about Alex. And I liked but not loved the dude.

 

I was called out by three different people for being a hater of him.  And yeah I get your point that the extremism might have been somewhat driven by a new founded thing on the board where a QB elicits so much emotion and loyalty where fans jump from team to team to support him -- talk about devotion to a dude, wow. 

 

But on that front it was really just one dude that was over the top about it.  Aside from him, there were Redskins fans driving the point too and yes I can tell the difference between nod of hey we like this to intense enthusiasm  And yeah some of them outright said Alex is likely better.   I was called out by three different people on that thread for being a hater for in effect not sharing the level of their intensity as to believing in Alex.  And yeah that doesn't happen to me that often so its hard to forget.  ?

 

 

 

First, thank you for the kind words. I feel the same way. Always enjoy reading your posts - you remain very composed and on point when others are flailing about. Very good trait to have. 

 

I think you may have misunderstood the first part, which could very be due to how I worded it. That was not what I was saying at all. In fact I was not making any comments on your position at all. Also was not implying you could not tell the difference - just in your interpretation of the response - reading this it may even sound worse like you are more sensitive - so let me squash that right now. As I stated above you are anything but overly sensitive. We may have just seen it differently. And in fairness you engaged more than I did and were on the board a lot more than I. So if I missed the others that were over the top then fair enough. 

 

I do remember you being called an Alex hater for pointing out he was unlikely to be an upgrade. If I am being honest I literally laughed out loud when it happened. It was pretty ridiculous. 

 

Anyway, hope that clears some of that up. 

[Commander -JB-]

Jesus, did I read that someone suggest we give up a 2nd rounder and Alex Smith for Derek Carr??? Vinny, is that you??! ?

[Morneblade]

9 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Jesus, did I read that someone suggest we give up a 2nd rounder and Alex Smith for Derek Carr??? Vinny, is that you??! ?

 

Vinny would offer a 1st

Allen would offer a 3rd.

Maybe that's a Vinny/Bruce love child?

[skinsfan35yrs.]

11 hours ago, purbeast said:

I can't believe how many people on this board are still stuck on Kirk.  He's gone guys.  He's never coming back and he never wanted to be here.  Move on.  He has.

word!

[mojo]

Ami I disappointed w Smith so far? Yes.  But, I do think he will improve, it’s just a matter of time with him getting used to Grudens system as well as Gruden getting used to Alex. He’s never going to be the gunslinger Cousins was and I’m fine with that.  I’m fine without the 300yd games if he keeps protecting the ball. That said, he has to start hitting the open plays that are there and I think he eventually will.

 If this defense keeps progressing and Alex hits his groove, this could be a fun year.

[bakedtater1]

The Redskins are 4-2, in first place in the division and ALEX SMITH is not turning the ball over..have any y'all thought to step back and think..what the ****s wrong with me?

[Commander -JB-]

2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

The Redskins are 4-2, in first place in the division and ALEX SMITH is not turning the ball over..have any y'all thought to step back and think..what the ****s wrong with me?

Very very underrated stat is to have an exceptionally low turnover rate as a QB over a long period of time, consistently. Yes he made a terrible pass trying to hit Sprinkle in the end zone.  But when you do not compound that with inexplicable turnovers, you can survive those.  

[bowhunter]

31 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Very very underrated stat is to have an exceptionally low turnover rate as a QB over a long period of time, consistently. Yes he made a terrible pass trying to hit Sprinkle in the end zone.  But when you do not compound that with inexplicable turnovers, you can survive those.  

It would be nice on occasion for our O to tell the Defense "Y'all sit this one out, we got this one."  When you've played 6 games and a Defensive Tackle is tied for 4th in scoring, you've become one dimensional. I still have hope for Alex, but I wonder if McCoy was playing would our offensive production look any differently....and NO, I'm not suggesting that Colt be made starter.

[dckey]

I just don't understand!!!  Is Kirk better than Alex YES!!!!   Does that matter???  NO  If Kirk throws for more than 1000 yards and has 10 TD's more but 7 INT more we would probably be looking at the same record.  What matters is W's and L's.  Alex is controlling the clock better, our 3rd down percentage is better.  ALot of this can be contributed to checking it down and keeping us in more 3rd and shorts.  Would Kirk been better against NO yes, would we have a better chance in shoot-out games with Kirk yes, but I think our defense which is not elite and still shows vulnerabilities against the pass is better with an Alex type of QB.  Keeping them fresh as possible really helps them out.  Our defense has not been able to hold people late in games.  We were 21st in TOP in 2017 and now we're 2nd.  I know that the way he plays is not meant for this air it out driven league, but it could still lead to more wins, which is all I care about!!!!

[bakedtater1]

33 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

It would be nice on occasion for our O to tell the Defense "Y'all sit this one out, we got this one."  When you've played 6 games and a Defensive Tackle is tied for 4th in scoring, you've become one dimensional. I still have hope for Alex, but I wonder if McCoy was playing would our offensive production look any differently....and NO, I'm not suggesting that Colt be made starter.

