What is Wrong with Alex Smith?

[RedskinsLegacy]

21 hours ago, CTskin said:

  22 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Is the team goal now to just win the NFC East and make the playoffs?  If that's your idea of success then you've been Snyderized.  Those of us who were active fans in the Redskin's Super Bowl winning era aren't satisfied with playoffs.  We want the team to contend for Super Bowls.  I suggest you go back and re-watch the debacle vs the Saints.  That's what the team should aspire to.  That is the bar to measure this team with.  With the passing game so God awful this Redskin's team would be crushed by the Rams, Saints, or Vikings in the playoffs.

Good god man you are a bummer. We're a 4-2 smashmouth, beating asses in the trenches football team. Just ****ing enjoy it.

 

That being said, the "easier" schedule coming up will be a problem for us. Through six games it's becoming clear that our rushing offense and defense is top notch, but our passing offense and defense is not. Hopefully we will magically start clicking before the ATL and TB games because if not, I don't see us getting away with two wins. 

 

I can say all of that with a smile on my face because no matter what the projection is, we're sitting pretty right now and I can talk as much **** as I want to Cowboy fans.

I agree with both lol. I love the winning but I want to be a legit Super Bowl contender. If this team can get the Receivers involved, we will take that step the way our Defense is playing.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, RedskinsLegacy said:

I agree with both lol. I love the winning but I want to be a legit Super Bowl contender. If this team can get the Receivers involved, we will take that step the way our Defense is playing.

 

Yep.   We have to be able to play from behind. We cannot expect our first half run offense to carry us all year.

 

Different play calling may help.  I am still surprised Jay abhors hurry up even when getting blown out, and the base offense/game plan practiced all week, ineffective.  Letting Josh run his best plays from college is a solid first step to try and get SOMETHING out of our WRs.

[Skinsinparadise]

Cooley's take on his play, summarized here for those interested

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/26/chris-cooley-gives-alex-smith-c-grade-dallas-game/?utm_term=.82deb3ab0d7e

[RandyHolt]

Alex and the WRs are probably still working out timing.  How many WRs has Alex had over the past 2 months... 9?  That's a lot of dudes running a lot of routes.  It's not just WRs, CT has missed time that is probably his best bud.  Crowder I had projected to be his fav... out.

 

So I wonder if keeping a thin play book for the WRs would help.  Does Jay have reasonable expectations on his WRs, or are they struggling and Alex's's over throws are actually to where the WR should be. Smith 33 and a 24 yr old WR if not on the same page, everyone is going to assume it's the kids fault.  Maybe not but still Alex needs to work out the nuances within a guys best routes, and Jay could run those plays. Keep it simple Jay.

 

He seems on the same page with Doctson on the skinny slant ?? after a few nice grabs last week. I am calling that as our first pass/play.

[Skinsinparadise]

Desean Jackson asking for a trade. if I recall it was D. Hall who said that Desean told him last year that he wanted to come back to the Redskins because we used him and Tampa didn't.  Is the idea as appealing to him with Alex?  Not sure.  but if Alex wants a guy like Tyreek Hill who is open by a mile where he doesn't have any fear to throw their way because the seperation is super obvious -- Desean is the closest version of that IMO.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000978791/article/desean-jackson-requested-trade-from-buccaneers

[skinsmania123]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Desean Jackson asking for a trade. if I recall it was D. Hall who said that Desean told him last year that he wanted to come back to the Redskins because we used him and Tampa didn't.  Is the idea as appealing to him with Alex?  Not sure.  but if Alex wants a guy like Tyreek Hill who is open by a mile where he doesn't have any fear to throw their way because the seperation is super obvious -- Desean is the closest version of that IMO.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000978791/article/desean-jackson-requested-trade-from-buccaneers

How the hell is Alex Smith gong to get the ball to him?  That is beyond laughable. 

[RandyHolt]

I am skeptical on DeSean, unless the price is right and we do something about that contract.  Former players that know the playbook is enticing, but GMDW needs to carefully determine - can Alex utilize him.  More than a reverse to get him the ball.  Sadly, I haven't see much evidence of that and fear we may actually use him less than Tampa does, and no less correctly. And a full assessment needs to be done on Richardson WRT what would our offense look like with he and DJ.  And, his injuries. I love the idea of 2 deep threats but think the playbook only has room for one.

