Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[JoggingGod]

21 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

This is actually laughably wrong, and you've now lost all credibility. If you think Smith has been the same QB his entire career, well then let's just say you don't remember Smith's first few years in the league.

He played fine with two great coaches in Andy Reid and John Harbaugh and elite offenses. Jay is not nearly as good and he’s being exposed without Hill/Kelce/Hunt.

[ncr2h]

2 hours ago, NeverSurrender said:

I remember in 2015, after the first few games everyone was screaming for Cousins to be benched.  The offense wasnt clicking and Kirk seemed lost.  It took about 5 weeks before he got comfortable and started really lighting it up.  Im hoping thats where Alex is.  I still think he is smarter with the ball and makes good decisions.  If we get the O-line playing better I think Alex will play much better each week and we will see more completions to WRs.  No need to panic, were in first place.  

By his 4th game in 2015 (inclusive of his 2012, 2013, and 2014 appearances), Kirk had already flashed a higher ceiling than Smith would ever have. The 2012 Browns game, 2014 Eagles game, and 2015 Eagles game were all dominant, top tier passing performances with limited help from other facets of the team.

Smith's performances to date have been in either one of two buckets:

 

1) Victories that came from a run-heavy offensive approach where he performed highly efficiently (but was not required to carry the offense on his back)

2) Losses in which we had to get away from the run game early and he was not able to generate any meaningful offense through the air until the game was already out of reach (if at all)

 

There are any number of QBs in the league who can achieve a track record like that. What Kirk showed early was that, even when the defense was giving up lots of points, special teams giving up TDs, or run game wasn't working (or all 3 at the same time), his arm could either keep us in the game or win. And he had already showed that by his 4th game in every season that he started for us, with the exception of 2013 (although the second half of the Falcons game was a similarly impressive passing performance).

[RemoveSnyder]

The Giants and Eli are prime examples of the flawed logic of "building around your Vet QB," when that vet QB ain't Elway or Favre, or one of the very few (a handful) of the Unicorn QB's in the whole history of the NFL.

 

On the other side of that same ledger are the thousands upon thousands of nobody QBs in the history of the NFL. And Smith is one of them. 

 

And while with Eli, I would acquiesce, has previously in his career had moments in time when he was playing very well, everyone should be able to see that he is on the downside of his career.

 

Everyone and their grandmother can see that Eli is trash (in the now). But more importantly, everyone (should have) come to that realization last year as well. And that realization occurred prior to, and leading up to, the draft.

 

And if you had any doubts about the Giant's record last year being an aberration, this year's current Giant's record buttresses those people who pointed their finger squarely at Manning. 

 

So ...

Sure, everyone (myself included) would love to have Saquan Barkley, truly dynamic. BUT ... the QB situation is still a mess. And for those of us in the know, who follow collegiate sports and know how to evaluate, they found themselves in a worthwhile QB draft class, which aligned for several teams to take a chance on a 1st round QB. They purposefully bypassed the QB position. 

 

So too did this organization. And that point, using the Giants as an example, is also profound for this washington organization, because within arms reach in the 1st round, was Josh Rosen. And as this organization has been know for, for several years, and in several instances, they are a group which predetermines which positions to target and which ones not to, all the damn time. 

 

 

But to synthesize it all, effectively this organization failed to account for how average Smith is versus how decent the QB class was last year, and clearly didn't understand the wealth of ability that Rosen has. And they were within arms reach of getting him. And a few people, like myself, were banging the table last April, trying to wake someone up. 

 

As for to the counter argument most often used last year to quell the talk of drafting a 1st round QB, it circled mostly around cliche laden excuses like: "don't upset Smith (his psyche) after just trading for him and undercutting him with a rookie QB," or the standard: "oh God the money aspect would be insane," or some other type of excuse along those lines. 

 

But the simple, salient, point that was being expressed, all along, was that (once again) this organization was making choices and predeterminations, that us amateurs could already see were not going to work out. It simply comes down to being able to evaluate talent, versus not being able to do that.

