What is Wrong with Alex Smith?

[CTskin]

22 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Is the team goal now to just win the NFC East and make the playoffs?  If that's your idea of success then you've been Snyderized.  Those of us who were active fans in the Redskin's Super Bowl winning era aren't satisfied with playoffs.  We want the team to contend for Super Bowls.  I suggest you go back and re-watch the debacle vs the Saints.  That's what the team should aspire to.  That is the bar to measure this team with.  With the passing game so God awful this Redskin's team would be crushed by the Rams, Saints, or Vikings in the playoffs.

 

I'm really hoping that with an easier schedule coming up Alex can get his mojo back and play like an above average QB.  Because if he can't this team as currently built is NOT a contender. 

 

Good god man you are a bummer. We're a 4-2 smashmouth, beating asses in the trenches football team. Just ****ing enjoy it.

 

That being said, the "easier" schedule coming up will be a problem for us. Through six games it's becoming clear that our rushing offense and defense is top notch, but our passing offense and defense is not. Hopefully we will magically start clicking before the ATL and TB games because if not, I don't see us getting away with two wins. 

 

I can say all of that with a smile on my face because no matter what the projection is, we're sitting pretty right now and I can talk as much **** as I want to Cowboy fans.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It appears many attempt to devalue playoffs in here, due to past history of Super Bowls

 

Step 1 is winning division or securing a playoff spot. 

 

I don’t think anyone is devaluing playoffs.  But we’ve been there done that every five years or so.  We’ve won weak divisions before and hosted playoff games.  We even won a wild card game on the road with Gibbs in what would most likely be the kind of game we’d get this season with this offense.  Since that time, the league has geared itself even more toward offense, particularly through the air.   We have a “ball control” QB or as you’d say “elite game manager” that we pay a lot for.  One with no real track record of playoff success.  All that stuff doesn’t give folks the warm and fuzzies about winning playoff games this way in this day and age.

[Llevron]

I didnt expect much from Alex but I did expect him to at least be comparable to Cuz when he was here. And I'm still not sure that he hasn't been all things considered. Cuz was very up and down until he hit his stride. My argument was always that his stride was a combination of everything around him and less him, so I expect that will be the case when or if Alex hits his. 

 

That said dude has been a disappointment for sure. Hes slower than dog **** now. Much less patience in the pocket. Its seems like it took 3 years for Cuz to learn to look down field when moving in the pocket and then we traded for this dude who is 15 years his senior and looks like he never heard of the concept. He wont even throw it to our best player. Yes. Very disappointed indeed. 

 

But I hold out hope that 12 games in he could get hot and get us on a run. Who knows. The rest if the team is better than it has been so if he steps his game up we could do some things. We will see. 

[wit33]

12 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I don’t think anyone is devaluing playoffs.  But we’ve been there done that every five years or so.  We’ve won weak divisions before and hosted playoff games.  We even won a wild card game on the road with Gibbs in what would most likely be the kind of game we’d get this season with this offense.  Since that time, the league has geared itself even more toward offense, particularly through the air.   We have a “ball control” QB or as you’d say “elite game manager” that we pay a lot for.  One with no real track record of playoff success.  All that stuff doesn’t give folks the warm and fuzzies about winning playoff games this way in this day and age.

 

Much of it is a matter of personal perspective and value within as a fan. Not arguing right or wrong, just a heads up. 

 

I get get what you’re saying in playoff experiences in past years and not amounting to much. I’m not attempting to overlook the Skins over last few playoff appearances had zero chance to win a Super Bowl. Going into playoffs as a consistent team or hot is the hope for me.

 

I can’t with a straight face expect a Super Bowl in any season that doesn’t include Skins having an elite QB. With that said, opportunity does remain for other teams to make surprise playoff runs when many variables (Health, Defense, Run Game, QB who doesn’t screw it up) click. See the Jags (Bortles), Broncos (Manning), Eagles (Wentz/Foles), Vikings (Keenum), Dallas (Prescott), Chiefs (Smith), Baltimore (Flacco) are QBs who’ve advanced past wild card or more over last 4 seasons. All have a similar identity and that’s what Skins are attempting to build due to not having an elite QB. This style style remains of value in today’s game, albeit less of value in years past. 

 

Ball control is only way to beat the elite in most cases. Let’s adapt to it until Skins find their elite guy or next one for those who felt Kirk was. 

 

 

 

 

[bakedtater1]

59 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I know you were talking to someone else, but...

