Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Cousins was here for 6 years, 3 as our starter. And we won exactly ZERO playoff games. The Cousins argument is pointless because he wasnt staying here regardless. He didnt want to be here. But lets not act like we lost Joe Montana when he left.

Who knows? How many 4th quarter picks do you think he would have thrown?

 

Zero.

[NickyJ]

34 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I wonder how Cousins would have done if he had AP for that game, instead of relying on himself, with 11 yards rushing to lead the team in yards, and YPC.

 

Or how badly would we have lost today?

I wonder how Smith would have done if he had Pierre, DeSean, Crowder, and Chris Thompson for this game. Guess we'll never know.

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I wonder how Smith would have done if he had Pierre and DeSean for this game. Guess we'll never know.

Heck, if you listen to Alex Smith mic'ed up there were several times in the huddle where he said, "Where's Ryan Grant! I need Ryan stat!"

[NickyJ]

Just now, Burgold said:

Heck, if you listen to Alex Smith mic'ed up there were several times in the huddle where he said, "Where's Ryan Grant! I need Ryan stat!"

Surprisingly, Ryan Grant didn't get a catch at all in the 2016 Panthers game. I wonder who's basement they locked him in lol

[Mooka]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Cousins was here for 6 years, 3 as our starter. And we won exactly ZERO playoff games. The Cousins argument is pointless because he wasnt staying here regardless. He didnt want to be here. But lets not act like we lost Joe Montana when he left.

 

 

We let a 84million guaranteed QB walk for a 3rd round pick. 

 

Absolutely retarded. 

[Warhead36]

When Smith drops back and can go through his reads and just let it rip, he can succeed. He actually has a pretty good arm so I don't get why he's so damn conservative all the time.

 

But he also tends to hold the ball a lot and our pass protection has not been consistent this year.

[clskinsfan]

Just now, Mooka said:

 

We let a 84million guaranteed QB walk for a 3rd round pick. 

 

Absolutely retarded. 

So you think Cousins was signing HERE for 84 mill guaranteed? ummmm. NOPE.

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I wonder how Smith would have done if he had Pierre, DeSean, Crowder, and Chris Thompson for this game. Guess we'll never know.

 

Probably not much better. The problem hasn't been guys getting open, it's Smith getting the ball to them.

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

So you think Cousins was signing HERE for 84 mill guaranteed? ummmm. NOPE.

 

Of course he would have.

[Mooka]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

So you think Cousins was signing HERE for 84 mill guaranteed? ummmm. NOPE.

 

Uh no... I think we're the only organization in football that allows a starting QB to walk for nothing. The 84 million was to signify he's a GOOD starting QB. 

 

Eagles traded Bradford for a 1st and 4th, after drafting Wentz, in a contract year.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

14 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I wonder how Smith would have done if he had Pierre, DeSean, Crowder, and Chris Thompson for this game. Guess we'll never know.

 

I wonder how Cousins would have looked with Hunt at RB, Kelce at TE , and Tyreek Hill giving him great field position and TDs on special teams while being one of the most explosive players in the league on offense. Oh and Andy Reid coaching him for years 

[Morneblade]

13 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'm going to put 60% of Smith's struggles on Gruden. No preseason snaps and pretty much no snaps with any of his receivers even during practice has led to Smith looking preseason rusty with his receivers during the regular season. They are not in rhythm with each other. The only guy  who practiced in the OTAs and preseason was Richardson and he's doing okay.

 

I'm not sure if I'm kidding with this post or serious, but I think what I've said above is probably at least fifty percent true. Smith lacks timing, trust, and familiarity with his receivers. I bet part of that is because of how cautious Gruden is with players and how he soft he is during practice.

 

Edit: and if history is any measure, Cousins would have lost today versus Carolina. He would have tossed an interception, fumbled, or gone three and out. In any case, he'd burn no clock and would not score points. Alex leading us to three wasn't good enough, but it held up.

 

The only reason we're in position to even attempt a 56 yard FG is because Smith got stripped sacked, and Trent caught the ball and actually got positive yardage. So, Alex did exactly what you say Cousins would have, fumbled. Except that Williams caught it and got yardage, and Hopkins has to hit a career best 56 yarder in not so good conditions. But let's say that Alex was better than Kirk here, rather than that he got bailed out big time.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'm going to put 60% of Smith's struggles on Gruden. No preseason snaps and pretty much no snaps with any of his receivers even during practice has led to Smith looking preseason rusty with his receivers during the regular season. They are not in rhythm with each other. The only guy  who practiced in the OTAs and preseason was Richardson and he's doing okay.

 

I'm not sure if I'm kidding with this post or serious, but I think what I've said above is probably at least fifty percent true. Smith lacks timing, trust, and familiarity with his receivers. I bet part of that is because of how cautious Gruden is with players and how he soft he is during practice.