 

Can we get Tampa to eat any of his contract? I know it can be done in the NHL. 

[RedskinsLegacy]

20 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Yep.   We have to be able to play from behind. We cannot expect our first half run offense to carry us all year.

 

Different play calling may help.  I am still surprised Jay abhors hurry up even when getting blown out, and the base offense/game plan practiced all week, ineffective.  Letting Josh run his best plays from college is a solid first step to try and get SOMETHING out of our WRs.

Agree, our running game will not be enough to beat teams like NO, Rams or Vikings. Only a balanced offense will give us that chance.

[Rex Tomb]

We need to get Smith on the run a bit more - roll outs, bootlegs, RPOs.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

How the hell is Alex Smith gong to get the ball to him?  That is beyond laughable. 

 

I am far from among those that are selling that Alex has played well. He hasn't played well.   But I think we are getting carried away that he can't get a deep ball to anyone -- last year he did fine in that department.  My point is Tyreek Hill was way open on those passes and Alex seemed confident to fling it deep in that context.  Closest version to me for Hill is D. Jax.

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I am skeptical on DeSean, unless the price is right and we do something about that contract.  Former players that know the playbook is enticing, but GMDW needs to carefully determine - can Alex utilize him.  More than a reverse to get him the ball.  Sadly, I haven't see much evidence of that and fear we may actually use him less than Tampa does, and no less correctly. And a full assessment needs to be done on Richardson WRT what would our offense look like with he and DJ.  And, his injuries. I love the idea of 2 deep threats but think the playbook only has room for one.

 

Can we get Tampa to eat any of his contract? I know it can be done in the NHL. 

 

Tampa eats half of his contract for the year, next year his contract isn't guaranteed.  I recall one of the plot lines before we let D. Jax go was -- some said he made the whole passing game better because you have to shade a safety his way -- that opened things up for Jordan Reed and Crowder.  The counter to that was some in the building told some of the beat guys that Crowder is the best receiver on the team so just you watch when he becomes the go to guy.  Looks like the D-Jax makes everyone better crowd was correct. 

 

 D. Hall talked about it from a CB side of things saying D. Jax scares the heck out of corners more than any type of player because the nightmare for any corner is to be burned deep.  So you play off more than you should.  A safety shades that way more than they should.  He makes everyone better.   Personally, I was among the people who didn't want him to go in FA.  I am a D. Jax guy. 

 

Do I think Alex can get him him the ball like Kirk?  Nope.  Kirk to me looks like distinctly the better QB and plays with more moxie than Alex.  But, would D. Jax open things up for everyone else and maybe lead Alex to play with more moxie -- perhaps.  When you watch the highlights of Alex throwing to Hill last year, Hill was often so open it was ridiculous.   D. Jax to me is the one dude who is capable of getting that open.

 

Edit:  saw somewhere no guaranteed next year, then saw 9 million guaranteed next year.  Either way he's a game changer.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skinsmania123]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am far from among those that are selling that Alex has played well. He hasn't played well.   But I think we are getting carried away that he can't get a deep ball to anyone -- last year he did fine in that department.  My point is Tyreek Hill was way open on those passes and Alex seemed confident to fling it deep in that context.  Closest version to me for Hill is D. Jax.

Because Reid forced Alex to go to his lightening receiver Hill.  I absolutely believe based upon what I am seeing here, that those plays to Hill were designed plays, and Alex had no choice IMO.  Reid called those plays and said just throw it.   I mean I am not 100% sure what Reid said in a recent press conference but it was about taking chances.  I think it was a total stab at Alex.   It is so hard for me to watch Alex play.  I gave Cousins such a hard time, but I kept seeing improvement.  Alex???? Can't even get the ball in the EZ on the 5 YARD LINE!!!!!  And there are posters on here talking about timing and YET those same posters want us to get more receivers. Are you kidding me.

 

  Jay and Alex are very alike in their conservative approach to the game.   The way the NFL is built today we are headed towards a beat down or letdown if we think every game the D will bail us out.   You have to throw down field for no other reason then to keep the D honest. 

