Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

I was just about to post this. It’s a mind numbing interview. To lie intentionally like that with no shame is just incredible to watch. You could tell that it’s all an act and he just doesn’t care. 

 

It is such a sad reflection of the Republican base that they take these jabronis seriously. 

 

Keep remembering when Jon Stewart (or Colbert?) interviewed Kevin Spacey, about the two weeks he was allowed to shadow members of Congress, as prep for House of Cards. 

 

Host asked him whether the politicians actually believe the things they say, or is it just political theater. 

 

“Oh, it’s performance art. And most of them are really bad actors.”

[88Comrade2000]

These Lifelong Democrats Voted for Trump and Aren’t Sorry

[AsburySkinsFan]

9 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

We were taught "two wrongs don't make a right", but our hand is absolutely getting forced in this regard.  The high road is supposed to matter more then it does right now, and its tearing us apart.

In the current political climate the high road matters not a bit. We all WANT someone who will take the high road on Trump but yet as my memory serves everyond tried...and failed.

Truth is not a currency with his supporters, the ONLY thing that matters to them is that he talks like an outsider (read: like they do) which means he says all sorts of racist and otherwise ignorant bull****. And they love him for it. He proved that you can truly take the gloves off and say whatever the hell you want and you’ll still swing enough votes in the right places to win. The ONLY thing you have to be able to do is be sure enough in yourself to weather the storm of rage hurled at you everytime you go iff the rails. 

If there is something I’ll credit Trump for figuring out it’s this, panem et circenses. He gives them the bread (feeds their worldview) and he gives them a show. And they love him for it.

If you think for a second the “high road” gets it done against a play to the mob then you’re silly. He stokes their fires by pouring gasoline on their rage. And that won’t be put out with logic and a well reasoned debate response. He changed the game and ya’ll still want to employ the strategy that just got us beat.

[Renegade7]

44 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

If you think for a second the “high road” gets it done against a play to the mob then you’re silly. He stokes their fires by pouring gasoline on their rage. And that won’t be put out with logic and a well reasoned debate response. He changed the game and ya’ll still want to employ the strategy that just got us beat.

 

If that's the case, what's this blue wave I keep hearing about?

 

Check this out, can you tell the difference between the two maps below (I can):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We continue down this "F You" "No, F You" path and we do it along political lines, we're going to separate in a way that will be damn near impossible to fix militarily.    Union finally won because they were able to cut the south in half.  If we split up again, the Union will be cut in half instead and from get-go. 

 

"But Renegade, won't the federal government have most of the military and figure it out?"

 

Maybe, but then you have to factor where most of the guns are:

 

 

 

 

Listen, this isn't about defending anybody's right to be an asshole, this is big picture talk here.  We HAVE to reconcile, if we keep fighting fire with fire, we risk burning the whole damn house down with everybody in it.  Britain tried its best to stay out of the first Civil War, don't think for a second Russia will do the same if there's a second one. 

 

I've already said that if Dems get both chambers of congress and the presidency, they need to get done what they can for the good of the country with or without the GOP, don't try to be an idealist like Obama did when he first got elected if they refuse to meet us halfway.  This needs to be a message, not a permanent plan, because GOP isn't going to take being left out the room the same way Dems do for very long, and our institutions have grown around a two party rule, not a one party rule.

 

History is a big deal to me because it puts into perspective that nothing stays the same forever.  If we don't operate like we want to be around forever, we won't be.  We might not always agree or even get along, but divided we fall, and the vacuum will get filled by someone who isn't even going to try to pretend to be as altruistic as we claim to be.

 

Dems need to start with doing what they have to do to win elections, and there's a whole thread on that already:

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/413259-fixing-the-the-united-states-democratic-party/?page=18&tab=comments#comment-11232689

 

Hillary lost because she didn't take Trump seriously, especially in her lack of campaigning in the midwest and shifting her political ads after the debates to focusing on Trump as a person instead of his issues or her's. We don't need to sink to GOP's level in order to do win seats, Virginia is damn near completely blue now because Dems got the brilliant idea to stop leaving so many seats uncontested, especially with an extremely unpopular incumbent president.

 

And if we do have to sink to the GOP's level to win elections, well, we've already lost anyway, imo. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Pointing out and raising awareness of all of the very real corruptness & stupidity coming from that side of the aisle isn't sinking to the GOP's level.

 

I would like to see the dems quit being such wussies and start calling the GOP out on all of their bull****.