 

I don’t bet for or against the Redskins, but I wouldn’t go running around offering that bet in public.  Folks will easily take you up on that.

 

As for “but close enough” to Mark and the Posse...

 

? pass that stuff your smokin!

I knew folks would blow it out of proportion..lol..ok maybe no where near close..but a man can dream lol

Ya I would put my(and I'm not a betting man and my wife would do more than leave me so in reality of course I wouldn't do it)next pay check on the skins beating any of those four teams..

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

I didnt expect much from Alex but I did expect him to at least be comparable to Cuz when he was here. And I'm still not sure that he hasn't been all things considered. Cuz was very up and down until he hit his stride.

 

That sounds accurate.

Cousins could be great, but inconsistent, and mistakes.

Alex can be average, and sometimes slightly below average, but he's consistent. And mentioned for the 1000th time because it's relevant here - he doesn't make mistakes.

 

So yeah, all things considered, they seem generally similar overall. Due to that, Cousins might have the same record if he were here.

He might have won games Alex lost, but lost games that Alex won.

[RandyHolt]

I am no internets doctor but it appears he cannot step up into the pocket on many of his throws...  And when he can, he doesn't, because he is gun shy from all the times he couldn't. I believe the root of any problem we see stems from no confidence in his OL, followed by none in his WRs.  Josh showed a glimmer of life last week, and dare I think Jay will try to dial those same routes again this week. Hopefully the GMenDBs didn't notice.

 

We have a run game, that should be making life a whole lot easier on Alex. But its a new offense, new everything, so he does deserve some time to adjust. I don't want to imagine what our offense would be like without AP.. my lord we may be winless.

 

I too get the sense that he is slower than I recall him being. Of course, who gets old and gets faster.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I don’t think anyone is devaluing playoffs.  But we’ve been there done that every five years or so.  We’ve won weak divisions before and hosted playoff games.  We even won a wild card game on the road with Gibbs in what would most likely be the kind of game we’d get this season with this offense.  Since that time, the league has geared itself even more toward offense, particularly through the air.   We have a “ball control” QB or as you’d say “elite game manager” that we pay a lot for.  One with no real track record of playoff success.  All that stuff doesn’t give folks the warm and fuzzies about winning playoff games this way in this day and age.

 

The single playoff win you mention above happened 13 years ago. That was the year I was married. I have an 11-year old son, a 9-year old daughter, and I'm getting divorced. That was a LIFETIME ago...so I don't think we can really claim we've "been there done that" when it comes to ANYTHING post-season related.

 

Would I love an instant Super Bowl-caliber team? Of course. But, realistically, I'd like to see this team get to the playoffs a couple times either consecutively or over a short time span. I'd like to see another playoff win now that I'm into my 40s. Then I will start to get bored with playoff berths and expect us to be like the 1980s Gibbs teams. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

14 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

The single playoff win you mention above happened 13 years ago. That was the year I was married. I have an 11-year old son, a 9-year old daughter, and I'm getting divorced. That was a LIFETIME ago...so I don't think we can really claim we've "been there done that" when it comes to ANYTHING post-season related.

 

Would I love an instant Super Bowl-caliber team? Of course. But, realistically, I'd like to see this team get to the playoffs a couple times either consecutively or over a short time span. I'd like to see another playoff win now that I'm into my 40s. Then I will start to get bored with playoff berths and expect us to be like the 1980s Gibbs teams. 

 

I realize it was forever ago and while it was fun In the moment, didn’t all of us come back down to earth immediately after that game was over?  Knowing there was no chance we could duplicate that type of success.  That we didn’t have a franchise QB on the roster.  All we had was a prayer that maybe Campbell would be that dude at some point.  There wasn’t a chance in the world Brunell was doing it.  Or later Collins.

 

I’m not telling anyone not to root for getting to the playoffs.  It’s better than not.  However you atleast like to have a smidge of hope that the team can “get hot” and beat anyone.  I just don’t see that as a possibility with a quarterback best known for playing it safe rather than their work as a passer in a passing league.

[Llevron]

38 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

So yeah, all things considered, they seem generally similar overall. Due to that, Cousins might have the same record if he were here.

He might have won games Alex lost, but lost games that Alex won.

 

Yes. This exactly. But even with that Alex has been a let down. The Alex I expected paired with this run game and defense would have only lost that NO game. 

 

But then I guess um being picky 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

14 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I realize it was forever ago and while it was fun In the moment, didn’t all of us come back down to earth immediately after that game was over?  Knowing there was no chance we could duplicate that type of success.  That we didn’t have a franchise QB on the roster.  All we had was a prayer that maybe Campbell would be that dude at some point.  There wasn’t a chance in the world Brunell was doing it.  Or later Collins.

