Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, twa said:

He did specify normal. 

Yeah, I thought about that. I don't know how to use the dark web either so actually don't meet either qualifier.

[@DCGoldPants]

We're way beyond the tipping point here. We have the mob going after anybody who isn't Pro-Trump by calling them Rinos. Meanwhile, the person they will defend is the RINO. They'll go after lifelong Republicans. They'll go after former POWs. 

 

Facts don't matter. Reality doesn't matter. Nothing matters. The author of the OP article is correct in the bottom line that there really is no point trying to understand these folks. You HAVE to focus on the people who will listen and those who are somehow unsure. That's it. Most importantly, you can't do it by attacking the other side. That's what they want. To get into arguments and to have platforms to question your loyalty to the US. The old bull**** line about how one guy talks about the issues while the other doesn't. Well, it's time to actually do that. Focus on the issues you want to improve. Making middle-class tax cuts permanent is where to start. "We want to do what nobody else is willing to......." and go from there. 

 

 

 

[twa]

1 hour ago, mcsluggo said:

 

you are right, Kasich is a lot like McCain and Romney.   Whether you agree with their policy positions or not, you wouldn't be ****ing ashamed to have them as President, and you would have faith that for the most part they would do what they personally thought was best for the country.    That doesn't mean that I would vote for them against an Obama, but if Trump had run as a Dem (which would've been easily possible prior to the birther nonsense) and won the nomination  (which never would've been ****ing possible), i sure as hell would've voted for McCain Kasich or Romney in a hot second.

 

you, on the other hand.....  

 

I voted for 2 out of the three and would have voted for Kasich if he was Trump's opponent.

 

On the other hand I'll never vote for Hillary.

[mcsluggo]

[twa]

You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes he will just stand on your foot amigo.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

We're way beyond the tipping point here. We have the mob going after anybody who isn't Pro-Trump by calling them Rinos. Meanwhile, the person they will defend is the RINO. They'll go after lifelong Republicans. They'll go after former POWs. Facts don't matter. Reality doesn't matter. Nothing matters. The author of the OP article is correct in the bottom line that there really is no point trying to understand these folks. You HAVE to focus on the people who will listen and those who are somehow unsure. That's it.

This is exactly right. There is NO point in trying to understand Trump goo. The idea that we should try to understand them implies that there is something deeper and less offensive to their motivation. I actually did try to understand them... and then I did understand them... and it was exactly what it appeared to be. A bunch of easily misled ignoramuses, fueled by hate and stupidity.

 

You nailed it @SkinsGoldPants. Everybody needs to listen to @SkinsGoldPants. @SkinsGoldPants is my new spirit animal!!

 

 

1 hour ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Most importantly, you can't do it by attacking the other side.

Whoah, you lost me.

 

What is up with this? IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK!!! Focusing on the issues is what they want you to do. When was the last time you heard a Trump supporter get all pissy because someone was focusing on the issues? They don't because they don't care. They get pissy when you tell it like it is about what they've become because they know that anger and fear is driving people to the polls and they want a monopoly on that ****. Issues are a non-issue.

 

We absolutely do need to attack the other side.  You wouldn't know it but a good chunk of the population has no idea just what the GOP has become. People need to be made aware and people need to get pissed off. What's the concern here? That if undecideds see people attacking the other side then they will be turned off and vote against them? That's obviously not the case or else they'd already be voting against the GOP. No, no... I'm afraid it's the lefts turn for pitchforks and torches. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a pitchfork and torch, is a good guy with a pitchfork and torch.

 

 

54 minutes ago, twa said:

On the other hand I'll never vote for Hillary.

Yeah sure. If Trump and Hillary had run the exact same campaigns and said all of the exact same things and took the exact same positions but Trump had a -D after his name and Hillary an -R, you would have voted for H. In fact, she would have won 50 states. Of course, neither would have won the nomination to begin with so whatever. The important things to remember are:

 

1) The GOP sucks

2) twa falls in line 100% of the time

Edited May 11, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[PleaseBlitz]

That whole post is GOLD, but "Issues are a non-issue" is the best sentence I've seen in weeks. 

[Fresh8686]

Thought this was an interesting (and long) read.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[No Excuses]

28 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 That if undecideds see people attacking the other side then they will be turned off and vote against them? That's obviously not the case or else they'd already be voting against the GOP.