 

Edit: and if history is any measure, Cousins would have lost today versus Carolina. He would have tossed an interception, fumbled, or gone three and out. In any case, he'd burn no clock and would not score points. Alex leading us to three wasn't good enough, but it held up.

 

I wasn't happy with Alex not getting much preseason snaps but no way I am putting 60% of it on Jay.   As Cooley pointed out, receivers are getting open, Alex needs to throw to them and improve his accuracy.   As for Kirk and Alex -- its only 5 games and I get some don't like Kirk or feel better if he struggles since he's not here anymore.  But so far its not even been close.  The passing game has gone from the team's strength to its weakness. 

 

QBR which most agree is the most comprehensive stat to judge QBs, Kirk #7, Alex #21. http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr    

 

I'd say the issue with the offense right now is a combination of the interior line, not having a true #1 receiver and just so so play from Alex for the most part.  But I am willing to give a long leash to see how it plays out.  I said in the off season 8 games but I'll give him even more.  I am unimpressed with Alex in the first 5 games, don't hate his play either.

 

But I am on board with the camp who say give the dude time to develop chemistry with his receivers and Jay, etc.   I think he will end up looking better at the season progresses than he has thus far.

[clskinsfan]

6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Of course he would have.

 

Not a chance. HE DIDNT WANT TO BE HERE. And he had all of the leverage to push that option.

 

5 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

Uh no... I think we're the only organization in football that allows a starting QB to walk for nothing. The 84 million was to signify he's a GOOD starting QB. 

 

Eagles traded Bradford for a 1st and 4th, after drafting Wentz, in a contract year.

 

See my above post. 

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I wasn't happy with Alex not getting much preseason snaps but no way I am putting 60% of it on Jay.   As Cooley pointed out, receivers are getting open, Alex needs to throw to them and improve his accuracy.   As for Kirk and Alex -- its only 5 games and I get some don't like Kirk or feel better if he struggles since he's not here anymore.  But so far its not even been close.  The passing game has gone from the team's strength to its weakness. 

That's fair, but you should never contest random percentages I pull out of thin air. They are always rock solid, absolute, and correct.

 

Edit: Moreover, there's a zero percent chance that Kirk Cousins wins the Carolina game today. Reason? He ain't on the team.

[NickyJ]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

Probably not much better. The problem hasn't been guys getting open, it's Smith getting the ball to them.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Any QB with all those tools to work with needs to succeed. Case in point, Alex lighting it up last season with all the tools he had in Kansas. A team with tools succeeds, Kirk has those tools in Minny and is putting them to good use. Alex doesn't have those tools here, so we get what we have now. The QBs traded situations, and surprise surprise, they traded their success too lol

 

Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

I wonder how Cousins would have looked with Hunt, Kelce, Tyreek Hill and Andy Reid coaching him for years 

You're kind of making my point here lol

[Skinsinparadise]

Kirk doing it with Minny without a running game.  Minny's running game ranked #30.  His O line stinks, too.  Alex had the best running game in the league last year, ranked #1.

 

Even if I wasn't familiar with stats, its easier to just notice the difference with the eye test alone.  I noticed it in week #1.  

 

Having said that, its early, we got more chapters to go.  I think the narrative can change.  But people here aren't exactly taking a wild leap that Kirk has seriously outperformed Alex thus far, its been a national story in a few places

 

[Morneblade]

Just now, NickyJ said:

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Any QB with all those tools to work with needs to succeed. Case in point, Alex lighting it up last season with all the tools he had in Kansas. A team with tools succeeds, Kirk has those tools in Minny and is putting them to good use. Alex doesn't have those tools here, so we get what we have now. The QBs traded situations, and surprise surprise, they traded their success too lol

 

 

Well, then you disagree with most of the guys, inlcuding Cooley, that follow this team. The issue is that Alex did not really light it up last season. He barely had 4k in passing, a first for him. That is Cousins worst year as a starter. Cousins is on track for well over 5k this year, with 35+ TD's. Alex is on pace for under 20.

 

Basically, Cousins has a much higher ceiling than Smith has.

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Not a chance. HE DIDNT WANT TO BE HERE. And he had all of the leverage to push that option.

 

Of course he did, Allen refused to give him anything that was not a complete insult. Allen thought they could do better. And after he low-balled Kirk out the door, he went and got his man. And quickly opened his wallet. Facts, bro.

[redskins4ever28]

31 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Cousins was here for 6 years, 3 as our starter. And we won exactly ZERO playoff games. The Cousins argument is pointless because he wasnt staying here regardless. He didnt want to be here. But lets not act like we lost Joe Montana when he left.

Who knows? How many 4th quarter picks do you think he would have thrown?

