Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[The Dude]

16 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I mean, we are talking about the same team that went 7-9 last season, with most of its stars playing injured and/or not at all.  The team also added pieces in the offseason.

 

8-8 is pretty much the worst record this team could have.  

 

You think this is an over-.500 team? You really live up to your username. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

You think this is an over-.500 team? You really live up to your username. 

 

The point is it was almost a .500 team last year and it should be better due to health and a few extra pieces.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

It is just 4 games and I got discouraged from the NO game but it is just 4 games and the Skins are leading their division.  I didn't have an opinion of Smith prior to the trade and while the first 4 games have convinced me the comparisons to Cousins were off base, Smith doesn't seem nearly as effective in the pocket as Kirk.  I hope Gruden and Smith can emphasize RPO or other aspects of the offense that leverage Smith's talent more effectively and the skills of the receivers on the roster.  Smith is our guy for the next 3 years the staff needs to focus on how to make use of him, surely they can do more than they have thus far.

 

Yeah I suspect last Sunday was a good wake up call for everyone and we have a bounce back game.  Bullock below who is the film guru guy for the WP and now with the athletic thinks that Jay has adjusted his offense.  I think Alex countered that (via what Finlay said) that he wants more RPOs, boots, and QB keepers.  Will see this Sunday.

 

Mark Bullock‏Verified account @MarkBullockNFL Oct 10

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Mark Bullock Retweeted JR

I think Jay has done a fair amount of adjusting the offense to fit Smith. I'd go as far as to say that it hasn't looked like a typical Jay Gruden offense yet.

Mark Bullock added,

 

 

Then we have this but not sure what to make of it as for offense/style

 

Grant Paulsen‏Verified account @granthpaulsen 22h22 hours ago

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Andy Benoit on #GrantAndDanny right now: "Alex Smith has never been a timing and rhythm passer. He's been a see it then throw it passer." Says Jay Gruden's offense demands the former not the latter.

15 replies4 retweets12 likes

 

[skinny21]

I was not a fan of the trade, and I like Smith as a qb but don’t love him (and I believe he’s a downgrade from Kirk, which doesn’t help my attitude on this front).  

 

Now, with all of that said, we need to improve his protection.  He got absolutely nailed early in the game and too often had pressure in his face.  He’s a good enough qb to win a lot of games, but 1) he needs time to acclimate, 2) Gruden needs to simplify the offense a bit, 3) he needs better protection, 4) the D can’t be Swiss cheese vs the run or pass (or both).  

 

To flesh that out a bit...

1) I’m talking about a lack of time playing with these receivers as well as time in the offense (see 2)...

2) Gruden’s a kid in a candy store and I think it’s hurting the team.  I don’t mean Smith can’t handle the O, but just knowing the plays isn’t the same as perfecting them.  This goes for other players too.  

3) The quick pressure in his face is tough for any where to handle.  There are (IMO) steps Gruden can take to help this.  

4) This D is not nearly as good as we thought.  They’re not as terrible as they showed against NO, but they will struggle against balanced offenses.  I still can’t get over the fact they lost (got rid of) 2 starting corners, especially after seeing the effect of losing two starting receivers the year before.  

[wit33]

QBs 8-25 need talent, game scheme/flow, fortuitous bounces, health of team to consistently win in this league. Alex isn’t on an island on his own with this concept. If anyone would take time to look at victories last season, they all involved the defense, run game and QB playing well for most part. Sure QBs in this average to above average range do things better than others, but it still amounts to them needing similar kind of help. 

 

(Concrete opinion of Alex still developing) 

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

More

 

Andy Benoit on #GrantAndDanny right now: "Alex Smith has never been a timing and rhythm passer. He's been a see it then throw it passer." Says Jay Gruden's offense demands the former not the latter.

15 replies4 retweets12 likes

 

 

 

Wow, I hope this isn't true.  I find it hard to believe a guy could last 10+ years in the league if he had to wait to see a guy open after the break to throw the ball.  That was what Griffin was attempting to do and the game just doesn't work that way, this can't be true.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Grant Paulsen‏Verified account @granthpaulsen 22h22 hours ago

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Andy Benoit on #GrantAndDanny right now: "Alex Smith has never been a timing and rhythm passer. He's been a see it then throw it passer." Says Jay Gruden's offense demands the former not the latter.

15 replies4 retweets12 likes

 

 

I thought coming into this year Alex would be good at pre-snap read and then getting the ball to the safest option as quickly as possible. Kinda like a poor mans Kirk Cousins who pushes the ball down the field more.

 

On the int when Reed "quit" his route, that seemed like a timing throw-to-a-space kinda throw that Kirk and Jay relied on.

 

I see the "see it then throw it" from Alex though. Not ideal. I dont think you can be a successful NFL QB if you have to wait to confirm a guy is open vs feeling it and getting the ball out before the receiver is open.

 

Im hoping more time with his weapons and Jay massaging the approach will get to a more timing/rhythm based passing attack. You see it sometimes but sometimes he does seem to wait on a route or option and by then, in the NFL, its too late.

 

Still way early.