 

  I mean geez Alex is so bad, so slow, so happy feet, just so uncomfortable in that pocket.   It is like watching a rookie play with very little perceivable upside.  And the turnovers will happen when he is forced to throw the ball downfield or we confront a D line that is decent like the Saints.  And no one is going to convince me that it is timing.  It is called fear man.  And the thought of wasting DeSean Jackson here just makes me sick.  He wants away from the Bucs because Winston can't get the ball to him.  

 

And all the bull**** about Doctson on here and the guy just played so well last week, and YET Alex kept missing him.  He had to throw slants.  And he kept missing on long balls to him as the dude laid out for them.  Okay Alex you both can't and won't throw the ball downfield okay.  I get it. 

 

But at least GO to Reed on your little dinks and dunks and throw a slant to  HIM in the EZ. 

 

Look I want improvement from Alex. I will be the first to say GREAT GAME Alex if he would just have one.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

  Jay and Alex are very alike in their conservative approach to the game.   The way the NFL is built today we are headed towards a beat down or letdown if we think every game the D will bail us out.   You have to throw down field for no other reason then to keep the D honest. 

 

 

Not sure about the Jay conservative stuff.  He's definitely conservative with a lead but that's a different subject. Kirk last year joked that if he played the way Jay wanted him to he'd have like 25 interceptions or something like that and Jay's response when asked about this said yeah but he'd have 60 Tds, too.  

 

I've heard several beat guys say Jay privately is frustrated by Alex's play.  Andy Benoit said in the off season studying Jay's style that Alex's conservative tendencies will drive him nuts -- to him Kirk was much more aggressive whereas for Alex guys had to be open for him to throw to receivers -- to him Kirk throws with anticipation and Alex doesn't for the most part.  

 

I've heard multiple times by different beat guy including the other day that people in the building overreacted from the Giants loss in the 2016 season that likely led to the acrimonious negotiations to start in 2017 and the rest is history.  So they have Alex now.  And my best guess is they believed their own hype about how these 2017 passes to Tyreek Hill is the new Alex for good and he will be more aggressive than Kirk.  And I think they are privately shocked that it hasn't gone down that way.  Even though some who covered Alex's career closely warned on this front.   Just my theory from piecing together different narratives. 

 

5 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 You have to throw down field for no other reason then to keep the D honest. 

 

 

I've heard Jay specifically talk about how D. Jax change coverage for everyone.  I've heard multiple times he led the push to resign him.  D. Jax himself joked at the time that Jay kept sending him text messages to sell him to stay.

 

11 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

Look I want improvement from Alex. I will be the first to say GREAT GAME Alex if he would just have one.

 

 

 

Trust me I am skeptical at the moment about Alex.  I am underwhelmed.  I am not even trying to sell he's going to get better.  I don't know.  But I do get the give him more time crowd.  IMO there is a point to that.  Will see.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I think it was Cooley who said Alex treats the ball like it’s made of solid gold. ?

[skinsmania123]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure about the Jay conservative stuff.  He's definitely conservative with a lead but that's a different subject. Kirk last year joked that if he played the way Jay wanted him to he'd have like 25 interceptions or something like that and Jay's response when asked about this said yeah but he'd have 60 Tds, too.  

 

I've heard several beat guys say Jay privately is frustrated by Alex's play.  Andy Benoit said in the off season studying Jay's style that Alex's conservative tendencies will drive him nuts -- to him Kirk was much more aggressive whereas for Alex guys had to be open for him to throw to receivers -- to him Kirk throws with anticipation and Alex doesn't for the most part.  

 

I've heard Jay specifically talk about how D. Jax change coverage for everyone.  I've heard multiple times he led the push to resign him.  D. Jax himself joked at the time that Jay kept sending him text messages to sell him to stay.

 

 

I remember Kirk saying that.  I also remember the article about how Alex's conservative style would drive him nuts.

 

 So do you think it is possible that JAY is so uncomfortable with Alex that he is calling these dinks and dunks and relying on the run game because he does not trust him? 

 

IF Alex would throw downfield then DJax could work.  But I do not think he can @Skinsinparadise.   And so if we go after DJax then we have disgruntled player on our hands in short order IMO.