 

 

 

American politics in a nutshell. 

 

There is a double standard where the GOP can engage in birtherism and all kinds of bogus ****ing nonsense. 

 

And if the Democrats raise hell on actually substantive matters like I don’t know, children’s health insurance, zoony will make a thread explaining to everyone why Democrats lose elections.

 

The simplest explanation that too many are uncomfortable with: a huge portion of this country likes the WWE style ****ization of our institutions. Trump won because he’s an ass clown that too many Americans can relate to because they are just like him.

[Zguy28]

Ya'll must find the continual venting about how bad our current President is to be therapeutic. I'm not sure I've seen anybody on here change their mind about almost anything regarding what he does or who he is in a long time.

[DogofWar1]

The past couple years would make a perfect setup for a new Bioshock game.

[Spaceman Spiff]

53 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

Trump won because he’s an ass clown that too many Americans can relate to because they are just like him.

 

While we usually disagree with things, I respect the fact that you're an intelligent guy and passionate about what you believe.

 

That said, insulting the people you disagree with is a surefire way to never get them over to your world point of view.

[NoCalMike]

16 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Ya'll must find the continual venting about how bad our current President is to be therapeutic. I'm not sure I've seen anybody on here change their mind about almost anything regarding what he does or who he is in a long time.

 

When he got elected I held out for about 48 hours hoping that by some miracle he was going to change somewhat as the President as opposed to Trump the campaigner.  Despite all his personal character flaws, he had been a centrist on a lot of issues before actually running for office. Unfortunately that never happened, and the whacks got their hooks into him too soon and too deep for him to come back to earth.

[NoCalMike]

Again, I think people are missing the boat a little when they speak of this "Trump Revolution" when it comes to voters.  Most Trump voters were Romney voters, were McCain voters, were Bush voters etc etc.....just like most Obama voters, were Hillary voters, were Kerry voters, were B. Clinton voters.

 

The majority of voters are loyal to a party.  As much as people claim they hate political parties, the current system makes sense to side with a party. I don't particularly like it myself, but until the money is out of the equation, the 2 party system isn't going anymore.  If Trump would have ran as an (I) he would have lost. Anyway....getting back to the point.

 

The article posted a few replies ago, about the voters that gave Trump a chance, but now regret it?  THOSE ARE THE FOLKS that need to be targeted for 2018/2020.  Those people are the only hope.  There isn't going to be a mass exodus of the GOP base voting for Democrats.  It is going to be the 15-20%.....the 77k votes that Trump basically won the election by, that can swing things back the other way. Otherwise everything will mostly be business like usual.   It doesn't matter who the Democrats run as their candidate, he or she will still be labeled a communist/socialist/maoist/etc etc....that is just a fact.  

 

The one other hope is that Trump has come off so bad to a large portion of the "usually don't vote" block of eligible voters, that they get up off the couch and actually go vote, but we've been hoping for that for too long to actually rely on that happening.

[Bozo the kKklown]

17 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

Thought this was an interesting (and long) read.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Smicker recalled that many of those he encountered were mad, fed up with the state of things. “This is my observation, it is not necessarily my belief,” he said as he described their motivations. “Number one, they said minority political people have been well taken care of. Small business and working people have been identified as the source of income to take care of those people.”

 

Quote

As Gaulrapp left the McDonald’s, he passed by a table of half a dozen men, most of them retired and one sporting a red “Make America Great Again” cap. They all said they had voted for Trump and they jokingly called themselves “a basket of deplorables.” They blamed President Bill Clinton and the North American Free Trade Agreement for the exodus of jobs from the town. They blamed Obama for not bridging racial divides and for other things. They couldn’t stomach Hillary Clinton. They already viewed the incoming president as a success. “I think he’s done a better job, and he isn’t even president yet, than Obama did in eight years,” one man said.

