skinsfan834 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 45 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: Role players are a critical element to NFL rosters. When you extend C+/B- players for low cost, you make available the resources you need (draft picks and money) to add the stars. Having Long or Murphy or Breeland on a team-friendly deal that we re-negotiated after year 2 of their rookie contracts would 1) solidify either a starting role or depth and 2) keep costs down and free cap space to get your QB/stud WR/RB/whatever pressing need you may have. Yes, but that implies that a player is willing to renegotiate their contract two years into a four year contract. That doesn't happen... No agent in their right mind is going to advise a client to renegotiate a rookie contract that early on into their career. It is pretty much guaranteeing them to lose out on a boatload of future money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 IF we are not able to sign him, I could see a team above the Skins with more cap space being involved and thus pushing Minkah Fitzpatrick down to 13.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, skinsfan834 said: Yes, but that implies that a player is willing to renegotiate their contract two years into a four year contract. That doesn't happen... No agent in their right mind is going to advise a client to renegotiate a rookie contract that early on into their career. It is pretty much guaranteeing them to lose out on a boatload of future money. Why do players do it for the Eagles? Why did Moses do it when he could have hit FA as a potential LEFT tackle? I think players do it much more often than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchetwound Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, JWB said: IF we are not able to sign him, I could see a team above the Skins with more cap space being involved and thus pushing Minkah Fitzpatrick down to 13.... That would be PERFECT!!! This needs to happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 As of right now we have $29 million in cap space including supposedly Alex Smiths deal. That leaves us room to do one $10 mill per deal, two $8 mill per deals, and prob one $4-5 mill per deal. We DO have space to bring in Richardson, Mathieu, and Zach Brown if we didnt overpay. Would probably cost us about $20 mill on the cap this year. But if Mathieu wants to get paid, I just dont see how he fits here at all when we already have an up and coming safety we like in Nicholson. Better to use that cap space elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 38 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: Moreau might take the next step. He might not. Need to see. Overall point: we're no better than we were last year personnel wise right now. That might change over time. But right now, we're not better. How do you know if Moreau will take the next step if you re-sign Breeland? And yes...right now (2 hours before FA begins, a month and a half before the draft, & almost 6 full months before game #1) the Skins are no better than last year. You might want to change your screen name during the off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: THis was my biggest point in the Bruce Allen thread - love him or hate him or call him the devil, the dude has turned this franchise from a FA focused one to a draft focused one and one that's drafting at least OK. 2014 was the one where Scot was a consultant and its probably his best draft. We'll see how 2017 turns out, but I'm much more in favor of using the draft over free agency particularly because of what we've seen the last two days - mediocre players getting massive deals. BA likes to underspend and get value picks and depend on the draft picks to build the team. I like that way as a major philosophy. This is an interesting point and it makes sense. Many teams, most notably the Steelers and Packers grow through the draft and use their cap space primarily to retain their own players. I think that model largely plays on having a system and consistency to how you operate. IMO we are in a weird middle spot. We aren't keeping our own and we are not big players for other free agents. Maybe it's just the way it seems, but it looks like we are being cheap. I'm not saying we are trying to fail, but the players that return give the company some sort of deal. If we take a bit of time over the past two offseasons we've seen some talented players leave. I'm thinking of Jackson, Garcon, Morris and now Cousins. In all of those situations they have been replaced by more cost effective alternatives. This helps us build cap space, but I'd ask if it helps us be a better team? I've seen items posted about comp picks and that's great, but those do not help us win games in the 2018 season. As a fan I think it's fair to say this season is an opportunity to win. Management's job is to do what they can to win while not mortgaging the future. I understand that opens up a grey area in that people can debate what is 'mortgaging the future', but overall I want the team I root for showing me they are trying to win for the upcoming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan834 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: Why do players do it for the Eagles? Why did Moses do it when he could have hit FA as a potential LEFT tackle? I think players do it much more often than you think. Moses was going into the fourth and final year of his contract and was offered a salary that made him the second highest paid right tackle in the NFL. Your original post discussed extending role players two years into their rookie deals for 'team-friendly' or 'low cost' deals. Wouldn't necessarily call a five year, $42.5 million contract 'low cost.' I'm all for keeping our own, but by dedicating to build through the draft, you are constantly looking to find a better, younger player of a guy who might be nearing the end of his contract. I would have liked to see one of the four in question resigned, but am not going to cry over losing any of them -- especially for the contracts that they are likely to or have received thus far in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Maybe we should wait until free agency and the draft has been completed before we start grading our overall team talent compared to last years team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningBuggs Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 40 minutes ago, hatchetwound said: You don't need to mansplain anything to me. Getting something for a player you are going to cut anyway is a GOOD thing. I don't know how anyone can possibly spin that fact any other way. FYI, that trade netted the Skins a 2013 5th round pick which they used on Brandon Jenkins. So that deal worked out swimmingly for the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 IMHO HB is going to Jets to play for his old coach who has more money than players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG3fan Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I would agree that getting Paul Richardson should help but Alex Smith has always been more of a passer to TE's. I'm just curious how the chemistry will be with Richardson and Smith as well as the other players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, DC9 said: JP said money was the hold-up. He might be thinking if the juice is worth the squeeze. Just my guess, anyway. Money, plus I think we are holding to see who gets cut today. Whether it be DRC or anyone else, we need to make a couple of 'big' moves today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said: How do you know if Moreau will take the next step if you re-sign Breeland? And yes...right now (2 hours before FA begins, a month and a half before the draft, & almost 6 full months