I totally get where ur coming from...i.too would love to see 91 out there all over again...can we start Colt in Dallas on turkey day?..he knows how to win there...not saying alex don't.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'd actually be willing to take a risk on Carr, because no QB's faults can be blamed on him when his coach is a Gruden.

 

<Long Pause>

 

Oh, son of a ……….

[TD_washingtonredskins]

16 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So in that scenario, to replace Kirk, we would have traded a 3rd, whatshisname (DB who went to KC), another 2nd, and the player we got from the first trade.

 

It's not quite the RG3 debacle, but at that point, you're getting close.

 

 

 

I need to chime in here...only on the compensation. To be clear, I don't want them to make this trade and don't expect that they will. However, a 2nd, 3rd, and Fuller for Derek Carr isn't even approaching the RG3 trade. For one, Carr is a known quantity (maybe not great, but has already demonstrated more NFL upside and is young). Secondly, the 3 assets are ALL less valuable than the 3 assets we traded for Griffin. 

[Audible_Red40]

Because this thread makes me quiver about Alex, I have the solution.

 

Bring in Colin Kaepernick!!  Super Bowl Bound.  History will repeat itself.

 

Alex Smith knows first hand what happens when Kap takes over for him.  They get to the Super Bowl.  As a team player he should be all for this.

 

Then he can sail off and Kap can start next year and Colt can back him up just as he did in 2013 when Smith left.

 

It's the only reasonable way for this thread to end.

[ThomasRoane]

5 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

The Redskins are 4-2, in first place in the division and ALEX SMITH is not turning the ball over..have any y'all thought to step back and think..what the ****s wrong with me?

 

Is the team goal now to just win the NFC East and make the playoffs?  If that's your idea of success then you've been Snyderized.  Those of us who were active fans in the Redskin's Super Bowl winning era aren't satisfied with playoffs.  We want the team to contend for Super Bowls.  I suggest you go back and re-watch the debacle vs the Saints.  That's what the team should aspire to.  That is the bar to measure this team with.  With the passing game so God awful this Redskin's team would be crushed by the Rams, Saints, or Vikings in the playoffs.

 

I'm really hoping that with an easier schedule coming up Alex can get his mojo back and play like an above average QB.  Because if he can't this team as currently built is NOT a contender. 

[RandyHolt]

Nothing is wrong, why do you ask

 

[bakedtater1]

3 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

 Rams, Saints, or Vikings in the playoffs.

 

Wanna go a thousand on any of these games?

And I was around during the Superbowl eras..take back what ya said about being snyderized..

And you must not have paid much attention to the capital defense then in our last Super Bowl year...yes I have confidence a Smith and the passing offense will turn it around.. might not be like mark and the Posse but close enough..

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Wanna go a thousand on any of these games?

And I was around during the Superbowl eras..take back what ya said about being snyderized..

And you must not have paid much attention to the capital defense then in our last Super Bowl year...yes I have confidence a Smith and the passing offense will turn it around.. might not be like mark and the Posse but close enough..

I know you were talking to someone else, but...

 

I don’t bet for or against the Redskins, but I wouldn’t go running around offering that bet in public.  Folks will easily take you up on that.

 

As for “but close enough” to Mark and the Posse...

 

? pass that stuff your smokin!

[wit33]

10 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Is the team goal now to just win the NFC East and make the playoffs?  If that's your idea of success then you've been Snyderized.  Those of us who were active fans in the Redskin's Super Bowl winning era aren't satisfied with playoffs.  We want the team to contend for Super Bowls.  I suggest you go back and re-watch the debacle vs the Saints.  That's what the team should aspire to.  That is the bar to measure this team with.  With the passing game so God awful this Redskin's team would be crushed by the Rams, Saints, or Vikings in the playoffs.

 

I'm really hoping that with an easier schedule coming up Alex can get his mojo back and play like an above average QB.  Because if he can't this team as currently built is NOT a contender. 

 

Theres level to this. Yes, right now getting to playoffs would be amazing and receiving an at bat in a sport that only requires to be better than other team on one day, is alllll good. There are only 4-6 elite QBs in the world, other strategies must be applied if you don’t got one. I’m okay with knowing the Skins must possess the ball most like for 35 plus minutes against Rams, Saints to have a chance in a playoff game this year. The Rams have loaded up roster behind a rookie pay scale, while Saints are led by an elite QB who has decided to take less money towards end of career. Those are strategies being applied and successfully, but not the only way. 

 

Also, value of making playoffs has increased in my view than the glory days of the Skins. In the 80s and 90s there were much larger gaps in rosters, money of each team, resources allowing for teams to dominate for extended period of times. It appears many attempt to devalue playoffs in here, due to past history of Super Bowls

 

Step 1 is winning division or securing a playoff spot. 

 

5-2 is on the horizon!