[dyst]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Grant Paulsen‏Verified account @granthpaulsen 22h22 hours ago

More

Andy Benoit on #GrantAndDanny right now: "Alex Smith has never been a timing and rhythm passer. He's been a see it then throw it passer." Says Jay Gruden's offense demands the former not the latter.

15 replies4 retweets12 likes

 

We always bring guys in at wrong positions to try to force them to play differently rather than playing to a guys strengths or making sure to only bring in guys who fit the system.

[DJHJR86]

 

 

 

[bird_1972]

34 minutes ago, dyst said:

We always bring guys in at wrong positions to try to force them to play differently rather than playing to a guys strengths or making sure to only bring in guys who fit the system.

 

This is because the people running the organization SUCK!

[JSSkinz]

Who cares about analytics, you can watch our first 4 games and see that there is no rhythm in the passing game.

 

The Coach, QB, and WR's are not on the same page.

[Veryoldschool]

58 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

 

 

Plugging my fingers in my ears.  Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah , nah , nah , nah, nah , nah , nah , nah, nah , nah , nah , nah......

[JoggingGod]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

The point is it was almost a .500 team last year and it should be better due to health and a few extra pieces.

They got worse at QB and worse in the secondary, did nothing to improve the line or LBs, and did I mention they got WAAAAAAAY worse at QB?

[DJHJR86]

I'd be okay with the trade + extension if this was his 7th or 8th season.  This is his 14th.  I would have been okay with the trade if their was no extension.  Extending him guarantees that he is the starting QB for at least 3 years.  Since everyone in the building says that this is not a rebuild and that the team is in "win now" mode, I see this as a total failure.  Had they went the rebuilding route, Smith is the perfect bridge QB to let a rookie sit behind.  Proclaiming that this is "win now" is what irks me.  Because if they don't "win now", Gruden and (hopefully) Allen are gone.  Then a new coach, new GM, new coaching staff, etc. comes in and inherits this mess that was built to "win now".  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 hours ago, wit33 said:

It’s when I see posted, this is what the majority are thinking on twitter to counter a discussion on this board that loses me. The themes, discussions and opinions differ on this board than other forums, especially twitter.

 

Fans here have more substance and meat to arguments than in any other forum, you know, fanatics! 

 

Just lame and a scapegoat (my opinion) to point to substantiate an opinion on here. 

Perhaps you haven't noticed but tweets are constantly posted on this forum which serve as launching points for discussion.  Of course there is going to be less substance with a character maximum.

 

19 hours ago, wit33 said:

No one has eluded to Alex being elite on this board, so what’s the basis of this point? 

I know you're quirky and all but I've laid it out dozens of times and can't quite tell if you're purposely trolling or not at this point.  My point is that yes - plenty of fans here run from saying that Alex is elite.  But they will say in the same post that Kirk is a good QB and list X, Y, Z, etc. reasons why Alex is better and/or better fit with Jay.  If Kirk is good but Alex is better at a lot more things, than that would mean that Alex Smith is very close to an elite player.  Even if they don't want to say that.  The entire point of my argument here is that if Alex was really Kirk Cousins + X, Y, Z positives, there is not a chance in the world the Redskins get to trade for him and pay him a salary less than that of his peers.  GM's would be chomping at the bit to sign Alex Smith if he's Kirk Cousins+. 

 

19 hours ago, wit33 said:

What’s the point of this position? You understand no one has said Smith is elite, literally no one. The group of elite is miiiiiiiles from guys 8-25. 

Again, with trying to hang on that nobody will SAY he's elite, but the same people would tell us all why 2017 Alex is who he is and is better than a 'good QB' at X, Y, Z.  You are correct in that nobody will SAY he's elite, but they certainly would say he can do and does most of the things elite QBs do.

 

As for your 8-25 quarterbacks are all pretty much the same and how they are miiiillles away deal.  We've tangled on this before and I disagree.  Both of us have our heels dug in about this, so it's not really a road worth travelling at this point.

[wit33]

@BatteredFanSyndrome

 

I just feel the general consensus was Alex was/is at least comparable to Kirk. Do you believe this to be true as well... the general consensus? This can totally turn out to be wrong and Kirk make another step and Alex be inconsistent all year. 

 

For me personally, I remain hopeful Alex will provide similar value at the QB position as Kirk did. Being honest, Im less certain whether that will be the case after 4 games , but doing best to give it time. It’d be great if Alex’s intangibles/skill set and legs balanced out his inefficiencies over a season. I believe we’ve seen a balance of both to date— Inneficiencies and intangibles/skill set. Time will tell. If Alex = Playoffs, then all is good for me. 

 

Just for perspective purposes, i would’ve supported backing McCoy for the year and going much cheaper at the position. Alex’s deal is reasonable in today’s market is all I’m saying and supporting. 

 

I understand what you mean with the elite stuff as it relates to Kirk comparisons, but point being not one individual has stated Alex is elite. No one felt this way. You may be  proven right in that Kirk is much better than Alex, not denying this as a possibility. 