 

I’m not telling anyone not to root for getting to the playoffs.  It’s better than not.  However you atleast like to have a smidge of hope that the team can “get hot” and beat anyone.  I just don’t see that as a possibility with a quarterback best known for playing it safe rather than their work as a passer in a passing league.

 

That's fair...maybe Alex is the Buck Showalter for this team. He'll be a caretaker as we become a viable contender and will be replaced by a more dynamic guy who now has a full team built around him? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's fair...maybe Alex is the Buck Showalter for this team. He'll be a caretaker as we become a viable contender and will be replaced by a more dynamic guy who now has a full team built around him? 

That’s the best possible scenario.  That said, there are so many moving parts to football teams.  That’s why the front office is so important for any chance to build a sustainable winner.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s the best possible scenario.  That said, there are so many moving parts to football teams.  That’s why the front office is so important for any chance to build a sustainable winner.

 

So your saying there's a chance ?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s the best possible scenario.  That said, there are so many moving parts to football teams.  That’s why the front office is so important for any chance to build a sustainable winner.

 

Right - that part I agree with. I think that by the time our next QB is here, Trent will be in the twilight of his career. I think they lined a veteran QB up with the tread left on guys at LT and OLB who are getting up there in age. That's why the BEST possible scenario is for Smith to improve enough where he's making a handful more plays per game so that THIS team can take the next step. 

[illone]

I didnt take the time to read the entire thread but man it's early in his tenure here.  I am no Alex Smith fan but he isn't turning the ball over and when was the last time Kirk Cousins was 4-2.....?

 

I'll take what this team is right now, and hope Smith will get more comfortable in the offense.  

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, illone said:

I didnt take the time to read the entire thread but man it's early in his tenure here.  I am no Alex Smith fan but he isn't turning the ball over and when was the last time Kirk Cousins was 4-2.....?

 

I'll take what this team is right now, and hope Smith will get more comfortable in the offense.  

Cousins had a 4-2 or better stretches in two of the three seasons he started here.

[MartinC]

10 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Is the team goal now to just win the NFC East and make the playoffs?  If that's your idea of success then you've been Snyderized.  Those of us who were active fans in the Redskin's Super Bowl winning era aren't satisfied with playoffs.

 

Quite right.

 

But playing good defense, getting leads and then milking the clock with a strong powerful running game was the blue print for the early Joe Gibbs teams as well. We took shots off play action and had an efficient passing game with Joey T - but we were a physical team and we beat teams up front. 

 

Do do you remember the 87 team? Could not settle on a QB, Schroeder was hot and cold and kept getting nicked up. Williams played well in spurts and we threw it down field a lot but we leaned very much on the running game and defense. I don’t think anyone thought we were Super Bowl team - until we were.

 

The 91 team was different class. The best team might have been the 83 team that lost to the Raiders though.

 

We are 4-2 - enjoy it. We all know the passing game has to improve if we are going to go anywhere.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Cousins had a 4-2 or better stretches in two of the three seasons he started here.

 

So in 48 games as a starter the last 3 yrs he had 2 stretches of 4-2 - Alex has been here 6 games and has 1/2 the number of 4-2 stretches. 

 

I realize you were kind of just answering the question - but may have wanted to leave that alone. Not sure it tells the story you want it to. ? 

 

 

[Commander -JB-]

12 hours ago, bowhunter said:

It would be nice on occasion for our O to tell the Defense "Y'all sit this one out, we got this one."  When you've played 6 games and a Defensive Tackle is tied for 4th in scoring, you've become one dimensional. I still have hope for Alex, but I wonder if McCoy was playing would our offensive production look any differently....and NO, I'm not suggesting that Colt be made starter.

We have actually been running the ball quite well so we have some sustained drives which helps the defense ?‍♂️

[Burgold]

One phenomenon we're seeing in this Alex Smith thread is something that you see all the time in rookie threads. Remember when Matt Ionadis was a bust and a horrible waste of a draft pick who couldn't play at snap? Remember when Moses was considered a complete flop because of the three snaps he played in his rookie year? Remember Kirk Cousins' first eight games as a starter?