Many of us, myself included, were saying: "you're making a mistake by propping up Smith as a QB to 'build around,'" as opposed to what should have been the operating mantra of this organization, which was: "the QB position is still in the critical range."  

 

 

Alex Smith is not a championship QB. And he ain't taking over games by himself, actually never did. Smith has always been, at his best (thanks to both Andy Reid and Doug Peterson) a game manager, who when the other 10 guys around him were better than the defense's 11, he looked "ok," or "efficient," throwing screen passes. 

 

The Giants probably have some of the most enticing and athletic group of skilled players out there. I mean, if Goff was with the Giants, they'd be rollin' people just the same as the Rams are with their skilled guys like Gurley and Cooks. The athletic superlatives for Barkley and Engram and Beckham and others are just as pronounced. But the Giants clearly need a QB. 

 

So too does this organization.

And it's tiresome to have to continually point out that this org missed out on last year's draft. It's not just the fact that they went all in on Smith, but that they ALSO, simultaneously, bypassed the draft. 

 

For all the people who have since the start of this season, made concessions to the fact of Smith's average ability, who have likewise also tried to pump the brakes and talk "reason" and "sense" in defense of this organization, fail to realized that last year WAS a MISSED OPPORTUNITY. And that **** has happened countless times during the Bruce Allen era. 

 

I mean, I get it, everyone now wants to talk about drafting a QB to groom behind Smith. Well, sorry to tell you, but that should have been at the top of the priority list last year, starting the moment our previous franchise QB was departed.

And, also, when looking back upon the history of drafting in the NFL ... you know, team's ALWAYS miss monumental chances to alter their fate, while one team out there lands right on it. 

 

And I mention that because, this organization seems to always be one year too late, or they prioritize one position over another, when it should have been flipped.

 

In time before, whenever I researched this org's drafting history, for example, the Casserly years of drafting, it was always something like, they had the positions of need locked down, they knew what positions to address, but they always seemed to miss on the specific player. You know? They went CB when they should have gone DE, or something like that. And then later in the draft, the plucky CB in the mid-round that they then bypassed because they assumed they already addressed the position, he ends up being the gem. Ultimately they walk away having addressed the clear and present 'needs' but they get the order mixed up and they end up with JAGs. 

 

So, I only mention that, in passing, and I could go into specific detail in a different context, but it might be that whoever this Org picks as the young draftee QB to develop behind Smith, may never live up to last year's class. It happens all the time. It certainly could happen again. 

 

So, you had to just KNOW, that the QB position was still a glaring deficiency, and if you didn't then step aside. 

 

 

The one brief note I can make about Rosen, just in passing, is that he popped early on, Freshman year. And that's an important marker (there are reasons to that end). He was, early on, the guy most talked about and analyzed in similar vein to Andrew Luck. And Rosen had text book mechanics, "perfect" throwing motion, text book development from "Elite 11" camps and other specialist in the field during his development. And multiple offensive styles from traditional under-center rhythm drop-back, to Spread, to some WCO. He already had a plateful of styles and concepts in his maturation. 

 

So that's all just brief highlights to say something very simple, such as, he was worth the investment. 

 

 

The problem all along with Smith, was the state of limbo that this organization now finds itself in. It was predictable. Because, mostly, of the contract they have in place for Smith and the years that it's going to eat up. 

 

I guess it's hard to explain something that is just intuitive to me. For reference, you can check the Comprehensive for my posts on the record, before the fact, to verify that I was on this tip long ago. I had argued, vehemently, that despite having already traded for Smith (which I would not have done in the first place, if it had been my choice) that I still would have traded up, trading with the Raiders, to #10, and taken Rosen.

 

Despite the sunken cost already invested into Smith (had I been given the reigns) I would have tried to ensure the future by drafting a QB, knowing what I already knew about Smith, but especially so because of the specific player and how fortuitous the draft fell. 

 

[Morneblade]

4 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

This is actually laughably wrong, and you've now lost all credibility. If you think Smith has been the same QB his entire career, well then let's just say you don't remember Smith's first few years in the league.

 

Dude, obviously you don't have any idea what was being talked about here.

