The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[skinfan2k]

I figured Bruce was here to get a RFK deal.  there is no reason otherwise. Dan is a fanboy trying to recreate his "childhood" memories of RFK.  This guy paid millions to trump and other republicans to slip in a bill to get federal funding for a stadium in DC.  he's a con artist.  

[RemoveSnyder]

21 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said:

The two things that I hope for is that Bezos comes to Washington and makes an offer too good for Snyder to ignore or that Snyder gets caught with his pants down with one of his cheerleaders and Tanya ends up with the team after a divorce. 

 

Or a combination of the two. First the pants, then the big money takeover. I like the way you think.

But, Ice cream. You got to add ice cream somewhere in there. Like, a cheerleader made entirely of ice cream, Snyder would not be able to resist. 

 

But follow me on this one, Musk instead of Bezos. I understand amazon is coming to town, I know that Big B owns the wapo, but Musk is enough of an eccentric goof that I could foreseen a day where he and I are smoking weed together and discussing the upcoming draft. Don't take away my dream. 

[Riggo#44]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Funny you say that, it wasn’t that long ago a thread was created about the Browns, and some folks here lost their mind at the thought they would surpass us.  Yet here we are.

 

Take a look at their roster:

 

Baker Mayfield, 64.6% comp, 24TDs/11 INTs as a rookie.

Nick Chubb, 972 yrds, 5.3 YPC

 

They have 2 players on offense over 30.

 

Their defense is lead by 23 yr old Myles Garrett, 12.5 sacks. Jabrill Peppers, Denzel Ward... No one on their defense is over 30.

 

Oh. And their draft is lead by Scot McCloughan. They stole Alonzo Highsmith from the Packers. They have an incredible FO

[Skinsinparadise]

The only positive take I get from people's sources covering the team is this. And this is mainly from Paulsen, Russell, Galdi, Sheehan...

 

The narrative that some have including some reporters have is that removing Allen just addresses the symptoms but not the disease which is Dan.

 

But some with sources to them team say asking around they learned Dan isn't really messing with the team, telling Kyle who you draft or Santos who to sign. He has backed off on that count. Paulsen on particular said he pushed the point with multiple people he knows in the FO and he gets this as the rap.

 

And their sources tell them that Bruce is the big problem in the backroom not so much Dan. And this is not driven by Bruce doing Dan's bidding but Bruce making his own power hungry moves.

 

None of this is to defend Dan. He stinks as an NFL owner and even running with this narrative it paints a picture that Dan does not understand leadership and building a winning culture.

 

The picture painted about Dan is he is socially awkward and Bruce is his social crutch and buddy. Its nauseating to me.

 

But I am holding to the idea that getting rid of Bruce isn't just dealing with the symptom, it seems like the dude is a major part of the disease and far from Dan's lackey.

 

I think we got a fighting chance if Dan's new best buddy is Kyle Smith or Schaffer. Maybe not so. But it's my one hope.

[desertbeagle85]

43 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Take a look at their roster:

 

Baker Mayfield, 64.6% comp, 24TDs/11 INTs as a rookie.

Nick Chubb, 972 yrds, 5.3 YPC

 

They have 2 players on offense over 30.

 

Their defense is lead by 23 yr old Myles Garrett, 12.5 sacks. Jabrill Peppers, Denzel Ward... No one on their defense is over 30.

 

Oh. And their draft is lead by Scot McCloughan. They stole Alonzo Highsmith from the Packers. They have an incredible FO

 

Just proves the point that Dan Snyder is the problem. Doesn't matter who he brings in they always fail because Snyder is a damn bum. 

[Redskin4ever]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The only positive take I get from people's sources covering the team is this. And this is mainly from Paulsen, Russell, Galdi, Sheehan...

 

The narrative that some have including some reporters have is that removing Allen just addresses the symptoms but not the disease which is Dan.

 

But some with sources to them team say asking around they learned Dan isn't really messing with the team, telling Kyle who you draft or Santos who to sign. He has backed off on that count. Paulsen on particular said he pushed the point with multiple people he knows in the FO and he gets this as the rap.

 

And their sources tell them that Bruce is the big problem in the backroom not so much Dan. And this is not driven by Bruce doing Dan's bidding but Bruce making his own power hungry moves.