 

   I still have not given up on Doctson.  We finally got a flash from him.  Let's build on something there if it all about Alex getting comfortable and getting his timing down.  And Richardson is not bad but he is already banged up and missing games.   

 

 

 

 

[Master Blaster]

Is the team a DJax away from going to the Super Bowl?  If yes, then pull the trigger.  If not, save assets. 

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am far from among those that are selling that Alex has played well. He hasn't played well.   But I think we are getting carried away that he can't get a deep ball to anyone -- last year he did fine in that department.  My point is Tyreek Hill was way open on those passes and Alex seemed confident to fling it deep in that context.  Closest version to me for Hill is D. Jax.

 

As was mentioned before, I think Reid might have forced him to throw the ball deep more. Now, Jay could force Alex into more deep balls, but I do think that's about the only way it's going to happen, and only if DJax  (if we even bother) is 3+ yards open..........which is something he can still do.

 

1 hour ago, Master Blaster said:

Is the team a DJax away from going to the Super Bowl?  If yes, then pull the trigger.  If not, save assets. 

 

For what? We have 10 million in cap space just sitting there. WR is a huge hole. What are you gonna save it for, that LG that we're not going to bother with?

[Master Blaster]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

 

For what? We have 10 million in cap space just sitting there. WR is a huge hole. What are you gonna save it for, that LG that we're not going to bother with?

 

So if the Redskins lose their first playoff game with or without DJax, what was the point of giving up assets?

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should. 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Master Blaster said:

 

So if the Redskins lose their first playoff game with or without DJax, what was the point of giving up assets?

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should. 

 

And if we don't make the move and don't make the playoffs? So, you would rather just sit on a WR corps that sucks?

 

If you wanna make the argument that DJax wouldn't be much of a factor here because of Smith, I get that. But as others have said, the fear he still puts in defenses, even if he doesn't get the ball thrown to him still helps the team.

 

And you're going to stand pat because?

[skinsmania123]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

And if we don't make the move and don't make the playoffs? So, you would rather just sit on a WR corps that sucks?

 

If you wanna make the argument that DJax wouldn't be much of a factor here because of Smith, I get that. But as others have said, the fear he still puts in defenses, even if he doesn't get the ball thrown to him still helps the team.

 

And you're going to stand pat because?

I mean everyone thinks a decent WR is going to turn this team around.  I don't.  I believe we already have some and can't develop them because Alex is so off. 

 

BUT  It is a risk-reward type of business.   And Jay would do an Andy Reid with Alex if they got DJax - throw the damn ball to him Alex - LOL!  

 

 And then if it does not work out, we keep DJax and do our best to get another QB, which yeah I know is not easy, but.....

 

We are getting close to being good.  Not great.  But good.  CB is a shaky situation, along with Alex.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

I remember Kirk saying that.  I also remember the article about how Alex's conservative style would drive him nuts.

 

 So do you think it is possible that JAY is so uncomfortable with Alex that he is calling these dinks and dunks and relying on the run game because he does not trust him? 

 

IF Alex would throw downfield then DJax could work.  But I do not think he can @Skinsinparadise.   And so if we go after DJax then we have disgruntled player on our hands in short order IMO.

 

   I still have not given up on Doctson.  We finally got a flash from him.  Let's build on something there if it all about Alex getting comfortable and getting his timing down.  And Richardson is not bad but he is already banged up and missing games.   

 

 

 

 

 

I think Jay's offense by his own description is about reads (just like most offenses), Alex dumping check downs I don't think is because Jay is calling the check down.  If there is frustration with Alex not actually throwing to open receivers then I'd gather its because Jay wants him to throw further down the field.  It's not just that Alex has been inaccurate but also he's going check down when guys are open deeper. 

 

I could see that easily in the Cardinals game in person because I had a good view of the field. I didn't mention it at the time because I didn't want to rain in on the parade after the win -- plus i wondered if that game was an exception.  I went back looked at some of those plays against Arizona and posted it on a thread -- and yeah what it looked to me indeed happened.  Now all QBs miss plays with guys open further down the field -- but it seems more frequent and blatant with Alex.   And yeah plenty warned about this including people who covered him in KC. 

