The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Showing my age with this movie reference but Chris Russell (who didn't fully paint this picture but lead me to this conclusion) got me thinking like this some.   Redskins Park -- not as wild as this but has a bit of a fraternity atmosphere with Bruce as the cool-lead character in the eyes of Dan?    I don't know if Russell is right but he got me thinking about what happens there in a totally different way than I did before today.

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

55 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I agree. Jay is on the inside. As time passes, he and Bruce appear to be pissing in the same pot more than initially envisaged. I think they are closer associated than many want to accept.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Jay isn’t chummy with Bruce and Dan. The problem is that it’s a requirement for survival in Ashburn.  No coach or executive for that matter stands a chance here if they don’t play the game.  That’s not being dramatic, that’s the cold hard truth.

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Showing my age with this movie reference but Chris Russell (who didn't fully paint this picture but lead me to this conclusion) got me thinking like this some.   Redskins Park -- not as wild as this but has a bit of a fraternity atmosphere with Bruce as the cool-lead character in the eyes of Dan?    I don't know if Russell is right but he got me thinking about what happens there in a totally different way than I did before today.

 

Which is why bringing in Scot was a nightmare waiting fo happen.

[RandyHolt]

Bruce is probably neck deep in trying to get a stadium deal done. Can't fire him now. Deals like that are right up his alley, schmoozing local politicians non football decisions blah blah... And Dan is tied to him to get the deal done in part because he seems inept at those things.  He would also prefer to be out of the public limelight so folks are going to be less likely to label him as meddling, for when he and Bruce play head coach.

[Garcon More Wine]

52 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Bruce is probably neck deep in trying to get a stadium deal done. Can't fire him now. Deals like that are right up his alley, schmoozing local politicians non football decisions blah blah... And Dan is tied to him to get the deal done in part because he seems inept at those things.  He would also prefer to be out of the public limelight so folks are going to be less likely to label him as meddling, for when he and Bruce play head coach.

 

so why doesnt dan just have him do that and find a GM to run the football side?  wouldnt bruce be MORE effective if he was focused on just the stadium instead of trying to build and manage a roster?  makes no sense.

[KillBill26]

13 minutes ago, Garcon More Wine said:

 

so why doesnt dan just have him do that and find a GM to run the football side?  wouldnt bruce be MORE effective if he was focused on just the stadium instead of trying to build and manage a roster?  makes no sense.

It might be that Bruce wants to oversee everything, and Danny boy feels he is forced to give him the keys to everything so he doesn't jeopardize the new stadium, which is Danny boys priority.  Or maybe Bruce has been able to convince Danny that the few bringht spots of this team, like young def line, were due to Bruce and all the mistakes are due to bad luck or attributed to others.  Or that the fanbase is just a bunch of irrational haters.  Who knows.  Or maybe we all get lucky and bruce is reassigned, or maybe even fired, within the next 48 hours.

[Est.1974]

8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Jay isn’t chummy with Bruce and Dan. The problem is that it’s a requirement for survival in Ashburn.  No coach or executive for that matter stands a chance here if they don’t play the game.  That’s not being dramatic, that’s the cold hard truth.

 

I don't disagree.

 

I guess my feeling is that if someone is willing to 'play the game' for a prolonged period of time, in this case say 5 years, by definition/default they make themselves part of the core issue.

 

You can see that exist in any working environment. People who sell out and 'play the game' are rarely respected, in my experience, by anyone other than those who's arses they are kissing.

[FrFan]

" Redskins: The big moves this week came when the Redskins jettisoned four marketing executives, decisions that at least involved team president Bruce Allen. If he was in trouble, hard to imagine owner Dan Snyder would have allowed him to make those calls. With Allen likely staying, the thought process is that Jay Gruden would stay as well. And while assistants has been fearful for a few weeks that jobs could be lost, Gruden appears on safe footing -- his team was rolling until the injuries and he's on his fourth QB. But don't be surprised if some change is made, particularly on defense. Coordinator Greg Manusky, the object of player frustration, is at risk here. "

Link

 

[SkinsFTW]

9 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Which is why bringing in Scot was a nightmare waiting fo happen.

 

And the team claiming, then the entire media moronically believing, that Scot was fired for drinking at their kegger.

 

Hilarious.

 

Yet SIP still follows and biographies their every word as if it's not just more team spin garbage set out for the lemmings who wants to believe there's a chance that people like me are completely wrong. Somehow this time it's not Dan, yeah ok buddy.

