Latest FA Disappointment: Josh Norman

[Redd]

Norman and I would say Fuller are bright spots on our secondary imo.

[Veryoldschool]

Is Norman playing hurt?  I dunno but it hurts to watch him.  I don't what the hell he was doing on that 75 yard TD pass today.

 

On that 75 yard TD pass,  Norman is 20-30 yards down the field and looking back at the QB instead of the receiver that is opening up a 10-yard gap on him.  I don't know if Norman is looking back because he's thinking he's going have to provide run support or what but he totally lost the receiver he had single coverage on, I don't know what to think.  Every guy is going to get beat once in a while but Norman looking back at the QB while his man is opening up an impossible gap just looks to like horrible technique to an uninitiated guy like me.

[NoCalMike]

For me it is hard to fall too hard on the secondary when there is zero pass rush.  On the flea flicker play, Swearinger bites on the run fake and you see Norman signaling to him to go deep for coverage but it's too late. 

 

Hard for coverage guys when a QB can sit back and have all day to throw the ball. 

[BraveWarrior]

I like having him on the team. He's never going to be Deion Sanders circa 1991, but he's a solid DB who many QBs don't want to challenge. 

[ncr2h]

I'm surprised at the positivity.  He has been awful this year.

 

As of 11/18, QBs had a 91.9 passer rating when throwing at Norman.  That's already bad.  But he has gotten torched multiple times since then.  It would not surprise me if QBs have a passer rating of 100+ against him this season.

 

It's hard to understand why our team has been reluctant to commit 12-15% of the cap to Cousins, when a guy like Norman is making ~10% of the cap and could probably be replaced for Dunbar or Fuller with little to no dropoff...and perhaps an improvement, to be honest.

[ncr2h]

Just to summarize his game today:

 

Breeland got targeted 4 times for 30 yards and a pick 6

Dunbar got targeted 6 times for 55 yards (note: most of that yardage came on 2 great catches by Allen - a one-handed leaping catch, and then a back shoulder throw against tight coverage)

Fuller targeted 1 time for 7 yards

Norman got targeted 5 times for 145 yards, plus a facemask penalty and a TD

 

If opposing QBs aren't targeting Norman at this point, the question is...why the heck not?

[abdcskins]

I thought he has been mediocre for a while now but was afraid to say anything.  He started out his career here amazing but has slowly dwindled.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I don't think Norman has been a disappointment... the team has. Norman is on the team, er.. well, I guess you're right then?

 

 

EDIT: Facts don't like, 91 passer rating? 5 times for 200 yards? Yikes. Cut him.

[DJD2]

Definitely some head scratching plays lately, but a real stretch to say he is a FA disappointment. 

[NoCalMike]

What people need to realize too is that in the modern NFL, with the way the rules have been changed so blatantly to help the offense score more, the classic cover-corner is almost obsolete.  When a franchise goes out and signs a cornerback they better also be doing something to make sure the pass rush is there to force early throws and mis-timed throws.  Most defenses play some variation of zone defense, not on every single play, but most snaps.  When you play zone defense it is hard to "cover the field of play" for longer than the  4 seconds or so the the QB has to normally get the ball out of his hands.

 

Earlier in the season the pass rush was much more effective, then once injuries turned that unit back into the ineffective unit they used to be, that is when the secondary started giving up more plays.

[Going Commando]

Norman's a beast.  He's the best player on the defense by a country mile and he was the lone bright spot on the unit last year.  He's playing hurt and the defense has collapsed.  Good players play bad when the season falls apart.  Then they and their unit get healthy the next year and start fresh and magically they're good again.

 

**** like this thread is evidence of how little NFL fans know about the game they watch.  It's not just us, it's every fan base.  But we should do better.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think he's still mostly fine. I think it's tough to judge anyone based on the mess the season is becoming.

 

I will say this: Corners have a tendency to fall fast when they decline. It doesn't take much to suddenly be completely overmatched with Antonio Brown or Julio Jones, but they think they are still the same athlete they've always been.

[TheGreek1973]

Norman has been bad after the injury to his ribs.  I still think he is not 100%, you can see he is not tackling with the ferocity we have seen in the past.  He is the least of our problems 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

While I see a lot of folks in here taking shots that anyone who thinks Josh has played poorly doesn't know football, I'd venture a guess that those who are actually paid to analyze football are more in agreement with the OP than you think.  Yes, it's totally possible that injury is playing a role in his demise.  I don't doubt that as it does seems his play has fallen off a cliff since his injury, and the subsequent injuries to the middle of the D line.  I see a lot of talk about him "getting beat once in a game" and everyone saying he sucks.  He's getting beat more than once a game of late and by less than stellar receivers.  15M dollar corners shouldn't show up on the other side of highlights as often as he has this year.  I have no doubts that if we actually had some push in the middle, the secondary as a whole would look much better than it does.  But that doesn't change the fact that Josh isn't having a good season in his own right. 

[Peregrine]

I doubt he is worth the money we paid him, and there have been some disappointments, but lets be honest, Norman has also produced about 90% of our fumbles.

[wit33]

He’s been on the wrong end of a few bad plays; he’s the last guy I worry about moving forward (2-3 year window). 

