Unbias

I'm on the fence on how we should grow going forward. We have been freeing up a lot of cap space. We currently sit just over $60M, but there are other moves that can be made, specifically trading Trent, Kerrigan or maybe Dunbar. I'm not wanting to discuss each player, but more the overall strategy. Should we go into a mode where the sole focus is getting future assets (draft picks) and signing younger players? Would it better if Rivera completely cleans house and start new with a combination of picks and cap space OR should he go into free agency, grab some vets that can help immediately and look to compete right out the gates? I'm sort of leaning towards a full rebuild. Have a season of lowered expectations. Maybe make the entire season about developing our young QB. After this year we'll have a good idea what we can expect from Haskins and can ideally use those future assets to surround him with talent or go a different direction if needed.

He was a first rounder (29th overall) and is still young and talented. You think a 5th is going to be good enough to get it done? I'm ready for a boring, cheap TE. Give me a blocker who can run some routes, but their job is fairly defined.

I think a couple years ago I wanted him to just retire. I'd find myself rooting for him in the jersey hoping he doesn't get hurt, knowing that he'll probably get hurt. Watching him come back was a great story, but after a while I knew the story always had a bad ending. Sadly, I'm worried how things will look in 10-15 years. The damage he's sustained could put him at risk of being the next Junior Seau. It's just sad. Anyway, thanking Jordan for his effort and performances. That 2015 season was awesome. He was uncoverable and I think really helped Kirk develop. He'll be missed, but it got to a point where I was cringing every time he took a hit. That's no way to watch players you are rooting for.

Without Allen at the table what's the hold up? I mean Dunbar is a young, good player. Why not negotiate now where he's not a FA, so there's some leverage in extending him? Anyway, it will be interesting how Rivera handles this. We all assume it would be better because Allen is gone, but we can't forget how things broke down between Rivera and Norman in Carolina. They pulled the franchise tag after free agency starts, which is typically a dirty move. Most teams spent their cash, so Norman had less suitors. Granted, in that situation there was one team left that was willing to overpay for his services...

I'm happy he's gone, but I also remember how excited we all were when we signed him. He's regressed every year. Hopefully we learn older corners typically don't do well. If we follow this up with sighing a 30 year old to a 4 year deal we'll be in facepalm town.

So he'll be 36, probably need more than $5M/season to play and he's been injured both of the last two seasons. For TE there are a lot of better options out there. Personally I like the idea of drafting someone in the 4th round or later and maybe picking up someone that can give you a few quality starts.

The underlying problem with the premise is that we the fans think the product is failing us while the owner has been getting very wealthy off the same product. All your suggestions involve Dan making less money. I'd ask, if he hasn't made any sacrafices and been rewarded why would be do so now? Is there a business case for him to forgo profits today for more in the future?

Okay. That's good to know. I'm not too excited about the 2018 draft. Like the talent, but still waiting to see if it will translate to on field production. Guys like Guice have always bugged me because I'm so excited to see them on the field and with every injury I wonder what kind of player is left. I think Payne is a complete hit, but just for reference here's how the rest of the first round went: 1 14 NOR Marcus Davenport DE 22 2019 0 0 1 7 7 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 10.5 Texas-San Antonio College Stats 1 15 OAK Kolton Miller T 22 2019 0 0 2 15 15 32 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 UCLA College Stats 1 16 BUF Tremaine Edmunds ILB 20 2019 0 0 2 21 21 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 146 3 3.5 Virginia Tech College Stats 1 17 LAC Derwin James S 22 2019 1 1 1 13 13 21 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 98 3 3.5 Florida St. College Stats 1 18 GNB Jaire Alexander CB 21 2019 0 0 2 12 12 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 111 3 0.5 Louisville College Stats 1 19 DAL Leighton Vander Esch OLB 22 2019 0 1 2 16 16 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 145 2 0.5 Boise St. College Stats 1 20 DET Frank Ragnow C 22 2019 0 0 2 14 14 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Arkansas College Stats 1 21 CIN Billy Price C 23 2019 0 0 1 8 8 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 1 22 TEN Rashaan Evans ILB 22 2019 0 0 1 14 14 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 102 2.5 Alabama College Stats 1 23 NWE Isaiah Wynn T 21 2019 0 0 0 4 4 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Georgia College Stats 1 24 CAR D.J. Moore WR 21 2019 0 0 2 17 17 31 0 0 0 0 0 19 212 0 142 1963 6 1 Maryland College Stats 1 25 BAL Hayden Hurst TE 25 2019 0 0 0 6 6 28 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 43 512 3 South Carolina College Stats 1 26 ATL Calvin Ridley WR 23 2019 0 0 1 14 14 29 0 0 0 0 0 8 61 0 127 1687 17 Alabama College Stats 1 27 SEA Rashaad Penny RB 22 2019 0 0 0 7 7 24 0 0 0 0 0 150 789 5 17 158 1 San Diego St. College Stats 1 28 PIT Terrell Edmunds S 21 2019 0 0 2 12 12 32 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 126 1 1.0 Virginia Tech College Stats 1 29 JAX Taven Bryan DT 22 2019 0 0 1 6 6 32 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 31 3.0 Florida College Stats 1 30 MIN Mike Hughes CB 21 2019 0 0 0 4 4 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 56 2 Central Florida College Stats 1 31 NWE Sony Michel RB 23 2019 0 0 2 12 12 29 0 0 0 0 0 456 1843 13 19 144 0 Georgia College Stats 1 32 BAL Lamar Jackson QB 21 2019 1 1 1 34 34 31 364 571 4328 42 9 323 1901 12 0 0 0 Louisville College There's players that I'd consider better and players I'd consider worse. Obviously seeing Jackson at 32 is a bit annoying, but I'm sure almost all the other 31 teams that drafted before are saying that.