 

It's all Dan Snyder or else the Sub 40% Bruce would've never even been hired to prove that sub 40% is in fact quite accurate for an entire wasted decade of laughter.

[markmills67]

Please, please, please let this be Bruce Allen's last game as the GM(😂😂😂😂😂) of my beloved Washington Redskins. 

 

HTTR 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

And the team claiming, then the entire media moronically believing, that Scot was fired for drinking at their kegger.

 

Hilarious.

 

Yet SIP still follows and biographies their every word as if it's not just more team spin garbage set out for the lemmings who wants to believe there's a chance that people like me are completely wrong. Somehow this time it's not Dan, yeah ok buddy.

 

 

What are you talking about the Scot story?  If that's what you mean. I've told both stories the WP and the 106.7 version.  You can believe whatever the heck you want.  The reason why I believe the 106.7 version is they are the ones who broke the story and they hate the FO and like Scot so I doubt they'd just spin a false story to make him look bad just because....

 

WP version:  Bruce was jealous of Scot, the two kept butting heads, Bruce said he'd fire Scot eventually because of drinking and then he did.

 

106.7 version:  The WP version of the story is true but that was the end of the story but isn't the main plot.  Lots of drinking and antics from Scot, there is something to the Russini story with Scot and his wife.  Dan wanted Scot gone soon after.  Bruce didn't want to cut the cord just yet.  Then Scot-Bruce discord.  Scot cut loose. 

 

Both talked about lots of drinking that went on there by others.  Russell really doubled down on that point hard yesterday.

 

As for the WP implying Dan is insulated and surprised by the all the distaste for Bruce and insulated from fans.  I was just saying that about 2 days ago -- saying you got to bring signs to the stadium or communicate directly to Redskins Park like what was done to remove Vinny otherwise he would be unlikely to know because according to some he has no email, doesn't go on social media or listen to talk radio.  I said there was one reporter who dissented on that point.

 

Just about everything I am hearing that I throw out here is negative about Dan and Bruce.  The FO defenders have probably argued more with me than anyone else.  So what am I spewing that is team spin garbage?  If I am a FO defender I am sure that would get a laugh from the 5-6 FO defenders who probably hate me. 😎  

 

The only I can think of is my point that Bruce is a douche and does his own crap on his own and is far from just a Dan Snyder stooge.  And sorry if that's it, yeah I've heard too much to believe otherwise.  If anyone wants to believe Bruce is a good dude (the same guy called the Prince of Darnkess in Tampa) just brought into the gutter by Dan -- have at it -- I am just listening to people and telling you what I heard and what my perceptions of it are -- you can believe whatever floats your boat.

 

Edit:  I just reread your post.  Ok its the 100% Dan stuff.  Have it and enjoy if that's what you want to be believe.   Look I've said Dan is the worst owner in the league and is a douche in his own right.  As I've said I do think he doesn't interfere as much.  But so what -- he still brings the rotten culture over there, hires rotten people.  Is still as impatient as he ever was.  Drinks apparently a lot too with his buddy Bruce.  But have seen nothing that indicates that Bruce isn't a douche in his own right.

 

I explained my point with nuance saying I suspect Dan DOES interfere SOMETIMES.  And he's the lead dance with the bad culture.  And said more than that.  But if you want to believe its ALL Dan and Bruce is an innocent dupe just carrying out his orders -- enjoy the thought.  It doesn't bother me.  Why should you care that I see it slightly different.  My view doesn't defend Dan on squat so having an issue with my take is about defending Bruce's culpability in all of this -- and I see him as a problem, a big problem.  But if your point is he's not the biggest problem in the grand scheme of this, I agree, its the owner.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

The more I think about it, the more I realize firing Bruce does nothing. We still have an idiot up top who gets to interview and look for his next bestest drinking bud

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

The more I think about it, the more I realize firing Bruce does nothing. We still have an idiot up top who gets to interview and look for his next bestest drinking bud

 

That's possible and probably even likely but I'd take my chances with Schaffer because what else do we have?  I've seen and heard enough from him that he's not a douche.  That's a good start for me with Schaffer.