 

The thread title unfortunately is attempting to sound off alarms, but sure, it appears he’s not having a great year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hunter_R]

Norman doesn't sound too happy today.

 

Quote

“I came here to win a championship,” the former all-pro corner said shortly after the Redskins’ 30-13 loss to the Los Angeles Chargers officially eliminated them from playoff contention for a second straight season. “If we’re not doing that, what are we doing? Why are we here?

“Because I’m not going to be a part of something that’s not going to go forward and win a championship,” Norman said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/12/11/its-just-devastating-josh-norman-vents-about-chargers-loss-his-role-in-redskins-defense/?utm_term=.02e6bbd7a43e

 

Not sure his actions match his words. He's getting paid a lot of money to be on a team no-one but die-hards thought had a chance at winning a title.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Hunter_R said:

Norman doesn't sound too happy today.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/12/11/its-just-devastating-josh-norman-vents-about-chargers-loss-his-role-in-redskins-defense/?utm_term=.02e6bbd7a43e

 

No offense but, who comes here to win championships?   Sounds nice and all, but nobody comes here to win championships. 

 

He must have said he wasn't pointing any fingers over a dozen times, but indeed was pointing his finger at the DC for not traveling.  Which rings sort of hollow when you get beat by lesser guys than the other teams #1.

[WelshSkinsFan]

Sorry but the whole reason he is here is because he wanted the fattest contract ever given to a DB and the Panthers said no thanks.  I think he is a great player and I want him here next year but he has not played well of late and trying to pin it on other people is BS.  I only give one free pass for yesterday and that goes to Kerrigan because he just never stops competing.

[Silvernon]

Definitely cost the team 14 points yesterday with mental lapses/getting lost watching the QB. He deserves to be called out at this point considering he is elite. 

[Wildbunny]

18 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

For me it is hard to fall too hard on the secondary when there is zero pass rush.  On the flea flicker play, Swearinger bites on the run fake and you see Norman signaling to him to go deep for coverage but it's too late. 

 

Hard for coverage guys when a QB can sit back and have all day to throw the ball. 

As a whole I think Swearinger is often out of position and haven't been bringing the support he should at FS.

More than Norma, he's the one I think is disappointing.

 

4 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Earlier in the season the pass rush was much more effective, then once injuries turned that unit back into the ineffective unit they used to be, that is when the secondary started giving up more plays.

And the only game lately where we had some kind of pass rusher was against that crappy Seahawks OL.

 

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

No offense but, who comes here to win championships?   Sounds nice and all, but nobody comes here to win championships.

 

That's probably what Bruce, Dan, Scot and Jay sold him when he comed...

Lots of things have happened since then.

[Tailgates of Hell]

He's had a couple bad games (Minnesota, yesterday come to mind)... but in the two years he has been with the team I think he's been one of the best players we've had. 

[NoCalMike]

Yeah it goes to show how much of a difference Monte Nicholson has made in the secondary. Swearinger looked a lot better playing his proper position.

 

That is at least a positive thing that two of our rookies made such a big impact, losing them to injury made it very apparent.

[justice98]

I'd much rather have him than not have him, but he was probably overrated all along.  Six years, one pro-bowl/All-Pro year that turned him into a perceived elite corner.  One.  And he turns 30 on Friday.  Revis was basically cooked at 31.

 

Was billed as Patrick Peterson/Xavier Rhodes/Richard Sherman, that was a set it and forget it guy.  That could shut down whomever or whatever side of the field he was on. Solid #1, but below the top guys.

[elkabong82]

20 hours ago, ncr2h said:

I'm surprised at the positivity.  He has been awful this year.

 

As of 11/18, QBs had a 91.9 passer rating when throwing at Norman.  That's already bad.  But he has gotten torched multiple times since then.  It would not surprise me if QBs have a passer rating of 100+ against him this season.

 

It's hard to understand why our team has been reluctant to commit 12-15% of the cap to Cousins, when a guy like Norman is making ~10% of the cap and could probably be replaced for Dunbar or Fuller with little to no dropoff...and perhaps an improvement, to be honest.

 

Small number of targets inflates passer rating. 

 

If a CB is so good that he isn't targeted often, then who cares if he gives up 2 catches on 3 targets? What's important is number of catches allowed. As of 11/18 Norman was 6th in the NFL in coverage snaps per reception. He gave up 13 catches on 24 targets and had a PFF grade of 81.3, and this is with dealing with the rib injury and having inconsistent safety play behind him (which accounted for some of the yardage given up yesterday). 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-peterson-amukamara-lead-nfl-in-receptions-allowed-per-snap-in-coverage

 

I definitely would NOT say he's been awful this year. He hasn't been quite as good as in years past, though that is difficult to maintain such an elite standing at the CB position, but aside before the 2 recent games he's been solid this year. Notice how as our pressure on QBs has dropped as the season has gone on that secondary has fell off too. 

 

This thread is proof why we Skins fans may not deserve nice things. Any time this team struggles fans come out the wood work to crap on every single player and foolishly proclaim they need to released. First Reed now Norman. Anyone saying either needs to be released is overreacting to the season and not using their brain cells properly. Both are elite and you don't let that leave.This season doesn't change that.