Alex Smith is the same dink and dunk guy he's been since he was a rookie. Is he better at it? Sure

Did he come in a gunslinging QB and morphed over the years? **** no. He's the same guy. Just more efficient.

 

 

[wit33]

 

No way this team isn’t 2-7 right now judging from this thread the last week. 

 

Eassssssy. 

 

Yes, Smith has barely looked average overall as a whole (terrible last week), but a lot of season is left. Confident Jay will create comfort for Alex in the passing as the Skins move forward. Doing my best to read underlying messages through coach speak, as it appears Jay realizes some changes need to take place in the passing game. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

No way this team isn’t 2-7 right now judging from this thread the last week. 

 

Eassssssy. 

 

Yes, Smith has barely looked average overall as a whole (terrible last week), but a lot of season is left. Confident Jay will create comfort for Alex in the passing as the Skins move forward. Doing my best to read underlying messages through coach speak, as it appears Jay realizes some changes need to take place in the passing game. 

 

 

 

Keim wrote an article that Alex has had worse games than last Monday (at least rating wise) in recent years and has typically come back with a strong comeback game.  Jay tends to do well after losses with a bounce back win.  So some hope on that front.

 

The main thing that bothers me about the first 4 games is while I expected Alex to be a downgrade but he's coming off a bigger downgrade than I expected -- that's a little depressing to me.  And not just statistically but just watching both.   I know some people here might think I'd bask in that because I didn't like the trade -- but far from it.  Being right about stuff gives me no satisfaction if its a negative prediction -- heck good GMs are wrong 50% of the time -- so when any of us brag about doing better than 50% its either selective memory or we need to stop what we are doing and join an NFL team and be the next John Schneider.  I've been right, I've been wrong, who cares.  

 

I agree with Monk's post about the last draft being a missed opportunity, I talked about that many times in the off season.   I'd like to see a bounce back from this team but especially from Alex.  I hate the idea that we are so dependent on a 33 year old running back to succeed.  Having said that, the season isn't over.  The sample size from Alex is small.  So I still see him and the team as an open book -- the book hasn't been written on either IMO.

 

Same thing on the Jay thread.  People pouncing on him for it being the typical inconsistent season.  I get the frustration and I like Jay.  But geez, the season isn't over.  If it ends up playing like it has so far and people want to kill him for it, I get that.  But let it play out first.   What if we win the next 4 in a row?  Or whatever.

 

As for Alex its a bit complex but anyone who thinks his performance and his predecessors aren't interlinked and relevant I think are 100% wrong and its not even close) -- just watch any national coverage of this let alone local.  People around the team have all said it is relevant to the future of the FO.   Their futures are interlinked IMO big time as long as Bruce stays in the building.  That's not going away. 

 

But that movie hasn't played out yet either though the first chapter is telling.   Hopefully the storm clouds blow over with a win.    If they lose I think it will be a miserable week.  Only upside to a bad year for me is Bruce is likely gone.  But if Alex ends up so so this season -- that would stink because we'd be rebuilding with a new coach and a 35 year old QB -- that's not very exciting to me.  So hopefully things turn around this Sunday. 

 

 

Chris Russell‏ @Russellmania621 12h12 hours ago

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Chris Russell Retweeted Dan Steinberg

Lots of frustration. A lot of anger in that building and in the executive branch. They won't say it, but many wondering when the hammer is going to drop. A bad loss on Sunday & a large # of empty seats just might do it. #Redskins

[Darrell Green Fan]

17 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

This is actually laughably wrong, and you've now lost all credibility. If you think Smith has been the same QB his entire career, well then let's just say you don't remember Smith's first few years in the league.

It's always a rock solid strategy to take one season out of a 13 year career and make a claim that this aberration of a season is the norm. As another poster has pointed out what we are seeing this season is exactly who Alex Smith has been for 12 of his 13 seasons.  No doubt he has improved dramatically from his first few seasons in SF, that does not mean he has not been a play it safe dinker and dunker who is virtually incapable of bringing a team back from a 2 score deficit  his entire career.  