 

If someone wants to make the case Dan is 100% of the problem because he's the man on top among other things -- I agree with that from that angle and have made exactly that point before in exactly that way.  But I hate the narrative that Bruce is just some innocent dupe corrupted by Dan's web because that's not the picture painted by both local or national guys -- I am not giving Bruce an out and I think the dude is poison in his own right.   As I've said many times before BOTH of those dudes are problem.  And you want to at least try to take part of that duo out.  I'd love to take both of them out but alas we can't.

 

i don't think its just some odd coincidence that Bruce is painted the least trustworthy GM in the league by agents.  I don't think its a coincidence that Bruce was called the Prince of Darkness in Tampa or that Mike Lomabardi who worked with Bruce said in Oakland said Bruce thought he was smarter than agents, he tried to fool them and they got the last laugh.  I don't think its a coincidence that both Scot and Kirk's camp singled out Bruce specifically as their problem.   I don't think its a coincidence that he comes off like a douche and incompetent in his own public appearances and like his boss is now afraid to face the music publicly.

 

Knock Bruce out and at least we'd have a fighting chance that Dan isn't hanging out with someone who perfectly reflect his own crap.  And yeah for those who feel otherwise, sorry I absolutely think Bruce is a villain in his own right with or without Dan.   Schaffer from all accounts I've heard is a nice guy, a people guy, and smart. 

 

Is it possible it doesn't work with him or Kyle or Schaffer?  Sure.  I've said so many times, its my hail mary hope as for getting lucky.  But its clear as bell it isn't working with Bruce.

[skinsmania123]

13 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Jay isn’t chummy with Bruce and Dan. The problem is that it’s a requirement for survival in Ashburn.  No coach or executive for that matter stands a chance here if they don’t play the game.  That’s not being dramatic, that’s the cold hard truth.

Which is why bringing in Scot was a nightmare waiting fo happen.

I don't think it is a requirement.  I don't think it is a requirement for anyone with a semblance of integrity to go along with what we are seeing and hearing coming out of the Skins FO and the horrible personnel decisions being made.   if you are the HC you know you have to work with the actual team assembled.   Unless you are contributing in some manner.  I don't know if Jay truly stands for anything. He is the polar opposite of his older brother, Jon, as an example.  Of course Jay hangs out with Bruce and Danny.  Right.  They are chummy. You are right we all agree on that.  And he and Bruce get together maybe over a few Coor's Lights and lament their bad fortune /bad luck and the woe be us and our IR.  And dream about what will be "next year" like they did last year.

 

None of their decisions regarding players is viewed through the lens of injury history, **** conditioning and practice habits right.   I have always believed you make your own luck, if that is what you want to call it, through your own decisions.  You could even envision Bruce saying, "poor Jay" to Danny which also takes him off the hook.  Jay IMO does not make waves.  Jay goes along to get along.  It is not the Ashburn way.  It is the Jay way and that character aspect existed way before he came to Ashburn and it is why he is still here.  Anyone that questions the fragility, also known as Bruce's ego, has been out on their ass.   

 

I was on the fence with Jay until I saw how this year unfolded.  

 

And as an aside, which is part Jay, as the HC, I came, over time to realize what I perceived as the development of Kirk C as NOT coming from Jay, the "QB Whisperer".  Jay IMO is deficient as a coach who was initially billed, as I read in the press as a coach who could develop a QB.  Nah.  With RGMess Scot had his back, and he let Scot fight for it.  Jay had his "system" that he simply could not deviate from.  Without Scot's backing there or he would have been a lame duck.  Let Scot be the lame duck....LOL!  That was a "survival" move early on his tenure.  I think he read that situation well.  The growth of Cousin's game came because of McVay.  Proof?  Success leaves as many clues as failure.  Look what McVay did for Goff in one freaking year.  Jeff Fisher did nothing with Goff.  He was starting to look a bit like a bust.  But McVay comes along, builds on Goff's strengths not forcing him into some preconceived "system."   The reason Nick Foles, as another example, who really has had his career resurrected, and has been successful, when it counts s because his coach, Peterson, knew/knows how to play to his strengths, not forcing him into a system, that say works better for Wentz.   Foles failed miserably under Fisher as well.  Good coaches, that work with QB's, design a system that works for them.  Not the other way around.  Jay needs his QB to jell to his system.   Hence why you have JJ and McCoy back there.

 

 

 

Jay needs to go.  And Bruce needs to go.  It is not going to happen.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Scot told me the one time I met with him that Jay and him have had their bouts about personnel and it could get heated but in the end they respected each other and worked things out.  Scot saying Jay was a great dude.