[Renegade7]

44 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Pointing out and raising awareness of all of the very real corruptness & stupidity coming from that side of the aisle isn't sinking to the GOP's level.

 

I would like to see the dems quit being such wussies and start calling the GOP out on all of their bull****.

 

I don't understand, do you not watch MSNBC?  I feel like everytime you see something on this that doesn't match where your at with this as tolerance and that's not what tolerance means (which is basically to ignore something like it isn't a problem, it is, we just disagree on how to deal with it).  

 

People calling everyone (not calling anyone out in particular, but we've all seen it enough that we can't deny it) that voted for a Trump a racist or a deplorable is defiently in the general direction of meeting them halfway, which we all saw didn't work.  We've talked about this before, getting personal about this isn't necessary and will backfire horribly. We never seem to agree on this one, but I know better then to let emotions get the best of me even when I know I'm right.

 

I do believe the Dems need more spine on their issues and stop trying to make everybody happy, but that's very different then what a lot of Dems want to do in regards with how to deal with the GOP right now. If the Blue Wave turns into low tide barely reaching the sand castle, there might not be anything left to argue about. 

 

If Dems get back one or both chambers of congress, I'm right, and ya'll need to calm the F down.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Renegade7

[zoony]

4 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Pointing out and raising awareness of all of the very real corruptness & stupidity coming from that side of the aisle isn't sinking to the GOP's level.

 

I would like to see the dems quit being such wussies and start calling the GOP out on all of their bull****.

 

 

Ahh, but no bull**** with the dems.

 

Sounds about right

[TheGreatBuzz]

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

"But Renegade, won't the federal government have most of the military and figure it out?"

First all, despite the occasional talk about it, I don't think we will get the a point of another civil war.  That doesn't mean it isn't possible though.  I put the likelihood around 10%.  But I think looking at the locations with gun percentages is interesting.  I also suspected Texas would have been higher than it was. 

 

The government having most of the military also is something to ponder.  The military has a decent numbers of Trump supporters.  It is hard to say how much of the military would stay on the "good side".  Even if only 20% decided to switch sides, that would certainly hurt the military's capabilities.

[twa]

Susan Hennessey‏Verified account @Susan_Hennessey 18h18 hours ago

More

Susan Hennessey Retweeted Bari Weiss

Someone emailed me last week to say I was an "anti-American evil Nazi whore." My emotional response was to feel mildly annoyed he hadn't bothered to spell my name correctly.

Susan Hennessey added,

Bari WeissVerified account @bariweiss

Replying to @cjane87 @nhannahjones @nytimes

I'm talking here about an emotional response. What happens to you when you are called deplorable? Is the response to say to the accuser: Actually, hey, you're right! I hadn't realized that about myself. Or is it to maybe consider voting for Trump?

 

[No Excuses]

Solid post twa. There are very few people in this world who have worse takes than Bari Weiss. The NYT op-ed section is a massive dumpster fire for such a great newspaper.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 hours ago, zoony said:

Ahh, but no bull**** with the dems.

 

Sounds about right

Ahh, pretending that I said something that I didn't say. Sounds about right.

 

I don't care about the dems dude. I'll be the first to tell you that the dems have problems. But here's the thing... one party has problems while the other one a ****ing disgrace. The GOP, on the federal level, is a festering cooter sore. I would LOVE to sit down and go tit for tat with you over this and see how you thought the post above was a good idea. Here, I'll start. Your president making fun of a disabled person.

 

 

Got something comparable on the other side? Nope? Well, I've got about 5000 more examples like this from your **** stain party.

 

"WELL AT LEAST WE AREN'T A BUNCH OF WHINEY LITTLE *******!!" ~Zoony

 

No... no. they actually are. The GOP are the whiniest ******* of them all. **** those mother****ers.

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I don't understand, do you not watch MSNBC?

Absolutely not.

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

If Dems get back one or both chambers of congress, I'm right, and ya'll need to calm the F down.

How do you figure?

[Bang]

I wonder if people realize just how long the high road has been attempted?

 

I was also taught two wrongs don't make a right.

but there is also a point when what is considered wrong..   becomes right.

As i've said before, often evil takes root because good people attempt reason for far too long.

 

I understand these people. I've been watching them become this, and trying to dissuade them all along the way. They entered a suicidal course about 20 years ago, and it's steaming along to it's inevitable conclusion. they do not want to change. they do not want to compromise, they are controlled by fear and hate..  the two easiest emotions to create and manipulate, and by far the easiest to direct.