 

None of this is to defend Dan. He stinks as an NFL owner and even running with this narrative it paints a picture that Dan does not understand leadership and building a winning culture.

 

The picture painted about Dan is he is socially awkward and Bruce is his social crutch and buddy. Its nauseating to me.

 

But I am holding to the idea that getting rid of Bruce isn't just dealing with the symptom, it seems like the dude is a major part of the disease and far from Dan's lackey.

 

I think we got a fighting chance if Dan's new best buddy is Kyle Smith or Schaffer. Maybe not so. But it's my one hope.

 

I’m with you on that as being the only hope. But I look at it like this. If someone is on heroin and they see it’s a problem so they stop doing heroin, but then replace it with crystal meth, they didn’t really fix their problem. They just replaced one problem with another problem. Sure they feel good about kicking a destructive habit, but they just get another one instead. That is the fear I have and many others as well. Dan might see the problems of Bruce, but I don’t think any of us believe he’s s good enough leader to pick the right next guy. He will just go and pick a new bad habit and continue the cycle of destruction. 

[dyst]

So is Dan really that blind, that even if he is more hand off in recent years... that he can’t see how pathetic this team and the guy supposedly running it (Bruce Allen) is? We are in more trouble than I thought.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The picture painted about Dan is he is socially awkward

I don’t understand...

[Redskin4ever]

27 minutes ago, dyst said:

So is Dan really that blind, that even if he is more hand off in recent years... that he can’t see how pathetic this team and the guy supposedly running it (Bruce Allen) is? We are in more trouble than I thought.

 

If these stories are true, and they seem pretty believable, then yes he is. He is getting his information from Allen who is fluffing him every day. Then blaming person x for all the bad stuff. Then telling him the Washington Post is just out to get him because he revoked their tickets years ago when they were scalping. So if the only bad news you hear is from a source that has a bone to pick, you will ignore it. When your lackey convinces you the team is close to winning and you have a bunch of injuries, you believe you are close despite the fact the guy telling you this built the team like a house of cards. When you hire a guy to turn ticket sales around and ticket sales plummet, you and your lackey blame that guy instead of realizing the true problem which is putting a poor product on the field year after year. But remember, Bruce just tells him it's bad luck they got hurt. 

 

Snyder is that blind and he doesn't want to hire someone who will tell him the truth so he can see. These marketing guys probably told him the truth and he didn't like it. And his fluffer was telling him otherwise, so that he can continue to be blind. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A. The Reuben Foster signing seemed to be the lead dance for the dysfunction according to multiple reporters for different reasons.  It angered the MLBs and caused some angst with Mason and Zach.  It angered apparently Lafemina and his angst -- angered Bruce/Dan back.  Jay was the main person of course who had to address the issue in the media.  WP said the signing was Bruce's baby.

That's partially on Jay.  If he didn't want Foster, he has to say so. Even if it's Bruce's idea, Jay is the head coach.  He said he was on board with it.  The reporting came out that while there were members of the coaching staff who were not on board with it, the three people who mattered, Bruce, Dan and Jay were all for it. If he was on board, he's at least partially responsible.

 

If he went to Bruce and Dan and said, "This is a massive mistake, I can't put my name to it.  If you want to do it, fine, however I'm going to just say it's an organization decision that was made above my head" then fine, he gets excused.

 

However he didn't do that.  As I keep saying, he has the power to make that statement internally.  Bruce isn't going to fire Jay over that. It's not insubordination.  Jay has a voice in this, and he is partially responsible for the Foster signing. 

 

He's a 5 year Head Coach with 2 more years on his contract.  He could have stopped this, or at least distanced himself from hit if he wanted to.  He didn't, therefore part of it goes on his room bill. 

 

Quote

 

B. Norman calling out the fans.  That spilled into a Lafemina and Bruce spat behind the scenes according to multiple sources

As I mentioned, and as Sheehan and others have mentioned, Jay has cultivated an atmosphere amoungst the players where they feel empowered to spout off at any time because there will be no repercussions.  That's on Jay.  FINALLY they did something about it with DJ.  That's been 4 years in the making. 

 

Jay has never instilled any discipline or accountability, and so players spout off all the time.  He should have nipped this in the bud years ago when Baker was sounding off against Barry (granted, again, like DJ, Baker was probably right because Barry was a horrific DC), but Jay allowed the sniping to go on all all season, then they just decided to move on. 