 

 

Quote

Pannier, now 75, considered himself a political independent who sees virtue in both parties even though he has tended to vote for more Republicans than Democrats. A month into Trump’s presidency, he was asked how he made his decision in 2016. He chuckled. “A lot of thought. A lot of thought,” he said. Pausing, he added, “And I won’t tell you how I voted, but probably my wife and my vote canceled each other’s out.”  He described why he thought Trump had won the county, noting particularly the candidate’s focus on jobs leaving the country and on immigration. “Those things I think just sort of caught people [who said], ‘We need a change,’ ” he said. “They were caught up in the fact that the guy didn’t back down on what he said. He just kept saying it whether it was well received or not.”

 

Quote

 Dennis Schminke worked at Hormel for 38 years, a number of those years focused on risk management in grain purchasing. He grew up in Iowa, one of six children in a 1,300-square-foot, one-bathroom house. His parents, he said, were “FDR Democrats,” and his first votes were for their party. But as a fiscal hawk and advocate of low taxes, he quickly migrated to the Republican side, where he has been ever since, as an activist, party leader and occasional candidate. He saw events through a conservative lens.  “I was very wary of Barack Obama and he proved me correct on that,” he said over coffee on a summer afternoon. “I despise Barack Obama. I think primarily because I don’t think he thinks very much of people like me. That’s just the long and short of it.”

 

Quote

 As dusk descended on Austin, a group of men were packing up their rifles at the Cedar Valley Conservation Club, a local shooting range. George Morse, a retired firefighter, recalled Bill Clinton’s presidency. “I was best off when Bill was president,” he said. Today, he said, neither party favors the working person. He had long voted for Democrats until Obama. “I just didn’t like his attitude,” he said. In 2016, he supported Trump. “We were definitely due for a change.”

Quote

Bruening, 41, understood Trump’s success in Clayton County despite the earlier string of Democratic victories. “I think one [reason] is that it is exhausting to have to edit yourself all the time, and Trump was completely the opposite of that,” he said. “I think Trump allowed . . . people to not have to feel bad about holding, say, anti-immigrant views or something. That’s one of the things I really noticed. People are way less afraid to say what they really think about a host of different things.”

 

[AsburySkinsFan]

17 hours ago, Zguy28 said:

Ya'll must find the continual venting about how bad our current President is to be therapeutic. I'm not sure I've seen anybody on here change their mind about almost anything regarding what he does or who he is in a long time.

I absolutely do find it therapeutic. Yessir, no denying it, this is as much catharsis for me as anything because outside of the walls of my house I’m not free to vent openly without blowback on my business or my wife’s business. Where I live I feel muzzeled, so love this place to come and bark. I even have an anonymous twitter handle to vent through as well. If not I’m pretty sure I’d explode.

17 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

While we usually disagree with things, I respect the fact that you're an intelligent guy and passionate about what you believe.

 

That said, insulting the people you disagree with is a surefire way to never get them over to your world point of view.

Did you watch Anthony Bourdain’s Parts Unknown in West Virginia?

There was a guy he interviewed who said as much that the reason he supports Trump is because Trump talks like they do. They embrace him for his lowest common denominator talk, his inflammatory speech because it’s the EXACT stuff they say.

[88Comrade2000]

Just pump more opioids into Trump country and let the Trump voter medicate themselves until they're gone.

[Larry]

18 hours ago, Zguy28 said:

Ya'll must find the continual venting about how bad our current President is to be therapeutic. I'm not sure I've seen anybody on here change their mind about almost anything regarding what he does or who he is in a long time.

 

Yeah. But how much of that is because the only people in Tailgate who ever supported Trump are twa, who never had a soul to begin with, and that clown who shows up and makes a post a minute every time his ban expires?  

 

In short, people who's entire identity is the Republican Party?  People who would have proudly voted for, well, Putin, if he'd been nominated?

Edited May 12, 2018 by Larry

[Bang]

Where else can you ****?

Definitely therapeutic.

Half the time what I read here angers me so much ,i post just to get it out.

Most of the people my posts are directed to don't populate this site very much.. but it's where I am, so..

It's not like it's just a coven of like-minded people, but rather people who have found themselves to be like-minded since the insanity has set in full.

 

~Bang

[No Excuses]

22 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

While we usually disagree with things, I respect the fact that you're an intelligent guy and passionate about what you believe.

 

That said, insulting the people you disagree with is a surefire way to never get them over to your world point of view.

 

This is a fair point and I'm going to address is bluntly.