 

For some reason, posters like to believe that no player ever improves. They don't get better in the system. Now, it's fair to say that Alex Smith is an old vet and we've seen his ceiling, but it ain't fair to imagine we've seen his ceiling on the Redskins. I think if we were to inject Alex with truth serum and ask him he'd say that he is playing far below his capabilities right now and things just ain't clicking.  I do expect them to click better. Partly, that's because while he is throwing inaccurately he's not throwing ducks. That means there's something wrong with communication, timing, or his expectations. The receivers ain't where he expects them to be. The passes themselves are zippy enough. Now, he does got to get over the happy feet, but I think that too will improve with comfort and confidence.

 

In any case, if we say that we are seeing the C version of Alex Smith I don't think it's unfair to imagine that by the end of the year he can pull his grade up to at least a B.

[RandyHolt]

With our ER / turnstile at WR its basically still preseason for Alex in terms of comfort with the personnel. Its not just Alex though, we need the OL QB and WR to get on the same page.  It's the one place AP can't carry us.

 

Running Doctson's fav college routes is a good start to curing what ails our passing game. Pipedream Jay could let Alex get stuff sorted with his WRs 1 by 1, and then tell Jay what plays to call. Maybe they do that stuff already. Purge the passing playbook for a few weeks.

And for the love of the game, hit those deep balls.  Those are HUGE plays to miss out on. They pad the stats and make many problems go away.

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

So in 48 games as a starter the last 3 yrs he had 2 stretches of 4-2 - Alex has been here 6 games and has 1/2 the number of 4-2 stretches. 

 

I realize you were kind of just answering the question - but may have wanted to leave that alone. Not sure it tells the story you want it to. ? 

 

 

Smith has a better supporting cast(outside of WR)than Cousins ever had. Better D and better run game.

 

Also, as has been said many times, using W-L record to evaluate QBs is moronic. Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow had winning records too.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Smith will get better if we keep saying the same **** over and over and over again in this thread.  

 

We're not there yet.  I don't mind the identity that we're creating, I just want more consistent effort.  The Indy/Nola games were unforgivable.  I know there will be games where we don't play as sharp/turn the ball over/lose, etc. but those kinds of performances have plagued our team since Jay arrived (and well before that).  

 

Run the ball.  Build around our young studs on the DL.  Let Alex man the wheel while we get younger.

[goskins10]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Smith has a better supporting cast(outside of WR)than Cousins ever had. Better D and better run game.

 

Also, as has been said many times, using W-L record to evaluate QBs is moronic. Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow had winning records too.

 

I know all those things. Oddly enough I have actually watched this game called football a few times.

 

That was actually the point. Why get into the discussion about w/l streaks? It’s a fruitless exercise. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Burgold said:

One phenomenon we're seeing in this Alex Smith thread is something that you see all the time in rookie threads....Now, it's fair to say that Alex Smith is an old vet 

 

I agree with some of your points on this post.   Veterans though are a different breed typically than young players especially at the Qb position.  There are veterans including QBs who come in and click right away.  Much tougher for a rookie or new bee player to do it.  To me its somewhat apples to oranges.  Alex himself said the system isn't that different -- his quote about this system and KC's being both latin based languages.  Heavy WCO concepts.

 

Mostly following up on Cooley's film reviews and watching some of the coaches tape of games -- and I know some people didn't love me for doing this, I posted some of those clips on the Alex thread, you can see open receivers and in some cases Alex starring right at them and he for whatever reason isn't willing to throw to them, hesitates too long and takes a sack, or throws with poor footwork inaccurately.  It gives a vibe that his issues run deeper than chemistry with his receivers.  Hopefully, he snaps out of it.  I think he will.  Will see. 

 

9 hours ago, Burgold said:

 

For some reason, posters like to believe that no player ever improves. They don't get better in the system.

 

I was rereading the Alex Smith thread and I noticed some of people who from the outset didn't think Alex was a good QB are the same ones taking him on now.  I actually am not among them, I thought Alex would be good.  I didn't like the trade but that wasn't because I expected Alex to play like this.  But I don't blame those that criticized Alex after the deal saying right now I told you so.  So far, they are correct.  Eventually, they might be wrong.  But for the moment, they are on the money.  I agree with you that Alex can and likely will improve.  

 

9 hours ago, Burgold said:

 

In any case, if we say that we are seeing the C version of Alex Smith I don't think it's unfair to imagine that by the end of the year he can pull his grade up to at least a B.

 

I agree with Cooley's take which is Alex has been below a C player.  Somewhere in the C - to D level at least in recent weeks.  So I think we need more than a grade level improvement.  I think we need a couple of peg improvements.   I am still optimistic -- more cautiously though than before that this will sort itself out.  Will see.