[Morneblade]

I'm just going to throw this out there. If we are able to run the football, Alex Smith will very likely play well. If we are unable to run the football, Alex Smith will not play well. So, against the best rush defense we've faced all year, we're going to need to run the football effectively to have a chance of winning.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

I'm just going to throw this out there. If we are able to run the football, Alex Smith will very likely play well. If we are unable to run the football, Alex Smith will not play well. So, against the best rush defense we've faced all year, we're going to need to run the football effectively to have a chance of winning.

 

I agree.  I don't think Alex is some kind of disaster like we saw against NO -- I think that will be an aberration.  Unless, Peterson is out.  Some gave me a hard time for my optimism switching to pessimism when Guice got hurt -- saying he's just one dude.  Yeah I get he's just one dude.  But the dude IMO is special.   And for Alex specifically he needs a guy like that to help keep defenses off balance and maximize the  threat of RPOs.

 

So anytime we have a good game on the ground, I expect Alex to play well.  Each time we don't I think it will be shaky.  Hopefully, the run game will bounce back.  I do blame Alex some for both Peterson and Thompson coming into this game hurt -- those were almost cruel passes to both of them, it set them up to get leveled.  I don't think he saw the defender ready to pounce on Peterson but still geez put a little mustard on the screen pass versus that floater which made it easy for the Saints defender to just wallop Peterson. 

 

Having said all of that, I think the over the top negativity around the team is a good omen.  I said the same before the GB game.  Craig Hoffman who is around the team said they are really angry and practicing with an edge.  I think a bounce back game is coming tomorrow.    

[wit33]

@Skinsinparadise

 

I feel very similar in regards to Alex. Outside of a few critical 3rd down scrambles (I place supreme value on this, so it helps) I’ve been underwhelmed. 

 

I don’t completely lump Alex in with FO or coaching as I believe he’ll survive “the hammer” and be the QB next year, no matter what. Also, the FO and coach’s “necks” wouldve been on line if Kirk was under center and team had a below average year. With that said, to your point and others, an overhaul with an average to above average QB entering his prime (Kirk) would’ve more palpable. 

 

Hopeful some sort of staple in passing game will begin to take shape. Example, a connection with a particular player, like Reeeeeed. Just something for Alex to be comfortable with and to provide counters to strength during course of game. Passing game seems extremely far away at this point.  

 

Still remain confident in Jay doing what’s required to develop an at minimum average passing attack. Though, confidence in him has decreased. Only Time will tell. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

I feel very similar in regards to Alex. Outside of a few critical 3rd down scrambles (I place supreme value on this, so it helps) I’ve been underwhelmed. 

 

I don’t completely lump Alex in with FO or coaching as I believe he’ll survive “the hammer” and be the QB next year, no matter what. Also, the FO and coach’s “necks” wouldve been on line if Kirk was under center and team had a below average year. With that said, to your point and others, an overhaul with an average to above average QB entering his prime (Kirk) would’ve more palpable. 

 

Hopeful some sort of staple in passing game will begin to take shape. Example, a connection with a particular player, like Reeeeeed. Just something for Alex to be comfortable with and to provide counters to strength during course of game. Passing game seems extremely far away at this point.  

 

Still remain confident in Jay doing what’s required to develop an at minimum average passing attack. Though, confidence in him has decreased. Only Time will tell. 

 

Sure, no doubt Alex survives the hammer no matter what the outcome -- he's basically here for sure for three seasons based on that contract.

 

I don't think Jay survives 8-8 or less.  I don't think Bruce does either -- that part I'd be happy about it.

 

Having said that, its still early.  What if they win tomorrow and then win against Dallas.  All of a sudden then Jay is good again and Alex is a "winner".  The NFL is fickle.  On one hand I am willing to comment along the way -- so I get people coming on with hard opinions.  But I don't think you can close the book on squat after 4 games in the season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Article today in WP about Alex

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/13/with-redskins-alex-smith-is-still-work-progress/?utm_term=.c0c800e9a6e9

 

When the Washington Redskins traded for quarterback Alex Smith in late January, the people who run the organization were thrilled. Many said he was the player they wanted most to replace Kirk Cousins but fretted that he might not be available. When the deal with Kansas City was finalized in March, the sense at team headquarters was that the steady and composed Smith might be an upgrade over the more emotional and sometimes impulsive Cousins.