 

Russell said Bruce and Jay butted headed over FA last year.

 

Doubting Jay is just some weak pushover.  But he's not in charge of personnel.   And I can't think of too many people who do make waves at Redskins Park.  I'd presume you got to go along to get along to survive at least to a degree.

 

I've said on the Jay thread many times I like Bruce Arians a lot and I'd love to see him here.  But I don't want to see it happen because the dude would be one and done.  Judging by some posts am reading of late, sounds like some do want to see a coach who will tell the powers that be off and would go take this job and shove it.

 

If so I don't think the pool is that big.  These days the typical HC is getting give or take 3-5 year contracts so you would need a dude who would be willing to walk away from 10 million plus to make a point let alone screw all the assistant coaches you brought along with you who would likely be upset that you couldn't control your emotions to save their livelihood so good luck getting those same people back if they have other offers.

 

I could see a Parcells type doing it.  Maybe.  You need a an emotionally volatile dude to be the next HC.  Most would take the money.  I hate Dan-Bruce but I'd likely suck up for a couple of years for 10 million plus.

[skinsmania123]

27 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

The more I think about it, the more I realize firing Bruce does nothing. We still have an idiot up top who gets to interview and look for his next bestest drinking bud

That is right. Typically when the "shuttle" goes down, or there is this level of organizational failure you fire the person at the top.  And the Skin's are an organizational failure in free fall,  but in the NFL, just like with supreme court judges, for the most part they are untouchable.   And while our biggest issue is really frat boy Danny, fist pumping in his delusional haze after a mirage win,  he is not going anywhere.  And neither is his tool, puppet in chief Bruce or Bruce's yes man, Jay.  And that is just the way it is going to be UNTIL he gets hit so hard in the wallet change is forced.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

12 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

And that is just the way it is going to be UNTIL he gets hit so hard in the wallet change is forced.

 

I'll be very curious to see that when it happens. FedEx has been a ghost town, interest in this team is dropping at a geometric rate. The thing with the NFL, it is a golden goose investment. Revenue sharing from massive TV deals, merchandise,  etc insulates morons like Snyder from themselves.

[skinsmania123]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I'll be very curious to see that when it happens. FedEx has been a ghost town, interest in this team is dropping at a geometric rate. The thing with the NFL, it is a golden goose investment. Revenue sharing from massive TV deals, merchandise,  etc insulates morons like Snyder from themselves.

I know. But eventually, it seems to me,  the rest of the owners have to get somewhat tired of carrying Dan's sorry ass.  And the overall decline in people watching the NFL on linear T.V. surely affects their income .  Could it factor in?  I think possibly so.  I think the decline in T.V.ratings, when it comes to the NFL is due to the shift to broadband devices and instant access.  And this has been going on for 10 years.  So it has to have an effect on an owners revenue as the trend continues.

 

You know what really concerns me most?  Is how Danny is so completely out of touch with the media and fan base.  That WP article posted earlier today on the foundational cracks within this organization.   He really seems perplexed by that?  

 

So here is a guy who is apparently so myopic, operating from within such a bubble of narcissism, a guy who from the beginning of his tenure as an owner, who has bypassed every single tried and true formula, even those historically used in the Skin's organization to succeed.   And he is perplexed?  And yet he has had abysmal results and has refused to change course.  As an owner, who is really a fan boy, he has made player decisions himself, as we know,  or he has placed ass holes like Bruce into that position.   It is like a couple of dudes playing Fantasy football with an actual NFL team over a couple of Coor's lights. 

 

 

 

 

[profusion]

In the end, the problem seems to be that Snyder has no eye for managerial talent. He gets taken in by quick talkers like Cerrato and Allen. The corollary of this is that Snyder doesn't recognize his own weaknesses. 

 

I don't know how that gets fixed, unless the league can intervene behind the scenes. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I don't disagree.

 

I guess my feeling is that if someone is willing to 'play the game' for a prolonged period of time, in this case say 5 years, by definition/default they make themselves part of the core issue.

I can’t argue that.  I’ll just say that it should come as no surprise to anyone when this cycle continues to repeat itself.  In summary, there is no head coach available to Washington capable of managing this circus and taking their career on an upward trend.  That is until Dan either sells the team or actually hires someone legitimate to replace Bruce and stays out of the way.  I wouldn’t hold my breath on that.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, profusion said:

In the end, the problem seems to be that Snyder has no eye for managerial talent. He gets taken in by quick talkers like Cerrato and Allen. The corollary of this is that Snyder doesn't recognize his own weaknesses. 