 

 

[bird_1972]

47 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I'd be okay with the trade + extension if this was his 7th or 8th season.  This is his 14th.  I would have been okay with the trade if their was no extension.  Extended him guarantees that he is the starting QB for at least 3 years.  Since everyone in the building says that this is not a rebuild and that the team is in "win now" mode, I see this as a total failure.  Had they went the rebuilding route, Smith is the perfect bridge QB to let a rookie sit behind.  Proclaiming that this is "win now" is what irks me.  Because if they don't "win now", Gruden and (hopefully) Allen are gone.  Then a new coach, new GM, new coaching staff, etc. comes in and inherits this mess that was built to "win now".  

 

Honestly, if we are in "win now" mode and we made all of our offseason decisions based on this, AND we don't win now ... heads should roll. That includes Allen + all coaching staff.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

8 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Honestly, if we are in "win now" mode and we made all of our offseason decisions based on this, AND we don't win now ... heads should roll. That includes Allen + all coaching staff.

 

I agree with that. 

 

On one hand, a 2-3 year "win-now" window wasn't the dumbest idea. We had been competitive for a few years in a row, have our best player now into his 30s, and have a coach in year 5. I'm not saying that they made the correct moves, but the idea itself isn't ridiculous. 

 

But, if it fails, then it's time to start ALL OVER and build around that young DL, the young CBs, and Guice. 

[Rex Tomb]

53 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

But, if it fails, then it's time to start ALL OVER and build around that young DL, the young CBs, and Guice. 

I agree completely.  I've been a big Jay Gruden defender, but I'm losing my patience with the lack of preparedness and execution we continually see game after game. And it's such a roller coaster ride - one week we look like world beaters, the next - who the hell knows?  I actually think we'll come out and stomp Carolina (or at the very least be competitive) this week after our performance on Monday night.  We'll have a bunch of pissed off players; and no one is giving us a chance.  For some reason, that's when Gruden is at his best.  So frustrating though.

[megared]

39 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

On one hand, a 2-3 year "win-now" window wasn't the dumbest idea. We had been competitive for a few years in a row, have our best player now into his 30s, and have a coach in year 5. I'm not saying that they made the correct moves, but the idea itself isn't ridiculous. 

 

But, if it fails, then it's time to start ALL OVER and build around that young DL, the young CBs, and Guice. 

 

It was dumb.  Considering we have yet to even win a playoff game under Gruden, or finish more than a game above .500, our choices should've been either re-signing Kirk, or rebuilding.  Once we knew Kirk was gone, we should've cut bait for assets (before last season began). 

 

Even bringing in a marginal QB as a stopgap would've been better than not only acquiring Alex Smith, but handing him $71 M guaranteed to lead the team for at least the next three seasons.  I think fans would've been more understanding of being trash for a season or two, but being in a position to draft a franchise QB and acquire other young talent.  Instead we're watching the 'idea' of competing evaporate in slow motion, when in truth we never really were all of that 'competitive'.  Yes, most weeks we can compete...but I don't think anyone here believes we have the personnel (and/or coaching) to consistently compete with playoff teams.  

 

I can see teams like Minnesota, Philly, New England, Kansas City, that feel they are a player or two away reasonably adopting that strategy.   

 

In some twisted way, I'm glad Bruce Allen was delusional about the ceiling of this roster.  Just as we'll probably never be in a position to be contenders with him in charge, the idea of him leading a rebuilding effort may be actually worse.  And hopefully this path he chose hastens his exit.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

4 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Wow, I hope this isn't true.  I find it hard to believe a guy could last 10+ years in the league if he had to wait to see a guy open after the break to throw the ball.  That was what Griffin was attempting to do and the game just doesn't work that way, this can't be true.

 

I'm with you, I think that report is nonsense. Everyone knows QBs throw long before the receiver is open, that is especially true with soft armed QBs such as Alex Smith.

[Skinsinparadise]

Cooley has a new podcast up, just listened to it.  If he's right, good news and bad news but mostly good.

 

He thought Alex had a terrible game -- happy feet, inaccurate, didn't see the field. 

 

However, he thought the receivers looked good -- according to him there were many plays where receivers were wide open where Alex either missed them or didn't see them (Keim who was at the game echoed that).  He thought the scheme was good and there were plenty of explosive plays to be had including missed Tds.

 

Like I do, he thinks Alex will bounce back.  But I found it good to hear that receivers were getting open (and a lot according Cooley).

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It’s hard to tell on TV, but I thought I saw guys running open more than I usually do on the broadcast.  It really looked like Alex’s first read would be behind the LOS on every play.  Perhaps he got rattled and started seeing rushes that weren’t there.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

9 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Wow, I hope this isn't true.  I find it hard to believe a guy could last 10+ years in the league if he had to wait to see a guy open after the break to throw the ball.  That was what Griffin was attempting to do and the game just doesn't work that way, this can't be true.

 

Benoit said that months ago on his podcast and that really concerned me then. He really knows his stuff and does a lot of film analysis.

[tshile]

10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

The point is it was almost a .500 team last year and it should be better due to health and a few extra pieces.

The nfl is a week to week league. Last season is irrelevant.