 

...And yet, heading into Sunday’s game against the Carolina Panthers, a lot feels off. Many of those passing yards came in Washington’s two losses, when the Redskins trailed by at least two scores and abandoned their running game in a desperate effort to catch up. Smith hasn’t appeared to build a complete bond with any of his receivers beyond running back Chris Thompson, who is intended to be a complementary playmaker.

 

...On Tuesday, Gruden said the offense had become “too one-dimensional” against the Saints, with plays that called for Smith to drop straight back. A lot of Smith’s success has come when he is moving side to side, running out of the pocket. The next day, Smith talked about making sure his “mind-set and thought process, eyes and feet and all that stuff [were] marrying up.” He also mentioned “not seeing things” in some plays. All of this seems to suggest Smith is still trying to adjust to the Redskins' system, and the Redskins are still getting used to him.

 

...One thing Gruden does wonder is whether Smith had enough time with the team’s playmakers this summer to build connections...Rookie running back Derrius Guice, who was expected to be a big part of the offense, tore up his knee in the first preseason game, and Gruden decided he didn’t want to risk an injury to Smith or any other key offensive player with extended action in exhibition games, so he was cautious at the expense of building timing in actual games. 

 

...Accounting for a year lost to a shoulder injury, Smith is in his 14th NFL season. Gruden likes to say there is little the quarterback hasn’t seen. The coach, like others around the team, figure Smith will be able to get passes in the right spots to players who can make big plays. They expect him to get into a rhythm the way he has in the past.

[Morneblade]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sure, no doubt Alex survives the hammer no matter what the outcome -- he's basically here for sure for three seasons based on that contract.

 

I don't think Jay survives 8-8 or less.  I don't think Bruce does either -- that part I'd be happy about it.

 

Having said that, its still early.  What if they win tomorrow and then win against Dallas.  All of a sudden then Jay is good again and Alex is a "winner".  The NFL is fickle.  On one hand I am willing to comment along the way -- so I get people coming on with hard opinions.  But I don't think you can close the book on squat after 4 games in the season. 

 

I agree about Smith being here for 3 years. His contract pretty much demands it. I don't know if Jay survives 8-8 or not. He might. Honestly I missed a lot of the stuff going on between the trade and TC. I don't know ho much to put into the "win now" stuff, as I wasn't hear to really see it first hand. I never thought this was a roster that would go that deep, if at all in the playoffs, so I scoffed at the notion. But maybe the FO thinks it did, and if so 8-8 would not be getting it done

 

As for the team, I'm not optimistic. The rush defense is still very bad, and it's finally starting to show in the stats. And offensively, the team goes through AP, as he goes, so does the offense. When you picked this guy off the street, and you paid 71 million guaranteed to Smith, you'd think it would be through your QB. WR's are a mess. LG wasn't even bothered with, and now look.

[wit33]

18 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

As for the team, I'm not optimistic. The rush defense is still very bad, and it's finally starting to show in the stats. And offensively, the team goes through AP, as he goes, so does the offense. When you picked this guy off the street, and you paid 71 million guaranteed to Smith, you'd think it would be through your QB. WR's are a mess. LG wasn't even bothered with, and now look.

 

I’m lost by this position by some. Alex is and will be paid like an average QB. Which amounts to him accounting for 10% of the cap and being number 16-25 (roughly) ranked QB in pay from year to year. Not arguing how many feel about his level of play, just that he’s not some high paid QB with expectation to be a top 5, 7 or 10 QB. I get the point if idea of him being locked in for 3 years is the issue for some, but his pay is average. 

[Morneblade]

20 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I’m lost by this position by some. Alex is and will be paid like an average QB. Which amounts to him accounting for 10% of the cap and being number 16-25 (roughly) ranked QB in pay from year to year. Not arguing how many feel about his level of play, just that he’s not some high paid QB with expectation to be a top 5, 7 or 10 QB. I get the point if idea of him being locked in for 3 years is the issue for some, but his pay is average. 