 

I don't know how that gets fixed, unless the league can intervene behind the scenes. 

 

That's Russell's narrative.  I think its deeper than that - Dan from the narratives I've heard is still a douche, still impatient and still interferes sometimes.  But listening to the stories that are told about Bruce here and in his previous employment, he is far I think from some innocent dupe in all of this -- he's a big part of the dysfunction.   

 

Having Bruce as Dan's right hand man IMO and just about everyone who covers the team is a big problem.  Does changing that dynamic end up being a game changer with Dan -- you got me -- but its the only fighting chance we got.  I do think the fact that Schaffer or Kyle Smith weren't known as the Prince of Darkness at their previous employment like Bruce was is a plus.  By most reports Schaffer and Kyle are good guys.  

 

To some apparently they see this point as me defending Dan which is absurd considering i've probably put as much and probably more material on this board that makes Dan look bad as anyone including digging up old stuff that some didn't know like his man crush about Brady Quinn among other things.  And call him every time I can a douche, incompetent and the worst owner in the NFL.   

 

But Bruce being some innocent dupe in Dan's web for me to buy into that I'd have to think a lot of people who cover this team is wrong, ditto people who covered or worked with Bruce in the past and Id also have to rethink what I've seen with my own eyes when Bruce speaks publicly. 

 

To say it simply:

 

A. Dan bad

B. Bruce bad.

 

I'd like to change it to:

 

A. Dan bad

B. Next Gm is good

 

And maybe some of the good will balance out the bad or maybe it won't.  But what other shot or hope do we have?

[Burgold]

Right. We wouldn't be hearing all this buzz about agent's, GM's and players all not trusting Bruce Allen and him being both deceitful and underprepared if Bruce was a good front office guy. Bruce brings his own baggage and quite a bit of it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I wonder if #FireBruceAllen gets mentioned on pregame shows or the broadcast today.

 

It's been pretty much blowing up the Redskins Twitter, I'd have to think the networks know it could be some red meat...

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

This tweet brought to you by #ILoveFirstDownRunsForNoYards

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Having Bruce as Dan's right hand man IMO and just about everyone who covers the team is a big problem.  Does changing that dynamic end up being a game changer with Dan -- you got me -- but its the ony fighting chance we got.  I do think the fact that Schaffer or Kyle Smith weren't known as the Prince of Darkness at their previous employment like Bruce was is a plus.  By most reports Schaffer and Kyle are good guys. 

 

This is kinda where I am right now. You and i have quarreled in the past about Bruce and his positive /negative impact on Dan. I've largely tried to ignore the prince of darkness stuff or the ego stuff, but it's getting almost impossible at this point. And let's be real, it'd be different if Bruce had worked in Seattle or New England or Pitt or GB but he worked in Oakland under Al Davis, who was one of the most egotistical owners in the league and ran a front office that was in shambles for years. I gave Bruce credit for giving that front office stability but I'm probably giving him too much credit and mis-defining stability. 

 

Fast forward to here and i said the fans thing, that Bruce kept Dan out of stuff regarding football and changed our philosophy. I think those statements are true to an extent. We are more draft focused and less interested in big names that Snyder can cozy up to like CP, but every year they're part of a dysfunctional chaotic controversy that could have easily been avoided. 

 

But the thing is that if Dan really cared, if he really didn't want the negative attention, he'd step in and say no to Bruce. Like with firing Scot, with the Shanny stuff, with RG3, with the 4th round qb, with Foster, with the hiring of outside people, with the firing of those same people. 

 

Normally i have something i can grasp onto for hope and say that's my motivation going forward but i see nothing. Not the young players, not the draft philosophy, not Kyle, not Doug, not Schaefer, not a new DC, heck not even a winning season or a playoff run because as other posters have kinda implied or said, it's like there's something bad that's rooted so deep into Redskins Park that its like it's in the water. Injuries, bad calls, soft practices, players challenging coaches, free agents not buying in, draft picks not developing, beefs in the locker room, etc. 

 

I can still get excited about individual players like Johnson or Allen so there's that but that's like a sip of coffee when what i need is to fill my 32oz mug up.