 

I have zero respect or the need to convince anyone who voted for Trump on a purely personal level. People who saw his naked racism, sexism and all around crass behavior, and still found it in them to support him have pretty much nothing in common with me and I have no energy or motivation internally to get them to see my point of view.

 

The post-Trump America has been a really odd place for people of color like me, who grew up in America and haven't really known a world outside of here. Until Trumpism infected this country, it was kind of a surface level understanding that racism exists in America but most of this country has our back and despite political differences, won't scapegoat people who are simply trying to make an honest living just like everyone else.

 

Post-Trump, I know that this is 100% not true. There are either people in this country (and many, many of them) who like him for his racism and awful behavior because it's how they behave and view the world themselves. And I acknowledge that there is a portion that are not racist and bigoted themselves, but they have shown that they are perfectly ok with the scapegoating of people who do not resemble their identity.

 

Both sets of people for me are a complete non-starter and there is nothing left to discuss or convince them off because I think a vast majority of adults are set in their worldview and very rarely budge (this has been demonstrated time and time again through social science research).

 

As an exercise, it is a waste of my time. On a purely personal level, I have devoted my time outside of academia in this post-Trump America on helping the people who will ultimately be harmed the most through his rhetoric and the GOP's actions, which are mostly children in poor communities. This obviously means that I have no time to worry or care about the feelings or views of the people who enable this degradation of our society, our country and our values.

 

I could maybe not be as harsh in some of the things I say but then again:

 

 

People saw this, internalized it, and still liked him. They deserve no sympathy or respect in my opinion. Others are perhaps better people than I am and I'll leave it up to them to convince those who weren't off put by the most vile human being who has graced our national presence.

Edited May 12, 2018 by No Excuses

[Bozo the kKklown]

@No Excuses is how I feel.

 

these people do not have the ideals and values that we Americans are supposed to believe. They also do not see me as a human being.

[Mr. Sinister]

I have just enough energy to tell them to kill themselves 

[Going Commando]

There is a disconnect in the minds of the non-racist Trump voter when it comes to his racism and that supporting him means supporting a pretty nakedly white supremacist agenda.  They are absolutely ignorant about the ways that white supremacy is reinforced by their actions and the ways it effects non-White Americans. They are absolutely ignorant of the lives and concerns of non-White Americans.  You would be amazed at how segregated your average Republican voter's life is.  They might have minimal professional interaction with ethnic minorities, but that's it.  And they are not exposed to minority views or culture except when it becomes absolutely mainstream.

 

And so when they come across ethnic minorities, they don't understand them and the standard reaction is negative and dismissive.  This is why white people who aren't radicalized white-supremacists turn a blind eye to the GoP's and Trump's racism.  They don't understand it and they don't care about it because it doesn't seem to effect them. EDIT: or anyone they know.

Edited May 12, 2018 by stevemcqueen1

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

22 hours ago, Zguy28 said:

Ya'll must find the continual venting about how bad our current President is to be therapeutic. I'm not sure I've seen anybody on here change their mind about almost anything regarding what he does or who he is in a long time.

Don’t like it? Blame Trump, the GOP, and their base. Maybe if they didn’t elect a ****head who can’t go 48 hours without ****ting out another scandal or embarrassing the country. Maybe if they hadn’t spent 8 years cultivating a culture where pedophiles and white supremacists, and idiots who say things like “Cocaine Mitch loves China people.” have a prominent place in the hierarchy while the true evil is people like Barack Obama...

 

The Republicans used to be the party of family values and personal responsibility. Now, they’re the fat sack of monkey crap party. So long as they continue to suck balls, you’re going to continue to hear about it.

[Renegade7]

Trump's base is a part of the GOP, not the entire GOP.

 

If we treat everyone that voted for Trump in the 2016 Election like they are part of his base, the polarization of the country will only get worse, never better.  I saw the absolutely resistance to his take over in the GOP, states debating on whether to withhold their delegates so he couldn't get the the nomination. 

 

GOP may have created this monster, so I have as little sympathy as anyone that it finally turned on them.  My final judgement on that side of the aisle is whether the GOP nominates another Trump knowing what we already suspected would happen coming to fruition.  As a liberal, even I know its in our country's best interests for competent conservative counter-balance. If GOP never snaps out of it, fine, we need to respond accordingly.