 

He has the 8th highest contract among QB's and the 3rd highest guaranteed money.

 

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

 

Player	Team	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Avg.  Guar./Year	% Guar.	Free Agency
Aaron Rodgers	Packers	$134,000,000	$33,500,000	$78,700,000	$19,675,000	58.7%	2024 UFA
Matt Ryan	Falcons	$150,000,000	$30,000,000	$94,500,000	$18,900,000	63.0%	2024 UFA
Kirk Cousins	Vikings	$84,000,000	$28,000,000	$84,000,000	$28,000,000	100.0%	2021 UFA
Jimmy Garoppolo	49ers	$137,500,000	$27,500,000	$48,700,000	$9,740,000	35.4%	2023 UFA
Matt Stafford	Lions	$135,000,000	$27,000,000	$60,500,000	$12,100,000	44.8%	2023 UFA
Derek Carr	Raiders	$125,025,000	$25,005,000	$40,000,000	$8,000,000	32.0%	2023 UFA
Drew Brees	Saints	$50,000,000	$25,000,000	$27,000,000	$13,500,000	54.0%	2020 Void
Andrew Luck	Colts	$122,970,000	$24,594,000	$47,000,000	$9,400,000	38.2%	2022 UFA
Alex Smith	Redskins	$94,000,000	$23,500,000	$55,000,000	$13,750,000	58.5%	2023 UFA
Joe Flacco	Ravens	$66,400,000	$22,133,333	$44,000,000	$14,666,667	66.3%	2022 UFA
Russell Wilson	Seahawks	$87,600,000	$21,900,000	$31,700,000	$7,925,000	36.2%	2020 UFA
Ben Roethlisberger	Steelers	$87,400,000	$21,850,000	$34,250,000	$8,562,500	39.2%	2020 UFA
Eli Manning	Giants	$84,000,000	$21,000,000	$36,500,000	$9,125,000	43.5%	2020 UFA
Philip Rivers	Chargers	$83,250,000	$20,812,500	$37,500,000	$9,375,000	45.0%	2020 UFA
Cam Newton	Panthers	$103,800,000	$20,760,000	$41,000,000	$8,200,000	39.5%	2021 UFA
Tom Brady	Patriots	$41,000,000	$20,500,000	$28,000,000	$14,000,000	68.3%	2020 UFA

[JSSkinz]

On Cooley's breakdown of the offense from the Saints game you can hear the disappointment in his voice when he talks about the QB, RB's, and WR's not being in sync and he doesn't say that it can't change but when you listen to him and his tonality he makes it sound as though he doesn't believe it will, basically as if this team has no chance in any game where they are not effectively running the ball.

 

Most of us know this is where we are right now as a team but I don't want to believe it's going to be that way all year.

 

Cooley knows what he's talking about, he's not perfect but nobody is and for him to feel that way says a lot, IMO.

[wit33]

Here’s the Smith’s pay ranking for next 3 years:

 

2018- 15th (18.4mil)

2019- 22nd (20.4mil)

2020- 11th (21.4mil) 

 

(I used site you used for ranking above, they align with site I linked below)

 

New contracts will push him down the list next year and 2020. He’s being paid like an average QB. The argument for some is being locked in for this year and 2 years after, which is fine.  

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/alex-smith-3337/

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I agree about Smith being here for 3 years. His contract pretty much demands it. I don't know if Jay survives 8-8 or not. He might. Honestly I missed a lot of the stuff going on between the trade and TC. I don't know ho much to put into the "win now" stuff, as I wasn't hear to really see it first hand. I never thought this was a roster that would go that deep, if at all in the playoffs, so I scoffed at the notion. But maybe the FO thinks it did, and if so 8-8 would not be getting it done

 

As for the team, I'm not optimistic. The rush defense is still very bad, and it's finally starting to show in the stats. And offensively, the team goes through AP, as he goes, so does the offense. When you picked this guy off the street, and you paid 71 million guaranteed to Smith, you'd think it would be through your QB. WR's are a mess. LG wasn't even bothered with, and now look.