Last week for the second time n the last 6 months, the orange **** rolled out the suggestion of "extending' his presidency beyond 8 years.

If he wins in 2020, which i believe they will try to rig in the most complete sense to insure, this is what we face. By 2024, this won't be the same country anymore, if indeed it survives. The GOP is run by hate. And there's only one way to fight hate effectively.
And it isn't "love".

 

~Bang

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bang

[No Excuses]

19 minutes ago, Bang said:

but there is also a point when what is considered wrong..   becomes right.

As i've said before, often evil takes root because good people attempt reason for far too long

 

~Bang

 

Preach.

 

There is no value in reasoning with people who have given into tribalism and xenophobia. It is a massive waste of time.

 

The right in this country wants to openly practice racism and bigotry while demanding they not be confronted with these terms because it hurts their feelings. They whine about PC culture but are a bunch of babies with a persecution complex that is reflected every day in the manchild they elected.

 

 

The idea that society be nice and understanding to people who vote for things like "Mexicans are rapists and murders" and "Grab em by the ****" is a bunch of BS. Ridicule and mock these people at every chance you get and do not give up an inch. We have to set standards for what is acceptable and what isn't in our communities. Reasoning with people who tolerate bigotry and hate to achieve political gains has rarely ever worked in the history of humanity.

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by No Excuses

[Llevron]

Example from radio this morning: 

 

Trump said he likes his war heroes not to be captured. We all knew it was not only stupid but wrong. Took high road. 

 

*Years later

 

We are now debating if a lower level staffer....some **** we never heard of.....is right for saying John McCain is dying anyway so **** him. 

 

 

**** doesn't work.

[nonniey]

54 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Solid post twa. There are very few people in this world who have worse takes than Bari Weiss. The NYT op-ed section is a massive dumpster fire for such a great newspaper.

Don't know him and you may very well very be correct about him,  but that particular "take" was spot on.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

30 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Trump said he likes his war heroes not to be captured. We all knew it was not only stupid but wrong. Took high road.

His poll numbers went up after that. The “Republican” Party responded favorably to a billionaire Russian sympathizer insulting a lifelong Republican former POW for being a POW.

27 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Don't know him and you may very well very be correct about him,  but that particular "take" was spot on.

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

 

When you point out that racists, sexists, xenophobes, and Islamaphobes are deplorable, it makes them want to vote for Trump. Riiiiight...

 

1). They are deplorable.

2). They were already voting for Trump

3). Boo hoo... I’m sure going to miss them ?

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[LD0506]

37 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

When you point out that racists, sexists, xenophobes, and Islamaphobes are deplorable, it makes them want to vote for Trump.

 

IKR? Like they really didn't want to be assholes, but you made 'em by saying something. It's the ole "Look what you made me do!" ~ said by every abusive guy ever

[No Excuses]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Don't know him and you may very well very be correct about him,  but that particular "take" was spot on.

 

If it were true, the entire left would be a bunch of Marx loving commies. 

 

Mudslinging across the aisle is a trait of every democratic society with multiple factions. The right does it. The left does it.

 

Only the American right makes a huge fuss about it because they are delicate little snowflakes. 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

First all, despite the occasional talk about it, I don't think we will get the a point of another civil war.  That doesn't mean it isn't possible though.  I put the likelihood around 10%.  But I think looking at the locations with gun percentages is interesting.  I also suspected Texas would have been higher than it was. 

 

The government having most of the military also is something to ponder.  The military has a decent numbers of Trump supporters.  It is hard to say how much of the military would stay on the "good side".  Even if only 20% decided to switch sides, that would certainly hurt the military's capabilities.

 i agree that its not a high probability.  I see it joked about way too much for my liking and it does feel like its less about disagreeing due to political differences and more about hating each other for our political differences.  It's an unsustainable path, no matter where it ends.  My example is worst case scenario, because even if Feds win, other players will take advantage of us trying to sort our own house out, no doubt in my mind.

[nonniey]

59 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

His poll numbers went up after that. The “Republican” Party responded favorably to a billionaire Russian sympathizer insulting a lifelong Republican former POW for being a POW.

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

 

When you point out that racists, sexists, xenophobes, and Islamaphobes are deplorable, it makes them want to vote for Trump. Riiiiight...

 

1). They are deplorable.

2). They were already voting for Trump

3). Boo hoo... I’m sure going to miss them ?