So many of you get defensive on this subject. Let me be clear. I didn’t think he was the next Brady. But he was way better then smith. People were fooled by smiths numbees when his stats were quite padded.

secondly he didn’t wanna be here after we basically tagged him two years in a row. I wouldn’t have felt wanted either. How many playoff games do you think we will win with smith? I can already tell you. 0. We might make the playoffs tho. Truth is it’s just another blunder by a very disgunctional franchise. But again, I’m here I’m happy we won, but I will not put blinders on and pretend that what I saw at qb today was literally embrassing at times

[NickyJ]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk doing it with Minny without a running game.  Minny's running game ranked #30.  His O line stinks, too.  Alex had the best running game in the league last year, ranked #1.

 

Minnesota ranked #7 last year in rushing. Their offense is almost a carbon copy, Kirk is the only difference. The team adjusted its offense to fit him in, you take the good with the bad.

 

8 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Well, then you disagree with most of the guys, inlcuding Cooley, that follow this team. The issue is that Alex did not really light it up last season. He barely had 4k in passing, a first for him. That is Cousins worst year as a starter. Cousins is on track for well over 5k this year, with 35+ TD's. Alex is on pace for under 20.

 

Basically, Cousins has a much higher ceiling than Smith has.

Cousins had a dream team receiving corps in Garcon, DeSean, Crowder, Reed, Davis, and Thompson. That he managed to gain 4,000 yards with a lesser receiving corps is no more an outlier than Alex's 4k last year. And that's not even considering that when you have a good runningback, you're probably going to throw a little less often lol. Cousins' ceiling may be higher, but that remains to be seen. Their results are on par when their tools are on par: Alex did great with a good offense and defense surrounding him, Kirk is on track for a good season with a good offense and defense surrounding him.

[JoggingGod]

3 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Minnesota ranked #7 last year in rushing. Their offense is almost a carbon copy, Kirk is the only difference. The team adjusted its offense to fit him in, you take the good with the bad.

 

Cousins had a dream team receiving corps in Garcon, DeSean, Crowder, Reed, Davis, and Thompson. That he managed to gain 4,000 yards with a lesser receiving corps is no more an outlier than Alex's 4k last year. Cousins' ceiling may be higher, but that remains to be seen. Their results are on par when their tools are on par: Alex did great with a good offense and defense surrounding him, Kirk is on track for a good season with a good offense and defense surrounding him.

He got 4100 with a terrible corps last year lol

[Morneblade]

Just now, NickyJ said:

Minnesota ranked #7 last year in rushing. Their offense is almost a carbon copy, Kirk is the only difference. The team adjusted its offense to fit him in, you take the good with the bad.

 

Wrong. Their running game coordinator DIED the first week of TC. They lost both starting guards. They are 31st in rushing. They had to put everything on Kirks back.

 

Just now, NickyJ said:

Cousins had a dream team receiving corps in Garcon, DeSean, Crowder, Reed, Davis, and Thompson. That he managed to gain 4,000 yards is no more an outlier than Alex's 4k last year. Cousins' ceiling may be higher, but that remains to be seen. Their results are on par when their tools are on par: Alex did great with a good offense and defense surrounding him, Kirk is on track for a good season with a good offense and defense surrounding him.

 

Kirk had nearly 5k yards with that group.

Kirk has the 22nd ranked defense this year. That is not good

Kirk has the 31st ranked rushing attack this year, and a OL that is injured and not that good when healthy.

 

Your comparisons are way off.

1 minute ago, JoggingGod said:

He got 4100 with a terrible corps last year lol

 

and a MASH unit of a OL

[redskins4ever28]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Wrong. Their running game coordinator DIED the first week of TC. They lost both starting guards. They are 31st in rushing. They had to put everything on Kirks back.

 

 

Kirk had nearly 5k yards with that group.

Kirk has the 22nd ranked defense this year. That is not good

Kirk has the 31st ranked rushing attack this year, and a OL that is injured and not that good when healthy.

 

Your comparisons are way off.

 

and a MASH unit of a OL

 

This is exactly what I was about to post but thank you for doing it for me. Minnesota has no rush game. Today was the FIRST day they had one. Before today it was an absolute joke. Not to mention, Kirk has carried that team with his wideouts especially with how bad that defense has been playing. Monday night last week we have a chance in a shootout with Kirk. A shootout with Alex is laughable. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Smith’s second touchdown today was a fantastic qb play.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Minnesota ranked #7 last year in rushing. Their offense is almost a carbon copy, Kirk is the only difference. The team adjusted its offense to fit him in, you take the good with the bad.

 

 

It has zero relevance IMO. And nope Kirk isn't the only difference.  The two backs that did it for them, one went to SF and the other is trying to come back from an ACL injury.  Kirk wasn't the Minny QB last year.   Heck Alex had the #1 running game LAST year.  So what?

 

43 minutes ago, Burgold said:

s a zero percent chance that Kirk Cousins wins the Carolina game today. Reason? He ain't on the team.

 

I'l give you that. ?

[Alexa]

The Smith fan boys crack me up. 21 completions for 160 yards. lol,   Today was all about AP and getting some turnovers. Not about Alex Smith. Not going to win a lot of games with the way the passing game is right now.