 

I just saw on twitter you can get out of the third year for Alex if you let him go next Spring, interesting.  But in doing so, you got to swallow the 2nd year in full so that's a lot of dead cap money for a year.

 

As for Jay, I doubt he survives 8-8 if the beat guys covering the team are correct.  Bruce probably doesn't survive it.  They'd likely reboot.

 

As for optimism-pessimism I understand both points of view about this team. As for stopping the run, today should be interesting.  McCaffrey is a nightmare on the edges.  And that's where they seem to be struggling.  Outside zone.  Quick screens outside the numbers.  In nickel especially, Kerrigan/Preston seemed to play really wide, leaving a nice C gap opening if you are quick. 

 

As for WR being a mess, Cooley's film review made me feel better about it.    He was saying guys were open a lot. Not a little but a lot, he emphasize that. I was at the Arizona game and I had a pretty good view of the field and noticed his check down tendencies -- he had some receivers open deeper a bunch of times especially Doctson. I didn't mention it because there was a love fest going on about Alex after that game and we got a couple of people who already think I hate the dude because I like him but don't love him.

 

Two things that struck me about it. Sometimes he got rid of the ball too fast, if he wait another second in situations where he didn't have pressure, he had some guys really breaking free, especially Doctson.  And he's not always looking around.  That was one of Cooley's rap about him watching his KC tape, that he worked too often through one or two reads and then scrambles.  He said that's one thing that we'd miss about his predecessor who will scan the field-reads more.

 

I didn't even have to look hard to find these clippings.  For starters they didn't pass a heck of a lot in the Arizona game, and this was one of his better games.  But I just wanted to take a quick look since that's how it looked to me.  Here are some plays I found quickly that ended up incompletes/short completions.  According to Cooley guys were wide open all over the place against the Saints, I'll look at that one maybe later.

 

And its not as if these plays are that egregious.  And all QBs have plays like that.  But watching him gave me the vibe that he prefers the short conservative throws.  Can you win with that?  Sure, if you got the run game going, you can kill the opponents with the death of a thousand cuts and heck if you throw short so much eventually when you go deep, I bet the shock value of it might make it more effective.  In this game today I'd go deep early.  The Panthers corners aren't good -- heck Eli burned them deep.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

just looked quickly early at the Saints game. this is just me looking at some plays early, I don't have the time and patience to look deep into that game.  I am not in love with our receivers.  But Cooley basically was saying look the idea that Jay can't scheme it up anymore to get guys open is false.  There are receivers getting open.    World beater receiver crew these guys aren't but Cooley is saying they can get guys open.  These plays were incompletions or short passes for a small gain.

 

 

 

 

[Alexa]

On 10/10/2018 at 7:25 PM, Temper11 said:

 

You'll stand by what you said?  What you said was "he doesn't want to throw it to them. He just wants to throw to backs and TE".  I then laid out for you the year in which he is most maligned on this particular point, he threw to his WRs more than the other skill positions - even when the talent at those positions were far inferior. 

 

Whether or not the skins should have traded for him?  I have no skin in that game and no opinion that isn't admittedly biased, but this tired smith criticism from 2014 is just crap when you look beyond the "hater" talking points.

The guy did not throw a td pass to a wr all year long. How does that happen?  

[Alexa]

Good stuff skinsinparadise. It's just not in Smith's DNA to push the ball downfield. Two teams have basically said thanks but no thanks and moved on from the guy. Now we're stuck with him. 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Alexa said:

Good stuff skinsinparadise. It's just not in Smith's DNA to push the ball downfield. Two teams have basically said thanks but no thanks and moved on from the guy. Now we're stuck with him. 

 

You state this as if he didn’t play with Niners for 7-8 years or Chiefs for 5 years. Stop. Alex’s history of playing QB has been average to above average and this level of play can win. It’s also helpful that he agreed to be paid annually at an average to below average salary, when factoring in yearly rankings. 