The problem is putting not just half his voters in that basket but everyone who didn't vote for Clinton.  Frankly I think those that do, and you are one of them, are their own worst enemies

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, nonniey said:

The problem is putting not just half his voters in that basket but everyone who didn't vote for Clinton.  Frankly I think those that do, and you are one of them, are their own worst enemies

Oh bull**** nonniey. Point out where I ever said people who didn't vote for Clinton are deplorable or anything close.

 

edit: And if you really cared about stuff like that, you wouldn't support the party that you support. For a decade I've watched them foster the culture that has their base believing that democrats are their real enemy.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[No Excuses]

2 minutes ago, nonniey said:

The problem is putting not just half his voters in that basket but everyone who didn't vote for Clinton.  Frankly I think those that do, and you are one of them, are their own worst enemies

 

It takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to let Trump voters off the hook for their racism and bigotry when literally that was the backbone of his campaign.

 

Every rigorous analysis of voter views since the election has shown that cultural and racial tension was the core basis of Trump's rise and support within the GOP.

 

I get that people don't want a derogatory label attached to them, but let's not pretend that it isn't well earned. Perhaps the onus should be on people to not be deplorable.

[grego]

2 hours ago, No Excuses said:

Solid post twa. There are very few people in this world who have worse takes than Bari Weiss. The NYT op-ed section is a massive dumpster fire for such a great newspaper.

 

Did you see Weiss on morning joe last week? 

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Absolutely not.

 

How do you figure?

 

I can't watch MSNBC either, but I have my reasons that I've explained before in other threads.

 

 Even when they're right, their broadcasts have in some cases become so personal that they seem emotionally compromised.  My mom watches MSNBC more then anything else not because they're right, but because they're just as pissed off as she is, and she feeds off it  I'm serious, AM Joy reminds me a Hannity now. When my mom was staying with me, I'd come home and change to PBS Newshour, and it was like she got bored.  I can't tell if ya'll understand how uncomfortable that makes me that I can tell we've gotten to the point that not only does the right want to hear their version of the news, but so do people on the left because of how angry they are with Trump being elected. 

 

I mean, it was there on the left before him... but my FB feed is on some other **** right now from directions I was hoping not to see.  You'd think Millennials for Revolution would make sure their posts we're accurate enough to keep from getting called out, but I have to look up everything they post first, too (which is a good habit regardless of the source) because they too feel like they are feeding off the rage of others by telling them what they want to hear, not what they need to hear.  They do not compare to the worsts posts circulated by the right, and I do believe some of you are probably assuming it instead of seeing it which is why some of ya'll are even thinking of matching them on that.

 

As for "I'm right if Dems get one or both chambers of congress", because during the Virginia elections, many of the candidates on the local level stayed focused on local issues instead of trying to bring Trump into everything (as the right likes to do things like bring Hillary all the way down into issues she has no control over).  There are people on the right that will call out the left for stuff that isn't true no matter what, but I'm looking at the elections since 2016, DNC is taking seriously all the flaws that lead up to that debacle.  

 

Here's the thing that I don't get about what ya'll want the Dems to do.  Do you want the Dems saying they don't want their War Heroes captured as POWs?  Do you actually believe the DNC should take the stance that anyone that supports Trump is a racist themselves?  I keep saying the whole "fight fire with fire"?  Are ya'll even really specific with that when I see two posts nearly back to back in another thread wanting to tell people that voted for Trump they want them to die? 

 

This isn't about loving thy neighbor, this is about not hating them and allowing that hate to cloud your judgement on what's best for the country as a whole.  Right now, Dems aren't holding rallies insinuating violence against Trump the way he tip-toed around it during the 2016 campaign a couple times.  We won't win that one if we go there, we shouldn't go there, even if we want to.

 

There's a middle ground between playing nice and stooping to their level that I believe a lot of you understand but are too frustrated with the whole thing to really think about where we should fall in that range. Were we fall as a whole in that range matters a helluva lot more then anyone's individual feelings about this, there's a way to go about this without being part of the problem.  Some of ya'll fear Trump getting re-elected because of his base, I'm more concerned about who Dems put up against him.  It can't be a Care Bear and it better not be another Trump.  My fear is we'll either put up a centrist that ignores the progressives again like Hillary did, or someone so far left that they'll take the "personal approach" and it won't be about the issues on either side, period.  This situation requires a technician approach, not a bulldozer.