Wait a second, I just thought of something. Are we getting all excited about this draft class, but also forgetting we fired a lot of the people that helped bring that draft class too us? Seriously, we have many of the same scouts, but they interact with the coaches and front office. A lot of that has been turned over.

What opponent NFCE QB doesn't have a winning record against us over the past 15-20 years? To focus on Eli he is a HOFer, so I'm good with it. I mean, to start that many games, actually play better in the playoffs and to have won 2 Superbowls? That's a pretty insane resume. Compare his regular and post season stats with Aikmen while knowing Troy played on a dynasty. Eli did not.

If Haskins turns out, then we could have hit the jackpot with him, Sweat, Terry and Holcomb.

I agree here, but we've spent a first round selection along the DL the past 3 years (Sweat was technically the 2nd pick last year, but still a first round). I'd say that specific group probably lost the trench battle with Dallas and Philly. I'm 100% behind drafting Young, but eventually you get to a point where rookie contracts are coming up and you aren't winning the trench war despite allocating a lot of resources in that direction.

I wasn't so much saying that the Redskins have failed at the draft. They have a lot of players who are worth their respective contracts and should probably be extended, but we don't have anyone like Bosa, Kittle, Armstead, Mahomes, Jones or Hill. Those guys are giving you All-pro caliber performances. They allow teams to reallocate cap space to other places knowing they have a all-pro caliber player at certain key spots. Our hits are good. Definitely above average and like I said worth of keeping around. I'd actually argue that Terry, especially in his first year, is one of those guys that create multiples of player value for the amount he's being paid. I don't see that anywhere else on this team. Let's look within our division: Giants - Barkley does. Jones looked like he does for stretches. They also went a while being horrible at drafting, so it explains where they are. Eagles - Sanders did for stretches this past year. Goedert looks like he's that guy as well. Wentz obviously was a big part when they won in 17. I'd add Jalen Mills was also important in their SB run and he's was a 7th rounder who started his first year. I'd add in the 2 year stretch were they got Ertz/Johnson/Cox. They have all been all pro material while they were earning their 2nd contracts. Cowboys - I'll say maybe Vander Esch? After that you'd have to go back to Elliot (on his rookie deal), Byron Jones and of course Dak. With all those contracts coming up it's why people think their window has closed. Going back further there was a 2 year period where they drafted Martin/Frederick/Lawrence. Those 3 created a lot of value beyond their rookie contracts. To bring it all back to the Redkins. I'd say some of the guys who have really created value beyond their deals. Ionnidis (5th rounder), Scherff (3 Probowls) and Terry (mentioned) come to mind. Payne and Allen are both good, but neither has made the probowl, right? They are performing well enough to get another contract, but not creating value beyond where they were drafted. Before that the last time we had guys that created that large incremental value would have been Reed (3rd), Cousins (3rd) and before that Kerrigan/Trent? There's a lot of intangibles going on when I talk 'value created beyond their rookie contract' so maybe I'll lose some people. I want to be clear, I like a lot of these players. There's no way I'm saying Payne or Allen were not worth being selected. Love both of them. I'm just saying the teams that end up being in the Superbowl have some of their draft picks play well beyond their rookie contract and go 2-3 seasons being grossly underpaid. We have done that recently and IMHO have at least one guy on his rookie contract that fits that bill (Terry), but we haven't done it enough to be a Superbowl contender.

Yep. We are in the unique position that we see AP as a value creating piece because our 2nd rounder can't stay healthy. Even when we do something right it's because we also are doing something wrong... Here's me reacting to the next Guice knee injury:

This is a great thread and a big thank you to @KDawg for putting this together. I look at a great edge rusher no different than a great corner. Individually they can consistently win their matchup, but it's not hard for the opposition to game plan away from that player. Can't do that with something like a QB, who touches the football on almost every offensive play. The cap cost of each pass rusher is important, but that goes for all positions. Look at the top priced WRs, QBs, RBs, LBs, DTs, CBs, Safeties, and TEs. It's not like having a top paid player at any given position helps you win a Superbowl. Some can argue that without a certain level of play from the QB position you can't make the playoffs, but there are arguments for and against that. I think the most important part of building a winner is getting the most out of your rookie/value contracts. Let's focus on both the Superbowl teams: SF - Would they be where they are without Nick Bosa, Arik Armstead, Deebo Samuel, DeForest Buckner, Fred Warner, George Kittle and Mike McGlinchey on their rookie deals? Those guys combined have a cap hit of ~$28.2M. That's an extremely large amount of value created which allow them to pay guys like Jimmy G, Sherman, Ford, Staley, etc... KC - Would they be where they are without Patrick Mahomes, Tyreek Hill, Chris Jones, Reggie Ragland, Kendall Fuller, Juan Thornhill, Mecole Hardman and Damien Williams on their rookie deals? That's a crazy amount of value they are getting for ~$15.4M of cap space that allow them to give large contracts to Watkins, Clark, Kelce, Mathieu, Fisher, Schwartz, etc... So let's do the cap/value exercise for Washington. Rookie deals creating value = Payne ($3.3M), Allen ($3.2M), McLaurin ($0.8M), Brandon Scherff ($12.5M) - IRed, Guice ($1M) - IRed, Moreau ($0.9M) - IRed = ~$21.7M Where did we allocate that rookie contract 'savings' = Smith - IRed, Kerrigan - IRed, Reed - IRed, Richardson - IRed, Norman, Collins and Moses. The big problem is that we aren't getting enough from our guys on rookie deals. Sure we aren't doing a good job with the savings we create, but overall if you compare our rookie contract value compared to SF or KC and there's a massive gap difference. Their guys are paving the way for a Superbowl while ours either want out (Scherff) or keep getting hurt (Guice).