 

The fact a lot of this stuff happens is BECAUSE Jay runs a loose ship.  If he ran a tight ship, it wouldn't happen.  Or at least it's addressed immediately and that player is handled or no longer part of the organization. 

 

Quote

C.  The Clinton-Dix trade and some saying that's Bruce dictating Jay's playing time from above in spite of Dix's struggles -- with this being a common thing that spilled to other players, too.  Even though Nicholson might have been a better player?  Nicholson maybe acts out via that incident -- or who knows

 

I've said this numerous times before.  If Bruce is telling Jay to play Clinton and he acquiesces, that's 100% on Jay.  The trade was roundly praised when it happened.  Jay is the head coach, and part of his job description is to play the players he thinks are best.  He's going to get judged on results, and you can't have the FO telling you who to play.

 

It's as simple as that.  If Bruce was trying to interfere, you just say, "I have to win ball games, that's more important, and I think this is the better way."  Bruce can't actually call plays and tell players to be on the field, so you do what you think is right.  If you win and Nicholson or Everette play well, then there really isn't a problem.  If they don't play well, that's different.

 

Btw, I don't think this is a first week after trade thing.  i think it's a several weeks after trade thing after trying to work Haha in, and seeing it not working, you transition back to more of a split of playing time.

 

Regardless, if Jay can't play the players he wants because he just caves to Bruce, that says as much about Jay as it does about Bruce. 

 

Quote

D.  As for the rest?  According to Sheehan there is a lot more going on in the front office than what's been told hence the media including him aren't giving Bruce a break because they could be much harsher

I only know what I know.  I listed 9 things this year which caused a circus.  By my count, Jay was maybe a victim in 2 of them, the Monte arrest and the Lafamina stuff.

 

All the rest?  As Head Coach, he's part of those decisions and problems.  No a helpless victim. 

 

 

EDIT: let me be clear about 1 thing: Bruce is the bigger problem of the two.  And he needs to go first. 

 

I'm just not in the business of letting Jay off the hook and piling ALL of the responsibility on Bruce, saying that he is the ONLY reason for the dysfunction.  It's a team effort to be this dysfunctional.  And Jay is part of that team. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Redskin4ever said:

 

I’m with you on that as being the only hope. But I look at it like this. If someone is on heroin and they see it’s a problem so they stop doing heroin, but then replace it with crystal meth, they didn’t really fix their problem. They just replaced one problem with another problem. Sure they feel good about kicking a destructive habit, but they just get another one instead. That is the fear I have and many others as well. Dan might see the problems of Bruce, but I don’t think any of us believe he’s s good enough leader to pick the right next guy. He will just go and pick a new bad habit and continue the cycle of destruction. 

 

 

The way I see this picking from different sources and using a similar analogy to yours.

 

A.  Dan was an alcoholic who would drink 10 beers a day.  Vinny would mostly just bring him the beer and do Dan's bidding and add his occasion mishap moves too. 

 

Now it seems (if some of these narratives are true but there are bunch of them that point to this direction so I buy it for the moment.

 

B. Dan tells people he's a recovering an alcoholic.  He overplays it because the reality is he hasn't quit the sauce completely.  He's now a 4 beer a day guy.   He indeed lets Bruce mostly rule the roost unlike what he did with Cerrato.  Bruce himself is a 10 beer a day power hungry dude who is more competent than Dan but not by much and is equally as a big of a douche. 

 

Dan now goes to people, hey you wanted me out of the way, and you got it.  And you still aren't happy?  My conversation with Lafemina delved into that topic a little but again he was very careful with me but it wasn't hard for me to pick up on that same vibe which is fans don't want Dan involved, you got that, so now what?  I do think there is some truth to that.  But with some nuance which is I think he is on occasion still involved. 

 

My argument with some of my fellow Dan-Bruce critics is that I while I agree that Dan still is involved at times and I'd bet sometimes Bruce is indeed doing Dan's bidding -- but I don't buy that its the primary narrative behind the scenes.  And its not because obviously I know anything first hand but there are too many people singing that same tune which is Bruce is the big douche behind the scenes causing havoc.  Dan is far from innocent in this but if anything he's the Robin these days.   