 

I am not living and dying with D. Jax but I think he's actually a good fit aside from him perhaps being redundant if Richardson is healthy.  I pushed for Richardson in Fa so i like him more than most.  I like Doctson too more than most.  Neither dude though are game breakers.  D Jax is.  D. Jax can take a hitch and go to the house and I think more so than Richardson he can plays those sweeps much better.  For starters, teams are going to sleep on those sweeps if they never hand the ball to the receiver.  But Richardson runs such a wide arc on those sweeps that its hard to take that that seriously.  I saw that in Arizona, Richardson ran it so wide-back that defenders knew that there was no chance they were handing him the ball.

 

It doesn't seem like this type of move that's up Bruce's alley -- he's not a go for the kill dude.  Plus in a way does it admit that they screwed up by not bringing him back in the first place -- and Bruce to me seems like a very ego driven dude -- and yes thats a shot at him.   It feels much more Howie Roseman like to make a move like this.  Will see.

[Master Blaster]

6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

And if we don't make the move and don't make the playoffs? So, you would rather just sit on a WR corps that sucks?

 

If you wanna make the argument that DJax wouldn't be much of a factor here because of Smith, I get that. But as others have said, the fear he still puts in defenses, even if he doesn't get the ball thrown to him still helps the team.

 

And you're going to stand pat because?

 

Where did I say to stand pat?

It's like you don't even read the posts.

If the Redskins think they won't make the playoffs without him, do it.  If they think it doesn't matter.  Don't. 

I'm not really sure where the struggle is for you?

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

So if the Redskins lose their first playoff game with or without DJax, what was the point of giving up assets?

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should. 

 

We got a 34 year old QB who may be declining.  My issue with the trade was it put us in a win now mode -- we are stuck with it -- so since we are stuck with it don't play that hand halfway, play it fully IMO. 

 

I read somewhere Tampa might want only a 5th for him.  Not sure if that's true but I doubt you are giving a kings ransom for him.

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I mean everyone thinks a decent WR is going to turn this team around.  I don't.  I believe we already have some and can't develop them because Alex is so off. 

 

BUT  It is a risk-reward type of business.   And Jay would do an Andy Reid with Alex if they got DJax - throw the damn ball to him Alex - LOL!  

 

 And then if it does not work out, we keep DJax and do our best to get another QB, which yeah I know is not easy, but.....

 

We are getting close to being good.  Not great.  But good.  CB is a shaky situation, along with Alex.

 

No, I don't think that anyone things that a decent WR will turn this team around. DJax however can affect a Defense without ever getting the ball thrown to him. No matter what Smith does or does not do.

 

And we are stuck with Smith for 3 years. Not much we can do about that, so we have to work with what we have.

 

I would also say WR is worse off than CB, but I'd be looking for a CB if Dunbar is going to be out a while.

 

1 minute ago, Master Blaster said:

 

Where did I say to stand pat?

It's like you don't even read the posts.

If the Redskins think they won't make the playoffs without him, do it.  If they think it doesn't matter.  Don't. 

I'm not really sure where the struggle is for you?

 

You didn't offer any other solution. Do you have another idea?

 

Also, you don't get to keep resources you save, so why NOT spend it if you think it helps the team at all, not just a cut and dry "SB or nothing" thing

 

I do read posts. You're first one said SB, not playoffs. You're moving the goalposts. That would be my struggle. Stay consistent.

 

 

 

 

[Master Blaster]

3 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

You didn't offer any other solution. Do you have another idea?

 

Also, you don't get to keep resources you save, so why NOT spend it if you think it helps the team at all, not just a cut and dry "SB or nothing" thing

 

I do read posts. You're first one said SB, not playoffs. You're moving the goalposts. That would be my struggle. Stay consistent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get it now.  You struggle with simple ideas.

I'm not moving the goal posts, I'm attempting to make it easier for you to understand.

If the Redskins think bringing in DJax will have an impact on their record (especially if Tampa only wants a 5th), do it.

If the Redskins don't see DJax as having an impact on their record, don't do it.

 

Is that within your ability to logic?