before game #1) the Skins are no better than last year. You might want to change your screen name during the off season. I get where VOR is coming from. This past season the product on the field wasn't good. It's sort of compounded because with this ownership it seems the only way we make the playoffs is when our division is bad, so we get in by default then get an early exit. Adding to that many went into this off season hoping Kirk would stay. That's not happening. The saving grace of not having Kirk's massive contract would be cap space to acquire additional talent. I completely understand that free agency hasn't even started let alone has concluded, but based on the early signings we are losing some good pieces with their replacements TBD. Anyway I feel this is a part of the process, but like all things how long do you do the same things while enduring the same sub-standard results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortisBetts Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I would love to know what the actual plan here is....so far all the Redskins have done is lose just about every free agent. I am having a hard time understanding anything they are doing....or not doing that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 minute ago, sjinhan said: IMHO HB is going to Jets to play for his old coach who has more money than players... His other one is at the Giants too. If we don't, at the least, inquire hard it's disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Unbias said: This is an interesting point and it makes sense. Many teams, most notably the Steelers and Packers grow through the draft and use their cap space primarily to retain their own players. I think that model largely plays on having a system and consistency to how you operate. IMO we are in a weird middle spot. We aren't keeping our own and we are not big players for other free agents. Maybe it's just the way it seems, but it looks like we are being cheap. I'm not saying we are trying to fail, but the players that return give the company some sort of deal. If we take a bit of time over the past two offseasons we've seen some talented players leave. I'm thinking of Jackson, Garcon, Morris and now Cousins. In all of those situations they have been replaced by more cost effective alternatives. This helps us build cap space, but I'd ask if it helps us be a better team? I've seen items posted about comp picks and that's great, but those do not help us win games in the 2018 season. As a fan I think it's fair to say this season is an opportunity to win. Management's job is to do what they can to win while not mortgaging the future. I understand that opens up a grey area in that people can debate what is 'mortgaging the future', but overall I want the team I root for showing me they are trying to win for the upcoming season. Those are two good examples, but the Eagles (particularly of the early 2000s) are another good one. I wouldn't call it cost effective or not keeping our own. I think we're setting values on players and keeping them at a certain cost. We kept Trent, Kerrigan, Moses, Reed, Thompson, etc. Those are all players that we really liked. Others like Baker and Jackson and Garcon were getting older (approaching or having passed 30) and thus (a) more likely to be injured and (b) more likely to suffer from dropoff in production. The comp picks is a separate conversation though. I like the idea of getting comp picks, but thats not the only way to get more picks. We're talking about the 2014 draft and how good it was, lets not forget that we had traded our first rounder in that draft for RG3 so we were already shorthanded. But we traded down and picked up (I think) 10 guys in that draft. Aside from that, there are also players like Mo Harris and Anthony Lanier and Deshazier Everett and Quinton Dunbar who were UDFAs and have been performing for us. So comp picks are nice and more picks is a better philosophy but the general strategy is of getting younger. If we sign Honey Badger and lose a comp pick for it but gain a playmaker, so what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 This would ease my mind considerably https://twitter.com/Mason_Foster/status/973983737166876672 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, PortisBetts said: I would love to know what the actual plan here is....so far all the Redskins have done is lose just about every free agent. I am having a hard time understanding anything they are doing....or not doing that is. It's a win/win situation. The guys we are losing helped contribute to our mediocrity so who cares...plus, we might suck even more landing a higher pick, hopefully drafting guys who can actually make an impact. /IAINTMAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: I wouldn't call it cost effective or not keeping our own. I think we're setting values on players and keeping them at a certain cost. That's pretty much the same thing and there's nothing wrong with it, as long as the moves you make or don't make work out. That's what it boils down to. Merely placing values on players means jack if you aren't placing the proper value on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Bang said: This is all true,, they may have reached out. I can see that approach in some ways, but it doesn't look to me like Bruce knows how or when to stop the carousel. Being too cheap can be costly. It's amazing the almost complete shift in the Redskins organization. From the early days of the Snyder era with Cerrato and the free spending and huge contracts, to the days of Snyder and Allen where the Redskins seem to be one of the most frugal teams in the league. The shift is remarkable. The only common denominator in both instances is the losing (and Snyder). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, DC9 said: This would ease my mind considerably https://twitter.com/Mason_Foster/status/973983737166876672 He won't command as much money as he thinks, and I'm not sure where he got the idea he's going to get paid since volume tacklers with no big sack or int number rarely do. I still think there's a good chance he resigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: That's pretty much the same thing and there's nothing wrong with it, as long as the moves you make or don't make work out. That's what it boils down to. Merely placing values on players means jack if you aren't placing the proper value on them. Maybe, but its a comparison to keeping your players at all costs or never signing your own. I'm sure if there's a disagreement it will look like the team is cheap, or if we sign a player that doesn't work out, it'll look like we overpaid (not a re-signing but McClain). Zach Brown is an example though. We've set a value for him that we don't want to go over because he is limited and thus doesn't deserve to be paid like the top LB. It could lead to him leaving (ala us being cheap) but its this type of discipline that leads to things like having less wasted dead money due to cuts early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 So the Saints are out of the slot corner market, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, PortisBetts said: I would love to know what the actual plan here is....so far all the Redskins have done is lose just about every free agent. I am having a hard time understanding anything they are doing....or not doing that is. Maintaining cap space I guess. In this 'everyone's a GM' era people seem to like it more than having, you know, good players. It's the worst. Meanwhile we act like the Eagles are practically cheating somehow by actually using their space. The NFL cap increases every year and there's a ton of flexibility. Just cutting an aging Norman in 2020 would give us $12.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.