 

There are people who have been around the team forever who has seen Dan at his worst that think that Bruce has to be Dan's stooge because that makes sense to them.  And I get the logic behind it because that was the case with Vinny.  But the people who cover the team in recent years paint a very different picture than that.

 

Some see whenever i make this point as some sort of defense of Dan but to me its far from it.  I personally think its even more pathetic if the narrative is Dan has really gotten somewhat better and is letting Bruce do his thing and doesn't get why fans are still upset.  But just like I told Lafemina, me as a fan isn't looking for Dan to get out of the way so he can hire a mini version of himself to wreck the team.  And to me Dan sets the culture in his hirings so in the scheme of things its ALL on him.

 

As for Dan, I am sticking to the main problem with him these days is his social life is dictated by these dude's first (Vinny and now Bruce). As for Bruce my favorite analogy to how Dan sees Bruce remains to be this:

 

 

 

 

[skinfan2k]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Take a look at their roster:

 

Baker Mayfield, 64.6% comp, 24TDs/11 INTs as a rookie.

Nick Chubb, 972 yrds, 5.3 YPC

 

They have 2 players on offense over 30.

 

Their defense is lead by 23 yr old Myles Garrett, 12.5 sacks. Jabrill Peppers, Denzel Ward... No one on their defense is over 30.

 

Oh. And their draft is lead by Scot McCloughan. They stole Alonzo Highsmith from the Packers. They have an incredible FO

 

McCloughan didn't do jack squat.  Clearly, the coach wasn't the right fit. 

[Riggo#44]

12 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

 

McCloughan didn't do jack squat.  Clearly, the coach wasn't the right fit. 

 

Other than draft Mayfield and Chubb.

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That's partially on Jay.  If he didn't want Foster, he has to say so. Even if it's Bruce's idea, Jay is the head coach.  He said he was on board with it.  The reporting came out that while there were members of the coaching staff who were not on board with it, the three people who mattered, Bruce, Dan and Jay were all for it. If he was on board, he's at least partially responsible.

 

 

Russell's take on the tension between Bruce and Jay as to last years FA was naturally Bruce wanted something, Jay wanted something else.  Bruce won.  Now, I despise Bruce but Bruce should win considering the titles in the organization.  Bruce has last say on the roster not Jay.  It's part of my argument for years here with the FO defenders who like to play down Bruce's role because there are other smart people in that building.  To me, the dude with final say has the most power.  That's not Jay.  That's Bruce.  

 

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

However he didn't do that.  As I keep saying, he has the power to make that statement internally.  Bruce isn't going to fire Jay over that. It's not insubordination.  Jay has a voice in this, and he is partially responsible for the Foster signing. 

 

How do you know he didn't?  What makes you think he has roster final say power over Bruce?  And Foster isn't the only crazy rodeo with the FO so even if Jay was on board with the signing so what?

 

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

He's a 5 year Head Coach with 2 more years on his contract.  He could have stopped this, or at least distanced himself from hit if he wanted to.  He didn't, therefore part of it goes on his room bill. 

 

 

You got me how.  You want Jay to rat out his bosses to the media.  Or play the Shanny game and leaking stories that are easily traced back or linked to him.  Again, Jay is doing this for a living.  He's not a lifelong Redskins fan beholden to the future of the franchise.  When he leaves why would he care a rats behind what happens to the team?  Give up 10 million dollars plus and screw all the employees under him to make a point to Dan -- for what reason?

 

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

As I mentioned, and as Sheehan and others have mentioned, Jay has cultivated an atmosphere amoungst the players where they feel empowered to spout off at any time because there will be no repercussions.  That's on Jay.  FINALLY they did something about it with DJ.  That's been 4 years in the making. 

 

Sheehan also thinks Bruce is by a mile the main problem with the team.  Do you think when people think dysfunction with the Redskins its centered on Jay's loose-laid back style of coaching?

 

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Regardless, if Jay can't play the players he wants because he just caves to Bruce, that says as much about Jay as it does about Bruce. 

 

Not sure how many people would quit and walk away from 10 million plus and do the same to all the assistants working under them who depend on them.  If you want a dude who goes take this job and shove it -- granted Jay might not be that dude.  My point is finding that dude might be more elusive than you might think and I don't think that dude would survive more than one season under Bruce.

 

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

EDIT: let me be clear about 1 thing: Bruce is the bigger problem of the two.  And he needs to go first. 