 

With this said, It’s been an underwhelming start to his tenure with Skins. 

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just saw on twitter you can get out of the third year for Alex if you let him go next Spring, interesting.  But in doing so, you got to swallow the 2nd year in full so that's a lot of dead cap money for a year.

 

As for Jay, I doubt he survives 8-8 if the beat guys covering the team are correct.  Bruce probably doesn't survive it.  They'd likely reboot.

 

As for optimism-pessimism I understand both points of view about this team. As for stopping the run, today should be interesting.  McCaffrey is a nightmare on the edges.  And that's where they seem to be struggling.  Outside zone.  Quick screens outside the numbers.  In nickel especially, Kerrigan/Preston seemed to play really wide, leaving a nice C gap opening if you are quick. 

 

As for WR being a mess, Cooley's film review made me feel better about it.    He was saying guys were open a lot. Not a little but a lot, he emphasize that. I was at the Arizona game and I had a pretty good view of the field and noticed his check down tendencies -- he had some receivers open deeper a bunch of times especially Doctson. I didn't mention it because there was a love fest going on about Alex after that game and we got a couple of people who already think I hate the dude because I like him but don't love him.

 

Two things that struck me about it. Sometimes he got rid of the ball too fast, if he wait another second in situations where he didn't have pressure, he had some guys really breaking free, especially Doctson.  And he's not always looking around.  That was one of Cooley's rap about him watching his KC tape, that he worked too often through one or two reads and then scrambles.  He said that's one thing that we'd miss about his predecessor who will scan the field-reads more.

 

I didn't even have to look hard to find these clippings.  For starters they didn't pass a heck of a lot in the Arizona game, and this was one of his better games.  But I just wanted to take a quick look since that's how it looked to me.  Here are some plays I found quickly that ended up incompletes/short completions.  According to Cooley guys were wide open all over the place against the Saints, I'll look at that one maybe later.

 

And its not as if these plays are that egregious.  And all QBs have plays like that.  But watching him gave me the vibe that he prefers the short conservative throws.  Can you win with that?  Sure, if you got the run game going, you can kill the opponents with the death of a thousand cuts and heck if you throw short so much eventually when you go deep, I bet the shock value of it might make it more effective.  In this game today I'd go deep early.  The Panthers corners aren't good -- heck Eli burned them deep.

 

 

Lots of good stuff there. As I told you in PM's, I was taking some time off from the team after the FO debacle, and I did end up taking several months off from and Redskins related news. So I'm still playing catch up as far as that goes.

 

I'm not a very big fan of the WR corps right now. I think Doctson is a bust, and I'm not very high at all on Richardson. I know you are higher on him than I am. But I do think Jay has the ability to get guys, even if they are just JAG's open. We saw that last year, with a worse complement of WR's.

 

As for the game, It's their strengths against our weaknesses. I think we're in for a very long day.

 

 

[bobafett14]

how are you guys enjoying purgatory?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Lots of good stuff there. As I told you in PM's, I was taking some time off from the team after the FO debacle, and I did end up taking several months off from and Redskins related news. So I'm still playing catch up as far as that goes.

 

I'm not a very big fan of the WR corps right now. I think Doctson is a bust, and I'm not very high at all on Richardson. I know you are higher on him than I am. But I do think Jay has the ability to get guys, even if they are just JAG's open. We saw that last year, with a worse complement of WR's.

 

As for the game, It's their strengths against our weaknesses. I think we're in for a very long day.

 

 

 

I think Richardson is a good #2-3 type just like he was in Seattle.  He has speed and good hands.  He might actually be the best receiver on the team right now.  As for Doctson, just going back at the Arizona game and seeing him get open made me feel better about him -- I liked the pick when we made it, I admit I am concerned-down about him -- but I am not ruling him a bust just yet.  6 Tds in his first season as a WR isn't that bad.  He's done little so far this season but what receiver is having a good year -- even Crowder is on pace for career lows.

 

Maurice Harris had some moments against the Saints maybe its a breakout game for him today.  I just read the Raiders are shopping Amari Cooper.  I'd look at that if the deal is right.