 

I'm just not in the business of letting Jay off the hook and piling ALL of the responsibility on Bruce, saying that he is the ONLY reason for the dysfunction.  It's a team effort to be this dysfunctional.  And Jay is part of that team. 

 

Dysfunction and a crap power structure and coaching are two different animals.  You are linking them together.  I couldn't disagree more.  

 

I go through my bouts for example where I post like crazy about the QB position.  But in moments like this during the season, 99% of my attention is about Bruce-ownership-culture.  The coach, the players, FA the whole ball of wax is way secondary in my book.     What happens above IMO is the be all and end all.

 

Until Bruce is gone and the FO structure changes, don't care who the coach is -- Jay can stay or go, or we can hire the next big name and it wouldn't move me at all.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Bruce Allen must love VoR turning his tar and feathering into Jay’s public stoning.

 

Are there things Jay can control and isn’t so hot at? Yes.  

 

But this whole Jay should be telling everyone in Ashburn to shove it otherwise he’s a weak enabler might just be the depths of the debate.  Good luck finding the Mad Dog of head coaches that’s just going to come here and do what he wants, publicly lay claim that he’s not down with group decisions, and whatever else.  It’s like some of you have never worked for awful bosses before and carried out their BS in order to keep your job, or worse let their BS rub off on you.

 

None of that is to say that Jay is perfect or even a good coach, it’s just the long list of things you guys blame him for only weakens whatever point you’re trying to make.

 

I think I even read that we should want Jay gone so Bruce can hire his Zorn and finally get fired for it.  To quote my southern great grandmother: “what in Tarnations?”

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Skinsinparadise Look, we're not going to agree.  I refuse to allow Jay a free pass as an executive of the team.  That's about the extent of it.  He's part of the problem, nowhere near a victim, and not part of the solution.

 

Also, he's not walking away from anything.  If he was fired, they'd owe him every penny remaining on his contract, as they would owe the same to the other assistant coaches.  Dan had to pay out Shanny and Zorn.  Spurrier quit.  So that's different.  I'm not suggesting Jay quit.  I'm suggesting he grow a spine and stand up for himself if something seems wrong. 

 

He hasn't shown balls as a football coach on the field, and he certainly hasn't shown balls off the field, just sortof letting Bruce and Dan run roughshot over him. 

 

As I mentioned, his brother pretty famously told Al Davis, who was one crusty SOB, to bugger off back to the owners box so he could do his job.  It worked.  Jon built a SB worthy team. Al proved the bigger idiot in the end by trading him to Tampa, where Jon beat him in the SB. 

 

But it can be done.  Head Coaches do not just have to be dictated too all the time.  And when they don't agree with something, they don't have to defend it to the media.  If Jay didn't really want Foster, he simply tells Bruce, "Fine.  You do it.  But I can't defend it publicly.  I won't criticize it, but I won't support it."  Then when he gets the question, he says, "Guys, I'm preparing for the Eagles. This was a front office move that won't effect this year, you're going to have to talk to Bruce and Doug. If Rueben is ever cleared to play, then I'll address him as a player on the team."  

 

By doing what he did, he took partial ownership of the whole mess. It is what it is.

 

I enjoy these back and forths, but I think we've probably got to a point where there will be no agreement.  I see Jay as a part of the problem, along with Bruce and Dan, both for the fact he's an enabler to the dysfunction and a crappy football coach, you see him as an adequate coach and a victim of the dysfunction.  There's nothing you're going to tell me that will change my mind, and nothing I will tell you that is going to change yours. And I think we both listen to just about all the same reporting (though I admit I don't listen to 106.7, I do hear about the reporting from Russell and others) so we have a lot of the same information, we just interpret it differently.  Which is completely fair.

 

So with that, I wish you a happy holidays and happy new years.  Hopefully in 4 days we'll have the change you and I both want, (Bruce gone) and can cheers to that. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

So with that, I wish you a happy holidays and happy new years.  Hopefully in 4 days we'll have the change you and I both want, (Bruce gone) and can cheers to that. 

 

 

I'll just leave it on this note, if Jay is such a problem and they are underachieving -- don't get why we'd need to remove Bruce because I gather he must have done his part to make it work if Jay isn't getting the most out of the talent given to him?

 

 But anyway, thanks, Happy Holidays-New Years to you.   Hopefully change is coming next week.  Doubting it though.  Will see.  Cheers.  😀

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Bruce Allen must love VoR turning his tar and feathering into everything being Jay’s public stoning.

Maybe I go to far, but my overall point is that both Bruce AND Jay are at fault.  The real fault, of course, lies with the owner for allowing all this crap to happen.  But all three are at fault. Dan's not going anywhere unless somebody wants to pay him 5 Billion for the team, so my point is basically you can't just excuse Jay because Bruce is a Machiavellian monster.

 

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

But this whole Jay should be telling everyone in Ashburn to shove it otherwise he’s a weak enabler might just be the depths of the debate.  Good luck finding the Mad Dog of head coaches that’s just going to come here and do what he wants, publicly lay claim that he’s not down with group decisions, and whatever else.  It’s like some of you have never worked for awful bosses before and carried out their BS in order to keep your job, or worse let their BS rub off on you.

All I'm saying is that Jay allows this stuff to happen to him instead of distancing himself from it.  If he didn't want Foster, he had ways to not be lumped into the group that had to defend it.  You can do that politely and without causing many ruffles.  There are 2 possibilities with Foster:

 

1. He was all for it from a football perspective, and given how much it was reported he liked Foster coming out, that is a possibility.  If that's the case, he can't be excused from helping to bring that circus to town. 

 

2. He wanted no part of the circus, but couldn't find a way to extract himself from being the face of it and defending it. 

 

I personally have worked for a few crummy bosses, and you have to draw a line at what you are willing to be associated with, and what you are not.  You tow the line up to a point, but if the point comes where you know it's a bad decision, and it's going to reflect poorly on you, you have to find another way, or you get lumped into the bad decision along with your boss.  I've said to my bosses previously that I just can't support a decision, I'd be happy to help implement it, but please don't ask me to defend it.  Most of the time that goes over pretty well.  I just personally refuse to take ownership of something I find is objectionable.  Maybe that's just me. 

 

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think I even read that we should want Jay gone so Bruce can hire his Zorn and finally get fired for it.  To quote my southern great grandmother: “what in Tarnations?”

The reason Dan gave for firing Vinny is that Vinny allowed him to hire Zorn.  Let me be clear, I do not want this as an outcome, but it's possible before Dan sees the light and fires Bruce (which should have been 2 years ago), he might have to walk that same path.  Bruce might have to fail spectacularly in order for his ouster.  And 9-7, 8-7-1, 7-9, 7-9 is not going to be spectacular enough to convince Dan to get rid of Bruce. 

 

It's not something I want to happen even a little bit.  But it could take Bruce firing Jay, hiring a completely and total incompetent wretch because that's all he can hire to show Dan he's got to move on from Bruce.

 

I pray to God this isn't what happens.  However, because Dan is so reluctant to change Bruce, that's what it might take.  This comment was a reflection on Dan, not Bruce or Jay. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'll just leave it on this note, if Jay is such a problem and they are underachieving -- don't get why we'd need to remove Bruce because I gather he must have done his part to make it work if Jay isn't getting the most out of the talent given to him?

Bruce should be fired for a lot of reasons, but the biggest one is the complete screw up of the QB situation with the Kirk contract debacle and the trade for Smith.  That's a fireable offense all by itself.  Add to that the low-road politics and off-the-field stuff, it's just all bad.

 

He's a cloud that hangs over the organization.  He's awful.  I've never strayed from that point of view.

 

 

 

[dyst]

Can you imagine working in dysfunction like this. I would be so embarrassed to be part of an organization like the Redskins. Forget the fact that you are part of a losing team but just everything else only compounds it.

 

You don’t even have to go back far, just under Allen’s reign, its been an embarrassment. The way they handled the RG3 injury, their team doctor saying he was fine, the way Shanahan’s tenure ended with the leaks, Jay calling out RG3 in the media, Kirks contract, SMC and his departure...everything is always a ****show with this team.

 

As a player how can you be proud to play here. The only one who even spoke like he wanted to change the culture was Scott McCloughin, and he wasn’t even given a chance.

 

Snyder is an idiot.

[Skinsinparadise]

Chris Russell going on just now about how he has some wild stories about Bruce which he'd love to share but can't.  I'd presume because his sources didn't give him permission.  Sheehan alluded to the same on one of his podcasts.  Love to know what those stories are but as Sheehan said the media could be much tougher than they are on Bruce if they shared all they knew.  Hopefully whatever that stuff is it comes out eventually.   The way Russell and Sheehan explained their points sounds like its some juicy stuff whatever it is. 

 

Russell going on ironically about both Dan and Bruce wanting yes men in the building versus strong personalities.  Doug according to him doesn't have much power in that building and can unlikely seek greener pastures elsewhere because his reputation around the league is he's a nice guy not nothing special as a personnel guy.

 

He thinks they likely think all the people complaining don't get it considering they was just befallen by bad luck.

 

 

 

 

Edit:  headed to the Alabama-Oklahoma game shortly so might miss some good Russell nuggets and he's going to town so far today.  He's laying out there some strong hints.  Without flat out saying it, he seems to be suggesting Bruce and Dan drink a lot and that's part of the problem.   Redskins Park being more of a fraternity than a place of serious business.   

 

In fairness to Russell, he made those points without saying the names Bruce and Dan.  But it seemed clear that's who he was talking about. 

[The Sisko]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Dan, I am sticking to the main problem with him these days is his social life is dictated by these dude's first (Vinny and now Bruce). As for Bruce my favorite analogy to how Dan sees Bruce remains to be this:

 

 

 

 

Maybe we get lucky and Snyder finds his second calling in the Duckman reboot.

 

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I think I even read that we should want Jay gone so Bruce can hire his Zorn and finally get fired for it.  To quote my southern great grandmother: “what in Tarnations?”

I'd actually be on board with that. At least we'd have some hope that the suffering might be about to end. OTOH, he'd just hire another yes man bum to replace Bruce and start the cycle all over again.

[skins island connection]

 I can see how some are so down on Snyder, and I get it; he's da' man on top.

 

 But its been said that Snyder has backed off of being a Jerry Jones control freak; I have no idea if its true or not, therefore I cannot point a finger at him without absolute proof.

 

But I can point a finger { mainly the middle one } at Bruce Allen. He's the #2 person with the Washington Redskins organization.

 

It is Bruce Allen who is the voice in Snyder's ear, deflecting blame, placing blame, smoothing over any negativity and being Snyder's personal cheerleader,  and trying to take over different aspects of the organization that he has no business being involved in to begin with. He's a prototypical power-hungry egomaniac. The deeper he digs a hole for the organization, the more directions he can point fingers at, instead of himself, and the harder it will be for Snyder to see the light and reality.

 

He would be the equivalent to Eli Turnbull { David Spade } in The Coneheads; over Highmaster Mintot's shoulder, re-affirming everything the leader says, kissing butt.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, skins island connection said:

 I can see how some are so down on Snyder, and I get it; he's da' man on top.

 

 But its been said that Snyder has backed off of being a Jerry Jones control freak; I have no idea if its true or not, therefore I cannot point a finger at him without absolute proof.

 

But I can point a finger { mainly the middle one } at Bruce Allen. He's the #2 person with the Washington Redskins organization.

 

It is Bruce Allen who is the voice in Snyder's ear, deflecting blame, placing blame, smoothing over any negativity and being Snyder's personal cheerleader,  and trying to take over different aspects of the organization that he has no business being involved in to begin with. He's a prototypical power-hungry egomaniac. The deeper he digs a hole for the organization, the more directions he can point fingers at, instead of himself, and the harder it will be for Snyder to see the light and reality.

 

 

Just guessing on this piecing together narratives.  I do think Bruce has usurped Dan as being the #1 problem and Dan likely doesn't interfere as much.  But Dan remains the lead dance of the dysfunction that seems to saturate Redskins Park.

 

Chris Russell is painting a picture of a drinking laden buddy system at Redskins Park with perhaps Bruce being the lead clown and Dan enjoying hanging with him. 

 

So like Russell said I do think getting Bruce out the door cures some problems but won't cure all of them.  My hope though is if Bruce is gone Dan's next buddy doesn't bring out his worst like Bruce seems to do.

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I refuse to allow Jay a free pass as an executive of the team.  That's about the extent of it.  He's part of the problem, nowhere near a victim, and not part of the solution

 

I agree. Jay is on the inside. As time passes, he and Bruce appear to be pissing in the same pot more than initially envisaged. I think they are closer associated than many want to accept.